Who's your guitar hero?

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Who's your guitar hero?

24 Nov

Who's your guitar hero?

24, Nov, 2011 (2:08 PM)
Rolling Stone magazine has named Jimi Hendrix the greatest guitarist of all time.

Hendrix, who died from a drug overdose in 1970, edged out other rock music greats of the 60s, including Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page and Keith Richards.

Who is your favourite guitarist and why?

Disclaimer: The views expressed in these blogs are not necessarily those of National Seniors Australia. This blog is moderated and any content deemed inappropriate by the administrator will be removed, including comments that are offensive or discriminatory; libellous or defamatory; breach copyright, unless we have the owner’s permission to use it; or contain personal or commercially confidential material. Personal attacks will be deleted by the moderator. The use of this blog to broadcast overtly party-political messages is also prohibited. The moderator’s decision is final and no correspondence will be entered into. Any personal details shared here are public and can be found on internet searches.

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Comments (312)

Robyn - 1, December, 2011 (12:54)

I know a few kids who have been raised by gay parents. They are beautiful, well adjusted people. My son and his partner have been together 12 years and have a very loving and respectful union. My son would love to have children but his partner is not keen so they content themselves with their one very much loved dog. (We love him to death too - he is our granddog). It's a shame in a way because they would both be beautiful parents. One of my daughters is also gay but she is not currently in a relationship.
Robyn - 1, December, 2011 (12:34)

Kay,

Yes, our respective state governments have presented voting dilemmas over recent years. Good luck with it! I don't think we will see another Labor Govt in NSW for quite some time but I guess it depends on how well the present mob perform. We don't have a lot of voting choice do we?
Robyn - 1, December, 2011 (12:23)

I am intrigued by your statement:
"I am getting a bit tired of being made to feel that it is I who is not normal because I live in a family situation with a husband."
I do too but I don't feel that way. What causes you to feel that?
Robyn - 1, December, 2011 (12:17)

Helen,

Thanks for answering the question. My views are more aligned with Kay on this issue so I don't agree with much of what you have said. However, I respect your right to your opinion and I am very interested to know what others are thinking about gay marriage. I would argue strongly that "adjustment" and "sexual orientation" are two completely different factors. Also that there is no element of choice unless one is bi sexual and even then they are not choosing bi sexuality, rather, they have choice about whether to live in a homosexual or heterosexual relationship. We do not choose our actual orientation, we are born with it. (to continue)
Kay Kelly - 1, December, 2011 (11:31)

Helen

I hear your point of view. And clearly your views are the views of the majority of people.

I don't feel that the push for gay rights has any impact on me whatsoever. I still live the same, have the same rights etc. I just feel that if there is no real negative impact on heterosexual people by making life more enjoyable for gay people, then why not? And there are no gay people in my family that I know of, so it is not something that is very personal to me. To me it is just an equality thing.

And I don't believe there are any indicators yet that children raised in gay families are adversely effected in any way. Perhaps they grow up more tolerant of difference? I think the love and care shown to them is the most important thing.
Kay Kelly - 1, December, 2011 (11:19)

Robyn

As I have said before, our State election is next year, and I am at a loss re who to vote for! The Bligh/Beattie Labor government has been in for a long time, has done many questionable things (passing legislation to protect former Minister Gordon Nuttall who is now in gaol etc) , and wasted huge amounts of money (Traveston Dam, the desalination plant, a new children's hospital at the Mater etc).

On the other hand, as bad as Labor's environmental credentials are, they greatly surpass those of the LNP. Both parties favour CSG extraction - good royalties for the Budget). But the LNP wants to repeal the Wild Rivers legislation, even though the native title holders support the legislation. Our State seat is currently Labor, but our specific little area always votes LNP (country vote).

I suspect a huge backlash against Labor, but will have no joy in seeing this less-than-inspiring LNP being elected. Quite a dilemma!
Helen - 1, December, 2011 (11:03)

(2)Besides legally for Gays, it's all OK now so why bother to marry. If they want to have a big party, a committment or something like that, then it should be personal for those involved & not concern the rest of the world.

Being Gay is sometimes a way of thinking. For some it's just the way they are.

I am getting a bit tired of being made feel that it is I who is not normal because I live in a family situation with a husband.

Our children turned out very well adjusted & know who they are. My feeling here, Mum & Dad is still the best & it should be encouraged with the committment of marriage & not just a house swap for a while...
Helen - 1, December, 2011 (11:01)

First of all, I have no problem with Gay couples. If that's the way they are OK. I also have no problem with people living together.

I do believe that a family with "a Mum & Dad" is ideally the best way to bring up kids.

I know that people also divorce & there are one parent families for all sorts of reasons. HOWEVER, we are seeing a definite problem with boys in particular who in some circumstances are not quite sure what they are these days. We also haven't seen the affect on children with so many parents coming in & out of children's lives properly as yet. I don't think it is good. That's my opinion... Contd -
Robyn - 1, December, 2011 (10:53)

I have tended to be more of a swinging voter in our NSW state elections, having no time for our state Labor Gov't over past years. Twice I voted for our sitting National Party MP because I thought he was ethical, fair minded and a hard worker for our area. He told me he supported equal rights for Gays but when adoption rights were put to a conscience vote in Parliament he was one of the few to vote against it. I would never vote for him again.
I also dislike Julia Gillard's objection to gay marriage rights. Her stand on this issue, along with her knifing of Rudd has affected my trust in her, somewhat, on a personal level. In other ways though I think she has performed really well.
Bob B - 1, December, 2011 (10:30)

Morning all, its another lovely morning in paradise. Not for much longer though as the rain looms close - a bit closer than the predicted sometime this afternoon. Its at Beaudesert already with a strom building over Springbrook and another behind the Tweed.

Up early for some pics in 'sweet' early morning light of the poincianas in town just coming out.

Home for breakfast then cut a banana tree down with a big bunch for ripening, a swim in the pool to cool down and then a lovely cup of coffee and its just 10:30.

Will settle this afternoon after attending a local school assembly to present an art competion winners their prizes.

Wouldn't be dead for quids.
Robyn - 1, December, 2011 (10:22)

That's great news Kay and I can't agree more with everything else you have said. I also would like to know just what is the problem some people have about marriage or civil union rights for gay couples? Would anyone who does have a problem care to explain why?
Kay Kelly - 1, December, 2011 (9:23)

For once the Queensland government has done something that, in my view, is highly commendable! It has passed a Bill allowing the civil union of gay partners. The ALP allowed a conscience vote, but the LNP required a 'No' vote.

I don't understand the fairly widespread vitriolic opposition to moves to give gay people the same rights as heterosexual people. It seems to me that such moves make life better for gay people, and do nothing whatsoever to effect the lives non-gay people. What's the problem? Where's the 'good will to all men' (and women)?
Nottakeet - 1, December, 2011 (8:37)

Sue Do-Nim

I agree.

Perhaps the NSA could lobby to link old age pensions to politicians' salaries.
Kay Kelly - 1, December, 2011 (8:14)

One of the Bills that was passed in the absence of the LNP in the Qld Parliament the other day was a Bill changing our public holidays (not that the LNP's presence would have made a difference, anyway!). This Labor government has seen fit to move the Queen's Birthday holiday weekend from June to October!

The real problem we have is Easter, Anzac Day and Labour Day (early May) all happening within a few weeks. Rather than move the May Labour Day to October (thus aligning it with NSW, ACT &SA), it moved the Queen's Birthday to October, aligning Qld with WA, a far distant State! And WA only has the Queen's Birthday in October to avoid a clash with its foundation Day in June. No! It is much more important to keep an alignment of Labour Day with the communist countries - May Day! Only the NT maintains this alignment!

Crazy!! Really facilitates cross-State family get-togethers!
Sue Do-Nim - 1, December, 2011 (8:08)

Seriously, you’ve just got to shake your head, throw your hands in the air and run to the NSA Blog.

How can Federal politicians possibly justify the huge increases to their salaries ?

The whole lot of them need to realise that they represent US ,they work for US.

How can they just blurt in our faces like that?

Can someone rationally explain why the increases are so huge at a time when public sector spending and welfare is being slashed?
Nottakeet - 1, December, 2011 (8:02)

To all the NSA bloggers – many thanks for turning this week’s non-topic into the usual interesting, multi-facetted discussion complete with superannuation funded cluster bomb production.

With apologies to Rolling Stone magazine, Andrés Segovia would have to be the “greatest guitarist of all time”.

Hope he can get posthumous DLP endorsement, if he doesn’t already have it.
Kay Kelly - 1, December, 2011 (7:59)

I am very pleased that a Senate committee has attacked the Queensland government's handling of the $50 billion coal seam gas industry! Good on them! They have called for a moratorium on the industry and a ban on CSG mining on high-quality agricultural ground - fantastic!! I understand they also want it banned near the Great Artesian Basin - good!

I think this is a great move and I hope it can be enforced on the Queensland government.

I might add that the LNP here in Qld is also very supportive of the CSG industry. I hope this report brings some sanity to the LNP as well!!! Faint hope! They can't even get their act together sufficiently to make it into Parliament on time!
Robyn - 1, December, 2011 (7:57)

I am developing intense dislike for the words "mature" and "childish".
Robyn - 1, December, 2011 (7:51)

As an extension on the subject of ethical investments, people may be interested in reading (on google) an excellent essay on ethics by Dr. C. George Boeree. The question of what is right/wrong or good/bad overall cannot be easily tied down in any universal sense and is thus very subjective. I think that on these matters we all largely listen to our own heartbeat and self determine according to our priorities. In areas of glaring indecency though, such as the media carry-ons in the UK, pedophilia, animal cruelty etc, our heartbeats are fairly in tune. Where DOES our sense of right and wrong come from?
Kay Kelly - 1, December, 2011 (7:47)

Lorikeet

So Sue Do-Nim blogged rather amusingly about you and SoL! Only tongue-in-cheek, of course.

But off you go again - no sense of humour that I have seen so far - a completely unprovoked attack on poor old Sue Do-Nim! But, of course, as you wrote these words, they can't possibly be considered insulting, can they? 'Hypocrisy' is your middle name.
Helen - 1, December, 2011 (7:28)

Good morning all - Not too much on topic last night. It seems like a family brawl with the multi-coloured bird!

Maybe she plays guitar too!
Lorikeet - 1, December, 2011 (7:27)

Sue-Do-Nim:

This is a blog for mature adults. I'm not sure why you are here, other than to make a mockery of it with your teenage behaviour.
Sue Do-Nim - 30, November, 2011 (21:16)

Lori Keet:

Wait a minute…What’s going on here?

If you do indeed have a teenage son, then it’s possible he could be as young as 13 years old.

That would mean “Son of Lorikeet”, your fourth son, could be as young as 12 years old.

That is of course if the son of whom you speak is your THIRD son.

Otherwise ”Son of Lorikeet” could be even younger.

I therefore find it totally inappropriate that you are aiding and abetting a minor in falsifying his age to gain entry to this Blog.

This is an extremely serious indiscretion on your part Ms. Lorikeet and I hereby call for the MODERATOR to chastise and punish you and SOL accordingly.
Lorikeet - 30, November, 2011 (20:42)

WEG:

My teenager says the least work you can be paid for is 2 to 3 hours per week. I know the government used to consider people to be employed if they had only 1 hour per week.

I once asked a Liberal MP to change the "Work for the Dole" Scheme to "Work for Pay", but clearly no one was interested.

I observed Heather Ridout to be pushing the usual global agenda. She also refused several times to make any specific political statement, but still pushed a certain number of lies.

During the show, I also renamed her Heather Nodoubt, since I had no doubt as to her anti-worker, low-pay, slave-labour agenda.
Robyn - 30, November, 2011 (20:21)

(continued)

To be fair you will have to admit that your own comments are also often wiped. You are not a victim (as you like to make out). You goad as much as you are goaded, and perhaps more!

I am still waiting to find out who Robyn II is. It appears to be the worst insult you can give one, to say they resemble me. Obviously, your devotee WEG, who can hardly be called impartial, doesn't get these things!
Robyn - 30, November, 2011 (20:14)

My MIL has said more than once that Australian Aborigines are less than human and should all be slaughtered! I hope we get her in chains quickly if she becomes demented!

I agree with the "love in" ETS but it has been a while since the more cunning of the duo has attacked the Greens for being evil. Nevertheless, I am wary of WEG and his moralizing. Both have a propensity to stick the knife in!

Lorikeet, I do find myself feeling reactive when I read statements such as yours in your comment 29 Nov (20:56): " I have also seen articles in papers which claim that nearly all superannuation funds (union based or otherwise) are being used for Green purposes." Hence I react. Do you really think you can say these things on a blog without getting a response? The only reason I don't attempt to argue with you reasonably is because I have learned it is pointless.
ETS - 30, November, 2011 (17:26)

Lorikeet and WEG, your mutual love-in is beautiful to behold. I hope you’ll share the love with others.

As for Heather Ridout, I’ve never heard the “Copout” nickname before your message WEG. Did you make it up? In any case, Heather Ridout is the head of a national industry organisation that works with the government on a daily basis across a whole lot of different issues. Her organisation works with all parties and whoever is in government and I imagine she would also have regular contact with the Independents. It is her job to represent her members with the Government and establish a working relationship. I don’t always agree with her positions but I do respect her professionalism and competence.

Bob is right. She does call a spade a spade. She was critical of some Government policies on QandA recently but overall she seems to be credible and reasonable in her approach.

Please keep the tomatoes for your lunch.
Bob B - 30, November, 2011 (17:21)

Lorikeet

If you continue to assert that you do not talk to the NSA Moderator, I will be forced to point out your earlier statement where you said in anger you had called her about the ferels on the blog.
Bob B - 30, November, 2011 (17:05)

cont ...

Lorikeet, you may not agree with what she said but to offer her violence is not adult at all. I opine you ageed with some things she said though. My MIL said such things as you have and as dimentia set in she then carried them out - its a dangerous practise. Luckily she was isolated before any real harm was done.
Bob B - 30, November, 2011 (17:04)

I too watched the press Club address by Heather Ridout - used to be Ridout-Allen when she was married to Mike Allen.

She is one tallented lady who presents very well indeed. She calls a spade a spade and a bloody big one at that if necessary.

She said the way Australia is riding at the moment is well ahead in the Western World and that the way Australia approached the GFC was above everybody else.

She supports what she believes in irrespective of the party in power; a fact you readily discern if you have observed her over the years.

cont......
WEG - 30, November, 2011 (16:59)

Heather Ridout – nickname ‘Copout’, head of Aust Industry Group, is like a leopard – she changed her spots. She piled heaps on the Lib’s Work Choice / IR legislation and was in bed with Labor.

Her members are now experiencing the problems with ‘Fair’ Work Aust Legislation (union wage demands etc), and she’s changed her allegiances like the wind. People get splinters if they sit on the fence, but she’s jump with one big leap to the other side.

Whether she’s right, I’ll leave it up to you.

Save your tomatoes.

On your other point – what’s the definition of employment – 3 hrs per week, working for the dole?
Lorikeet - 30, November, 2011 (16:50)

WEG:

Yes, you always seem to know what you're doing, but my concern is for the younger people and those who are less able to assert their consumer rights (disabled, very elderly).

Eventually these issues will affect everyone.

If we were being told the truth by Labor's minions at the NPC, why would Foodbanks now be feeding 100,000 people every week in SE Qld alone?

Heather Ridout also said (twice) that unemployment sits at 5%, when we all know it is twice that figure, along with the real rate of inflation.

MINING TAX

http://www.openaustralia.org/senate/?gid=2011-11-22.94.1
WEG - 30, November, 2011 (16:39)

Lorikeet - I believe you.
In relation to your other point, I’ve always requested a receipt as I tick off all purchases on my Cr Cd each month, and online if need be during the billing period. This assures me I have legitimate entries. I’m cautious as I’ve been done over previously (entries reversed by WESTPAC) and with no personal loss.
Lorikeet - 30, November, 2011 (16:30)

For those who never get the message, I don't contact the moderator at all. She deletes your offensive comments for excellent reasons.
Lorikeet - 30, November, 2011 (16:29)

Today I saw Heather Ridout speak at the National Press Club about manufacturing, pay rates and workers' rights. She was fresh from a meeting with the PM.

She said workers' pay was too high and productivity too low. She also commented on our low foreign debt. Plenty of men in the audience seemed to be giving her the evil eye.

By the time she was finished, I felt like throwing a rotten tomato at her for pushing the PM's global agenda, instead of the facts.
Lorikeet - 30, November, 2011 (16:25)

Having shopped at Woolworths in the Brisbane CBD again on Monday, and having been asked yet again if I required a receipt, I told the young shop assistant not to ask anyone that question, but to simply put the receipt in the bag.

He said the computer is programmed to get him to ask if a receipt is required. I said that under the law, the customer is entitled to a receipt for proof of purchase, to keep track of their financial accounts, and in order to return substandard goods under the Trade Practices Act.

Westpac ATMs also ask us if we want a receipt or an on-screen balance. As we know, the PayPass and PayWave cards are designed to take away both people's jobs and their consumer rights.

I think it is unethical for the government to allow bankers and other traders to do these things.
Laurakeet - 30, November, 2011 (14:53)

ETS, WEG and Kay, good points on ethical investments. It is hard to know where to draw the line on what is ethical. It will mean different things to different people. Also worth noting “unethical” is not “illegal”.

For example, most people would regard cigarette production as an unethical product because of the health risks from smoking. Not illegal, yet unethical. Regardless of any good the tobacco companies do in the community, the bottom line is they make money from selling a product that undermines human health.

But are the big supermarkets unethical? Their products mostly are OK (cigarettes apart) but they are gradually phasing out small competitors and the growing use of store brands is undermining suppliers. Are they unethical practices or just sound business strategies to maximise profits? Not illegal, but I would say the ethics are questionable.

Poker machines are another example. Is it ethical for clubs to profit from problem gamblers?

All value judgements.
Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (12:22)

ETS: You have made some excellent points about ethical investment. I concur.

WEG, ETS: Re who starts the slanging matches: on reviewing the blogs, I concede I may have over-reacted (19:41 29/11) to Lorikeet's rather extravagant comment (18:26 29/11)about QSuper funds "being used to make cluster bombs". Although it sounded an extreme comment (Lorikeet is famous for those), it probably does have a germ of truth if one believes that many big companies include munitions amongst their products. So in relation to her come-back at me, on this occasion, I may have 'cast the first stone'. But earlier blogs show Lorikeet mixing it up with other bloggers.
ETS - 30, November, 2011 (11:35)

The question of whether Lorikeet initiates or responds to abuse has been discussed before. Pointless going into it again because she does not acknowledge any comment that differs from her worldview and runs whinging to the Moderator when people disagree with her.

The ethical investment question is far more interesting. I may diverge from other Greens by saying that mining is essential and in general is not an unethical investment. Ethics should be as much about management philosophy, relations with stakeholders (eg, customers, communities, shareholders, government) and social commitments as it is about product.

Kay is right that it is a subjective subject but there are some standouts that few would justify. The UK media inquiry is gathering clear evidence of unethical behaviour which seems to permeate sections of the UK media (but don’t tar the whole industry with the one brush). No evidence that the same is true in Australia.
Bob B - 30, November, 2011 (11:19)

No qualms there Parakeet.

The incident in question was before your time but was, by the passage of time, showing some incite.
Parakeet - 30, November, 2011 (11:10)

I haven't been here much lately (but I HAVE been watching).
Those with coloured feathers in guilded cages shouldn't throw stones. What's wrong with being a Parakeet anyway (I think I'm kinda cute), lovable & def not aggressive. Peace everyone. I spied an orchid, fruit for lunch yumm
Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (10:58)

Yes, WEG, 'ethical investing' is a huge topic. But a lot of the discussion would be very subjective, based on different people's different belief systems. And yes, that was one issue that came up in the focus group meeting I went to - some people consider coal mining, coal-fired power stations, uranium mining and nuclear power all in the 'unethical' category. I don't agree. But I can see how difficult, well nigh impossible, it is to satisfy would-be superannuation investors that their funds are invested 'ethically'. I apply my own view of 'ethical' in the direct shares I own, but in superannuation - who knows?
WEG - 30, November, 2011 (10:42)

The point raised by Lorikeet 25 plus entries ago was linked to ‘ethical investment strategy’ of Public / Corporate concerns.

There is a plethora of information on the internet. The debate that followed was good but I can’t understand why we got onto the dirt track again – it was not warranted in my opinion.

‘Ethical Investing’ is a blog topic on it’s own. I guess we also need to be careful in identifying ‘culprits’.
Remember the GREENS would have the coal Industry investments classed as unethical!
Bob B - 30, November, 2011 (10:41)

Lorikeet

Just to keep the record straight and factual you may recall that not long after I started participating in this blog I accidentally called you Parakeet. There was no abuse in even that slight slip but I copped a bag full from you. So there you have it: my first slip and with no abuse whatsoever involved caused a reaction nearly nuclear. I wondered what in the hell I had done to bring the earth so close to doom.

Selective 'hearing' at work?
Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (10:15)

Lorikeet

You have a very one-eyed view of abuse!

And you apparently can't answer my questions. Whatever!
Lorikeet - 30, November, 2011 (10:06)

Remember this: I don't run to the moderator via telephone or email. I respond to others AFTER I have been abused, and even then I am far more polite than a list of people on this blog.

The Moderator deletes whatever she thinks is abusive, so all we need to do is look at exactly WHO is doing the whinging.

Robyn cannot remember who Robyn II is.

I doubt if there is even one completely ethical organisation around, so what Bob B. is saying where superannuation funds are concerned definitely seems to have merit.
Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (8:22)

Bob B.

I am sure you are right about the munitions production and trade being widespread. Makes sense although clearly I don't have your inside knowledge. This whole question of 'ethical investing' is a slippery slope! And impossible to pin down! A very subjective judgement, in any case.
helen - 30, November, 2011 (8:08)

Oh dear! "L Terrific" is at it again. Let's face it, where she is there is nobody to argue with her.

The majority of opinion rules anyway & we must be able to disagree & debate without someone always running to "Mummy Moderator"!

Next topic coming up. See what we can do with that!...
Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (8:05)

Sue Do-Nim

Love the Einstein quote! At her age, no wonder Lorikeet is an NSA member!

Re Moderator - the only reason I complain to the Moderator (on the blog) is about the ridiculous, uncalled-for deletions!
Bob B - 30, November, 2011 (8:04)

With the hugh 'rationalisation' that went on with large US aircraft and other companies, there is hardly any, if any, who are not into munitions of some sort. Thats a fact of life. So for the few who are concerned about this happy hunting for the 'ethical' companies and the means to ethically invest that way.

Heve dealt with that business for many years in my working life many nasties they produce are not readily discernable to the novice.

Who is going to claim not to be a novice? To quote someone. I'll put $50 on it.
Robyn - 30, November, 2011 (8:00)

You are safe there Sue, I'm not a complainer.

Lorikeet must be pretty old by now.
Sue Do-Nim - 30, November, 2011 (7:43)

Robyn:

Please don’t contact the Moderator/Administrator/Word Police/Censor……every time someone does, I end up getting wiped.

Lori Keet:
Here’s a quote I happened upon in one of my old MENSA journals.
Seems that even in the last century you had a habit of annoying some of the great thinkers.

“Unlike you Madam, I do not like to state an opinion on a matter unless I know the precise facts.”
—Albert Einstein --- Quoted in an interview, With LORIKEET, August 12, 1945.
Robyn - 30, November, 2011 (7:20)

Who is Robyn 11?
Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (7:20)

Lorikeet

Perhaps I should go running to the Moderator? - I quote you: "Not only is your understanding limited to a very narrow base, but you have no respect for other people." Precisely what did I say to warrant this attack? I merely reminded you of the things you have said in the past!

You still haven't told me why this (Greens) man found it so difficult to get his money out of QSuper. Nor which company produces cluster bombs. Instead of hurling abuse, how about answering the questions?

And, the less said about comparisons between yourself and 'great thinkers' such as Einstein and Newton, the better! Please don't embarrass yourself further.
Helen - 30, November, 2011 (7:01)

contd -The boats that came had hundreds on them during the Vietnam war & after. It was amazing that anyone survived at all. There was also a lot that the people weren't told in the early days & many of our prev PMs weren't quite what we thought they were.

I guess there was no TV & our forebears relied on what they were told (& it wasn't always the truth).

Some would say that not much has changed but I do think everything is more "visual" now & not much can be hidden these days...
Helen - 30, November, 2011 (7:00)

Good morning from the cloudy/humid/almost raining H/Bry!
I watched a v/int prog last night on SBS1 "The History of us". Did anyone else see it?

I showed Politics & how it all evolved from the early day thru to now. There was a lot of old footage & explanations from some of the old Pollies still around & went thru the white Aust policy etc as well. V Interesting indeed.
Lorikeet - 30, November, 2011 (6:47)

Kay:

I realised long ago that you deserved the title, Robyn III. Not only is your understanding limited to a very narrow base, but you have no respect for other people.

I have seen a newspaper article that listed just about every superannuation fund I have ever heard of as being used for Green projects. This included Industry Funds and Bank Funds. Government Funds were not on the list.

It was a Green who got his money out of QSuper (because of the cluster bombs).

As usual, rude women are out in force, and then claiming the abuse comes from the abusee.

I have been compared many times with some of the world's great thinkers, but only in a positive light. I would enjoy the company of Einstein, Newton etc much better than that of certain women on this blog. Come to think of it, I would take Newton up on one of his laws, which I think is defective.
WEG - 30, November, 2011 (6:02)

Kay Kelly (5:14).

Thank Kay. Yes, I'm well aware of the debate on ethical investments and vested interests, hence my note last evening. You do explain it very well.
Robyn - 30, November, 2011 (5:56)

Kay & Sue,

It's all very obvious really. Lorikeet said in her comment 29 nov (20:56) that nearly all superannuation funds are being used for Green purposes. The Greens are into making cluster bombs. Every little man in the street will tell you this so it must be true.
Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (5:47)

Sue Do-Nim

Yes, most things are not nearly as simple as they at first appear! Even if one applies one's own interpretation of 'ethical', making financial decisions based on this gets very complicated as you point out in the case of Boeing. And of course, everyone is entitled to make their own decision about what they consider to be 'ethical'. And that view varies enormously amongst even a small number of people, let alone across a fund that has maybe hundreds of thousands of members.

And you're right - if Einstein were an NSA member, his views on physics would no doubt get rubbished on this blog!
Sue Do-Nim - 30, November, 2011 (5:35)

Kay K.:

Spot on. Most big companies do produce a wide range of products. Some of which could be deemed unethical.

I have a friend ( I sound like L. don’t I), who refuses to buy anything made by the Motorola Co. because ,amongst other things, they make land mines that reek such wide scale death and suffering.

When I pointed out that the next time he jumped on a plane it would quite possibly be a Boeing, the same company that built the “Enola Gay”, the B-29 that dropped the first atomic bomb on Hiroshima, the argument starts to lose a bit of credibility doesn’t

it.

Ultimately, I guess we should choose the most ethical of the Un-Ethical, if that makes sense.
Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (5:14)

WEG

As I said to Lorikeet, superannuation funds invest in an extraordinarily wide range of companies across the full range of industry sectors. And most big companies produce a wide range of products. However, many superannuation funds such as QSuper have an 'ethical investments' option (which usually has a lower return on investment).

Some time ago, QSuper raised the option that ALL investments they make should be in the 'ethical' category. This was rejected at focus group meetings of members. One reason was the lower returns - and in a parlous market like we have, every dollar counts. Another reason for rejecting such a proposal is that everyone's idea of what constitutes an 'ethical investment' varies. Some people's religious views figured strongly in their definition of 'ethical'. Some others considered that nuclear energy was not 'ethical'. And so it goes across a very wide range of social issues. Not easy!
Sue Do-Nim - 30, November, 2011 (5:10)

Kay K.:
Goodness, my dear, you’ve started early.

L.Keet will either totally ignore your comments or, most likely, insult and abuse. She won’t answer your queries.

If Einstein was a contributor to this Blog he’d probably cop it too.

……. Let’s see what happens.
Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (5:00)

Lorikeet

It seems that much of your knowledge is based on 'a man told me...' or 'my teacher told me...' etc, in addition to your Googling efforts and of course, that font of all knowledge, the DLP.

What do you mean when you say 'the man' who supposedly took his money out of QSuper "... found this a very difficult task"?
Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (4:53)

Lorikeet

If my suggesting you misinterpret things you read is "insulting", then so is your suggestion to me that "you don't fully understand what you read"!

It is clearly a case of no matter how many other sane, intelligent and very experienced people make one interpretation of an article, you still insist that your interpretation is 'the correct interpretation'. And you will never be convinced otherwise! You just accuse these other people of not being as smart as you - remember how many times you have said that over the various blog topics? What completely illogical arrogance.

Most superannuation funds invest in an extraordinarily wide range of companies. This spreads the risk. Please tell me which company QSuper invests in that manufactures cluster bombs. I am keen to know!
WEG - 30, November, 2011 (0:16)

Lorikeet does have a point - there are companies in Australia that have investment portfolios with companies of the type mentioned. I won't highlight their names but there are organisations who raise these matters and brand them as unethical investments from time to time. Whether the co. noted has such investments, I can't determine.
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (20:56)

Kay:

That's really insulting. It isn't my fault you don't fully understand what you read.

A man told me he took his money out of QSuper when he found out it was being used to make cluster bombs. He found this a very difficult task.

I have also seen articles in papers which claim that nearly all superannuation funds (union based or otherwise) are being used for Green purposes.

The exception seemed to be Commonwealth government employees' superannuation. I don't know what it is being used for, but I think it has already been earmarked to pay down our foreign debt, which has been constantly escalating since Whitlam signed the Lima Declaration ("sellout your own nation" document).
Kay Kelly - 29, November, 2011 (19:41)

Lorikeet

I am so thrilled that my money is being used to make cluster bombs!!!

Really - where do you get all this stuff????

Now I remember - you misinterpret most things you read. We have seen that with the few apocryphal items we have bothered to check out. There is no reason to think that the information you read to prove this claim is any more reliable.
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (18:49)

MINING TAX

Here is a different view from that of Labor/Greens:

http://www.mathiascormann.com.au/
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (18:41)

If you ladies truly want some balance in the parliament, don't vote for the major party duopoly. A more diverse mix of political representation will result in a more democratic government.

I learned the above more than 30 years ago.

I live in a strongly held State Labor seat. According to an automated telephone poll, the Liberal candidate will win the seat hands down.

When I answered the poll, out of the available alternatives, I said I would vote for Katter's Australian Party. At least I know he cares about his own country, and the Queensland Party will be at the top of my list as well. Greens will remain at the bottom.
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (18:29)

This afternoon I heard that Lord Mayor Campbell Newman wants to set up Independent Schools which hire their own teachers. (The QTU is opposed.) I believe this will involve The Macquarie Bank making a foray into the education system.

This afternoon I found out from the Australian Nursing Federation that Aged Care nurses aren't going to get the 20% wage increase that is being offered to community care workers.

That's really disgusting.
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (18:26)

WEG:

Yes, Slippery Pete is a rat, but instead of deserting a sinking ship, he has decided to join one.

I smelled a larger, much more stinking rat as soon as the government decided to bring in compulsory superannuation for everyone. (Never mind where it is held.) Back then, I just thought that there would be a very ginormous nest egg up for grabs by unscrupulous people.

Since then, I have found out exactly who the rats are and their plan of action. I cannot give the game away here in its entirety without some people dying of heart failure.

Did you know that funds from QSuper are being used to make cluster bombs?

I think MySuper is primarily about taking responsibility for massive losses yourself. I am highly suspicious of anything with "My" or "Mi" in front of it.
Kay Kelly - 29, November, 2011 (17:54)

WEG

I guess I was including the government super schemes in the 'industry fund' category - funds that are run for specific employees - in my mind, including public servants. In Qld, QSuper is not run by the unions, although like most, if not all, boards of directors these days, it would include union representation. I think the fee structure is similar to industry funds.
WEG - 29, November, 2011 (17:44)

The main strategy within 'MYSUPER' legislation is to strenghthen this sector.
WEG - 29, November, 2011 (17:32)

....Industry Funds are Labor Party ideology. They're run by Unions.
Kay Kelly - 29, November, 2011 (17:29)

Lorikeet

Like WEG (14:39) I would like to know what you mean by "privatisation of pensions". As WEG said, Commonwealth (and other government) public servants used to have a 'defined benefit' pension scheme based on years of service and exit salary. This was unfunded. It relied upon more public servants coming into the system than left - a bit of a Ponzi scheme, I guess. This became unsustainable and if continued would have slowly bled Commonwealth coffers. Hence the NEED to switch all new comers to the public service to a new scheme whereby the money you put in was invested. This approach had always been used by commercial superannuation funds. Industry funds charge lower fees and hence the returns are usually slightly better in the long term. All these changes were based on economics - not ideology!
Kay Kelly - 29, November, 2011 (16:52)

Bob B.

I'm with you there! I'm not sure what I will do in the next State election. On the one hand, Bligh and her crew have to go! But I am not impressed with Campbell Newman, especially his poor environmental policies such as repealing the Wild Rivers legislation. From what I have heard, only Noel Pearson wants it repealed - the native title holders don't. The LNP usually self-destruct anyway. I hope I am a little clearer which way I want to vote come the election! It is bound to be a case of which is the worst?
Bob B - 29, November, 2011 (16:15)

I do face a dilemma next election. My local MP Lib Steve Ciobo is a nice and good performing young man worthy of support. I sent him an email some years ago about the money the feds had provided Qld for the M1 exention Nerang to Worongary; he actually called me from Canberra to discuss he matter - Bligh had used the money elsewhere. The work is now well underway.

Abbott I just cannot support nor can I support Gillard. Brown hasn't got it nor the DLP.

State election - Bligh has to go but my Lib MP is a bumbling knowall to talk with as I do about seniors issues. I think the swing against labor will be strong unless the LNP launches into self destruct as they tend to do. That suggests (to me) a later rather than earlier election - anywhere from Feb to June next year.
Helen - 29, November, 2011 (16:08)

I guess that makes me a bit "rainbow" coloured really!

I just have no faith in the current Libs. Their forebears would all turn in their graves with the current line-up.

Abbott & crew just spruked their usual once again this arvo after the budget changes were announced. They still can't say how they will find their money if in office. It looks like if they ever did get in, being a pub serv would def be a problem.

Have to go now - "I'll See Ya"...
Bob B - 29, November, 2011 (16:06)

ay Kelly

Here here. I'm with you on that. I used to be staunch liberal but no more. Like you I look at the issues untainted by political spin, if that is at all possible today, and vote accordingly. I did support Howard as he was very astute and had Australia as a core value. Didn't always agree with him but most of what he did had my support.

I'm still very unsure about Gillard though; she tends to be wet and slippery still. John Howard would certainly be invited into my home but Julia would stand at the door until I asked her to leave the premisis. Bob Hawke could come in but Keeting would see the door shut quickly and Whitlam I would set the dogs on.
Helen - 29, November, 2011 (16:02)

Hey Robyn! I love Simply Bushed too (as mentioned before). they are so wonderful live. There is a new clip now called "I'll See Ya". did you catch that one?

Kay - I don't follow any party either. I voted Lib before. I tend to vote with the party whom I think have the most to offer.

If Lab had not been a hung P. We would be getting an ETS not a CT/ETS. I don't always agree with the Greens but support anything that stops pollution & teaches us better ways of farming etc. A tax on junk food outlets would be supported by me & a dep on all bottles & cans. I am tired of picking up other people's messes outside my house hurled out of car windows contd -
Robyn - 29, November, 2011 (15:56)

Kay,

I got that you weren't saying she lied after I wrote the first of my last 2 messages which is why I said in my 2nd message that I am clear now that you are saying you don't respect her and why. I'm sorry I misread you in the first place and I should have been clearer in my second message. It would be nice if all of our politicians were entirely open and genuine.
Kay Kelly - 29, November, 2011 (15:54)

(cont.)

At each election I decide which of the 2 major parties I will vote for. I don't believe in informal voting because that denies the great privilege we have in living in a democracy - we should care enough to vote properly. But it is not always easy to decide which way I will vote. Both the ALP and Coalition have politicians/policies I don't like, and some I do like. Where is the balance? Every time I must make that decision - which is the less worse? Remember I started out as a Communist, then went to ALP, but realised with Peter Costello in charge of the budget that my personal needs were better aligned with the policies he espoused - they say you drift Right as you age. But I am not a believer!
Kay Kelly - 29, November, 2011 (15:44)

Robyn, Helen, Laurakeet

I think there is one big difference between us - and that is not as simple as you guys are Greens/Labor and I am Liberal. The biggest single difference is that I am not a believer! I don't wholeheartedly believe in, or support, any political party! I am just as critical of the Libs as I am of the Greens/Labor! A perusal of my comments in the past will show that. Nor do I think Abbott or Howard are fantastic leaders. Certainly Howard was a successful politician given his long rein as PM. But I do judge each topic on its merits - its merits as I see it at the time! And yes, my views do change over time as more info comes to hand.
Kay Kelly - 29, November, 2011 (15:35)

Robyn

I don't believe I have ever said she 'lied' about introducing a CT!! If you read my comments, I said I could understand her need to change tack after she had to lead a minority government with her having to bend to the new situation. It was her ridiculous denying she had said it that made me lose respect for her. She subsequently gave the true and correct response - that circumstances had changed - but not for a couple of weeks at least! And no, I don't think she would have gone ahead with the CT if she had won outright.

As for John Howard's 'non-core' promises - remember I did say he was a "tricky politician". He would do anything to wriggle out of something he subsequently regretted.
Robyn - 29, November, 2011 (15:22)

Kay,

Your next 2 comments popped up while I was writing mine. As I said before, I can't remember her saying she had never said it but I'm willing to accept that my memory is poor on this matter and I am clear about why you don't respect her. You could not possibly have respected John Howard either with all of his "non-core" promises.
Robyn - 29, November, 2011 (15:14)

Kay,

The big question is: Would she have changed her mind if Labor had won the election outright? When she said she would not introduce a carbon tax she was not anticipating the election outcome to be what it was. Hence we have no proof that she really did lie.
Kay Kelly - 29, November, 2011 (15:07)

(cont.)

I agree that Hans Blix never found any WMDs or evidence they ever existed. I did see an interview with him not long ago in which he said that all the obfuscating by Saddam Hussein made one think he was hiding something, although they certainly had failed to find anything. When they could search everywhere in Iraq (which they couldn't before because of Saddam Hussein mucking them about), they still found nothing. And yes, the world was deceived by the reports of both the US and UK analysts - probably because the US absolutely wanted to go into Iraq - regardless. But whether Blair and Howard (and others) knew the truth before the invasion is a moot point. I am prepared to believe they didn't.
Kay Kelly - 29, November, 2011 (14:59)

(cont.)

Eventually Julia realised what an idiot she looked denying she had said she wouldn't introduce a CT (when all the TV channels were replaying the video of her saying it) and then played the perfectly defensible line that circumstances had changed and that the reality of a minority government meant a change in plans. Bob B. also seems to recall the initial dithering on her part (his blog 8:14).

I'm sorry if neither you nor Robyn seem to remember the initial foolish approach she took on this, but I remember it quite well.
Robyn - 29, November, 2011 (14:56)

Have been watching some video clips on youtube of "Simply Bushed" and "Wizard and Oz". Both good bands. Did anyone check out Rapskallion? They have a gypsy vaudeville style - bit of a Cirque de Soleil feel. As usual, their clips don't do justice to how brilliant they are live.

Bob B,
I watched the clip you recommended but my computer froze before I got to the end. I'm glad you told us the ending was a happy one. Nice to see the northern lights.
Kay Kelly - 29, November, 2011 (14:56)

Laurakeet

Re your 12:01 blog. No, there is no problem with people changing their minds. Paul Keating proposed a GST long before John Hewson, but clearly changed his mind. John Howard (on the back of Hewson's defeat) said he wouldn't introduce a GST. Then he changed his mind, but he took that change of policy to a vote!!!!! That is the point!! I have no problem whatsoever with people changing their minds as circumstances change - that is only sensible. But Julia Gillard at first denied she had even said she wouldn't introduce a CT! That is what made me lose respect for her! And of course she certainly didn't go to the voters with the CT (that would have been electoral suicide)- but Howard did so with the GST.
WEG - 29, November, 2011 (14:39)

Lorikeet - Not sure what you mean by ‘privatisation of pension’.

There are a variety of public service pensions plans run by State and Federal Govn. Usually these were defined benefit. The Future Fund was set up in an attempt to pay for those unfunded super plans for Fed Govn. employees. Define benefit plans are rare these days and most valuable for people that have them, especially in these uncertain times.

Then you have Corp / Retail funds. Also, Union run Industry funds. Majority of these plans would be unitised now days. You get what you put in plus investment earning/loses.

The individual has the choice (currently) on what type of pension plan they secure, or alternatively, there is the safety of the aged pension for those 65 – 67 plus age group.

Is this the rat you smelt ?...............
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-nsw/rats-now-peter-slippers-serjeant-at-arms-is-trying-to-ban-the-tele/story-e6freuzi-1226208572849
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (13:50)

The worst thing that ever happened to Australia was the privatisation of pensions. I smelled a large stinking rat the first time I heard it.

It has created a list of conflicts of interest which will cost us all dearly. It has caused the empowerment of greedy bankers and the government to pass the people's income producing assets and utilities in their direction.

It has caused Aged Care to be moved into the "For Profit" sector, so frail elderly people can be ripped off. The findings of the Productivity Commission into Aged Care is proof of this.

How many employers will want to contribute 12% to a superannuation fund for every one of their employees? Will a reduced rate of Company Tax compensate small to medium employers for this extra outlay? I highly doubt it.
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (13:40)

As we know, Labor/Greens are as thick as thieves. What else would we expect but a watering down of the facts on a Greens blog?
Bob B - 29, November, 2011 (13:14)

Its nearly Christmas. Watch this lovely story of love. Girls, have the tissue box handy. Happy ending.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/YBIwCdvhgX4?rel=0"
Robyn - 29, November, 2011 (12:17)

WEG, Lorikeet, Kay and anyone else who is up in arms about Julia Gillard's so called "lie".
I invite you all to pop over to Andrew Bartlett's blog to read his strand "Lies,Damn Lies and really really Big Lies". In particular read his opening comments + video and his post on Oct 14 2011.

Really, the carry on about Julia Gillard's lie, (as you all see it) is hype, damn hype and really really big hype!
Laurakeet - 29, November, 2011 (12:01)

Kay and WEG, my memory is that Julia Gillard did not deny saying there would be no carbon tax, she was trying to put it into the context of the changed Parliamentary situation with a minority government. In the end she gave up on that tack.

Honest John did take the GST to an election, but that is not my point. He said “never ever” to the GST and then changed his mind. If Gillard is not allowed to change her mind, then why do we allow Howard to do so?

The UN weapons experts led by Hans Blix never found WMDs or any evidence they existed in Iraq. The spin of their existence was put on their report by the US and its allies to justify the invasion. There was no other reason to justify it as regime change was originally specifically ruled out by the coalition of the willing (something else Honest John changed his mind on).
Laurakeet - 29, November, 2011 (11:58)

Lorikeet, when will you finally accept that I have not copied your name? My husband has been calling me Laurakeet for years, well before I even knew you existed. It was in response to a complaint about noisy lorikeets, but the feathered ones, not you. I have written this before, but you might have forgotten. At the risk of being deleted by our Lorikeet-friendly moderator, not everything is about you Lorikeet.
Robyn - 29, November, 2011 (10:21)

(cntd)
"It announced that it would scrap the tax but keep the superannuation increases that this tax is enabling, leaving no way to pay for it. Over-eager oppositionism, amended by populism. Silliness becomes farce. And when members of his own party confronted Abbott over this in the Coalition party room this week, he grew angry and shut down the debate."
Robyn - 29, November, 2011 (10:17)

(cntd)
"The tax will raise 1$11 billion over 3 years for redistribution to the rest of the economy by making a minor cut to the company tax rate, giving small business a tax benefit and enabling higher compulsory superannuation contributions."
"When the Coalition realised that its position had led it to oppose higher superannuation savings for millions of Australians - gulp- it had to execute an inelegant quasi-backflip.
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (10:13)

Bankers are getting the golden egg, along with the Chinese, who import iron ore and send us back value-added products. At the same time, they take our work and destabilise our economy.

If you overtax the Mining Industry, it is certain to move offshore. As soon as the Rent Resource Tax was floated, a smaller mining company went to Africa to check out the iron ore. Their small aircraft crashed and all of their executives were killed. Does this not tell us something?

I think it tells us that the small to medium miners will be sent broke by a Mining Tax, but this would fit in perfectly with the agendas of Labor/Liberals to ensure that only the biggest companies survive.

We have all seen this happening for decades.
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (10:07)

The new rules are about "not goading anyone" or calling them names such as "twisted sister".

I'd say Bob B. has hit a home run about large sums of money being put on the table by Rockefeller, but to think this doesn't have sinister connotations is probably not accurate.

The Rockefellers belong to one of the world's largest banking families, seriously interested in ripping us all off. As we know, the UN has taken away a large part of most country's national sovereignty, including issues of trade.
Robyn - 29, November, 2011 (10:05)

(cntd)
"It's unwise and probably impossible to try to stop the boom, as the Reserve Bank's governor, Glenn Stevens, has said. And it would be a serious mistake to re-regulate the floating dollar, which has served as the principal shock-absorber for Australia's economy. So all that's left is to try to manage the boom."
"An intelligent approach for the Coalition would have been to work to improve the design of the tax. Instead, it rushed heedlessly to oppose it, latching onto metaphors like "you can't kill the goose that lays the golden egg". One senior official turned this aroud: "The mining industry is the goose that's stealing the golden egg."
Robyn - 29, November, 2011 (9:55)

(cntd)
"The boom, by elevating the Australian dollar, is hammering the competitiveness of every other export sector and every import-competing sector in Australia. Manufacturing, higher education and tourism, for instance, are suffering. Through this "Dutch disease" or "resource curse" effect, mining exerts a brutal force on the rest of the economy. It's a vast convulsive force that makes the carbon tax look trivial in scale by comparison."
Robyn - 29, November, 2011 (9:49)

Will reproduce a little of the relevant parts here for those who don't want to read the whole article.

"The mining tax is a prime example of the way the Coalitions eagerness to say "no" has led it to rush into silly positions."
"The mining tax is poorly designed. It is not ideal. But the tax on mining is the only tool now in prospect for Australia to manage the mining boom." (to be continued)
Robyn - 29, November, 2011 (9:43)

Kay (and others who might be interested),

Regarding earlier discussions about 1) the mining tax and 2) Tony Abbott's negativity:

I came across a good article by Peter Hartcher called "Abbott's positively negative".
It can be googled or found at:

http://m.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/abbotts-positively-negative-20111125-1nz5j.html

(to be continued)
Bob B - 29, November, 2011 (9:11)

Another useful cut and paste:

Prior to the choice of New York City, Navy Island near Niagara Falls in Ontario, Canada was proposed as an alternative headquarters for the United Nations. An international committee touted the site as the "World Peace Capital" during 1945 and 1946. The island was considered an ideal location as it lay on the boundary of two bordering countries with a long peaceful status. The proposal further stipulated that Navy Island would be ceded to the United Nations as long as the headquarters remained, and to revert to the Canadian Government should the UN move. The proposal was ultimately rejected in favor of the current site in New York City.[12]
Robyn - 29, November, 2011 (9:10)

Lorikeet:

You continually put down the Greens and Labor but you can't handle it when the DLP is put down.
Bob B - 29, November, 2011 (9:08)

Lorikeet

I did indeed google and quote:

Proposed alternatives (for a new UN HQ)

San Francisco, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, Flushing Meadows-Corona Park in Queens,[8] Chopmist Hill Area of Scituate, Rhode Island and even the Black Hills of South Dakota and Bald Head Island in North Carolina[10] were all proposed as sites for the United Nations Headquarters before Manhattan was finally decided upon. It was later revealed that France, the United Kingdom, and the Netherlands voted against situating the headquarters in the United States.[11] The Manhattan site was selected after John D. Rockefeller, Jr. offered to donate $8.5 million to purchase the land.[8]

I think $8.5m on the table may have been a game winner. There were many other nomination from other countries as well with one at Niagara Falls high on the list. I see nothing sinister at all.
ROBERT HINES - 29, November, 2011 (9:05)

By far the worlds greatest guitarist is HANK B MARVIN LEAD GUITARIST FOR THE SHADOWS. He has won many awards for it and has taught a lot of famous guitarist like ERIC CLAPTON just to name one.Most people I know have heard of the instrumental APACHE.As a guitarist of 47 years and listen to this guy play ,he can litterally
get a guitar to speak the word and that is very very rare.
Sue Do-Nim - 29, November, 2011 (9:04)

I quote you and I’m the one who’ll get censored…How does that work?
Your vile comments were justified because there’s no moderator?.. Huh?
You are a seriously twisted sister.

Bloggers will have to choose a more didactic approach when engaging in any social intercourse with you.

Reasoning and common sense are not your obvious attributes .We will simply have to educate you by lecturing. You have no debating skills and even though your contributions to this Blog are long winded and voluminous they lack any concept or perception or tolerance of others views.

Shallowness abounds and self justification is omnipresent.

Enjoy your Tuesday.
Robyn - 29, November, 2011 (9:02)

Bob B,
Thanks for the laugh. Sometimes I get heartily sick of the aggrandizement of the DLP and its members that gets bandied around on this blog.

Sue Do-Nim,
In reproducing that comment you have highlighted the current hypocrisy. You would be justified in wondering why your comment disappeared yesterday while that one remained. I guess it comes down to the new rules which seem to be about not goading Lorikeet.
Bob B - 29, November, 2011 (8:59)

It seems the forecast for showers saw true because we had 4mm overnight. Very patchy on the BOM radar but we were lucky, don't have to water now before we head off for our weekly morning of Tai Chi.
Helen - 29, November, 2011 (8:40)

(2)Abbott has declared blood taking in this area. He can't of course achieve these ends & as mentioned by me before, who will be lying then!! Also, what will the people do when what is rolled out next May is taken back & a tax is put on everything for them instead?

IT JUST WON'T HAPPEN! - Everything will stay & the gov (if elected) will say the that the economic position has made it necessary to not change anything. Besides they can't do anything anyway for two elections - THINK ABOUT IT, it's as plain as the moderators movements on this blog!...
Helen - 29, November, 2011 (8:39)

I saw my name was mentioned & whilst I was checking to see where my "horrible" comment was, L's comment disappeared!

L you have to be sure next time (& not just think so!).

I'm glad that some can see what could happen if we had a change in gov, especially when there are no real policies on the agenda except getting rid of anything the current gov has achieved by the opp/p. Contd-
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (8:34)

Sue-Do-Nim:

That comment was a response to constant needling and derision coming from Robyn and her small band of very nasty contributors, and well justified since there was no moderation occurring at the time.

To copy it here now is to incite the Moderator to block you. Please behave like an adult and show respect for other bloggers.
Bob B - 29, November, 2011 (8:33)

Robyn

Everyone is entitled to their view, so at least give that to Lorikeet.

The problem is that we are correct ipso facto by the current state of play and what is lacking is Lorikeet's failure to embrace that as well as riding the DLP wagon off into the sunset with hooves flailing and stones flying whilst singing yanky doodle dandy at the top of her voice. Please forgive the Americanism but it was just too good a mind picture to let go.
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (8:30)

I have never phoned the Moderator at all. She knows how to read her blog and deal with inappropriate comments, such as those emanating from Robyn at the moment.

Here's something else to ponder while I go about my daily duties:

"Why did the Headquarters of the UN move from Geneva, Switzerland to New York, USA?"
Robyn - 29, November, 2011 (8:25)

Well here is another nasty comment Lorikeet.
Who cares about the DLP (beside you)? The DLP is a nothing that you think is a something. Who cares what anyone in the DLP thinks of the Greens? To even attempt to compare the 2 parties is a joke!!!
Bob B - 29, November, 2011 (8:24)

Oh dear, a few big fingers hitting the wrong key - but you know what I mean.
Bob B - 29, November, 2011 (8:22)

Lorikeet

You may not have emailed but have you rung NSA moderator of in fact spoken with her?

Robyn

Another statement of fact taken as nasty. I think the DLP may one day have a couple of members in parliament and might, circumstantially, hold power as the independents currently hold power. Otherwise its a spent force in need of rejigging for mainstream Australians to notice and support. The evidence speaks for itself irrespective of what a few thing.
Sue Do-Nim - 29, November, 2011 (8:19)

Hey Lori...:
Speaking of nasty comments..here's a beauty.

Robyn:

You're not a lateral thinker. When you're not behaving like a drunken toddler, you are communing with the other schoolyard bullies.

I have been in the blogosphere for 7 to 8 years, and you are without a doubt the most immature person of ANY age that I have ever encountered.

Sure, there have been quite a few bitches, but you take the cake.

The posting was,of course from :

Lorikeet 20 th Oct. 2011 14:35
Robyn - 29, November, 2011 (8:18)

Lorikeet:

If Tony Abbott were to install his environmental scheme rather than the carbon tax, just how do you think he would finance it? He would raise GST. If Gillard had taken the carbon tax to an election and lost, we would now be facing the weak and dumb scheme favoured by LNP under Abbott and we would be looking at much higher cost to all of us and yes, most likely, an increase in GST.
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (8:16)

Tony Zegenhagen leads the DLP. Before he went to work with Senator John Madigan in the electorate office in Ballarat and Parliament House in Canberra, he was both the federal and state leader.

He is responsible for most of the work done in building a new federal website, and is also currently working on a new Queensland website.

Senator Madigan is currently fairly ticked off with the Greens. Despite paying lip service to the development of Regional Australia, they support policies which will turn it into an economic wasteland.
Bob B - 29, November, 2011 (8:14)

Lorikeet

Its a pity you appear not to have had management experience that leads to decisions being changed or updated as circumstances changes. You would otherwise understand such things. Whilst I am not a fan of Julia I do see why she changed on a carbon tax as circumstances changed.

Her problem is that she tried to conceal this from us in what became a very clumsy situation and distanced herself from her statement of no tax. This shows more of her personal values or lack thereof than the decision itself.
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (8:10)

That's another nasty comment, Robyn.
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (8:09)

Laurakeet:

You may have copied my name, but I'm glad I don't make excuses for the Slave Labor Party.

You're right about John Howard and the GST. Indirect forms of taxation (such as the GST) hurt the most financially vulnerable people, those who would not normally be required to pay any tax to the ATO.

Privatisation of the nations income producing assets and utilities has led to higher charges for everything, and yet again, is hurting the poor more than anyone.

I don't support Liberals or Labor/Greens, but since I learned a lot more about the economy, my vote has to default to the right (Liberals) regardless of my financial circumstances.
Robyn - 29, November, 2011 (8:03)

"Triple Alliance" was a lie. IT NEVER EXISTED!!!

Who cares what Tony Zeggenhagen thinks (beside you Lorikeet)? Who is this man anyway? He is a nobody who you think is a somebody because he's a DLP devotee. The DLP is really of little importance in this country and thankfully will NEVER achieve electoral significance.
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (7:57)

For the umpteenth time, I have not emailed the Moderator in weeks.
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (7:54)

The federal leader of the DLP is ex-navy. He said that "Children Overboard" was also a misrepresentation of the facts. We don't know what the truth is about anything, if we haven't been there to see it.

Tony Zegenhagen says there's no way the Australian navy would allow anybody's kids to drown.

I think the triple alliance (UK, Australia, USA) is mainly about US Presidents bossing us all about when it suits them, and ignoring our needs at other times. I can remember my parents being angry because the USA didn't help in the WWII war in the Pacific, until the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour (their turf).
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (7:46)

Julia Gillard blatantly lied to us on prime time television regarding her statement: "There will be no Carbon Tax under a government I lead."

Perhaps she is telling us she is NOT leading the parliament, but "taking" her decisions from Global Masters from the UN.

On Sunday morning political programs, Global Masters are now sometimes mentioned. A Global Government and the "delegation of part of our national sovereignty" were mentioned by Professor Michael Spence at the National Press Club a few months ago. He is a Nobel Laureate Economist and a communist of the first order.

A DLP government would tear up and toss onto a bonfire, all of the international agreements, treaties and declarations which sell us out as a nation.
WEG - 29, November, 2011 (7:44)

Kay Kelly (5.42 & 5.47)

It’s refreshing to once again read your accurate and balanced input.
Why would anyone attempt to validate a point of view from a spurious position?

In relation to the Moderator – good luck.

At least it seems “the Monitor” seems to have disappeared into the ether, which has assisted in raising the standard of this blog somewhat.
Robyn - 29, November, 2011 (7:43)

Do you remember how we were fed the notion that we were part of the "triple alliance"? Another lie to dupe the Australian people! There was never a "triple alliance". Many countries went in to support the US in Iraq. What about the "children overboard" lie. Or was that not a lie in your view too?
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (7:39)

Some people are clearly willing to believe anything Julia Gillard tells you. The move to install Slippery Pete as the Speaker in the House of Representatives was exceedingly skulduggerous considering the surrounding circumstances.

At the next election, I'm sure Labor will get the very sound drubbing they very richly deserve and would have got last time, if it were not for all of the women who looked at their ballot papers through a rosy matriarchal glow.

Bartlett's Blog doesn't tolerate people constantly making snide remarks about the one person (bullying). The Moderator's removal of nasty comments is to be commended.
Robyn - 29, November, 2011 (7:39)

Kay,

I am willing to admit that my memory may be wrong but I honestly cannot remember Julia Gillard ever denying that she said that she would not introduce a carbon tax. She said she changed her mind because of the circumstances.
John Howard was called "Honest John" precisely because he was dishonest. Costello would be the first to attest to that. Do you honestly believe that he, Blair and Bush were duped about WMD in Iraq? Gee, I don't. We demonstrated in the tens of thousands at the time because we didn't believe there were WMD. Why did so many around the world not believe while the Leaders supposedly did? It was because the information coming out of Iraq from the international team indicated there were no WMD to be found. (to continue)
Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (7:29)

ETS:

The movie was: "The Ides of March".

I would recommend giving it a miss in favour of "In Time" which I have already described. When your pay rate is dictated by the employer based on individual productivity and his whim on the day, your life span becomes even more tenuous.

Bob B:

That was an abusive comment no matter how YOU want to spin it. If you looked more closely, you will find I was answering another contribution. I think it was Helen.

In the distant past, I thought you were a nice man, but you are clearly only nice when it suits you.
Helen - 29, November, 2011 (7:28)

Interesting comments O/N. All's fair in Politics from what I can see.
The Libs were quite disgusting with their behaviour all yr with no thought for anything they did to anyone (or their families!) other than destroying the gov. They cared little about our C/Try.

Abbott's only agenda was being PM. All this failed & they got beaten at their own game (& the leg still got thru)!

My prediction is that Labour will go thru to the next election. I'm not convinced that they will be defeated either. What I am sure of is that Abbott will be replaced & what has been put in place will stay...
Kay Kelly - 29, November, 2011 (6:53)

Correction - typo!

Line 5 in my 6:05 blog should have read "FROM dissenting and passionate discussions!"
Kay Kelly - 29, November, 2011 (6:05)

I am still as 'mad as hell' about this very insulting and demeaning approach by the Moderator whereby even very mild and inoffensive comments get deleted!!!! And what's worse - no explanation!!!

Has this Moderator read other blogs? very robust - no deletions! Look at SBS blogs! Look at the Barlett Blog! You would think we were children who had to be sheltered for dissenting views and passionate discussions!

Of course, it would be better if a certain hypocritical blogger did not run to the Moderator all the time.
Kay Kelly - 29, November, 2011 (5:57)

(cont.)

As for John Howard - he was a very successful and tricky politician. Definitely no 'Honest John'! And yes, he did originally say there would be no GST. However, when he changed his mind and decided to have a GST, he did take it to the polls so people voted in accordance with that commitment! I don't believe anyone can criticise that! Julia certainly refused to go back to the polls to get electoral support for the CT - Howard at least had the courage to do that!

As for Iraq - John Howard was not the only world leader to be deceived by the security services advising them. Certainly Tony Blair made this quite clear. Saddam Hussein 'dug his own grave' by boasting and obfuscating about WMDs - even the international team subsequently unsuccessfully looking for WMDs was surprised they found none!
Kay Kelly - 29, November, 2011 (5:42)

Laurakeet & Robyn

I must argue against your Point 1 response to Lorikeet - and I don't think I am "stuck in the mud". Julia did in fact say 'there will never be a carbon tax under a government I lead'. And yes, things changed when she had to form a minority government, including the ability to stick by that pledge. But, then, for quite some time she tried to walk away from the fact she had even said it in the first place!! That is when I lost respect for her. Eventually, sanity prevailed and she said what she should have said when she announced the Carbon Tax - i.e. that the minority government situation required a change in policy. Very poor political judgement on her part to try to convince everyone she had never said it!
Robyn - 28, November, 2011 (21:36)

Bob B,

I prefer "get stuck into the grog" to "get rid of Gillard". However, I have to have this view, being the blog alcoholic (according to one slanderous bird).
Robyn - 28, November, 2011 (21:11)

Laurakeet,

Your points are well argued but appeals to clear minded consideration of them will reap no positive response I'm afraid. Your first point has been argued over and over again with Lorikeet, to no avail. When we are stuck in the mud we are stuck in the mud!

ETS. I love Moir. He is my favourite cartoonist. Good point about how your comment survived and Sue's went down the drain. I do feel for our moderator. She has a difficult job.

Sue,
Somewhere along the line we all found out our moderator is female. However, we also all know that the moderator's most constant email correspondent is Lorikeet. Don't ask me how we know, we just do. Things get pretty twisted around here! Stick it out. We are with you.
Bob B - 28, November, 2011 (20:57)

Lorikeet

Your 16:57

Quote 'My opinion of the rental market has absolutely nothing to do with my brother's situation, but is relevant to matters I have seen discussed at a political level on TV recently.'

Why mention your brother's siuation if it is irrelevant to the point being made? Here is a new term for you - in the RAAF in my time you would be said to be a waisted space for a comment like that.

That's a statement of fact not abuse.
Laurakeet - 28, November, 2011 (19:58)

3 This Parliament is a new experience for those of us who were not around for the last minority government. The Speaker is an Officer of the Parliament. Convention says he should come from the Government, but it is not essential. It is worth noting the tradition in Westminster where the Speaker gives up all political connections and stays in the position regardless of who wins the election. It is not uncommon for the Speaker to come from a different Party to the Government. Australia is not breaking new ground here at all. We may not think much of the person in the position but the process to get him there was quite sound.

You should be clear minded enough to see that your points are not valid when looked at closely.
Laurakeet - 28, November, 2011 (19:57)

2 There was no bribery of the three Independents. Have a closer look and you will see it was a negotiation, just as Taliban Tony was doing with them. Two of them felt more comfortable dealing with Gillard than Abbott and I can understand that feeling very well. The folders contained electoral information and details of proposals the Independents were interested in. Labor was more professional than the Opposition and it showed in the outcome.
Laurakeet - 28, November, 2011 (19:57)

Lorikeet, let’s start with your three points about Julia Gillard.

1 Gillard did not lie about the carbon price, she changed her position when the election result did not give Labour a majority. As a minority government some modifications were necessary. I know the rusted on sceptics and conservatives don’t accept it but it happens. You may as well call John Howard a liar because he gave us the GST after promising never, ever to have one – and he had a majority government. I know he took it to an election but that doesn’t alter the fact that he “lied” about it, ie, he changed his mind. He also “lied” about the reason for the war in Iraq and look where that led us. So go on, make up a lying nickname for Honest John if you can.
ETS - 28, November, 2011 (19:55)

Yeah, I agree, not very funny when written down. Definitely better to look at. For some of us, the humour was in the statement.

What movie did you see today?
Lorikeet - 28, November, 2011 (19:52)

If any of my real sons and I saw that when we were walking down the street, we would be very eager to stop and read more.

We don't have a Sherlock Holmes gene for nothing.
Lorikeet - 28, November, 2011 (19:45)

As we know, Labor has lost a lot of its members. This is why Kevin-O-Lemon is talking about becoming more democratic in the branches and listening to the members.

He is also trying to float the same old red herring - the one where he becomes PM again.

He is getting the general public used to the idea of another change of leader, but it won't be him. $50 says it will be Bill Shorten.

Perrett will then do as he said on national television, and leave due to another leadership change. This is why Slippery Pete is now sitting in the Speaker's chair.

All of this is also happening to deflect our attention from the debacle that is the Murray Darling Basin Plan.
Lorikeet - 28, November, 2011 (19:40)

Hell, ETS, that isn't even remotely amusing. In fact it is nearly as boring as today's movie.
ETS - 28, November, 2011 (19:39)

The Moir cartoon has Kevin Eleven on a stage holding a paper that says "ALP Leaders Should Consult With Grassroots".

The audience is in stitches of laughter as Kevin says "but seriously folks..."

Close to the mark.
Lorikeet - 28, November, 2011 (19:38)

Kay:

Thanks for the tip.

I think private debt is more about credit card and mortgage debt, also moneys borrowed by small businesses.

For decades, the banks have encouraged people to "have it now, pay later". When coupled with superannuation holdings, it has increasingly put the banks in the driver's seat. This is very economically dangerous.

Private debt is going down in Australia. Most people think this is because the people are paying down debt, and of course, some are.

But I think a large part of it is the fact that many people can no longer service a mortgage and are stuck in the private rental market. This is due to wages not keeping pace with inflation, and job security and full-time work becoming increasingly difficult to find.
ETS - 28, November, 2011 (19:36)

Hard to give a verbal description of a cartoon but here goes:

Man and woman (let’s call them Lorikeet and Son) walk down the street past a newsstand. The newspaper headline says NOTHING TO SEE HERE. MOVE ALONG. There is a stop sign that says STOP THINKING.

Son turns to Lorikeet and says “I think it means corporate control is now complete”.

OK, I know, it was much better on the printed page.
Kay Kelly - 28, November, 2011 (18:22)

Lorikeet

It seems to me that public debt is more important. In that regard, Australia is only around 25 - 30% versus USA over 90%. It is private debt that is so high. Perhaps that's what happens when a lot of investment and development is going on?
Kay Kelly - 28, November, 2011 (17:30)

Lorikeet

I don't get the SMH either. Google 'non sequitur cartoon smh today' and the first reference should give it to you.
Lorikeet - 28, November, 2011 (17:14)

New Fourth Son:

I don't know anything about the video. Slippery Pete must have sold his soul to the she-devil because he has no chance of winning the next election, or perhaps the Coalition won't be endorsing him again.

I heard it said that Slippery Pete has been in trouble because he is a heavy drinker.

ETS:

Are you going to tell us what was on that cartoon in the Sydney Morning Herald?
Lorikeet - 28, November, 2011 (17:04)

Some interesting snippets:

Someone on a Greens blog was claiming that our per capita foreign debt is worse than the USA's. So I checked it out, and it seems this is perfectly correct.

The USA is only worse off in this respect: their debt is 99% of GDP and ours is 95%.

Someone told me that Australia is the highest taxing nation on earth. When I checked this out, Australia and the USA were among the 6 lowest taxing nations.

It would be interesting to know if this includes only taxes paid directly to the Australian Taxation Office. If this is so, the information is not worth a cracker.
Lorikeet - 28, November, 2011 (16:57)

Bob B:

My opinion of the rental market has absolutely nothing to do with my brother's situation, but is relevant to matters I have seen discussed at a political level on TV recently.

The Henry Review of Taxation gives plenty of clues as to what dastardly changes we can expect in the future.

WEG:

I seldom drink alcohol but I certainly agree with GROG. I had 3 drinks at a conference, but this was mainly to stop a dairy farmer from killing himself with alcoholic poisoning. He had lost his farm and his wife as well.

The following should be enough for anyone to think that GROG is good:

1. Pre-election lying about massive CO2 tax.
2. Televised bribery of 3 Independents.
3. Putting someone from the Coalition into the Speaker's role.

Today I saw a movie about political machinations in the USA. It was dull and boring compared with what goes on here in Australia.
Helen - 28, November, 2011 (16:25)

I Have to shut down now. Poor L has been rendered silent. I wonder what condition the dentist is in.

As for rain. We have had a record A/M. Today is very hot in the 30s. Cooling off a bit now with the breeze off the water. The W/Man said the rain is coming back to us on Wednesday.

Who is being punished us or those up north. We've had enough, up there you all need more. Another virtual swear word is needed along with one of ET's glasses of wine -
Cheers until tomorrow...
Bob B - 28, November, 2011 (15:48)

I like it. Puts quite a different inflection on 'get stuck into the grog'!!!!
Bob B - 28, November, 2011 (15:35)

Kay

There is a little one that might develop out the back of Murwillumbah and a smaller one out to the NW of that. Don't think there is much in it but boy its hot and humid here. Luckily in the record breaker for SEQld we had 57 mm. Need more though as the ground is still looking for more.
WEG - 28, November, 2011 (15:27)

A Queenslander has started the “GROG” movement under the banner of “Aust GROG Party” selling Stubby holders, T Shirts, bumper stickers, mouse pads etc. imprinted with the word grog on each item with an explanation embedded below. Quite entrepreneurial. He’ll make a fortune.
Guess what GROG stands for? Get Rid Off Gillard.
ETS - 28, November, 2011 (14:53)

With very few exceptions - protection of children being the main one - I have never liked censorship. In a free society the onus should be on the censor to explain why censorship is necessary. Silent censorship is the thin edge, so I'm with you and the others on this one Sue.

I didn't see anything wrong with your comment. Dont' know why it is gone - no explanation is very poor.

Just quietly, my comment about a certain bird last week is still there.
Kay Kelly - 28, November, 2011 (14:36)

Helen

Too hot and humid here for any running around!

And we only had 15 mms of rain after the driest November since 1914! Please....let it storm! Doesn't look likely though.
Kay Kelly - 28, November, 2011 (14:32)

Helen

I doubt such a scheme would be brought back. For starters, it would be horrifically expensive. Secondly, way back in Menzies' day, people were happy with the standard little 2-bedroom weatherboard/fibro house which clearly was affordable. Now ....they want mansions! We are just far more materialistic today.

The increase in taxes necessary would get any government booted out today. Governments prefer incentives like a First Home Owners' Scheme Grant.

Also, not everyone wants to own a home! Back when the stock market was booming, financial advisers were discussing the benefits of renting, plus putting spare money into other forms of investment, such as shares. People move around a lot more, chasing jobs.

On the other hand, I have read that the main determinant of poverty in old age is lack of home ownership. So it seems that owning your own little pad in old age is very important.
Helen - 28, November, 2011 (14:16)

A cuppa sounds like a grand idea. Believe it or not I have worked hard here today & running up & down fifteen stairs to check the blog is wonderful excercise (if not exhausting).

Today our grandson who was only 6 yesterday is now 7. He has already reminded us and as he is only 4ks away, there will be snags for dinner tonight at their place.

The GKs seem to be growing up faster than our own children. Has anyone else noticed this?...
Sue Do-Nim - 28, November, 2011 (14:03)

Girl power is a truly wondrous thing..Thank You.

I'm off for a lie down now.
A quick cuppa and ..Bugger I'm out of Bex.
Kay Kelly - 28, November, 2011 (14:02)

Sue-Do-Nim

I recall reading your now-deleted blog!! I can't see what the problem was! I thought it was really funny!! I don't even think it was critical of Lorikeet - certainly L. didn't sound upset in her 8:00 blog!

So what's the problem!!! I can't believe how ridiculously PC this Moderator is!! As I said on last week's blog, this approach is completely out-of-court, and very insulting and demeaning to us seniors!! I protest!!!

And the worst thing is - no explanation!!!!
Robyn - 28, November, 2011 (13:57)

Helen,
Last time I swore I got told off by one, who also swears, for having a filthy mouth. Never-the-less I will whisper a little swear word for Sue in support.

Gee Sue, I do think you are being picked on.
Helen - 28, November, 2011 (13:41)

Dearest Sue Do-Nim, how awful for you!! Where is "freedom of speach"? Not fair, unjust & just bloody awful I say, not to mention discrimination of the highest order.

You are one of us! & we will stick by you, what do you others say.

Let us all say a "virtual swear word" to ourselves in support of SDN that hopefully the monitor will receive...
Helen - 28, November, 2011 (13:32)

(2)Hopefully someone will show initiative once again and bring the scheme back. What a great start for so many, partic for one parent h/holds & their children & the needy to move up the ladder.

It's true too that when people think they own something, they are inclined to look after it in most cases & not trash the places like they do now.

The info is on the web site & is very interesting & you were right it is Fed & State. without Fed funding the States can't do much though from what I can see...
Sue Do-Nim - 28, November, 2011 (13:31)

Robyn: @ 8:24
Yes I was full of beans but as you may or may not realise that particular posting has been consigned to..well I don’t really know where it’s been consigned to..but it’s gone, no longer with us,it's history.

I’ve been censored AGAIN.

I’m not even blaming Lori… this time. I think the censor doesn’t like me very much.
Can’t imagine why.

Son of a Lori..:

How yer goin’ young fella?
Please continue to allot whatever title you wish, to any politician that you want.
If I even dare to question the maturity of such actions by you or your learned mother ..the word police are called and I get removed from this conversation.

This is my lot..poor old Sue.
Helen - 28, November, 2011 (13:31)

The Precurser to Pub Housing CSHA started in the 1930s to help unemployed during the depression yrs. Chifley changed this in 1943 & in 1945 the first Comm/state housing started. In 1956 Menzies brought in the "buying of PH over 45yrs) with an initial deposit of $100.

Whitlam started the decline & when he was tossed out, Fraser went on to stop funding public housing.

Pretty shameful eh for both sides & great thinking for those possessed with more grey matter than now. Contd -
Kay Kelly - 28, November, 2011 (13:15)

ETS

I think the Non Sequitor cartoon should definitely appeal to Lorikeet!

Just loved the Bruce Petty cartoon today! Says it all!
Kay Kelly - 28, November, 2011 (13:02)

Yes, Bob, costs of providing public services, including housing, are escalating all the time. Any fiscally responsible government is forced to consider where costs can be curtailed. This includes selling off public utilities, and public housing. The risk is then moved to the private sector.

Negative gearing has been shown to be a good incentive to private investors. These private investors then carry the risks of bad tenants. The investors generally take out insurance to cover unpaid rent, plus repairs to the property - it helps when the property is trashed. But being a landlord is no picnic! Costs often outweigh returns, especially with older houses. The whole concept of property investment depends upon rising property prices. In general, you have to hold a property at least 10 years to make a net profit.
ETS - 28, November, 2011 (12:59)

Hi Bob and others.

If you get the chance, look at the "Non Sequitur" cartoon in today's (28/11) Sydney Morning Herald.

I think Lorikeet's worst nightmare has come true :).
Bob B - 28, November, 2011 (12:48)

cont ...

Unless of course there is an ulteria motive we are not aware of. Before you claim to know the answer and put it all to the corporates Lorikeet, I think lack of undersatnding is more the case. I just cannot envisage the boldness of your claims to be valid across such a wide range of indiviuals without someone spilling the beans. Don't forget I am aware of the political scene in Canberra.
Bob B - 28, November, 2011 (12:48)

Public housing should provide a basic house and offer the ability to buy. This saw my in laws buy their house at a time when their was no alternaive (40s) other than to rent public or private. It is indeed a state responsibility. Some consistency across the cuntry would be good though.

Private rentals provide for a different market although there is a considerable overlap. Unless there was an incentive for investors, demand would grow and the problem would reflect back onto public housing. Negative gearing provides a partial incentive and is thereby a benefit for the country in the current climate. And I don't see this changing for many a year. To even contemplate change demonstrates some basic lack of understanding.

cont .....
Kay Kelly - 28, November, 2011 (12:34)

(cont.)

Same thing with electricity - was government owned - was required to deliver such a high dividend to the government that no infrastructure upgrades ever happened. When major electrical supply breakdowns started occurring, the Beattie government flogged it off to private companies. They started investing in infrastructure, plus had to pay their execs and investors a good return, so electricity prices went through the roof!!! Same thing with all the public utilities. But the only alternative is increased taxes to fund the escalating costs. Either way, we pay, but the private companies don't have to run for re-election! This allows governments to keep the rising living costs 'at arm's length' from them.
Kay Kelly - 28, November, 2011 (12:33)

Laurakeet

Yes, you are correct - when a public service becomes too expensive, a government of any colour will be more or less forced to sell it off. And that certainly applied to public housing. In this State there was a long-term Labor government, so Labor was responsible for the sell-off. In other States, it could have been the Libs??
Laurakeet - 28, November, 2011 (12:14)

Hi Kay and Helen, this is an interesting discussion.

I think you will find that Governments of both sides have sold off public housing when it suited them.

Public housing was a Labor initiative in the early days and at times it has been supported by the coalition. I think decisions to sell off public housing have less to do with ideology than with economic circumstances at the time.

Negative gearing allows for a market based source of housing. Being market based however means the price is usually driven by the market.

Public housing meets other needs, often used by those who cannot afford the alternatives. This is not a putdown of those people who often are better tenants than those in the private sector.
Kay Kelly - 28, November, 2011 (11:55)

(cont.)

I don't remember all the details, but there was also a scheme available to landlords and tenants whereby tenants could buy the house they were living in, by using their weekly rental for a year as a deposit. The undertaking was that at the end of the year, the tenant would follow through with the purchase (the ability to pay the rent for a year was proof to lenders that the renter was reliable). It was very beneficial to renters who wanted to buy their own home, but couldn't save the deposit while they were renting.

So the whole concept of providing housing for rental purposes is quite complex.
Kay Kelly - 28, November, 2011 (11:54)

Helen

It is my understanding that public housing is a responsibility of State or Territory governments (not Federal). Here in Queensland we have had a Labor government in power since 1989, all except a brief period 1996 - 1998 when we had a National Party government. I can certainly recall the Labor government selling off whole suburbs of public housing - an example is Churchill in Ipswich. The government had repaired and upgraded the houses for sale, doing landscaping and other improvements. Investors and lower income people snapped them up. They were real bargains.

The cost of maintaining public housing was becoming prohibitive. Many tenants did not value their accommodation, often trashing them. Crime was rife in the area.
Helen - 28, November, 2011 (10:56)

SOL - the Libs shld shut their mouths over Peter Slipper as he was OK for the last 30 yrs until now in their opinion. No dirt dug up then!

In a hung parliament it would have made a difference, still nothing said.

I hope the break will see the Libs take on a diff approach. I don't thinks it's possible unless they get rid of the marfia 4, Hockey, Green, Bishop & of course Dr Doom himself Abbott & then there's Turnbull. The list goes on and on. Not much to look forward to I am afraid for an alternative gov now or in the future...
helen - 28, November, 2011 (10:50)

Yes Kay, you are spot on! I went on the net to trace pub housing & who finally put the knife into it & was shocked to see that it was the Libs. I supported them for so long but being so busy working all the time, I didn't pick up on some of these things.

We must go back to Pub H that can be bought over a long period of time as was still in, in the 60's. Many went on to better themselves later & many are now rental prop in poorer areas. It worked then, it will work now in my opinion...
Kay Kelly - 28, November, 2011 (10:15)

(cont.)

So I would caution those Lefties to want to abolish negative gearing to look at history and consider the need for a significant amount of subsidised public housing to offset the negative gearing removal. I suggest the cost-savings from abolishing negative gearing would be more than offset by the extra costs of subsidised public housing.
Kay Kelly - 28, November, 2011 (10:14)

Yes, superannuation returns are pretty dismal at the moment!!!! And the decision whether or not to cement in a loss by switching to another investment type, or just sit it out, is not easy!

As for negative gearing - I think from memory it was Paul Keating who abolished it despite the warnings from the investment industry etc. The result was so devastating for poorer people (as predicted) that he was forced to reverse that decision pretty quick smart. Naturally, with the change in rules, investors sold their rental properties and put their money into the stock market or other investment type. That resulted in rental properties becoming scarce, with the supply-and-demand forces pushing up rental costs beyond that which the average earner could afford. A disaster for poorer families, given that governments had largely backed out of the housing market.
Son of Lorikeet - 28, November, 2011 (9:57)

Does anybody know about a video that is supposed to be about the new Speaker, Slippery Pete? I heard about it on Insiders yesterday and it is supposed to have some dirt on Pete, although the panel did not think it was as bad as some say it is. I’m just curious, that’s all.

WEG Do-Nim, I hope you don’t object to the Speaker being called Slippery Pete. I’m sure your objection to Taliban Tony Abbott was ideological because you never objected to other nicknames, so Slippery Pete must be OK too. Doesn’t that name suit him?
Helen - 28, November, 2011 (9:51)

We've been seeing the same dentist for many years now. He bulk bills all our check ups & it costs us nothing thru our priv health fund.

We go ea six mths & still have our own "clackers" as my husbands refers to them.

He always reminds us when we are due & I find a time to go. I haven't had anything else done in yrs. My other half is pretty good too but does have a few issues caused by his Parkinsons's & the drugs he is on.

It is costly being in a HF but really necessary for so many reasons. Our eye checks are also bulk billed & the bonus system means we pay very little for our glasses as well. $200+ a mth is costly but it just comes out automat each mth so we are not aware, it's just there for us & hosp too...
ETS - 28, November, 2011 (9:48)

Good morning Senior at Large, you raised a problem that many people are facing with their superannuation. Do you cut your losses in case the sharemarket plunges further, or ride it out and hope that there will be an upturn? It’s a very difficult choice.

If you are not already doing it, I strongly urge you to talk to a professional financial adviser who can take your personal circumstances into consideration. Don’t rely on friends or family or well meaning advice from the blog because you don’t know any more about us than we know about you. Financial advice will cost you but you can ask your questions and it is better than listening to unqualified opinions.

I am not a financial adviser in any sense but I do have one and she has been extremely helpful.
Bob B - 28, November, 2011 (9:29)

Its another lovely day here in 'Paradise' the garden has been watered (tank water) and looks fresh and green. The hibisucus are in flower and I can hear the King Parrots calling.

We are off this afternoon to talk to the primary school kids at assembly at the first of six local schools about our Christmas carols do and to present the first of twelve winners (two per school, big and little school) with their prize for the Art Comp - what does Christmas mean to you. The standard of entry was very high this year.
Bob B - 28, November, 2011 (9:17)

Good morning girls and the odd (not strange)boy.

Lorikeet

Your statement re rental houses seems to be emotively based because it hangs on the fact of your brother's ownership.

When considering whether or not proposed tax changes are good or bad, its paramount to be unemotive. We need to ask what is good for the country. There will be some impacted and others will benefit. Just because it seems your brother will be impacted does not make it wrong.

I think there are loads of anomolous tax laws or rules out there that need to be straightened up. I remember back in about 1994 when I saw the tax act books on he library shelf they covered about 1.5 metres of shelf. Now there are multiple shelves.
Robyn - 28, November, 2011 (8:24)

I wish my dentist would reduce his charges! He is still booked out too and one has to wait months to see him.

Helen, I do agree that there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to why some kids become responsible adults and others struggle. I do think that early drug taking contributes to mental illness which then makes the going tough for some.

Sweet Sue,
One must take these risks. You sound full of beans yourself this morning.
Lorikeet - 28, November, 2011 (8:00)

I am not on anti-depressant medication and have been up since 5.00 a.m.

Both lovely and terrible people can come from the same home. Genetics and nurture are complex issues. Too bad we cannot choose our DNA (yet).

I think schools, hospitals and public housing have been deliberately run down for decades, so the government can invite corporates to take them over and rip everyone off across the board.

I am yet to comment further as to how we can fix some of our nation's problems.

Now I'm off to the dentist, who has had to reduce his charges even though he is the best in our area. This should give a big clue as to whether or not the community is suffering financially.

Two years ago, I had to wait weeks for an appointment. This time I waited only one day and still had a choice of times.
Helen - 28, November, 2011 (7:34)

Contd - When I see how some others have turned out, I am v proud of him. My son's family are his most precious possessions & if he lost his houses tomorrow, he would be upset for a while & he would just get back to it.

We have a nephew of a similar age who drinks & takes drugs & has done since he was 15. He was selling drugs & was expelled from school at this age.

These days he is in & out of jail & mental institutions. It's terribly sad to see. I used to look after him as a little tot.

Everytime I look at both of my sons, I feel truly blessed! There but for the grace of god go I, I say. Why is there such a difference. He came from a good home too...
Helen - 28, November, 2011 (7:24)

Robyn -
I detected a slight tone of resentment from L. Why do people resent those who go out of their way to help others with a place to live while also saving for their own retirement. There is still a mortgage to pay for every house purchased for this kind of investment & upkeep etc.

My son also spent thousands in restoration etc & it will take some years before he realises a return on his money. It is still worth it though in the interim. He is also bringing up two children & paying a mortgage on his own home. He works v hard & deserves any reward that comes down the track. Should be more like him with this kind of foresight & it's good for the C/try...
Helen - 28, November, 2011 (7:15)

Lorikeet - Perhaps it might happen one day who knows. It was tried once before & the bottom fell completely out of the rental/pub housing market. There still aren't enough homes for people to rent in the public sector.

My feeling is that the Govs both State & Fed are happy with this arrangement. those who do this, still pay heaps out of their own pocket & my son pays more than his fair share of tax. Any profits will come in the future.

It should be encouraged instead of encouraging people to live on our social security system, some all their lives.

O/S rental properties are where most live O/S as few own their own homes. Most are also priv owned, although there is still a good public housing system (high rise) in many places we have seen...
Robyn - 28, November, 2011 (7:07)

Lorikeet:

I'll put the question to you that your son wouldn't answer. If corporates are taking over the world what do you expect us all to do about it? Vote for the DLP? Dare I suggest that your own solution to this supposed threat is mightily simplistic?

The one true loss we can all be sure about is our own life. This knowledge gives birth to personal philosophies re what is important. I refuse to spend what is left of my precious time here being a worry wart. You need to party more and worry less.
Lorikeet - 27, November, 2011 (19:02)

My brother has a number of tenanted houses which he owns outright.

According to a segment I saw on the ABC, the government is considering increasing land taxes on rental properties and abolishing negative gearing.

In the future, I think corporates will take over the housing market.
Helen - 27, November, 2011 (15:09)

Bob your party sounds like it was great fun! We are meeting up with some good family friends we have know since before we were married next Fri. We made a pact to never lose contact. We all live a fair distance apart & take it in turns (we woman folk) to cook for each other.

I just love these days & I love them dearly. We have never lost the ability to have a good time & next week we will meet in a Rest. in Parramatta for an Italian nosh-up. It should be fun.

Lovely afternoon here in the H/bry, I think I'll close down early today & go out into the garden, Cheers E/one...
Helen - 27, November, 2011 (14:10)

I think my son's investment is a v good way to save his money until he is ready to retire. It's served him well thus far & he is still quite young with a v young family to support. It also gives him equity, & means he can use the properties he owns outright for his business (& not his house)...
Helen - 27, November, 2011 (14:09)

There are a number of changes we can make to suit the times we are in to get the best deal for our money. Our Advisor is coming next week to go over a new plan where we can make a bit more on our cash. He will put some in term. We don't seem to get charged heaps of fees. He just works in our best interest.

I guess it's just getting the right person for the job. I certainly would not have it out there at the moment & our advisor really warned us about this. He said it will be tricky for some time to come.

Yes, sometimes U can make a killing but most of the time the market drops & many dollars are lost. We'll just have to wait this one out & bide our time. Cont -
Lorikeet - 27, November, 2011 (12:57)

Senior At Large:

I can sympathise with your thoughts and experiences, because I have had exactly the same thing happen. I have moved my money into Fixed Interest (which has been renamed "Global Bonds" - the name is scary!). I never intend to put it in a so-called "balanced" investment again.

Some years Cash does better than Fixed Interest in a superannuation fund, and sometimes it's the other way around.

If I had reached retirement age, I think I might do the same as Bob B.
Bob B - 27, November, 2011 (10:38)

Helen

We too have a sunny day forecast 28 but 32 already on the east side of the house. Its a change from yesterday with treats of showers all day that fortunately came about first light and then in the evening. It was bound to rain during the Rugby Sevens being played just down the road at Robina. Would have been there if other things didn't come to play.

That other thing was a surprise 70th in Brisbane. Wonderful day and the surprise was real. He said he sensed something was up but had no idea of what. I captured his surprised look on the camera as he boarded the ferry and realised something was going for him. The crew had pre-arranged for all passengers to sing Happy Birthday on threat of walking the plank - maritime tradition!
Bob B - 27, November, 2011 (10:30)

Senior at Large

That is indeed a vexed question. The arrangement I have with my advisor is that as the cash componet grows to $5,000 as dransactions are made in an on going basis, we withdraw it and lodge it in a Term Deposit. So rather than it being reinvested at risk, it is in a term deposit making something. That something is no where what the fund makes in average to good times but much better than going backwards.
Senior at Large - 27, November, 2011 (10:19)

What can you do when your super is in a so-called “balanced fund”, the default option designed for modest growth without the so-called risky investments? The fund takes a hit in the GFC and three years later has not recovered to the level when you put your money in. You are stuck. If you pull the money out you have to wear the losses. The alternative to leave it sitting there opens you to more losses as the markets are not showing any signs of improvement soon. Much as I hate it, showing patience and leaving the money sitting there seems to be the better choice, but it is still a gamble.

Meanwhile the fund takes out its monthly cut as an admin fee. This is a percentage of my money and happens regardless of performance. Why can’t funds base their fees on the performance of the fund so they would have an incentive to be better managers?
Helen - 27, November, 2011 (8:12)

I just lost the rest of my message!!!~! I'll have to come back later -...
Helen - 27, November, 2011 (8:08)

As for Super, One of my sons decided to invest in houses for his retirement & he now has 5. Being a builder he moves quickly restoring old 1800's houses & rents them out & gets a high return from tennants who can afford a bit more. There is one that has become a "retreat" in Windsor. Built in teh 1820s, it's in very high demand.

We had super & have it safely now in cash A/C's. Our advisor moves it around to where the int is the best. We are getting just over 5% at the moment. Perhaps not as good as when it is in the market place (but a lot safer)just now. He doesn't predict improvement for quite a while. A good advisor is really worth his salt & we have a very good indep one who works with AMP customers. Contd -
Helen - 27, November, 2011 (8:07)

The sun is shining big time! I could sing the song" Oh What A Beautiful Morning", because it is! It's still very moist in parts around here though, especially the wet lands O/side Windsor.
Lorikeet - 27, November, 2011 (6:46)

Here is some interesting reading on "Climate Change".

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=23368
Stephen - 26, November, 2011 (20:24)

Tony Ioomi is amongst the best, fantastic riffs.
Helen - 26, November, 2011 (15:13)

I just came back from watching my fav band "Simply Bushed" do an in-store back to back with Shannon Noll. They had a big crowd & personally I thought they were heaps beter than SN.

He only sang three songs in his hr & they sang for the whole hr & people bought heaps. There was only Paul & Chris & their drummer playing a funny looking drum he sat on with a kick & mostly used his hands. The audience loved them. After signing CDs, they had to shoot off to play for another 4 hrs on the other side of town!.

They are often in Q, if they are near you, check them out, such a good live band. Not many out there who can actually "entertain" like them.

I've got the GK (2 & 6rs, so am snapping a mo to catch up with the goss...
Lorikeet - 26, November, 2011 (10:12)

Some excellent points have been made by a few people regarding employment.

With indirect taxation on the rise, more and higher bills arriving every week, and rising costs for food and other goods, more people are seeking full-time work, especially those on low incomes.

The NSA is quite correct in showing a high level of concern for those on low and fixed incomes.
Lorikeet - 26, November, 2011 (10:04)

WEG:

Yes, I have certainly taken the time to consider what you said about superannuation when we discussed it before.

Looking at the performance over the last 10 years of the Industry Super Fund a small portion of my funds are in, things seem to be fairly crook in that sector.

A person cannot make a reasonable return on anything other than a High Risk investment. Perhaps the television advertising is deliberately encouraging people to take higher risks to build their asset base.

I think the idea of My Super and the other "My" terminology is about taking financial responsibility for yourself. Losses? Hard luck!
Lorikeet - 26, November, 2011 (9:57)

There are many things that influence political decisions, including:

1. Email and letters from both supporters and non-supporters, regardless of any political affiliation. (Most people don't belong to a political party).

2. The results of polls.

3. The numbers game occurring within parties.

4. Other factors we kept in the dark about.
Kay Kelly - 26, November, 2011 (9:45)

WEG & Badger

I don't think one can deny the achievements of the union movement up until more modern times. Now working arrangements are more complicated and many union achievements are cemented within legislation. Good for the workers.

I find it amusing that these days workers are fighting for full-time employment. I remember about 40 years ago, we female workers were fighting for more part-time employment/flexible working arrangements/job share etc to enable us to work and care for our children. A lot of that has now been achieved.

As for job security - no job can be guaranteed - even in the public service. Plus you have to be flexible enough to move between work types. During my work career, I worked in at least 8 entirely different work areas from medical coding to HRM/IR to corporate services generally to national park management to wildlife management. It did require much on-the-job training and external study.
WEG - 26, November, 2011 (8:58)

Badger (0.04)

I agree with your views re job guarantees. To add a point though, I understand the thrust by the Unions (Ged Kearney) re job security is more about the high usage of Part Time and Casual labour, as distinct from Full Time employment.
The employer may use this type of labour for reasons of flexibility, especially during any restructures. I’ve done this myself many times in the past and this strategy effectively protects the jobs of your full time employees.
WEG - 26, November, 2011 (8:44)

Lorikeet (7.04)

An interesting point re superannuation.

That ‘commercial’ is run by the minnows of superannuation. It’s their cooperative marketing ploy and has Labor ideology / support behind it. Whist they bang on about "lower fees , no commissions" they don’t elaborate on the investment rate dependencies. We all know returns on Superannuation has hit rock bottom over the last 4 years.

They don’t tell you that some of their high flying funds fell dramatically from grace because of illiquid asset (unlisted trusts etc) post GFC.

Other sectors do provide better returns than this segment.
Bob B - 26, November, 2011 (8:24)

Lorikeet

Your 'hold up the mirror' technique is too shallow to be accepted by low IQers even!!! I am not waiting in anticiption for the next installment of doom and gloom.
Kay Kelly - 26, November, 2011 (8:22)

We went to the Dolly Parton concert here in Brisbane last night. Just love Dolly! The Entertainment Centre was at capacity, fans ranging in age from young teens to those who looked as though they were in the 70 - 80 years age group. What a night! No support act - she performed all night - and she is 65!! Looked absolutely fantastic, but with lots of quips re how expensive it is to look like she does!! She has a superb voice - on many occasions unaccompanied - pitch perfect - very strong, sweet voice - even better than on CD! She also played about a dozen musical instruments - very talented. Brought the house down with 'Working 9 to 5'!!! She sure could teach these modern singers and performers a thing or two!!!
Bob B - 26, November, 2011 (8:20)

Kay

Your point is taken. I also believe DLP antics have no real influence on Lib decisions.

Now off to Brisbane for a surprise 70th birthday party for a friend. He has been arranged to get onto a ferry at South Bank in tow of his son: a ferry that will be full of well wishers with ballons that hide inside until he is aboard. Then off to a park for the festivity. Should be a hoot.
Kay Kelly - 26, November, 2011 (8:10)

Re Malcolm Turnbull. I do know that Lorikeet is correct in that the LNP/Liberal Party was inundated with emails, phone calls etc from LNP/Liberal Party members and supporters demanding that Turnbull be prevented from pursuing his path of supporting Kevin Rudd's ETS.

At the time I was in discussion with someone associated with the LNP, and she said that the LNP had never seen anything like it! The outcry from members and supporters was unprecedented. I guess that in part helped prompt the push for a new Leader whose views on the ETS were more in line with the views of members/supporters. I can't see that the DLP would influence the Liberal Party, but members/supporters certainly did.
Lorikeet - 26, November, 2011 (7:07)

Badger:

I think our fates in the workplace are largely controlled by corporates, with wages that don't keep pace with inflation, retrograde working conditions, and more limited access to full time work. A glut of employees and concomitant low levels of union membership help keep big employers in the driver's seat.
Lorikeet - 26, November, 2011 (7:04)

Bob B:

You are free to believe anything you want. You seem to have a jaundiced view of pretty much anything I say. I thought the concept of using time as a currency was interesting.

All:

SUPERANNUATION

I am fairly concerned about an ad for superannuation I have seen several times recently. It says that in a lifetime you could end up with $350,000. Even at the current average wage of $58,000 with an employee working for 50 years (20-70), that amount of money would barely cover the employer’s life time contributions at the current rate (not 12%), let alone earn any money, unless pay rates rose very little or even dropped.

DICK SMITH

He has started up a business selling Australian manufactured foods, such as olives, olive oil, honey, tomato sauce etc.

He showed 3 jars of Chinese manufactured asparagus which had a fungus growing on it, and human hair and little flies inside the jars.
Badger - 26, November, 2011 (0:04)

Johnny Marr for me.

I disagree with the views that workers would be unfairly disempowered without the backing of unions. Employment laws are very strong now and comparisons with the 19th century, when such laws didn't exist, seem irrelevant. Most employees these days do not enjoy a high degree of job security - our fates in the workplace are inextricably linked to the fates of our employers, but there are very strong laws protecting us from unfair dismissal. I fail to see why Qantas employees should receive guarantees that their employer will not restructure its business to remain viable.
Bob B - 25, November, 2011 (21:22)

Lorikeet

Your 20:44, your point is.... Am I supposed to believe that this is way we are headed?

Its an advert for a film I have no yen to see.
Bob B - 25, November, 2011 (21:19)

Lorikeet

Your 20:23 is a very jaundiced view of what happened. Tony won by one vote and, I think, being such a close call demutes your harsh view.

A lot more than mere emails were at play.
Lorikeet - 25, November, 2011 (20:44)

(continued)

People were left dead in the street after their time had expired or was stolen.

Once you hit age 25, you had a continuing fight against time to stay alive, but you didn't age. Banks lent you time at interest rates around 30-40%. Ghettoes were filled with people barely surviving.

When you went through a tollway, you had to pay in days or months. To get into rich areas cost more.

Some crooks had racked up 100 years of time credits, and in a safe, the richest man was storing 1,000,000 years inside an electronic device.
Lorikeet - 25, November, 2011 (20:44)

Believe it or not, it's true. Politics is a numbers game, as we saw yesterday in the parliament.

I went to see a movie in which you paid for everything using time. You had a digital display in your forearm which showed how many days/months/years you had earned (or stolen). On the inside of your wrist, you had a microchip which you used to pay your bills, get your wages, or on a bad day, had someone else steal your time credit.
Robyn - 25, November, 2011 (20:33)

I find it hard to believe they would turf their Leader just because they got a bunch of emails.
Lorikeet - 25, November, 2011 (20:23)

Lots of people applied pressure to the Coalition to get rid of him. Anybody can email or write to politicians at any time.

The DLP knew that Malcolm Turnbull was a merchant banker who could make money from the Carbon Trading Scheme that he said he would support.

Tony Abbott was against it. That's why he got to lead the party. The Australian people do not want a Carbon Tax and the Coalition won't support it at all. They will support a Carbon Trading Scheme when ALL other countries have signed up to participate (which will probably be never).

If you really understood the agendas of Labor/Greens, you would never vote for them again.
Robyn - 25, November, 2011 (20:00)

Lorikeet:

What did you do to get Malcolm Turnbull tipped out? What did the DLP have to do with it?
Sue Do-Nim - 25, November, 2011 (19:58)

Lorikeet:
May I call you Lozza?...It's a very quiet Friday night ...no one's listening...
So just between us girls..how old are you?
Lorikeet - 25, November, 2011 (19:25)

Fourth Son:

WEG and Sue-Do-Nim are not one and the same. WEG is much more polite, as well as more politically and economically aware.

WEG is a man, possibly in his 60s, and Sue-Do-Nim is most likely a woman.

Yes, I think there will be nothing but trouble with Peter Slipper in the hot seat, and plenty of anger being dealt in his direction.

Tony Abbott is unlikely to be replaced any time soon because he doesn't support a Tax on Air or an Air Trading Scheme. If it were not for this outstanding political trait, the Australian public would mostly be giving him the thumbs down.

I don't think Liberals would dare to try to put Malcolm Turnbull back in the leadership role after thousands of us had him tipped out of it a while back.
Robyn - 25, November, 2011 (17:49)

Kay,

I'm afraid I wasn't very clear. I wasn't saying you said he is great, I was expressing my own view.

ETS,

Have not long returned from a most unsuccessful Xmas shopping excursion. The wine and nibblies are going down well right now. Friday nights are good even when no longer working.
Laurakeet - 25, November, 2011 (17:37)

My husband and I (I sound like the Queen!) are about to enjoy a glass of wine with some friends. We have some warm finger food to go with it and we are all feeling very relaxed indeed. It isn’t a wine bar ETS but it is virtually one so I will call it the virtual bar. Lorikeet, I know you don’t drink but please have a lemon lime and bitters with your son and enjoy.

Cheers my friends and have a good evening. Got to go now…
ETS - 25, November, 2011 (17:02)

Well friends it is almost time to enter the NSA blog virtual wine bar for that very welcome Friday evening pairing of vino and nibbles. It's been wet today where I am so I will sit somewhere warm and look out over a wet harbour as the workforce goes home for the weekend.

Enjoy your drinks and maybe there will be a guitar hero or a politician busking in the corner somewhere.

Cheers!
Kay Kelly - 25, November, 2011 (16:51)

Robyn

Re your 8:53 posting. I don't believe I have ever said Tony Abbott was a 'great' politician. I am just saying his tactics have been very effective, although, as I keep saying, they are now becoming counter-productive. I understand from the polls that a very large proportion of voters find Abbott a bit 'stomach turning' - especially women. So you are certainly not alone there! My main reservations about him come from my fear that he cannot divorce his religion from his political decisions, plus he doesn't exactly seem a genius with figures! As I said to Helen, by and large I tend not to get too wrapped up in personalities. Effectiveness is what matters. Integrity is also very important to me, but then again they are all politicians.....!
Sue Do-Nim - 25, November, 2011 (16:49)

Ho Hum..

73 Comments without a deletion.

I'm off to Andrew Bartlett's site for a while to see what you know who is up to.
Kate - 25, November, 2011 (15:56)

I also like Tommy Emmanuel, but my all time favourite guitarist has always been hank Marvin of the Shadows. I was only sixteen when I heard him play Tonight, from West Side Story and you could have heard a pin drop in the theatre.
Son of Lorikeet - 25, November, 2011 (15:55)

I think Slipper will stuff up big time next year. The Opposition will find the dirt on him, whatever it is and they will use it against him. He will embarrass the Government and their ratings will go south because people will remember they ditched a good man to get Slipper. Best to cut the losses now and give Slipper the boot.

ETS, I did read your comment about Tommy Emmanuel. Everyone points to him whenever the Australians are discussed. Is there no other Aussie hero?
Kay Kelly - 25, November, 2011 (15:54)

Lorikeet

Re your comment at 9:48: "There are definitely some communists in the union movement...."

How do you know? Are they members of the Communist Party? (I assume it still exists in Australia) Left Wing does not equal Communist. Plus, there are some Right Wing unions.

I support ES's comments about unions. Without the union movement, workers just wouldn't have a chance! I fully support a strong (but not dominating) union movement.
Alan Cooper - 25, November, 2011 (15:19)

Among a lot of the great guitarists would have to be Mark Knoeffler, Richie Blackmore, Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page, Derek Trucks,Sonny Landreth, Eric Clapton, Warren Haynes, Keith Richards, Angus and Malcolm Young, Bruce Springsteen and Susan Tedeschi, to name but a few. There are a lot of very good guitarists but getting to great has to be that little bit harder. I have seen all of these live on stage, and they really are very good.
Kay Kelly - 25, November, 2011 (15:13)

ETS

I agree completely with your assessment! And yes, this move does remind one of the very opportunistic Colston and Gair manoeuvres!

And yes, timing is everything. Abbott is generally a real turn-off to a large number of voters. A couple more years of a successful, more inclusive government could take all the oxygen away from Abbott. I think even us (usually) Lib voters are fed up with the negativity, and would like to see an Opposition and Opposition Leader they could imagine leading the country with reasonable policies.
Kay Kelly - 25, November, 2011 (15:03)

(cont.)

However, I think it is now time for the Opposition to use a different strategy. The 'attack dog' worked well, but that approach has become counter-productive. I think it is time for a less aggressive stance, using one's brains instead of brawn. Turnbull could do that job, but I doubt the Libs will bite the bullet and change leaders - makes them look too much like Labor. But if Gillard continues to gain in the polls, the Libs may have to rethink.

I will say there are a couple of politicians that make me annoyed as soon as I set eyes on them, so I am not totally detached. Bob Brown and Steven Conroy leave me cold!
ETS - 25, November, 2011 (15:03)

SoL, you should read down the blog a bit. Your mum and I actually agree on Tommy Emmanuel. Agreement does not happen often but it does on the big issues like that one.

Kay, I agree it was a clever move and gives the Government some breathing space. We will have to wait and see if the public thinks the Government was too clever by half. Whitlam bombed badly with Gair and Mal Colston did not do Howard’s image any favours.

I still think the Libs will win the next election but time is the crucial element. An election now would be a landslide like NSW was and Qld will be next year (next year Lorikeet, not 2011). An election in 2013 after two more years of more inclusive government (excluding the Opposition of course) might see a much closer result.

Abott as PM might even turn enough people off for him to be a one termer himself.
Kay Kelly - 25, November, 2011 (14:52)

Helen

I guess I tend to be a lot more detached from the personalities. I just look at the results they achieve - just like one does at work (as a manager). Like it or not, Abbott did keep pressure on the government. I guess if you are a strong supporter of the government, you would find that annoying! My detachment allows me to congratulate Julia on her brilliant manoeuvre getting poor of Harry Jenkins to quit as Speaker, and replace him with the only Coalition member that would put his own greed above the Party to become Speaker. I am definitely not a government/Gillard supporter, but I can appreciate the clever move.
Son of Lorikeet - 25, November, 2011 (14:51)

WEG Do-Nim 9:33. Thank you for your comment. I’ve rechecked yesterday’s posts and can’t see anything from me remotely resembling your description. I do try to be clear and concise as I have been in all my messages. Perhaps you read too much of yourself in other comments. It is not good to be too self-absorbed.

Guitar heroes - Clapton of course from overseas. What about some Aussies? Does Mossie rate with anyone?
Sue Do-Nim - 25, November, 2011 (14:04)

Graham Richardson (Richo), made an interesting point this morning on talkback radio.

In his opinion all yesterday’s manoeuvring and politicking etc. won’t change the fact that Mr.Abbott will be P.M. after the next election.

I don’t know about that. Obviously the Libs. will win in a landslide but I think Mr.Abbott might not be at the helm.
Robyn - 25, November, 2011 (12:21)

ES,

Yes and Alan (10:05) has conveniently provided us with a case in point. All Labor politicians tarred with the same brush! No thoughtful discerning, just prejudice speaking!
Jim - 25, November, 2011 (10:34)

Great guitarists - Mark Knopfler and Tommy Emmanuel; however depending on your age group - Arthur "Guitar Boogie" Smith playing "Guitar Boogie." (I think this is 1940's or early 1950's; but very good.
Mary Anne - 25, November, 2011 (10:26)

Hasn't anyone thought of carlos Santana!! Why? because he has stood the test of time, changed his style to appeal to the industry trends and always comes up with a winner. He makes that guitar talk!! Seriously why nominate a person who backed out soo early in life, who knows if he would have lasted the length of time.
ES - 25, November, 2011 (10:09)

Robin,
I agree that my statement is indeed pretty broard and sweeping and I also agree that indeed there are decent, honest people about - I was just trying to make a point about why things happen - I guess in the same sweeping, generalised way that many people brand or slander people and events in an unresearched or prejudicial manner.
Alan - 25, November, 2011 (10:05)

Jimi Hendrix totally rules - always was and will always be the BEST guitarist ever.

Similarly, as everyone else does here, JuliaR Gillard is the worst ever PM this country has ever seen. One sorry saga after another will be the memory.ALP slippery RATS the lot of 'em.

Flush all 'em wasters down the toilet someone pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeze.
Helen - 25, November, 2011 (10:00)

You are right ES. I do think that unions can get a bit carried away though (if they get too powerful). some of their leaders are not much diff than the pollies.

Qantas showed us that all sides can be wrong at the same time. It was just a power struggle & the losers were the gen public.

The losers in the future will be Qantas when the pub vote with their feet. I for one will never travel Q again - Ever. That's MY stand.

If I don't like it, I won't watch, listen or vote, buy from, support or use! . I am only one person but somehow my miniscule stand seems to work & is My Democracy!...
Helen - 25, November, 2011 (9:52)

Kay - I had no opinion either way in the beginning re Abbott. As I got to know this sun morn Christ man better I guess I saw him for what he is. He, Hocking, Green & Bishop & Turnbull (ugggh!). Ambitious beyong belief & will dig up any filth to get what they want. Is this "Leader quality", I don't pers think so!

The other side copped it all & our PM & the gov worked around the clock to prove that the Gov could do it (& they did) & finished with a job well done (& STILL no harm to any of US!).

If Abbott was truly boasting re having Xmas in the Lodge, then another rasberry to him as MY present for Xmas...
Robyn - 25, November, 2011 (9:48)

ES,

Having re-read your comment (which I still think is great) I take back my "All so true". While I agree with your statement "the voting public is fed up with deceitful, ambitious politicians" I would not put all pollies into that category. I am impressed with quite a few of our current representatives, especially the independents Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott and feel pleased with what our current government has achieved to date. In my area Janelle Saffin is an outstanding Labor MP for Page but the Labor MP for Richmond, Justine Elliott, appears to be missing in action. As in all work areas there is the good and the bad and the voting public can tend to generalize based on those who get the most media attention.
Lorikeet - 25, November, 2011 (9:48)

ES:

There are definitely some communists in the union movement, but hopefully most of the people are not.
Lorikeet - 25, November, 2011 (9:45)

That's right, son. When Peter Dutton almost lost his seat to a Labor school teacher in the federal electorate of Dickson, he applied for pre-selection in a snobbish location somewhere down near the Gold Coast.

When he failed and most people thought Kevin Rudd was on the nose, he spent quite a lot $500,000 on campaign advertising in Dickson, but he needn't have bothered.

With a dreadful education system in place, and Queensland only able to beat the NT on NAPLAN, he had no problem easily winning the seat again. He is fairly clean cut and friendly, with no scandalous past.

Do you live in his electorate?
Sue Do-Nim - 25, November, 2011 (9:33)

Son of a Lorikeet: 7:29

Good comment.

Isn’t it a lot easier on this Blog to be clear and concise?

All that time, hard work and effort you went to yesterday posting your tongue in cheek sarcastic witticisms hoping to evoke a bit of moral indignation from the hoi poloi, didn’t work did it?

It all went straight through to the keeper… Pity that.
ETS - 25, November, 2011 (9:07)

Here is an interesting theory. Political expediency made Peter Slipper the Speaker. It reminds me of the expediency of Howard’s support for Labor’s Mal Colston in the Senate back in the 1990s which gave Howard the numbers in the Senate. Going way back to pre-history there was the expediency of Whitlam’s bribe to the DLP’s Vince Gair to get him out of the Senate and give Labor the numbers.

Slipper, Colston, Gair… all Queenslanders… is there something in the Qld political DNA that makes them predisposed to this sort of arrangement?
Robyn - 25, November, 2011 (8:53)

ES,

Just love your comment at (8:29). All so true!

Kay,

Tony Abbott turns my stomach. He may have influenced with his extreme negativity to date but he is far from a "great" politician. He's an ambitious, dangerous man. I sincerely hope the LNP does turf him before he gets to be PM. Heard on ABC Lateline last night that this time last year, at the pollies annual Xmas shindig, he was boasting that he would be inviting everyone to the Lodge for Xmas drinks with him this year. Ha ha, to the silly twit!
Bob B - 25, November, 2011 (8:37)

Helen

Political opportunism will provide only a short term benefit in my view. To put Slipper in as Speaker was wrong as he appears to be unsuited for the task. He will be there until the next election at most. It is a interesting situation that might force me to 'observe' by watching some TV of Parliament; a thing I rarely do.

Off now to a funeral for a friend - he ignored advice to undergo a stress test following chest pain so he could go on holiday and had a heart attack in China. THee is a sound message there.
ES - 25, November, 2011 (8:32)

Great guitarists? I agree with Mark Knopfler and Tommy Emmanual. Susie Quatro is the only female guitarist I can think of - like her but wouldn't call her one of the greats!
ES - 25, November, 2011 (8:29)

Amuses me when people equate "union movement" with "communism" (ALPs leadership plans for Shorten)- without unions 10 year old children and blind ponies would still be in the coal mines of the world, and nurses would still be drinking their patients urineto test for diabetes. The two existing genuine communist states in existance are North Korea and China. The world is cosying up to China and look at how scary North Korea is to the would, begs the question how much do people really know about communism anyway? Most politicians just dont get "it" - the political situation in Australia - as in several European countries, comes about because the voting public is fed up with deceitful, ambitious, politicians with no leadership, statesmanship qualities who are so busy playing politics they forget they are supposed to be managing our country on our behalf - not just for themselves!
Kay Kelly - 25, November, 2011 (8:21)

Bob B.

I agree the constant negativity has become very annoying. I also agree it is time for him to go (unless he does a complete turnaround and becomes more positive - not likely!!). But I was just saying that we should give credit where credit is due. All commentators over the past year or so of the Gillard government agree he has successfully applied constant pressure on the government - and has achieved some back-downs. After the Rudd/Turnbull cosiness, his attacking style was effective. It is just that maybe now is a time for a change in tactics or Leader.
ETS - 25, November, 2011 (8:19)

Yesterday’s fun and games in Parliament were clever tactics by the Government to get an additional vote. It gives them a bit more room to move and a clear short term advantage and probably shoots down any more talk of an early election. Bad luck for Harry Jenkins who was an excellent Speaker in a tough job but it shows Labor can be just as ruthless as the coalition when it comes to Parliamentary tactics.

Abbott will have to rethink his tactics. Disrupting Question Time with daily censure motions is becoming tedious and the Government responses are getting better. He is expected to oppose – that is his job – but it should be constructive opposition with something better to offer. Senseless negativity and petty obstruction are not part of his job and will work against him.

A good month for Labor but let’s not kid ourselves about who is still the frontrunner for the 2013 election.
Robyn - 25, November, 2011 (8:08)

If anyone lives on the Far North Coast NSW, or comes this way for a holiday, get yourself along to the Bilinudgel pub on a Sunday afternoon. Musos come from everywhere to jam and turn on really great music. The pub itself is one of our precious old relics, unchanged from yesteryear and even has a tennis court and huge grassed area that the grand kids love to run around in. Truly great atmosphere!
Bob B - 25, November, 2011 (8:07)

Kay

I agree an opposition opposes but to say no at every turn becomes a bit boring and is extremely negative. Sometimes it doesn't hurt to support a good one put up by Labor or modify it slightly to make it better. But to say just no because you can does you no good in the end. I think Abbott's time has run out primarily because of this. We need to see a spark of what the future might be like if they win.
Kay Kelly - 25, November, 2011 (7:56)

Helen

Gosh - you really don't like poor old Tony Abbott, do you?

He has done a great job to date putting pressure on the government! So, his negativity is becoming very tiresome, and maybe it is time he was replaced! And yes, some policies would be good, but Oppositions usually don't release policies until the election is called. But at least give him some credit for what he has done to date - an Opposition OPPOSES.
Kay Kelly - 25, November, 2011 (7:50)

(cont.)

He was opposed to the formation of the LNP in Queensland, and you can see the problems associated with that merger. But on the State scene, it appeared the only way a Labor government might be defeated. No doubt his opposition to the merger created a lot of bad blood, but I think most people see he is too good a politician NOT to have in Parliament. Certainly Peter Slipper will be no loss to the LNP or the Parliament - he is now in a position to significantly feather his nest financially. I sincerely hope Mal Brough is successfully elected in the seat of Fisher. I believe he has a great future.
Kay Kelly - 25, November, 2011 (7:40)

I for one was very disappointed when Mal Brough lost his seat in the 2007 Rudd landslide. I thought he was one of the better performers in the Howard government, and I admired his courage in taking on 'The Intervention'. That was a program that had many detractors (as well as supporters) and was a tough sell. And of course, like most things, had its pros and cons. But I thought he did an excellent job and he was a loss to the political scene.
Helen - 25, November, 2011 (7:31)

Good morning to you all -
It's been a tough yr in politics & amazing how it all turned out. Personally I think this hung parliament has made everyone in gov do the right thing & work hard, (even just to prove themselves).

What started as a cocky Abbott with destroy on his mind, ended with success from the Gov & egg on the opp L's dial.

We will be the winners here in my op & Abbott will spend the holls wondering where he went wrong (at least I hope he wil).
One day the Libs might even get back to having policies once again. At the moment they are a terrible alternative... (ps still raining!)
Son of Lorikeet - 25, November, 2011 (7:29)

I don't think Peter Dutton has what it takes to be PM. I remember a couple of years ago he was complaining he didn't have a safe seat and could not switch to a neighbouring seat. He was reelected when Labor went on the nose but a lot of people don't forget.
Lorikeet - 25, November, 2011 (7:20)

I saw Mal Brough on television last night. If he wants to throw his hat back into the ring, he will need to lose his racial bias. Even then, if Liberals and Democratic Labor Party don't want him, he will probably have to ask Christian Democrats or Family First. Even then his reception would be uncertain.
Sue Do-Nim - 25, November, 2011 (7:17)

What about Mark Knoffler…Dire Straits

Lindsey Buckingham..Fleetwood Mac, who plays without a plectrum (pick)…quite unusual

Don Felder..The Eagles ,who wrote the music to “Hotel California”.

Elvis Presley…….Just Joking!
Laurakeet - 25, November, 2011 (6:47)

I loved (figuratively, not literally) Clapton, Hendrix, Marvin and many others. I would also throw Brian May from Queen into the mix.

Why are the guitar heroes all male so far. Where are the women? Having said that I don’t have any names to put forward but there must be some??

ETS, I’ve also seen the Wizard and Oz. I agree with your assessment. Great guitar work and also terrific on the keyboard.
Laurakeet - 25, November, 2011 (6:41)

It is really not a bad topic this week: Guitar heroes and political leaders.

Without wanting to be provocative (honestly), I don’t think rejection by the DLP is a black mark against Mal Brough for the coalition. Can any of our Queenslanders tell this southerner if Brough is even interested in resuming his Parliamentary career? I don’t recall any media down here about him recently but we are two years out from a poll.

Similarly I don’t know if Stephen Smith really wants the top job but I assume he would. Giving up Foreign Affairs for Defence was part of the dealing to get Rudd back into the Cabinet. You could spin it that he did it for the Party. But with Labor’s prospects at the moment he would be better off waiting for the outcome of the election, let someone else be Opposition Leader, then pick up the leadership further down the track. Worked for Abbott so far.
Chris M - 25, November, 2011 (6:36)

Eric Clapton for me . I am a big fan .
He is capable of changing mode from Rock to Blues to Jazz to Country , but mostly a true Blues Guitarist who has survived the rat race and come out the other side a better person .His charity work is unsurpassed for those in need , but never a mention from him of a reward.He just gets on with it .
Buy a copy of his Guitar Festival DVD and you will appreciate his work .
"Clapton is God " as was written on a Wall in the UK in the 70s.
Jimi Taylor - 25, November, 2011 (6:32)

Without a doubt, Jimi Hendrix was the greatest guitarist who ever lived. Innovative and with a great ear for music he is just magic to listen to! Incidentally, I must point out that he did not die of a drug overdose, but asphyxiation due to the inhalation of vomit. Ask our current Senator Bob Brown as he was the doctor present at the time in the hospital in London when Hendrix was brought in. Purple Haze!!!!
Bob S - 25, November, 2011 (0:57)

Keith Richards is still a little devil at heart just like quite a lot of us still are. He's my guitar hero
Terrance - 24, November, 2011 (23:46)

the best guitarist ever would have to HANK B MARVIN
his input towards the success of the Shadows cannot be equalized.
"SACHA" his own number one of 1969 is still the one in my head and always will be.
Robyn - 24, November, 2011 (21:05)

Just had to break for an hour to watch the last episode of "The Slap". What a powerful series that has been!

On the political subject that seems to have been chosen as second topic, just want to say that Penny Wong is the pick of the ALP bunch for me. Love her intelligence and calm, considered approach to matters. Also like Stephen Smith and think he has performed well. I have little time for Jenny Macklin and thought she was weak when she was Deputy Opposition Leader. My hunch is there will be no change of leaders in either party. I'm hoping Julia Gillard's popularity will climb from here in and Tony Abbott's will continue to go downhill.
Lorikeet - 24, November, 2011 (19:49)

WEG:

Yes, Paul Keating was also skinny with dark hair and a weak chin. I didn't think he would ever be PM either.

Whitlam used to have the reputation of worst PM Australia had ever known, but I think Keating did the country more damage in terms of over-empowering the UN.

I made a mistake previously. The Labor MP who said he would quit if another PM took over was Perrett.

I am told that Labor wants to pass legislation without having to depend on Green MP Adam Bandt in the lower house.

I saw a little more footage of Harry Jenkins' final address as Speaker, the part where his voice falters and he's close to tears.

I know he gets very fed up with politicians on both sides of the parliament, but I feel certain the situation has been deliberately orchestrated by Labor. The nomination of Peter Slipper has dealt the Opposition a very swift kick in the teeth.
Robyn - 24, November, 2011 (19:33)

It could well be argued that Jimi Hendrix was "the greatest" and Eric Clapton and Wes Montgomery also played a mean guitar. Some of my most favourite music does not centre on how great the guitarist is - I go for the overall sound and content. Adore Pink Floyd, Leonard Cohen, PJ Harvey, Violent Femmes, Big Brovas, Gotan Project, Pink Martinis, Gypsy Kings, Sinead O'Connor - the list goes on and on really but the first 2 are my specials. Great Oz band I came across recently was Rapskallion. They turn on a great show as well as great music. Also love the Blues and Classical music so my taste is pretty all round.
WEG - 24, November, 2011 (17:47)

Did you know Ross Greenwood (2GB – Money News -Sydney) was delivered into this world by Jenkin’s father?
Quote “Peter Dutton is being groomed for the party leadership. (He doesn't look like a PM to me. He also has a weak chin.)” – does anyone think he’s got the same facial features of Keating? – Have another look.
Sue Do-Nim - 24, November, 2011 (17:42)

This might be a bit cryptic but.....

Well done everyone..so far.
Lorikeet - 24, November, 2011 (17:35)

Labor wants Bill Shorten in the PM's seat because he is a communist from the union movement. He scrubs up well and is also well spoken.

I would prefer to see Jenny Macklin in the leadership position, but once again, she probably doesn't have what it takes to do battle with everybody, every day.
Lorikeet - 24, November, 2011 (17:31)

I agree that Stephen Smith has managed the Defence portfolio better than expected, but he certainly isn't PM material. Quiet achievers never get to run the nation.

I think Liberals will keep Tony Abbott in the party leadership because he is opposed to a Carbon Tax. Malcolm Turnbull lost the leadership because he is a merchant banker highly interested in profitting from a Carbon Trading Scheme. This is grossly unpopular with around 70% of Australians.

If they decide to replace Abbott, my money is on Joe Hockey, but I have also received a heads-up that Peter Dutton is being groomed for the party leadership. (He doesn't look like a PM to me. He also has a weak chin.)
WEG - 24, November, 2011 (17:27)

Bill Shorten is my bet, but not the best pick (in my opinion).
Lorikeet - 24, November, 2011 (17:24)

WEG:

Yes, I was fairly annoyed when Kevin Rudd got Stephen Smith's portfolio. Stephen Smith doesn't have the look of a PM (but I think he is cute anyway).
Lorikeet - 24, November, 2011 (17:21)

Mal Brough has no hope of leading anyone to victory. The DLP even rejected him for membership. When I was asked about him, I said: "No, thank you."

If he does what Brisbane Lord Mayor Campbell Newman is doing and conducts a Presidential style election campaign from outside the parliament, that's one way he could become PM. I don't think he is very popular because he sank the boot into aborigines in the Northern Territory. I'd give that idea the thumbs down.

I think the interesting Jenkins/Slipper scenario came about because Labor wants to elevate Bill Shorten to the party leadership, and Jarrett has already said he will quit the parliament if another PM is replaced.
WEG - 24, November, 2011 (17:18)

Just pass this by Bob B, Kay & ETS: – Post last election, Smith rolled over and gave his senior role as Foreign Minister to Rudd without a whimper. Done this reflect a strong individual, or a potential Leader?
Bob B - 24, November, 2011 (17:02)

Kay & ETS

Helen, your outline of Tony and Malcolm is spot on. Tony had initial potential but has lost the batton gradually. Malcolm would be a good back-up man to have until he learns the skills of politics that has already been learned by Mal Brough.

Julia has kicked some goals recently that would sustain her leadership within the Labor party not withstanding the avoidance of the disruption of another change of leader. That might change though at any time dependent upon circumstances. Smith is my choice if a fall occurs. He has managed the difficult Defence portfolio with aplomb.
Kay Kelly - 24, November, 2011 (16:55)

Bob (cont.)

So the Libs have a real dilemma as I see it re who to replace Tony Abbott with. I can't think of any other Lib that might be a good choice. Joe Hockey is very disappointing, although, like Kim Beasley was, a nice guy. Maybe at this point they have to go back to Malcolm Turnbull. Maybe he has learnt from his mistakes as leader (the Godwin Grech affair etc). He will need to go softly, softly on an ETS, though, if Lib voters are to fully support him.
weg - 24, November, 2011 (16:55)

Politics is brutal. Someone stuck the ‘slipper’ into poor old Jenkins. He ‘gave up’ a pay level worth $107,000 extra per year (plus additional perks) just because he’s missing his pals, and could not attend the Xmas party. Pull the other one.
Good luck to PM Gillard for the strategy as she needs all the help she can muster short term.
ETS - 24, November, 2011 (16:50)

Stephen Smith and Mal Brough are both impressive. Howard handed Brough a huge task with the NT Intervention but, whatever you think of the politics behind it, Brough managed a tough job well. Bad luck that he lost his seat in the Ruddslide. Smith similarly appears to be a hard working effective Minister who has not been tainted by the problems of the Government, despite having the difficult Defence portfolio in a hung Parliament.

So the current leaders will be there until the next election. Labor cannot afford the electoral backlash of dumping Gillard for anyone, and who would really want the job in the present circumstances? Well, Kevin possibly but a comeback is still a long way off. Similarly despite the polls, the Opposition would lose credibility if they ditched Abbott now after the hero worship of the past two years. So Julia V Tony for the next two years…

But I could change my mind completely tomorrow.
Kay Kelly - 24, November, 2011 (16:48)

Bob B.

I think Tony Abbott did very well at the last election, and he has certainly taken the fight up to the government very effectively since then. However, that said, he hasn't developed as a leader and his constant negativity is becoming quite a problem. It is time the Libs had a leader that looks like he/she could be PM. Malcolm Turnbull presents well, is charming when he wants to be, and comes across as an intelligent 'little l' Liberal. However he didn't impress as Lib leader, and his strong support for an ETS is out of sync with the majority of Liberal supporters.
ETS - 24, November, 2011 (16:39)

I’ll start by agreeing with Lorikeet. Tommy Emmanuel is a great guitarist. I can’t pick one individual because there are too many to choose from but I suspect given our senior status we will generally look at guitarists from the 20th Century, although Bob was refreshing in his choice of Scott Cameron. I haven’t heard of Scott until now but I don’t get out all that much.

There is a group called the Wizard and Oz who play the pub/club round (despite the corny name they are excellent musos). The Wizard is a keyboard virtuoso and Oz (aka David McMillan) does simply amazing things with the guitar. He played a solo “Duelling Banjos” from Deliverance and made it sound like two instruments were playing. They are well worth hearing, if only for their Pink Floyd tribute and their version of Leonard Cohen’s “Hallelujah”.
weg - 24, November, 2011 (16:36)

Peter Coombe
Bob B - 24, November, 2011 (16:33)

Nobody is being punished and the 'group of people want to sabotage this blog with their immature behaviour' has not grown at all. In my view it stands at one. Any fully grown adult who plays victim constantly is exibiting behaviour far from adult. Care to guess who?
Bob B - 24, November, 2011 (16:29)

Tony must be moved if he won't move himself for the good of the party and if you believe a viable opposition is good for the country then that would be good for Australia as well.

Mal Brough would be a good choice as lib leader, on the basis of his past performance. First steps first though. He might just induce me to vote blue again because as it stands at the moment, its not an easy choice - I was a staunch blue years ago and like many others am a tarnished blue today.

My, how quickly the guitars faded.
Kay Kelly - 24, November, 2011 (16:22)

Sue-Do-Nim

Yes, I also agree that Stephen Smith is the pick of the ALP crowd. I am quite impressed by him - a 'quiet achiever'. Well, you and I are of one accord on potential leaders!
Helen - 24, November, 2011 (16:20)

Kay you would know the new Speaker better than me if he is from up there. He didn't look to happy with Abbott & I do think Abbott now has (another) enemy in his ranks. Abbott's position is pracarious because he only got to be Leader of his party by (1) vote & that was his!

Turnbull is just sitting and biding his time & still has the support of at least half of the Libs party. whoever is going to leader it won't be Abbott & nor should he, he is just not a credible leader or future PM in my opinion.
Must sign off now - Homemade soup for dinner tonight. It's like winter down here.
Cheers...
Sue Do-Nim - 24, November, 2011 (16:15)

Kay K.

Yes that's problem isn't it .It might take another term.

At least it's good to know that there are competent and genuinely good and talented people out there (on both sides of the political fence) that will eventually rise to the top.

I think Stephen Smith for Labor and Mal Brough when he returns will be regarded as standouts.

Oh, and yes…Maroon to the core
Helen - 24, November, 2011 (16:11)

My fav Aussie group is "Simply Bushed". Check their web site. Both Paul Grierson & Chris Rieger are stunning guitarists. I admire a lot of guitarists. A man called Albert Lee from the UK. A gypsy called Birelli Lagrene who plays wonderful jazz like Django Rheinhart. Keith Urban from Aus. I could go on & on. Tommy Immanuel (& Phill his brother) are also great. Another called Stuart French from the Feral Swing Katz.

It's a strange topic & is over by the first entry as I don't intend to list hundreds of guitarists. Each is individual. There is also a steel player called Michel Rose from the Ferals & a wonderful expat German called Dieter Kleemann who plays Jazz fusion music...
Kay Kelly - 24, November, 2011 (15:50)

Sue-Do-Nim

I too think fairly highly of Mal Brough, but how can he lead the Libs to victory when he is not a member of Parliament at the moment?

Your comments re Peter Slipper and Kevin Rudd mirror mine to Helen (my final posting on last week's blog).

So I guess you're a Queenslander, too!
Sue Do-Nim - 24, November, 2011 (15:29)

This is truly a great day for Australia.

I wondered what KRuddie and Peter “Sleeper” were doing together at a recent Sunshine Coast function..now we know…they were plotting and planning.

In the short term this gives the government a bit more leverage in the house of reps. and means they won’t have to rely as heavily on the 13 percenters (Greens) or those ego inflated independents.

Those Laborites that have been disappointed and disenchanted with the party’s break away from traditional core policies might now be pleasantly surprised.

The Libs. have purged themselves of an ineffectual member whose electoral expenses are beyond belief,$30,000 in taxi fares in one year alone, and the way is now open for Australia’s next and hopefully greatest P.M. to make his way to centre stage.

Mal Brough will lead the Libs. to a landslide victory at the next election and probably go on to serve longer than Mr.Howard.
"Don't do it tuff,vote for Brough".
Lorikeet - 24, November, 2011 (15:26)

Yes, I'd say we are all being punished because a growing group of people want to sabotage this blog with their immature behaviour.

The person who comes to mind for me as being a great guitarist is Tommy Emmanuel.
Bob B - 24, November, 2011 (14:55)

No Kay, I won't poke fun at you. About eight years ago we went to a Christmas function with Coast Guard at a local club. The entertainment was a 16 year old young man called Scott Cameron who lived in Helensvale on the Gold Coast. He played guitar to an electronic band and sang rock and roll and pop.

We stayed until thrown out at about 3 in the morning. What a hoot. He concentrated on Buddy Holley and wow was he good. He has gone on to play Buddy in Buddy's Back around Australia and Las Vegas amoungts others. Saw him in Brisbane about two years ago and sat in the middle row 2. What a show, he had the audience up and dancing in the aisles.
Kay Kelly - 24, November, 2011 (14:45)

All must be well in the world for seniors, if we are debating this topic! Maybe some senior musos will wax lyrical over guitarists. As for me, I wouldn't have a clue about this!!

Maybe this is the Moderator's way of slowly killing off the blog through lack of interest? Maybe punishment for last week's blogs?

Anyway, I can't stand the sound of guitars per se. But mention Jimi Hendrix and I immediately think of Janis Joplin - love her version of 'Me and Bobby McGee' and 'Mercedes Benz'!! Have all the old 50s to 80s pop, rock 'n roll and country and western songs on our iPod. Sing all the way from here to Armidale, then Sydney. Great fun! Off to see Dolly Parton tomorrow night! Now you will really poke fun at me!

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Who's your guitar hero?

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Comments (312)

Robyn - 1, December, 2011 (12:54)

Robyn - 1, December, 2011 (12:34)

Robyn - 1, December, 2011 (12:23)

Robyn - 1, December, 2011 (12:17)

Kay Kelly - 1, December, 2011 (11:31)

Kay Kelly - 1, December, 2011 (11:19)

Helen - 1, December, 2011 (11:03)

Helen - 1, December, 2011 (11:01)

Robyn - 1, December, 2011 (10:53)

Bob B - 1, December, 2011 (10:30)

Robyn - 1, December, 2011 (10:22)

Kay Kelly - 1, December, 2011 (9:23)

Nottakeet - 1, December, 2011 (8:37)

Kay Kelly - 1, December, 2011 (8:14)

Sue Do-Nim - 1, December, 2011 (8:08)

Nottakeet - 1, December, 2011 (8:02)

Kay Kelly - 1, December, 2011 (7:59)

Robyn - 1, December, 2011 (7:57)

Robyn - 1, December, 2011 (7:51)

Kay Kelly - 1, December, 2011 (7:47)

Helen - 1, December, 2011 (7:28)

Lorikeet - 1, December, 2011 (7:27)

Sue Do-Nim - 30, November, 2011 (21:16)

Lorikeet - 30, November, 2011 (20:42)

Robyn - 30, November, 2011 (20:21)

Robyn - 30, November, 2011 (20:14)

ETS - 30, November, 2011 (17:26)

Bob B - 30, November, 2011 (17:21)

Bob B - 30, November, 2011 (17:05)

Bob B - 30, November, 2011 (17:04)

WEG - 30, November, 2011 (16:59)

Lorikeet - 30, November, 2011 (16:50)

WEG - 30, November, 2011 (16:39)

Lorikeet - 30, November, 2011 (16:30)

Lorikeet - 30, November, 2011 (16:29)

Lorikeet - 30, November, 2011 (16:25)

Laurakeet - 30, November, 2011 (14:53)

Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (12:22)

ETS - 30, November, 2011 (11:35)

Bob B - 30, November, 2011 (11:19)

Parakeet - 30, November, 2011 (11:10)

Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (10:58)

WEG - 30, November, 2011 (10:42)

Bob B - 30, November, 2011 (10:41)

Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (10:15)

Lorikeet - 30, November, 2011 (10:06)

Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (8:22)

helen - 30, November, 2011 (8:08)

Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (8:05)

Bob B - 30, November, 2011 (8:04)

Robyn - 30, November, 2011 (8:00)

Sue Do-Nim - 30, November, 2011 (7:43)

Robyn - 30, November, 2011 (7:20)

Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (7:20)

Helen - 30, November, 2011 (7:01)

Helen - 30, November, 2011 (7:00)

Lorikeet - 30, November, 2011 (6:47)

WEG - 30, November, 2011 (6:02)

Robyn - 30, November, 2011 (5:56)

Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (5:47)

Sue Do-Nim - 30, November, 2011 (5:35)

Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (5:14)

Sue Do-Nim - 30, November, 2011 (5:10)

Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (5:00)

Kay Kelly - 30, November, 2011 (4:53)

WEG - 30, November, 2011 (0:16)

Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (20:56)

Kay Kelly - 29, November, 2011 (19:41)

Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (18:49)

Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (18:41)

Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (18:29)

Lorikeet - 29, November, 2011 (18:26)

Kay Kelly - 29, November, 2011 (17:54)

WEG - 29, November, 2011 (17:44)

WEG - 29, November, 2011 (17:32)

Kay Kelly - 29, November, 2011 (17:29)