Silvio Berlusconi

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Silvio Berlusconi

10 Nov

Silvio Berlusconi

10, Nov, 2011 (3:30 PM)
After more than nine years in office, Italy’s Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has pledged to resign following approval of economic reforms by the parliament of the debt-ridden nation.

The 75-year-old former cruise ship singer, now a media tycoon worth a reported $9 billion, has also been linked to underage prostitutes and his so-called “bunga bunga” parties.

How should he be remembered: as a man who set Italy – and Europe - up for years of economic hardship, or just a gaffe-prone colourful character with a famous disregard for political correctness who may one day try to stage a political comeback?

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Comments (318)

Nottakeet - 17, November, 2011 (14:34)

Lorikeet

I am aware of a number of fusion research facilities in the US and all around the world, but not a "Nuclear Fusion Reactor" that is capable of a sustained net energy gain. Exactly where is the reactor you refer to being built and what is it called?
Laurakeet - 17, November, 2011 (14:18)

Lorikeet, at the risk of provoking an outburst it seems to me you and your son both have flair for misrepresentation.

Your son quotes you and ETS and says who but Tony Abbott could bring you two together. Try as I might I can’t see any similarity between the two quotes. It’s like comparing a reasoned analysis of current Australian politics with something from a bunga bunga party.

Then you say your son is right about Tony Abbott, the PM is widely hated, Abbott looks better than ever, etc, etc. Only problem is your boy did not say that. The closest is he likes the Taliban nickname and hopes it sticks as much as the communist queen tag (which you are one of the very few to use).

I stand to be corrected if any of the above is wrong but reading the messages reassures me I am correct. Perhaps you two should talk a bit more.
Lorikeet - 17, November, 2011 (13:26)

I don't consider Bob Katter to be a nutter at all. I think he will pick up quite a few seats here in Queensland, as he is running 60 candidates.

In my electorate, both the Queensland Party and (Katter's) Australian Party are running candidates against the sitting Labor MP.

I think this person claiming to be my son is right about Tony Abbott. Julia Gillard is so widely hated that Abbott is looking better than he ever did before.

The Taliban originated as a group of men who were tired of their daughters being raped by police after they refused to pay them bribe money.

I am still concerned about the huge stockpiles of 4 berth coffins. They are a sign of something horrible to come.
Helen - 17, November, 2011 (13:08)

Truth be known, there are probably a few Berlusconi reps in Aus too in high places pretending to be holier than thou

He really wasn't worth discussing & this week's blog proved just that.

I'm off air now until tomorrow - cheers from the cloudy & misty today Hawkesbury. The mist is rising from the river, & forming rings of cloud, just lovely. I see this all from my office. I don't feel like going out, but I have to...
Badger - 17, November, 2011 (13:02)

Robyn - the age of consent is 14 in Italy. Berlusconi is being prosecuted because he was alleged to have paid for sex with a girl aged 17. The legal age for sex workers in Italy and Australia is 18, as far as I know. So he would have been prosecuted in Australia as well.

Agreed that Italy is better off without him.
Laurakeet - 17, November, 2011 (12:52)

After a week of this topic nobody has had a single good word to say about Berlusconi's legacy for Italy.

The question is how should he be remembered. The answer is he is best not remembered at all. Italy is better off without him. I just hope it is not too late for them.

Son of Lorikeet, do you know something you want to share?
Robyn - 17, November, 2011 (11:05)

I hesitate to reinvigorate the topic, since most of us are happy to be rid of Berlusconi, but I have been feeling uncomfortable throughout with my first post. Would like to change "...and ran around having parties with underage prostitutes..." to "...and indulged in sex parties with underage kids...". I was following the moderator's words in responding to the topic comment and came across sounding like a real wowser. I have no negative judgement whatsoever toward sex workers.

Someone told me a few days ago that the youngest girl was 17. Since our legal age of consent is 16 that would not be considered "underage" in our country. This still does not excuse Berlusconi's crappy behaviour however.
Son of Lorikeet - 17, November, 2011 (10:53)

Goodbye WEG, have a nice rest.
Sue Do-Nim - 17, November, 2011 (10:52)

Who would have thunk it?

A Blog with the topic Silvio Berlusconi receiving such a large number of contributions.

I’ll stand corrected but possibly the most since the Carbon Tax debate.

Extreme modesty prevents me from claiming any credit for that BUT, I will say.. .until next time...My work here is done.
Helen - 17, November, 2011 (10:44)

Hmm could Sue-Do-Nim be competition for our featherd friend, time will tell?

It's been a huge week (& completely off topic). The thread has gone back & forth & all around, but it's been good.

Let's face it, we couldn't have a week go by without a few insults, it keeps us on our metal

I'm pleased to announce that the swallows on my porch have all grown up & left home (thank goodness). Cute they were but very messy reminds me of a poem from my school years (nothing wrong with my memory!) -

I saw a birdie flying high
He dropped a message from the sky
& as I wiped it from my eye
I said, "Thank God that cows don't fly"
Cheers...
Robyn - 17, November, 2011 (10:25)

Sue Do-Nim may have been dreaming and sleep writing. Her commas are all out of kilter. Or she may have been having another bad night and was taking it out on Julia Gillard.

Interesting that neither she, nor anyone else, had any problem with Bob Katter being called "a nutter" by myself and rmcn and "mad hatter" by Bob B.
Son of Lorikeet - 17, November, 2011 (9:41)

Taliban Tony Abbott. Too bad if you don’t like the nickname. I hope it sticks as well as the Communist Queens do for Gillard and Bligh.

My mother said “It could mean that Abbott supports Australia's continuing involvement in the war in Afghanistan and the related heroin trade.

“Perhaps the writer also understands better than most that Labor/Liberals are running a duopoly which is largely controlled by Global Masters from the UN.”

ETS wrote “Sue, unless you are one of a very small minority who thinks the Taliban is a force for good in the world, then of course it is derogatory. But it is appropriate given TTA’s constant negativity, his willingness to wreck the workings of Parliament for his own short term advantage and his self-imposed role as gatekeeper of our morals.”

Taliban Tony Abbott. Only he could bring about a convergence of two people who never agree on anything.
Laurakeet - 17, November, 2011 (9:05)

Sue Do-Nim, I’ll risk being called a gatekeeper and say the obvious. Your churlish comment at 3:34 am this morning about PM Gillard lacked any grace and courtesy. I also noticed a slight quiver in her voice at the start. Possibly nerves. It did not last long. All the speakers spoke well and none were an embarrassment.

Did you see the Chaser’s Hamster Wheel last night? Probably not, so I can tell you the final segment covered some of the more abusive comments about the PM by shock jocks and their audience. By comparison, the nickname for Mr Abbott was tame and mild. I looked at your over-the-top response to ETS on 15 November and reckon your objection was too strong to be real. I think you were worried the nickname was appropriate and would stick if it became widespread so you tried to nip it in the bud. Your abhorrence of the nickname is quite hollow in hindsight.
Helen - 17, November, 2011 (7:48)

Contd.
Here in the Hawkesbury, I am seeing butterflys, frogs & bird life in abundance as well as roos, wallabies & everything that creeps, crawls & flies.

In the afternoon there are moos, baas & horsy sounds as well as lots of tweets (just like on this blog!) What is evident? (lot's & lot's of greenery & trees. If we drive for an hour this is all gone & there are fumes, fumes & more fumes & only the sparrow who seems to survive anywhere. this says it all.

I would do anything to protect this beautiful area. Many other beautiful areas have been ruined & are now concrete jungles. A sad cry from their origins. Plant a tree today (even in the garden) & make a difference.
Helen - 17, November, 2011 (7:29)

Lorikeet C02 must in the right mix as it is toxic if the levels get to high. 1% (10,000ppm) will make some people drowsy. Concentrations 7%-10% cause dizziness, headache, visual, hearing dysfunction & unconsciousness with a few minutes. this is an accepted fact. It does change with the weather & depends on where we are.

The levels are higher up your way too & in areas where there is little growth with plant life & trees.

Making an effort to slow things down seems reasonable to me, particularly when apart from all the clearance of rain forests (so important for clean air) there are businesses who just pollute without paying the piper for their deeds. Now they can do it with their money & we can start to replace what has been destroyed over a long time & leave the rest to M/nature (which is the way it should be!)...
Kay Kelly - 17, November, 2011 (7:24)

'Bye all - see you next topic! I'm out for the day! Got some appointments.
Kay Kelly - 17, November, 2011 (7:22)

Lorikeet:

1. The use of exclamation marks says I'm exasperated by the craziness of these doomsday sites!!!!!!

2. Note that least I actually specifically addressed your questions to me - which is more than you do when we question some of your statements.
Kay Kelly - 17, November, 2011 (7:17)

Lorikeet:

Our posts crossed in time.

The 'grave liners' are probably just that! They are available for quickly burying people quickly should some other disaster occur in the US - say a hurricane like Katrina, tsunami, floods, volcano, earthquakes, infectious pandemics etc. No doubt they could also be sent to other countries to help out - say, Haiti, Japan, Indonesia, Thailand, Sri Lanka (just thinking about a few recent disasters).

Problem solved!!!
Helen - 17, November, 2011 (7:14)

I thought our PM has done an excellent job representing Oz with Pres Obama. They also really seem to like each other & were very comfortable in each other's company. Remember too that she spent a deal of time with him in the last couple of days.

Some of you can't even say anything nice here. I thought she looked lovely too.

Did anyone notice as Obama moved down the line he only shook hands with the VIPs & the others got a nod & a handshake from the Gov Gen.

He seems lovely & the photos with the children show his character.

It's a shame when he came to power in the US everything was in a shambles. I think they should give him another go to try & turn things around. Everyone there expected so much. One can't be everything to everyone at the one moment, not possible..
Kay Kelly - 17, November, 2011 (7:07)

Lorikeet: (cont.)

I didn't watch the movie before because it appeared as part of a whole host of other sites put on the web by the sort of extreme white right-wing Christian US-patriot militia conspiracy theory types that gave us Ruby Ridge, Waco and the Oklahoma bombing!!! Not exactly my scene!!!

So I guess the answer is that you see what you want to see! If you have a 'conspiracy theory' mindset, you can construct a scary scenario from fairly normal and often incompetent government activities. If you don't have this mindset, you just see a fairly normal but often incompetent government trying to do its best but sometimes failing! Big deal!!
Lorikeet - 17, November, 2011 (7:03)

Kay:

Then what is your opinion on the 4 berth "grave liners" that are being mass produced?

The use of exclamation marks says you are scared.

Nottakeet:

You could try asking the Moderator to put the comments on the Nuclear Energy topic back up for you to read.

I posted some links there that you might find interesting.

It was pretty clear that Nuclear Power and the horror that occurred in Japan scared most of the women and quite a lot of the men.
Kay Kelly - 17, November, 2011 (6:58)

Lorikeet:

OK - now I've watched the movie!!! Appropriately it was called 'Conspiracy Theory - FEMA Camps' by Jesse Ventura. All I see is a US government (not sure, but probably filmed during George W. Bush era), embarrassed by its (and FEMA's) appalling handling of the Katrina disaster putting in place provisions to cover any future disaster! Of course, Disaster Contingency Plans are the sorts of things all government departments are required to develop - but hopefully they will never be needed. There could be a host of other such emergencies other than a hurricane - volcanoes, floods, infectious diseases etc..

The so-called 'residential facility' looked a lot like Villawood or other immigration detention centre! You aren't alarmed by such facilities in Australia!
Lorikeet - 17, November, 2011 (6:57)

The USA started building the first Nuclear Fusion Reactor nearly 4 years ago (beginning of 2008).

They are expected to go into production across the USA in 2013.
Lorikeet - 17, November, 2011 (6:43)

Maybe Julia Gillard is just afraid of Obama because he wants to set up his "biospheres" here to subjugate the masses.

He has clearly come to Australia to exert his Superpower domination.

Most people have probably seen the demonstrators from "Occupy" being dealt with very harshly across the world. They could easily be one of the primary targets for the UN army being trained in the "biospheres".
Nottakeet - 17, November, 2011 (6:41)

Lorikeet

I am not aware of any “new developments” that could have changed the basic laws of physics. In nuclear terms, Th232 is still a fertile atom that can be converted to U233 but it is not fissionable or capable of fusion. Hence, it cannot be used “for Nuclear Fusion”. Your DLP scientist at UQ should be able to confirm that.

A fission-fusion hybrid system that can produce U233 from Th232 was proposed over 30 years ago. It has been the subject of theoretical paper studies and modeling since then, but it remains only a concept. The real device does not exist and never has! In any case a viable commercial fusion reactor that would provide the fusion component of this hybrid is unlikely to be available for decades.
Sue Do-Nim - 17, November, 2011 (3:34)

Talk about being overawed by the occasion .What an embarrassment.

With quivering voice and at a loss to regain any composure our P.M. Gillard welcomed President Obama to Australia.

The poor dear was overawed ,star struck and obviously felt completely ,totally and utterly out of place. No poise ,no class just fawningly insipid.

This was beyond cringe ,this was pathetic.

All we need now is for Bob Brown to disgrace himself today when Mr.Obama addresses the joint sitting of parliament and our national humiliation will be complete.
Monitor - 16, November, 2011 (22:18)

unlike you early birds I read the Blog at night. What a great idea of Laurie Keats to regard it as two blogs and request bloggers not to set off Lorikeet by disagreeing with her.
Laurakeet - 16, November, 2011 (21:15)

Italy has moved on and so have we.

Lorikeet, your son sounds very nice. You have raised him well.
Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (20:47)

Kay

That last one to you was a little out of left field!!! Very left. Maybe there's a hidden meaning like 'I do like being called Mother.'.
Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (20:44)

Where did Silvio go? Do we care? I don't!
Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (20:32)

None of my sons call me "Mother". That's my mother-in-law.

Kay:

If you inflict Information Control on yourself every time you become a little fearful, how can you evaluate anything?
Kay Kelly - 16, November, 2011 (20:12)

Lorikeet:

I was just loosely referring, in a humorous way, to your question at 14:18 15/11 - "Why would the USA be stockpiling mass produced, black plastic, 4 berth 'grave liners'?" My humble apologies for using the term "body bags" in lieu of your "black plastic, 4 berth 'grave liners'! And no, I didn't watch the movie - sounds too crazy for me!
Son of Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (20:07)

Mother, you know I can't do that. My brother is in a vitally important high security position in Canberra. You know, big building, fence around it etc. I would never do anything to put him at risk.

Good night Mum. Sleep well xx
Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (19:32)

Okay, son, give us your Christian name. Otherwise reveal your true identity.
Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (19:31)

Kay:

If you had viewed the film, you would know that there weren't any body bags. They were 4 berth coffins (massive numbers of them piled up in stacks), made from black plastic similar to a plant pot or wheelie bin.

We were told that the USA government was passing them off as "grave liners". There were supposed to be lids, but I don't remember seeing any.
Son of Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (19:25)

Mother, Lorikeet, I am your son.

Remember the good times.
Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (19:23)

I don't need to believe Google. I simply use my own common sense. If water is disappearing from the planet, where the hell is it going?

Carbon dioxide is only a small component of air. If we all used our common sense instead of believing everything we are told, the government would not be game to unload Toxic Levels of Taxation.

Helen:

Good point about the runoff going out to sea. The government has failed to build more dams, with the Traveston Dam being abandoned after $600 million had been spent.

A much bigger dam (Wolfdene) was also given the thumbs down years ago.

The DLP would move water from the northern tropics, partly to service Regional Australia.

Nottakeet:

I know the difference between Nuclear Fission and Nuclear Fusion. Perhaps there have been some new developments. The DLP scientist lectures at UQ in Physical Sciences.

Son of Lorikeet:

Who are you?
Robyn - 16, November, 2011 (18:03)

Helen,

You don't have to be a senior to blog on this blog. My son once trolled me as a joke many strands ago. He was Timmy Tomcat. I unwittingly had a few energetic conversations with him about inheritance. Gave me a good laugh when I found out :)
Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (17:01)

Re Water

My recollection is that Anna Bligh said a water system would be set up in SE Qld to drought proof the region. A project started by Peter Beatty. If we cannot do that, as appears evident, for whatever reason, we have done a poor job and failed the voters. Why waste water when there is a very good flood controlled dam half full on the Gold Coast? If it can be done then the current managers are inept.

I suspect its a contract thing that is preventing a positive outcome. Like - we can give you the water but only if you pay for it.

As for water being run down from north Queensland - it was not a definite thing - only a we will look at it and I think it was determined to be toooooo expessive.
Helen - 16, November, 2011 (16:05)

I like the latest statements bandied around ie "Carbon dioxide" is plant food & therefore is not a threat. That all sounds OK but if we have more people and fewer trees & vegetation to gobble up the plant food then blind Freddy would tell us that the balance will alter & there will be very poor air for we mere mortals to breath.

Re water & Lorikeets statement. If all the water just runs down the drain & out to sea what good is it to us.

In the over 200 yrs whites have been here we should now have water piped across Australia just like in some much poorer countries.
prev governments have been lazy. There has to be a beginning & I am hoping that the c/t/ets is just that - catch you all tomorrow cheers...
English Person - 16, November, 2011 (14:56)

"The DLP's scientific expert" - Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (14:09)

Is this a contender for oxymoron of the year (the quote, not the person)?
Son of Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (14:53)

Mother, please don't publicly disown me. You know how close we are. The bonds of kinship can't be broken that easily.

We both know the truth about the global forces lining up against the people of Australia. Tell it as it is.
WEG - 16, November, 2011 (14:47)

President Barack Obama, the world most powerful man, and the leader of the free world has landed in Australia.
US is a strong alliance partner and friend. Can’t wait to hear his words of wisdom to the joint meeting of both houses tomorrow.
Nottakeet - 16, November, 2011 (14:42)

Lorikeet

There are two possibilities. (1) You have misinterpreted what your DLP “scientific expert” has said or (2) the DLP badly needs a new “scientific expert”. I am no nuclear energy ‘expert’, but I know enough basic physics to appreciate that (a) despite enormous expenditure no one has ever been able to demonstrate sustained nuclear fusion on earth, (b) fusion reactors work by FUSING two LOW atomic number elements together to make an atom of higher atomic number – e.g. hydrogen atoms fused to make helium. This is the principle behind the so-called ‘hydrogen bomb’, and (c) fission reactors work on the principle of taking a HIGH atomic number atom – like uranium - and encouraging it to split, or fission, into two smaller fragments, releasing energy in the process. Thorium is an element with a very high atomic number (90), like uranium (atomic number 92) or plutonium (atomic number 94). It might fission, but it cannot undergo fusion!
Sue Do-Nim - 16, November, 2011 (14:30)

Lorikeet:
Birds of a feather seem to flock together...on this blog.
Although I'm a relative new comer to this forum you'll always be the original, the one and only "Vowel Fowl" to me.
Robyn - 16, November, 2011 (14:20)

Lorikeet:

Just google water scarcity. It's all there. You don't know more than google.
Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (14:09)

The DLP's scientific expert would dispute Nottakeet's claims regarding Thorium and Nuclear Fusion.

Bob B:

Yes, excellent comments about the distribution of water. Anna Bligh said a water grid would be set up to bring water from the northern tropics where rainfall levels are high.

Yes, things have been very quiet about that one lately.

I am not related to Son of Lorikeet, Laurakeet, Parakeet or Nottakeet or any other -keets that might arise from time to time.
Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (13:59)

Contrary to some people's belief, the planet has a certain amount of water which can never increase or decrease. The same applies to every element, including Carbon.

I think Obama is coming here for 3 purposes:

1. To try to hammer home the Carbon Tax.

2. To convince us we should export uranium to India.

3. To ensure he gets the first of his "biospheres" up and running in Darwin. (Where would you put it if you wanted to fool the people?)

The Golden Casket used to fund the Royal Children's Hospital on the northside of Brisbane. Now it is being scaled down in favour of a southside hospital, when keeping both would be more suitable.
WEG - 16, November, 2011 (13:47)

As I mentioned earlier, uranium is on the Fed Govn agenda now because of the US military strategy (as noted in some press releases today).
President Barack Obama wants a greater bilateral defence strategy for both Pacific and now the India oceans. I guess this is required post the withdrawal from Afghanistan / Pakistan in due course.
The main hurdle for such an US-India-Australia alliance is the Labor Party’s policy on uranium that precludes India from sourcing the ore from Australia.
Bob Brown and his brood must be “laying eggs” over this proposed direction. Good to see some backbone appearing in Fed Labor party at last.
Helen - 16, November, 2011 (13:46)

In my parents time. Lotteries etc funded certain infrastructure projects. The harbour bridge toll paid for it's upkeep. Residents could purchase public housing. How smart were they then who ran our C/Try. Where did it go wrong & the pilfering directed to the gov purse?

Is it really so difficult to do this again.

I thought one had to be a senior to be part of this blog, so identify yourself son of Lorikeet please.

In other C/tries selling of the home is expected (we are v/lucky here) in that regard. I mentioned this before. Families become responsible when parents have no assets & only when there is no family will the C/try fund the elderly. More people, less money to go around (it will happen here) just a matter of time!...
ETS - 16, November, 2011 (13:33)

You are right Son of Lorikeet, the blog is a funny place. Good luck to you if you escaped any criticism. I can take criticism and unlike your mum, I have never whinged to the Moderator about anyone’s comments about me. That would just be hypocritical. Sometimes it is good to be reminded about going too far, as it does happen sometimes when I get going. I did distinguish between comments from those I respect and the others who tend to be inconsistent in their attitudes.

Thank you Robyn and Laurakeet for your kind words last night. Kay, you are definitely in the first category. We have different colours and will disagree from time to time but you make well thought out comments that I like to read. Like Bob B, you can engage in a rational discussion with people of different views without abuse and name-calling.
Robyn - 16, November, 2011 (13:00)

Moderator,

Since you have been kind enough to restore some of our recent blog strands, I'm wondering if we could have the "Shopping on line -risky or worth it?" strand restored too please? It contained some valuable information for seniors still finding their way with computers. Thank you.
Brian Storm - 16, November, 2011 (11:47)

Nottakeet and Bob, I have to sit on the fence a bit about SYNROC. I’ve read enough about SYNROC to be encouraged about its use for storing radioactive waste, but I don’t know enough about its pros and cons to compare it with alternatives. It would be an interesting discussion for the blog, moreso if NSA could get input from people with relevant technical expertise (ANSTO comes to mind as one source).

But that is only part of the story. The political battle for a storage site is ongoing. Logic suggests a geological stable area, possibly close to the source of the uranium although this does not have to be a necessity. Overcoming the “not in my backyard” fear will require a lot of work by governments and industry. This should be happening now as the question of radioactive waste storage is not going to go away.
Robyn - 16, November, 2011 (11:19)

Son of Lorikeet,

If you are indeed the son of the chirpy one, for god's sake will you give us some more tips on how to deal with your mother?
Kay Kelly - 16, November, 2011 (11:17)

Son of Lorikeet:

You seem to have inherited a lovely sense of humour! You must take after your father!

I guess we know now what all those US body bags are for!
Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (11:01)

Son of Lorikeet

I have done what you suggest in the past to often find a quite different outcome from that your mother postulates. To question this seems to raise her blood pressure and a lathering of language I choose not to use ensues. So, I gave that a miss a long time ago. For some items you may well be right but too many are to the contrary.

You know, if she could 'bite her tongue' she might just see a lot more in depth discussion. She is like all of us here to join in not to lecture and overbear. Most with a high IQ demonstrate that without pushing it down our throats with the apparent aim of sublime submission of her then subjects.

I watch lorikeets at home often as I live in the Gold Coast hinterland. They move in pairs and join for life. It seems your 'mother' is an odd bird in this respect!!
Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (10:52)

Nottakeet

That sounds good, really good. Safety would need to be demonstarted and I fear problems with land ownership of the 'storage' sites might get out of control.

If we could earn what would be good money for storing a safe product that seems to the way to go.
Son of Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (10:48)

Continued...

For example, why is Obama coming to Australia at this particular time, days after the big conference in Hawaii and days after Tal… Tony Abbott’s trip to England to consult his masters? There is a huge crisis coming up where, believe it or not, Australia is central. It will involve finance, military forces and heavy industry and Australia will be one of the countries with the money and resources to pay for it all. The rest of the world is broke except for China and India and they aren’t paying for anything.
Son of Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (10:47)

The blog is a funny place ETS. I come up with a great, accurate description of Tony Abbott and I get no flack about it at all. You see the funny (non-ironical?) side of it and cop a load of crap for it. As my mother would say, go figure.

Laurakeet, you need to learn that you do not ask my mother questions. She provides information and asks her own questions. She is not here to answer your questions. If you want answers, do the research, join the dots and see the linkages. It is all there if you have the energy to look hard enough.
Nottakeet - 16, November, 2011 (10:43)

Bob B (continued)

The development of SYNROC led to the obvious suggestion that Australia would be the ideal place to dispose of nuclear waste, including the idea that we could sell our uranium and then take back the irradiated fuel, re-process it, incorporate the waste in SYNROC and finally bury it in very deep holes in a geologically suitable location in the Australian outback. The obvious advantages suggested were:- (1) support for increased sales of uranium, (2) earn an absolutely huge amount of money via the disposal of nuclear waste and (3) ensure that the irradiated fuel could not be used to make nuclear weapons – the perfect non-proliferation measure.

The pros and cons of this line of thinking would make an even better topic for a future blog.
Nottakeet - 16, November, 2011 (10:41)

Bob B

One of the most promising, although expensive, methods of radioactive waste disposal - SYNROC - was ‘invented’ by the late Ted Ringwood at the ANU in the late 1970’s and developed in collaboration with the then AAEC at Lucas Heights in the 1980’s. This technology has been successfully demonstrated at pilot plant level using ‘artificial’, non-radioactive isotope additions and the worldwide patents are preumably still held by the ANU, ANSTO and the Federal Government. No one has as yet taken up the process, probably because of the cost and the desire not to be the first to actually permanently dispose of high level nuclear waste.
Nottakeet - 16, November, 2011 (10:38)

Brian Storm

Many thanks for your comments/corrections. The final say could well now come from Martin Ferguson’s Department, but ASNO will still have a say – that is if they do not want their insistence on exporting to NPT signatories to look ineffectual.

A possible connection between the sale of uranium to India and the future storage and disposal of nuclear waste would really open up a ‘can of worms’! See my forthcoming replies to Bob B.
Robyn - 16, November, 2011 (10:09)

I think we should all be putting in maximum effort to conserve water. Compulsory rainwater tanks could be a good start. I have also read about the potential for roof water to be stored in tanks within the outer and inner walls of buildings. The draining of water basins for irrigation is a huge problem in many parts of the world. Perhaps we need to be thinking about more and better dams, improving desalination processes, improving farming methods etc, world wide. Really, I don't pretend to have the answers but I think we need to take this future threat seriously and stop whining about the present costs. At least they make us conserve in small ways.
Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (10:09)

Brian Storm

Thanks for the update.

I fear the world will decide nuclear waste will be stored by the country of origin of the uranium. There are other options on the table but this one keeps surfacing. That is a question to be resolved before we start wholesale exports of uranium.
Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (10:05)

We spend billions of dollars building a water infrastructure in SE Queensland and millions extending the Hinze Dam on the Gold Coast to double its capacity. When things look like we might get a lot of rain we dump the water from Wivenhoe Dam 80% to 75% at a time when the Hinze Dam is about 50% after the extension and has been supposedly designed to control flood outlet. Why not top up the Hinze Dam. Is the new regional infrastrucure that was supposed to enable water to be transferred betwen dams just a means to provide water to Brisbane from the other dams?

The Government and the media have been very quiet on this. My local member has taken it up.
Brian Storm - 16, November, 2011 (10:00)

Notakeet, thanks for your comments. I suspect the part of the website you looked at is a bit out of date. DFAT is involved in uranium export negotiations but I understand the export control on uranium is administered by the Department of Resources, Energy and Tourism (RET), which was split from the former Industry, Tourism and Resources after the 2007 election. Martin Ferguson is the relevant Minister.

Negotiations with India to establish the framework for the trade would be at a government-to-government level. Commercial negotiations would of course be with the uranium producers and buyers, but still with ongoing government consultation.

If the trade to India is approved, one of the important considerations is the storage or disposal of nuclear waste.
Robyn - 16, November, 2011 (9:55)

Regarding power and water costs:
I think not far down the track we may all be pleasantly surprised by the development of new technologies that will produce our power. Already they have developed a solar paint that holds a lot of promise. I also read that new forms of solar panels may be incorporated in external walls during building construction. Money is needed to research and develop these and other new technologies. The carbon tax will supply this money. We will all benefit in the long run with cheaper power.

Water is another kettle of fish. Scarcity of our most precious, essential resource is shaping up to become a major world threat. The dwindling of water supplies has already begun. A program last night on SBS at 7.30pm - "How Many People Can Live On Planet Earth" - outlined the problems. (to continue)
Nottakeet - 16, November, 2011 (9:43)

Lorikeet

I realise that it is the NSA that decides on topics for blogs. Hence I addressed my suggestion to the Moderator. I also sought the opinions of the other bloggers and, since you must surely be the ‘Queen of NSA Blogs’, I asked you specifically for your opinion.

Incidentally, in relation to two factual points – (1) the regrettable Fukushima reactor explosions did NOT lead to a “huge loss of life”. That was the direct effect of the tsunami, not Fukushima, and (2) nuclear fusion has NOT yet been shown to be feasible, even on a laboratory scale. In any case thorium is NOT a candidate fuel for a fusion reactor. Thorium is a non-fissionable, fertile material that can be converted to the fissionable U233 isotope via neutron bombardment in a FISSION reactor. A number of countries, including India, are already working on the thorium fuel cycle in fission reactors.
Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (9:26)

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=senator+madigan+on+manufacturing+industries&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

I am told that the former SPC processing plant is now being used as a warehouse to store Chinese canned fruits, after a new label has been slapped on them.
Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (9:21)

Kay:

A tsunami is generally created by an earthquake at sea.

We are yet to see deaths from exposure to radiation.

Yes, I agree that a lot of people drowned and the tsunami helped to cause large scale destruction.
Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (9:19)

Bob B:

Thanks for the info on the Aged Care forums you attended.

I am very concerned that people living in High Care whose spouses (mostly female) are still at home, will either finish up living on the streets or be exposed to huge reverse mortgages to pay High Care Bonds.

I consider the Productivity Commission's ideas to be a deliberate attack on (mostly) women, who are already exhausted from numerous trips to visit their ailing husbands.

I remain opposed to a Bond on High Care, but am willing to listen to reasons.

I won't be changing my stance on Uncapped Bonds (definitely against) and will continue to pursue better wages for aged care workers and a fair go for shareholders.
Kay Kelly - 16, November, 2011 (9:16)

Lorikeet:

I refer to your comment on the Fukushima plant. There was not a huge loss of life associated with the Fukushima explosions and radioactive discharge. The huge loss of life was due to the tsunami. I think at most only a handful of people may have died or been made ill due to their very brave and self-sacrificing efforts to help control the reactor. As sad as that is, it pales into insignificance in comparison to the loss of life from other industrial accidents in all sorts of industries.

But yes, the radioactive discharge has caused, and will continue to cause, a lot of environmental and economic damage, and maybe a slight increase in the incidence of certain types of cancer.
Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (9:07)

WEG:

Regarding the government's lack of interest in building infrastructure, I think they are deliberately creating horrendous conditions which will result in the Australian public welcoming (with open arms) the turning over of everything to the corporate sector, who will then commence to rob us blind.

My investigations of The Macquarie Bank showed that they give donations in areas they wish to take over. A lot of these are "voluntary" donations which come from the salaries of their banking staff.

They give donations to Education, Health and The Arts.

The government gives corporates taxpayers' money to set up infrastructure, and then lets them collect the profits.

This is why the government kitty keeps shrinking, and they then need to charge us more in indirect taxes, and ramp up foreign borrowings.

Everything is blamed on an Ageing Population and the need to pay pensions. Stay tuned for a Euthanasia Bill to be raised in the parliament shortly.
Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (8:58)

Nottakeet:

Only the NSA can decide the topic each week. You and everyone else can email suggestions at any time.

We discussed Nuclear Power in relation to the Japanese disaster some months ago. I think most women and quite a lot of men were opposed to it due to the huge loss of life, together with economic and environmental damage it caused.

Japan built a lot of power stations which use Nuclear Fission in a known earthquake zone, mainly because they have no coal reserves of their own.

Here in Australia, we have plenty of Uranium and the less radioactive substance, Thorium, which could be used for Nuclear Fusion.

GORGON PROJECT (NATURAL GAS)

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/australia-clinches-50bn-china-gas-deal/story-e6frf7jo-1225763521151
Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (8:43)

Cont...

Those new facilites are no doubt required but the costs should be ammortised over a longer period. Also, be aware that the political spin may be quite misleading. Peter Beatty proudly staed he had duplicated the rail line from Brisbane to the Gold Coast. So why is that the section between Coomera and Helensvale is still asingle line. Many expensive bridges are necessary so lets forget that bit. This alone will impeded much further increase in services to the Gold Coast that are necessary now during the peak.
Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (8:43)

Helen

You are quite right. We have seen power and water (and other basic commodities) politicised because succesive governments have redirected monies from building infrastructure in tune with population increases to other avenues. Then when it got too hard the arrangements were changed so that 'they' were not responsible for the heavy increases in costs. As well, any new infrastructure is to be paid off very quickly futher exacerbating the problem for consumers.

cont.
Nottakeet - 16, November, 2011 (8:42)

Moderator and NSA Bloggers Pty Ltd

It would appear that ‘Nuclear Power as the means to avoid Climate Change’ would make an excellent topic for a future blog.

Lorikeet – would this suggestion fly?
Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (8:41)

CONSPIRACY THEORIES

This term was coined to shut down people's thinking and to cause them to mock and deride others. The film is fairly sensational, but please take a good look at the visual evidence and file it for future reference.

GORGON PROJECT (NATURAL GAS)

Here is my first link:

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/bn/eco/LNG_Exports.pdf

WEG:

Anthropogenic Climate Change has not been proven, and even if it was, the DLP and some other minor parties will be sticking with moderate environmental policies, which do not result in either a Tax on Air or Toxic Levels of Taxation.

Unfortunately the NSA only invites Labor/Liberals/Greens to pre-election forums, cutting out all of those who don't have a high taxing agenda.

I have asked for some links regarding manufacturing in Australia.
Nottakeet - 16, November, 2011 (8:40)

Senior at Large and Brian Storm

The Australian Government Departments involved in uranium exports are Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) – see the ‘Australian Safeguards and Non-proliferation Office (ASNO)’ website – and Industry Tourism and Resources – look at the ‘Protected and Restricted Exports’ section of the Australian Customs and Border Protection Services website. DFAT probably has the major control over uranium exports through ASNO and may well be able to override Industry, Tourism and Resources.

‘Protected and Restricted Exports’ includes ‘Radioactive Substances - Uranium, thorium and fissionable material, including plutonium’, as well as the ‘Defence and Strategic Goods List’ which refers to ‘nuclear related items of all kinds’. The latter is designed to prohibit export of anything that might be used ‘in weapons of mass destruction programs’. This is an attempt to ensure that Australian exports do not assist countries engaging in clandestine uranium enrichment, nuclear weapon production, etc.
WEG - 16, November, 2011 (8:10)

Helen - 16, November, 2011 (7:29)

I concur with your comments.

Don’t forget though, the power (also water) consortiums on the east coast of Australia are owned & managed by the State Governments. Over the last 5 years the increases in the accounts were way above the inflation rate.

The State Governments have been charging a levy during this period under the guise of greener energy. We have been paying a ‘Carbon Tax’ style tax for many years now, and now the real carbon tax will be on top of this! figure that one out?

The other point is that these State Governments have been ripping out $B each year as ‘dividends’, and ignoring the need to invest in the infrastructure.
Kay Kelly - 16, November, 2011 (7:44)

Robyn:

Thanks for your comment. Certainly this blog exposes us to people from a wide range of views and experiences. That's what is so great about it - no use arguing with teenagers - they just don't have the depth of experience that makes a debate with them worthwhile! I happen to enjoy hearing views 'from left field' as is makes us think! My previous work position exposed me to people with diametrically opposed extreme points of view, so I am accustomed to that. I even got a live bullet posted to me once - and that was only because the person violently disagreed with a wildlife policy!! Life is rich in experience.
Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (7:35)

The NSA Aged Care Forums are well worth the time. Get to one if you can - I attended them both on the Gold Coast on Monday and learned a lot as well as having the opportunity to contribute.

You are given a paper with three questions to address to assist NSA with policy formulation. It was conducted by small group discussions to identify concerns/issues on each question as well as a general topic for anything else pertinent.

By far the question of most concern for me was the recommendation to sell the house to fund your aged care.

Get along and contribute; afterall its your future in the balance.
Robyn - 16, November, 2011 (7:34)

Kay,

I was referring to your comment at 6:28/6:36. I interrupted the writing of my response and have just noticed there are so many more comments between then and now.
Helen - 16, November, 2011 (7:29)

Water & power is the legacy of "all" previous governments & the reason why people are paying more.
All are guilty as it was deemed expensive. The sad thing is that as time goes on the cost just increases along with our bills.

Even if new infrastructure started now for eveything, it would take as just as long to fix. This is not good news for any of us. C/T/ETS should not be blamed for this & might even put some cash in your hands to help by early next year.
We have a very large power bill here also tank water, so this does help balance the two for us. Our phone line is worse than awful & affects my internet...
Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (7:28)

'maron' should have been 'maroon' but it does have a nice ring to it - there are other combinations of these letters I could have used but that would incite a riot from Queenslanders!!
Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (7:25)

Kay Kelly

I have been on this blog for some time and have been through the 'education' process by Lorikeet. I tried to talk reason to no avail so, chose to completely ignore her. After the recent altumatum sent out by National Seniors things toned down and I decided things may have changed so started communicating with all again. Alas, it quickly deteriorated, as I forecast with my wife, and Lorikeet is again off limits.

Thus your parallel universes is a good sumation - I love Dr Who and am atarnished Blue in politics and State of Origin. I suspect the tarnish might come as far as Rugby league is concerned next year. I live in Queensland but was born in Sydney so hang on to BLUE and its lots of fun being blue in maron territory.
WEG - 16, November, 2011 (7:23)

Global warming is a complex assertion. No one, not even Bob Brown or any scientist has the solution. Yes we have to act, but technology will play a major role, not a thumping new tax or the continual extremist theme that the world will end. That only scares the stuffing out of all us Seniors.

Bob Brown and his brood are likened to “Chicken Little” the activists who ran around yelling “the sky is falling”. Once all the animals were altogether, it made it easy for the fox to eat them. Australians are being feed on chicken pellets and handouts that attempt to screen the truth.

Who are the beneficiaries of the $10 billion fund that Bob Brown demanded be set up?

To Private, Unlisted Companies and power consortiums being run by a select group of people with extreme ideology. They’ll be richer whilst we remain poor, and for what?
Robyn - 16, November, 2011 (7:23)

Good morning Kay. Enjoyed your comment.
This blog mirrors non-virtual life with it's myriad of personalities and world views and I too learn from it. I guess a difference is that we bring ourselves into contact with some who we might give wide berth to in our "real" lives. I find myself as fascinated with the psychological dynamics of these NS blogs as the political dynamics. I agree there is a parallel universe going on which, along with dominance by the chirpy one, presents constant challenge. All part of the journey I guess.
Helen - 16, November, 2011 (7:18)

It seems the drum is all about uranium this morning. I saw a mention of water and power too. Do we have the right to be everyone's "watch dog" as far as uranium goes? So far we are only speculating on what might happen. Again wait until we find out what is really happening befor condemming. We sit on great wealth and really business is business and we should benefit by our own natural resources. My beef is how all the rubbish is stored (or dumped from reactors even in our own C/try.

re water & power - to follow...
Kay Kelly - 16, November, 2011 (7:12)

Lorikeet:

I think you do raise many issues of legitimate concern, and well worthy of debate and consideration. It is just a pity that you feel it necessary to belittle and insult anyone who happens to disagree with you. It is also a pity that your quite legitimate concerns are hidden in a plethora of conspiracy theory interpretations. You do yourself a disservice by these approaches.
Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (7:12)

On the Aged Care issue, I have every reason to believe that the elderly, their carers/workers and shareholders are being short changed.

Corporates are gradually taking over Aged Care in order to build their empires. I expect the same will happen with Schools, Hospitals and The Arts in the near future.

The government is already raising its eyebrows as to where the charity dollar is going. This feeds into my long held belief that they intend to tax the churches out of existence, so corporates can take over everything using the following formula/technique.

ROB
RATION
ROB
RATION
ROB
RULE
Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (7:06)

WEG:

I just read your excellent comments and I certainly support the opinions of the NSA on most matters.

In the local NSA branch news, we learned that current policy priorities include:

1. Ageing
2. Health
3. Cost of Living
4. Housing

I will be attending the Aged Care Forum here in Brisbane on Wednesday 23 November at the Irish Club, 175 Elizabeth Street, Brisbane. We have been asked to arrive at 9.30 a.m. for a 10.00 a.m. start, and 12.00 noon finish.

The huge increases in the cost of utilities are part of the Corporate Greed Agenda which sells us out as individuals and as a nation.

Electricity prices alone are expected to treble.
Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (6:58)

Whitlam and Keating signed many of the international treaties that sell us out to global corporate neo-communism.

Anyone who thinks Australia will ever recoup the money lent to the IMF to bail out Greece is having a pipe dream.

The detractors do not believe what I tell them, so they can look for answers to their own questions, just as I have. This will take away the opportunity to abuse those who are better informed and more insightful than themselves.
Sue Do-Nim - 16, November, 2011 (6:57)

Robyn Sweetie:
My sincerest apologies…My oversight completely.
A very well measured and reasonable response by you considering your political allegiances.
How could I have missed it? I’m off to the optometrist next week, maybe he can help.
Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (6:56)

Laurie Keats has joined the "gatekeepers", most of whom have little knowledge of what really goes on in the world, but excel at perpetrating the Tall Poppy Syndrome.

President Barack Obama is coming to visit, with the primary intention of ensuring some of his "biospheres" are set up here in Australia, commencing with one in Darwin.

In the future, the world will be ruled by a Global Government, in conjunction with rich bankers trading off a grossly deceptive and highly lucrative Green agenda.

The world will be divided into World Sectors (probably 7, as I have outlined previously). These will be known as Economic Unions, whose primary purpose is to bring the whole world down to the lowest common denominator.

Since the EEU was the first to be formed and Australia is not as broke as most other nations, a Carbon Tax has also been brought in here first, to deliberately give us a much speedier financial caning.
Kay Kelly - 16, November, 2011 (6:56)

Moderator:

I too wish to register my thanks for restoring the earlier blogs. Thank you!
Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (6:48)

I think there should be a second blog for all of the narrow minded abusers and "gatekeepers".

Those who wish to learn more about the cost of manufacturing in Australia should contact Senator Madigan via the DLP website. My information comes from the party leader who has been out and about looking into various manufacturing industries, but I guess even that would not suffice for some people.

Most people would know that we are selling 50 years worth of natural gas from the Gorgon Project (off WA) to China for 6 cents per litre. The last I heard, the people of WA were paying $1.70 per litre, which has probably risen in recent times.

My current position is that I would vote for Liberals before Labor, because they are less fiscally irresponsible where the budget is concerned, and at least some of them are of greater moral fibre.
Kay Kelly - 16, November, 2011 (6:36)

(cont.)

I guess we just have to learn to live with these parallel universes!

Apart from the insults I cop from time to time from Lorikeet, I really do enjoy this blog. I feel I have made some great friendships, on all sides of the political spectrum. Life is a learning experience, and I do learn a lot about other people's sensible and understandable points of view. And this learning does influence my own point of view - which, I might say, is not fixed but drifts around somewhere in the middle, albeit more to the Liberal side of politics. But Tony Abbott is definitely not the best thing since sliced bread!
Kay Kelly - 16, November, 2011 (6:28)

Laurie Keats:

I agree with you 100%! When you read through this blog, it is like reading from parallel universes. There will be a polite, intelligent and mature discussion going on - not always on topic, but often related to the latest news items etc.. This discussion includes people who often completely disagree on issues, but who treat each other with respect and don't indulge in name-calling.

Then, in comes Lorikeet! Insults galore! An unnecessarily nasty injection of abuse - the ETS Alzheimers reference being one recent example. This is then followed by a stream of often outrageous statements. Lorikeet does occasionally raise an issue that could be the source of further mature discussion, but in that case, any view other than her own is ridiculed. I too have Googled these 'conspiracy theory' postings. Any crumb of truth hidden in these internet postings is destroyed by the extreme language and interpretations.
Robyn - 16, November, 2011 (6:20)

Sue daaarling:

I refer you to my comment at (5:53). I'm surprised you missed it. Perhaps you need your morning coffee? Does wonders for mental alertness.
Sue Do-Nim - 16, November, 2011 (6:08)

Robyn daaarling:
If you'd had to sleep in a bedroom with two brothers,you'd remember flatulence humour too!
On the previous blog you stated that despite your age you were"still able to make a modicum of sense".
Would it be possible to exercise that "modicum" and detail to me how YOU feel about Ms. Gillard's rather amazing backplip in relation to the export of uranium to a country that's not a signatory to the Non Proliferation Treaty.
I anxiously await your reply and one which doesn't contain the word ..Howard.
Let's see if you can do that.
WEG - 16, November, 2011 (6:00)

I keep in touch with a group of pensioners aged above 70, twice a week. One man who lives on his own boils a kettle of water each morning for a cup of coffee. He retains the remaining hot water in a thermos for additional coffees during the day. He turns off all power points to ensure nothing is left to chance.

“Since 2006, water and sewerage have increased by 62%; electricity by 61%, medical services by 33% and rent by 32%” & – quote from Micheal O’Neal’s report.

No ‘one off’ government carbon tax compensation will pay for such increases in these utility costs.
WEG - 16, November, 2011 (5:58)

Interesting article

“The National Seniors Productive Ageing Centre report answers its question - Are Older Australians Being Short Changed? with a resounding ”yes”, released by Micheal O’Neal on 14th Nov. 2011.

“The income of a single 70-something is barely a third of the over 50s average. This means they can only afford to spend on essentials such as food, energy and health which, year after year, are outpacing inflation”.

“Most importantly, as a nation we should be asking how it is that electricity and water prices can increase by 60% in five years,” said Michael O’Neill.
Robyn - 16, November, 2011 (5:53)

I think at heart I have always been Green. In the early 1970's I used to demonstrate against uranium mining. The major issue then was the misuse of uranium for weapons making. We have moved on since then and I will wait to learn more before judging this new Govt decision. Further information on ABC Lateline last night was reassuring. I do respect Bob Brown so I am keen to hear more of his views on this latest development.
Robyn - 16, November, 2011 (5:17)

rmcn:

You are demonstrating the niavety of a new comer to the blog. You seem not to understand that your "most sensible friend" Lorikeet hero worships Bob Katter and envisages an alignment between his Australia Party and her precious DLP. She hates the Liberal Party as much as the Labor Party.

Sue Do-Nim:

You remind me of the song "A Boy Named Sue". Females do not generally get off on fart jokes, let alone remember them from primary school days.
Laurie Keats - 15, November, 2011 (22:37)

Lorikeet said Whitlam was a communist. When this was demolished she then said he was a “corporate neo-communist”. This is not the same! It uses “communist” in a way that 99.99% of the population would not accept. It is another example where Lorikeet has her own meanings.

“Sick of It” is correct that Lorikeet has come to dominate the blog. This is in fact two blogs. One is for interested seniors to discuss and enhance their knowledge. The other 10 to 30% [17%. on this one. Apologies to Monitor] is for Lorikeet to repeat her various views where she resents disagreement and lashes out with abuse. Arthur Mac says if Lorikeet feels abused she is abused.

The solution is to record at the beginning of the Blog that there are two blogs, one on the subject for polite rational debate and a second protected workshop for Lorikeet where bloggers are requested not to comment and especially not to disagree
Laurie Keats - 15, November, 2011 (22:33)

Lorikeet constantly complains of being insulted but reading the blogs shows she is the one using the most personal insults and does so when she cannot answer the argument. Her saying ETS had dementia was completely unacceptable in a blog for seniors and the Moderator should have deleted it. If ETS and Lorikeets contributions were given to a psychiatrist for an evaluation I know who is the most likely to be diagnosed with a problem of the mind so I suggest Lorikeet stays off that subject.
WEG - 15, November, 2011 (22:20)

The uranium backflip by PM Gillard is against ALP policy since the 1970’s and will basically “reinstate” regulations passed by PM Howard in 2007.

The Fed Government, and Resources Minister Martin Ferguson negotiates all international uranium contracts on behalf of Australia.

The States have the legislative / mining rights. Queensland has prohibited uranium mining while NSW has a ban on uranium exploration. Queensland has an estimated $20 billion in uranium deposits. BHP Billiton's Olympic Dam mine in the S Aust far north contains the world's largest uranium deposit and a huge expansion is underway.
I understand both Canada & Brazil currently export uranium to India.
I believe there is something in the pipeline re US-India-Australia relationship and the announcement is timely with the President Barack Obama visit.
rmcn - 15, November, 2011 (21:16)

She has done it again. Now we will sell uranium to a country that will not be part of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Well I suppose how the hell else are we going to get in money to cover the outrageous deficits this Labor government is inflicting on us. Lets sell some to Iran as well. Sue Do-Nim and Lorikeet, I'm starting to think you are the only sensible ones on here (But please, no Bob Katter!!! Otherwise we get back Captain Bligh)
Laurakeet - 15, November, 2011 (21:08)

There is more?

Who did we borrow money from to lend it out? Details please, not just assertions.
Laurakeet - 15, November, 2011 (21:06)

The United Nations dictating the sale of Australian uranium to India? Who? When? Details please.

India on the short list of countries likely to invade Australia? How short is the short list? Details please.

Surely we are now all resources experts. No training or knowledge of the industry or government policy needed (apparently)?

Selling resources to the third world for a song? So where do the super profits fit in? Details please.

We can produce goods here at no more than it costs to import them from Asia? Like to share the evidence for that? Details please.

If you can provide details of your claims we might be able to have a reasonable discussion.

Silvio is not the only one whose life is one long bunga bunga party.
Lorikeet - 15, November, 2011 (21:01)

Sorry I forget to mention that Australia does not have a "black column" from which to lend funds to the IMF in support of destitute, debt ridden Greece.

For 35 years, we haven't even managed to reduce our own debt, let alone pay it back.

There is absolutely no money to be made by borrowing money and then lending it out to those who have less than Buckley's chance of repaying.
Lorikeet - 15, November, 2011 (20:54)

Surely by now we are all Resources Experts. If there is a resource available to sell to the third world for a song, the government quickly sanctions it, while we pay a mint here in Oz.

Then when they have value-added goods to sell back to us, we buy it at some outrageous price while our own people have no work.

This is how foreign debt and unemployment have been continuously ramped up well beyond the value of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) since 1975.

Senator Madigan has been investigating manufacturing industries in Australia (and his home state of Victoria in particular) and found that we can produce goods here for no more than it costs to import them from Asia.

Bob Brown and the Greens might possibly support the reduction in pollution which would result from locally manufactured goods, depending on whether or not they still think that the empowerment of the third world is more important.
Lorikeet - 15, November, 2011 (20:44)

Sue-Do-Nim is proving to be quite a bit smarter than those from the nitpicking brigade (gatekeepers), who falsely believe themselves to be largely innocent as well as informed.

If the United Nations has dictated a sale of uranium to India, that's what will happen, because it was Labor who sanctioned the delegation of our national sovereignty to the UN.

India is on the short list of countries likely to invade us. That's why they're getting both the public/private partnerships that are damaging to ordinary citizens, and the means to blow Aussies away!

I noticed there were no takers for my list of interesting questions.

WEG continues to be one of the most even handed people on this dysfunctional blog.
Sue Do-Nim - 15, November, 2011 (20:09)

Senior @ Large and B.Storm:
I’m just a concerned spectator from the sidelines and I don’t understand the legal processes involved. If what you say is correct, and I’m not doubting it , and the legislation doesn’t have to go before parliament then this is going to be an issue of huge proportions.
What was the catalyst for this complete change in policy?

How will voters ,environmentalists and trade unions react?
Brian Storm - 15, November, 2011 (19:50)

Senior at Large raises a good point. I am not an expert in resources policy but I assume uranium exports are restricted under a schedule of the Customs (Prohibited Exports) Regulations under the Customs Act. If this is the case and the schedule needs to be changed, it can probably be done administratively without bothering the Parliament about it. It is also possible the schedule itself may not need to be changed if it provides a blanked restriction which can only be by-passed by Ministerial approval.

Do we have any seniors with a background in resources policy?
Senior at Large - 15, November, 2011 (19:28)

If the ALP Conference supports Gillard’s proposal to sell uranium to India, does it have to go to Parliament? Do any laws need to be changed to allow it to happen. Uranium exports are controlled by the Government and an export permit is required from the Department of Resources, Energy and Tourism. Unless legislation needs to be changed then once the Conference approves the change, I believe all that is required is the approval of Minister Martin Ferguson. In this case all the complaints from the Greens won’t change a thing.

If it does have to go to Parliament, surely the Opposition will not block it, based on Julie Bishop’s comments today. So either way the Greens won’t have a say and the sale to India will take place.

So if you don’t want Australia to sell uranium to India, find out who the delegates to the ALP Conference are and start lobbying them.
Bob B - 15, November, 2011 (19:07)

This Bob says 'what a crazy idea' but I think Dr Bob will be more forceful when he gets the chance.

Julia is certainly stretching the boundaries for not just Labor but the voters as well. I wonder how many spin doctors are involved. Here in Queensland Anna has many who really seem to stuff things up all the time because the guises are too shallow for most but the diehards to accept.
U3O8 FOR INDIA - 15, November, 2011 (19:06)

Sue, is this your own opinion? Surely WEG does not agree with you>>>??
Sue Do-Nim - 15, November, 2011 (18:57)

Surely not!
Tell me it isn’t so.
Prime minister Gillard announced today that she wants to export Australian uranium to India. A country which refuses to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty.
Just when the voting public couldn’t be more disenchanted with this clueless mob we now have a complete and utter deviation from their core policies and basic values.
If Ms. Gillard gets her way, the once great exemplars of social consciousness will be reduced to a spineless rabble, standing for nothing and in the process risking the lives and well being of countless individuals.

I wonder what Dr.Bob will have to say about this?
Robyn - 15, November, 2011 (18:23)

Well said Laurakeet. I agree.
Laurakeet - 15, November, 2011 (18:15)

ETS, I don't accept your contrition. I can't see that you have anything to be contrite about, given the abuse you have copped from a couple of others. I like your humour and zesty approach to issues. The blog would be poorer without your contributions. OK, maybe you do go over the top sometimes but you are not Robinson Crusoe in that area.

Keep calling it as you see it and don't let the doom and gloom brigade get to you.
Robyn - 15, November, 2011 (18:02)

Great response(s) ETS. I too like the ring of Taliban Tony and dislike the double standards of some on the blog. However, I have to admit I have not liked the disrespectful names aimed at Julia Gillard so will refrain from using it unless.....

I thought the "dementia" dig was woeful but you handled it well.
Kay Kelly - 15, November, 2011 (17:54)

ETS:

You well know I am a bluish sort of person, but I am a long way from thinking Mr A is the best thing since sliced bread!! I am not that silly! And I also objected to the names Ms G has been called (most often by the 2% bird) - and I don't think she is the best thing since sliced bread either.
ETS - 15, November, 2011 (17:31)

I feel chastened when my words are criticised by people I respect. I’ll take some of those comments as constructive criticism. I suppose I did go a bit too far in my enthusiasm for the nickname coined by the Son of Lorikeet.

I defended Lorikeet a few months back when another blogger called her Liarkeet, which I thought was over the top and unparliamentary. The lady herself did not respond to me but then two days later she started playing games with my initials, so I figured why bother.

I still like that description and it is quite apt (of Tony, not Lorikeet). But out of respect for my fellow bloggers who think Tony is the best thing since sliced bread I shall refrain from distressing them with it. I ask my fellow bloggers to show similar respect and not abuse the name of the Prime Minister, or any other politicians for that matter.

What do you think?
Kay Kelly - 15, November, 2011 (17:24)

Helen:

I did my best to start a discussion about the topics you raised, but Robyn was the only one to comment! Are these all 'sleeper' issues?

I do feel strongly that prayers are inappropriate in Parliament. A complete separation of religion/Church and the State should be applied.
Helen - 15, November, 2011 (17:08)

I just viewed the comments today. Staying out of it!

I heard discussion today re deciding when one wants to shuffle on if they have a serious, terminal illness or worse (dementia). I for one believe in living wills and would like to decide when I would like to leave this mortal coil while I am smart & alert.

I would hate to suffer hidden away as I have witnessed so many do for a long time. No-one has the right to decide for me. I hope the law comes in. In the discussion it was said that many end their life prematurely because of fear. Not a nice discussion but important I think.
We don't let animals suffer as we do human beings. I have seen some horrible things & feel very strongly about this subject.

The puffed up bird is still squarking I see
Good evening all...
Bob B - 15, November, 2011 (16:38)

Kay Kelly

I too don't like name calling. Some of those appearing here are down right disrespectful and seem as you say, to be based on nothing other than disagreement with policy. It's unwarranted and tells more about the name caller than they realise. One name caller in particular goes ballistic when called names that was on one occasion an honest mistake and not disrespectful at all. Double standards.
Kay Kelly - 15, November, 2011 (16:17)

Maybe it is just a hang-up of mine, but I don't like name-calling. Neither "Taliban Tony Abbott" nor "JuLiar Gillard". I just think it is childish and shows no respect at all for the office the person holds. Disagreeing with a leader's policies, actions etc is perfectly OK, but calling them names is just relying on cheap shots! I think all of these people are probably genuinely nice people who are trying to do their best for the nation as they see it. We may disagree with their views, but that is no reason to indulge in name-calling.
ETS - 15, November, 2011 (15:51)

Quite right WEG. She never stops.
WEG - 15, November, 2011 (15:22)

......seems the gatekeeper’s web has spread even further and caught another unsuspecting Senior.
ETS - 15, November, 2011 (15:03)

Oh Lorikeet, once more you demonstrate ignorance by jumping to conclusions. I rise every morning before 7.00 am. You were probably being flippant, but that extra couple of hours rest would be most beneficial for you. Or perhaps you could use the time to learn about the IMF instead of parroting the fringe clichés you pick up from other blogs less balanced than this one. That you continue to misrepresent the IMF (as you previously did with the CSIRO) just undermines any latent accuracy that might be concealed in your comments.

You may well be right about dementia. Usually the sufferer is the last to realise it, if they ever do. I’m sure your family and friends can attest to that.

PS this is not an abusive message, just a response to your personal comments about me.
ETS - 15, November, 2011 (14:51)

Well gee Sue Do-Nim, where were you when other respected bloggers were calling the Prime Minister names? Some of the worst names I have heard a politician called? Your silence was deafening. I suspect your outrage at Taliban Tony Abbott (I love the way it flows off the tongue) is because in your heart or your subconscious you know how accurate it is. Either that or you are upset at such an appropriate name for Taliban Tony. Your outrage would be commendable if it were consistent. It is the sort of name that could well catch on.

That you remember fart jokes from your school days does not surprise me at all. I remember other things from those times and I have to say that even as a kid I never found fart jokes all that interesting. But I won’t criticise you for that. Different things for different minds I suppose.
Lorikeet - 15, November, 2011 (14:18)

Why would the USA be stockpiling mass produced, black plastic, 4 berth "grave liners"?

Are they expecting an act of biological warfare?

A disease outbreak of mammoth proportions?

An alien invasion from another planet?

Large scale slaughter of their political opponents?

Why is the USA using Biospheres (which were supposed to be used for environmental purposes) to train large armies of UN troops?

For that matter, why are USA soldiers going to be our constant companions with an army base up in Darwin?

Are they expecting some kind of invasion to occur here?

Will several of these bases be set up throughout the country to pacify, imprison or murder political prisoners?
Lorikeet - 15, November, 2011 (14:11)

I have long suspected that ETS could be a dementia sufferer. He says he doesn't insult other people, but look at his latest juvenile offerings.

"Early to bed and early to rise keeps you healthy, wealthy and wise."

Now we know why ETS goes to bed very late and sleeps in!

Money lent has to be subtracted from the black column. Getting the loan repaid is becoming more of a long shot.

Do banks lend money to those who are destitute? No? To those who are both destitute and in debt? No?

If the IMF keeps bailing out countries in the EEU, eventually there will be no money left in anyone's kitty, except perhaps those of China, which will then "own" the lion's share of the globe.

This would fit in with Wayne Swan constantly saying that the 21st century will be the Asian Century, and we know exactly which part of Asia he means.
Sue Do-Nim - 15, November, 2011 (12:44)

ETS:

At your stage of life if you’re "still chuckling” at someone calling the leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition, “Taliban Tony Abbott”, then I’ve got some fart jokes that I remember from primary school that you might find highly amusing.

Glibly condoning the application of such an offensive moniker to a decent, hardworking ,Christian, family man is not only churlish and trite but also debases any further contributions you make to this online discussion.

“Ditch the Witch” ,was undoubtedly an unsavoury term but it pales when comparing it to this latest offering.

What rationale are you going to espouse to justify the continued use of this offensive name?
ETS - 15, November, 2011 (12:03)

Lorikeet, you get up too early if you are posting messages at 5:47 am. You might shake the cobwebs from the bunga bunga party with a bit more sleep.

Australia’s contribution to the IMF is not giving money away. You really should read Brian Storm’s messages again. If the contribution is drawn on (very likely in my view) then it becomes a loan, not a gift and Australia will receive interest on the loan. The contribution is to the IMF, not to any country, a distinction Brian made but you seem to have missed. I’m glad one of us reads Brian’s messages and doesn’t try to misinterpret them.

If you have any remaining doubts, perhaps your son could explain them.:)
ETS - 15, November, 2011 (11:54)

Interesting discussion so far. Taliban Tony Abbott – I’m still chuckling over that one. Sue, unless you are one of a very small minority who thinks the Taliban is a force for good in the world, then of course it is derogatory. But it is appropriate given TTA’s constant negativity, his willingness to wreck the workings of Parliament for his own short term advantage and his self-imposed role as gatekeeper of our morals. I hope we hear from Son of Lorikeet again.

As for Bob Katter, he is not a bad bloke and I think his party will touch a popular nerve in parts of Queensland, much as One Nation did, probably with a similar result. I don’t know if they will win any House of Reps seats but I can readily see them picking up a Senate seat. Fun times in the Upper House.
Robyn - 15, November, 2011 (11:22)

Kay and Bob,

When I said Katter is a "nice" nutter, I was only going by the way he came across during media exposure a week or 2 post the election. Prior to that time and since that time I have not given him a thought. He does appear to be merged with life as it is in far north Qld and has little or no significance nationally. I agree that his party will be a fizzer.
Lorikeet - 15, November, 2011 (10:44)

Oakeshott, Windsor and Wilkie are rural politicians who have publicly accepted huge televised bribes from Labor. In their electorates, they are considered the scum of the earth.

The upcoming Queensland state election will tell us how popular Katter's Australian Party and the Queensland Party are.

People here are sick of third world hospitals, shortage of public housing, and schools which can only outperform the NT due to overcrowding, substandard curricula and poor disciplinary standards.

Even those who hated Joh B-P know that he ran excellent public schools and hospitals, and a very good public dental program in schools. He also didn't sell off the people's income producing assets and utilities so that we could all shell out more in both government taxes and corporate ripoffs.

Some people are not paying attention to Liberals helping to rack up a huge foreign debt. A budget surplus is not much use with another much larger "blowout" in place.
Lorikeet - 15, November, 2011 (10:34)

What? Bob Katter lacks inertia? That's a comment I would definitely agree with.

$100 says that Oakeshott and Windsor will be thrown out at the next election ... unsure about Wilkie.

It took thousands of us a lot of work to remove Malcolm Turnbull from the Liberal Party leadership. The guy is a merchant banker, and very eager to financially clean up with his Carbon Trading Scheme.

A society needs a good set of rules to live by, partly because it is more economically useful. An "almost anything goes" type of attitude is not only amoral, but highly damaging to a nation across a broad spectrum of considerations.

I have quite extensively discussed various issues with the Greens over a number of years, and even most of them are polite.
Kay Kelly - 15, November, 2011 (10:14)

Bob:

I used to have a bit of a soft spot for Katter - a maverick that represented his electorate well. No longer. The main message I get from him is that he is all about hunting, shooting and fishing - these issues traditionally being dear to the heart of both the 'landed gentry' and the usual rednecks. I dare say he is frustrated about his lack of influence versus the power wielded at present by Oakeshott, Windsor and Wilkie. I think about all he will achieve in Queensland is to make the re-election of Bligh more likely (god forbid)!
Kay Kelly - 15, November, 2011 (9:22)

Bob B:

I agree with you, Bob. Tony Abbott's constant negativity on ALL matters is becoming tiresome. Malcolm turnbull is the obvious choice. But I would not support an ETS for Australia ahead of our major trading nations bringing in some similar arrangement.

How was the forum on aged care yesterday?
Bob B - 15, November, 2011 (9:17)

I should have added - forget Katter the mad hatter as he will be just a flash in the pan that will likely destabilise rather than forge the country ahead logically.

To me its a sign of his frustration of not being able to infuence as he wishes that led him to this approach. Good on him but he won't be successful as he lack the inertia to do so.
Bob B - 15, November, 2011 (9:14)

The Libs do ned a new leader to take them out of this negativity malaise which is now an impossibility for Abbott. As I have said before, reasonable oppostion is a good thing but when its constant no no no and with no acknowledgement of a good approach or providing sound alternatives then that defeats good opposition.

Abbott should go now for the good of the party.
Robyn - 15, November, 2011 (9:05)

"Katter has been hitting his head against a brick wall in the parliament for decades" (Lorikeet, 15 Nov 5:27)

No wonder he's nutty!
Robyn - 15, November, 2011 (8:34)

Entirely agree with you Kay.
Robyn - 15, November, 2011 (8:14)

Good morning all. Beautiful day here in my neck of the woods.

I also interpreted SoL's post 14 Nov (19:31) as tongue in cheek. If I was wrong, I hope he tells me so that I can take back my stated love.

Sue Do-Nim,
If Tony Abbott was still a priest he would probably have Pell's spot by now. That's pretty close to Taliban. Aren't they best mates? Does anyone else remember the proclamation he made about being the gatekeeper of our morals? Also, he dictated some statement about women needing to remain "pure" until marriage. He is sexist!
His inability to separate Church and State is a worry. The Libs would do well to replace him with Malcolm Turnbull.
Kay Kelly - 15, November, 2011 (7:30)

Good morning, Helen. How's the Hawkesbury?

Re your new topic. I have previously said I am really only Blue on economic matters. I am very liberal on social issues. As I said before, I really worry about the possibility of a very religious Minister/PM making decisions based on their religious views rather than what is best for the country and its citizens - I recall Tony Abbott doing that as Health Minister. In fact, I would like to see the prayer in Parliament dispensed with! I abhor any connection between religion and the State!

And no, I don't see why we can't proceed with issues such as gay marriage, organ donation, abortion, religion and euthanasia. Debate on all of these matters is sadly influenced by people's religious beliefs rather than the actual practical issues. It is the practical issues we should be debating, not some moralistic posturings.
Helen - 15, November, 2011 (6:58)

My you all have been busy hee hee haa haa haaa!
Let's start a new thread -
What right has anyone got to impose their views on others re Gay marriage, abortion, organ donation, religion and deciding on whether someone has the right to die or not etc

Another reason I admire our PM is because she has the guts to live her life her own way & not impose her beliefs on others whilst "respecting" the views of others. Abbott is definitely not like this. I feel he dictates his views & would do so even more if he was ever PM (that's when the pick pigs fly backwards).
I hope you all have a good fight over this today (I am out until later on) cheers...
Kay Kelly - 15, November, 2011 (6:48)

Good morning all! You had a busy evening!

I think SoL is just doing a tongue-in-cheek posting using just about all of Lorikeet's descriptors.

I agree with you, rmcn. Labor's track record with managing money is scary! It has a propensity to rack up huge deficits that the Liberals have to pay off. Then, when the Libs accumulate a nice surplus, Labor gets back in and starts spending like a drunken sailor! It was the Coalition's surplus that cushioned us through the GFC. Rudd spent money like there was no tomorrow! The eventual return to a Coalition government will require them to, once again, pay down the deficit and return us to surplus. Wayne Swan will never achieve this.

However, Hawke and Keating were responsible for bringing in many structural reforms in the economy that benefited Australia long-term. Even people like Howard and Costello acknowledged their excellent efforts in that regard.
Lorikeet - 15, November, 2011 (5:47)

ETS:

Well, what makes you think that Australia making an extra contribution to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) would have no effect on our foreign debt?

Basic accounting knowledge should tell us that when we give extra money away, it has to come from somewhere. If it comes from the current federal budget (which is in deficit already, with the government borrowing an average of 100 million per day) and we have a 12 digit foreign debt, isn't Julia Gillard deliberately jumping out of the financial frying pan into a fiery abyss?
Lorikeet - 15, November, 2011 (5:38)

Perhaps this fourth son of mine also considers Tony Abbott to be a dangerous bully.

I know he was instrumental in having Pauline Hanson thrown in the slammer for speaking out against undemocratic processes sending our nation slowly but inexorably closer to the precipice.
Lorikeet - 15, November, 2011 (5:35)

This comment about "Taliban Tony Abbott" could be interpreted as follows.

It could mean that Abbott supports Australia's continuing involvement in the war in Afghanistan and the related heroin trade.
Perhaps the writer also understands better than most that Labor/Liberals are running a duopoly which is largely controlled by Global Masters from the UN.

I have seen Alan Kohler on the TV speaking of Global Masters. So now we have quite a number of terms that are quite openly used by economists at the National Press Club and on political programs:

Global Government
World Sector
Global Masters

Stay tuned for more.
Lorikeet - 15, November, 2011 (5:27)

Nottakeet:

I was referring to the table and graphs on the first page that appears. They show very clearly that foreign debt is outstripping inflation by a large margin, and has been ramped up by both Labor and Liberals since Whitlam signed the Lima Declaration (1975).

ETS:

I am not misrepresenting anything.

All:

Katter has been hitting his head against a brick wall in the parliament for decades. I believe an alliance of DLP, Katter's AP, QP and later Nationals would restore this country's manufacturing industries which are currently knocking at death's door.

No work = No money for pensions.
Robyn - 14, November, 2011 (21:54)

Well SoL has given us (and Lorikeet) something to think about. Is he or isn't he?

I agree with both Lorikeet and rmcn about Bob Katter. He is both a nutter and nice. A nice nutter!
Sue Do-Nim - 14, November, 2011 (21:52)

“Taliban Tony Abbott”....I don’t get it.

Is this the new argot for senior bloggers?

I assume the phrase is derogatory.

Could someone Please Explain.

My I.Q. is definitely not in the top percentile so I’d be genuinely grateful to anyone who could enlighten me.
ETS - 14, November, 2011 (21:14)

Lorikeet, you should re-read Brian Storm's messages since you rate him so highly. He explained very clearly about the IMF funding and the connection with Greece. You are misrepresenting the situation and you do know better than that.

No wonder Brian never agrees with you.
Bob B - 14, November, 2011 (21:11)

Look at the language used by Son of Lorikeet. Reminisient of anyone or just a cheap immitation?

A new term though Taliban Tony Abbott. Why kick him when the vote was taken in the Senate where he has no vote. He has limited time so he used dead time here to put to use overseas. In his mind it had to be done sometime when his calendar was clear. Simple to me but then again I've been accussed of that previously.

It's back to ignoring Lorikeet again as a brief trial of some communication with her proved to be a failure.
ETS - 14, November, 2011 (21:10)

Oh dear, I stand chastised and corrected. I was only trying to save Laurakeet some stress through useful ways of managing her anger. Righteous indignation is of course the only kind worth having.

Son of Lorikeet is interesting. Taliban Tony, what an accurate name - suits him pretty well. I wonder if SoL really is who he says. He does sound like his mum. He could be the guy saving us from the Russians and Chinese.

Just saw a show about the mission to kill Osama bin Laden. It was dramatised too much for my liking but it shows how well organised and thorough the Americans were in ensuring the job got done.
Robyn - 14, November, 2011 (20:50)

Love you Son of Lorikeet. What a great laugh. "Taliban Tony Abbott" is the perfect descriptor.

ETS. Why attempt to smother Laurakeet's anger? Now that was gatekeeping! It is healthy to feel angry when something feels wrong. Her comment at (17:45) was great.

Much energy on the blog tonight. Nice to see your typical resilient spring back from victimhood Lorikeet.
rmcn - 14, November, 2011 (20:41)

Sorry Lorikeet, but Katter comes across as a bit of a nutter to me!! And we really dont need people voting for obscure parties because "I dont like the two main ones" or we end up once more with the country held ransom by the Greens.
And it amazes me that older people cant look back and see the damage the Labor Party has done in the past. Never has been responsible with spending and leaves Liberals to bail the country out of huge debt.
Now this really has little to do with Italy does it!!! Except that we will be in the same position in a few years unless we get this utterly wretched Government out.....
WEG - 14, November, 2011 (20:32)

Thanks for the Q?.

As I said before, I don’t share the optimism in relation to Euro Union surviving. Italy now needs a competent government to make the hard decisions. Large structural reforms for Italy will be complex.
“Super Mario” is just not another economist banker, but a highly credentialed person in the European community. He’ll form a ‘coalition’ of sorts, and in my opinion is Italy’s best bet for revival.
Nottakeet - 14, November, 2011 (20:01)

Lorikeet
Like you I wish to get the discussion back on track. As a poorly informed, lower echelon, sand encrusted, simple minded soul could you use your superior intelligence and wisdom to point out which of the 8 graphs and 9 tables I should look at in http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/rp/2008-09/09rp30.htm
Lorikeet - 14, November, 2011 (19:56)

rmcn:

What don't you like about Katter? I had dinner and a chat with him at a conference and listened to his speech. He cares about his country and is a very good man at heart.

Son (Probably Not) of Lorikeet:

So Tony Abbott goes overseas to get directions from the global bosses. This is not a recent revelation, but the coincidence with the Carbon Tax is worth "filing" for later reference.
Lorikeet - 14, November, 2011 (19:52)

Sorry I meant we have a 12 digit foreign debt. It's so large it's become quite easy to miscount the zeroes.
Lorikeet - 14, November, 2011 (19:48)

Son of Lorikeet??? Who is that???

WEG:

A good point has been made about Wayne Swan and the fact he is now predicting a Budget Deficit, which came as no surprise.

If Julia Gillard lends money to Greece through the IMF, it will have to come from borrowed funds (knowing our luck, from China), since we have a 9 digit foreign debt ourselves.

I think it would be quite foolhardy to loan anyone money we don't even have. Also the likelihood of Greece defaulting on the loan is enormous.

Loans of borrowed money which are unlikely to be repaid will put us exactly where UN bankers want us.

The new leader of Italy is Super Mario, another economist banker. If he's anything like the communists floated by the government at the National Press Club, Italy will quickly be flushed straight down the gurgler.

What do you think?
Son of Lorikeet - 14, November, 2011 (19:31)

Who would have thought in the week when the Slave Labor Party and the pagan greens passed the evil carbon tax law that will destroy Australia that Opposition Leader Taliban Tony Abbott would clear off to London to take instructions from his global bosses.
rmcn - 14, November, 2011 (18:56)

Well, I thought one claim to greatest Treasurer in the world was ample. And Swan hasn't mastered the supercilious sneer of the great Keating (who despite being the greatest, didnt know how to complete a tax return)
ETS - 14, November, 2011 (18:53)

Laurakeet, sometimes it is better not to blog in anger. Take some deep breaths, have a glass of wine with a spouse/partner/friend, or go for a walk. It does wonders. Having said that, you did not write anything wrong or disagreeable. This blog shows clearly that genius (even self-assessed) and ignorance are not mutually exclusive.

A few words about gatekeeping. WEG keeps raising the subject in a rather disingenuous way by pointing the finger then denying he had anyone specific in mind. I reckon if he wants to say something, say it and don’t try to be cute.

The definition of gatekeeping is inconsistent and subjective. Apparently if you voice an opinion on another comment and WEG disagrees then you are a gatekeeper, but you will not be named as such. It does not apply to WEG and as far as I can see, never to Lorikeet.

It is appropriate to discuss this nonsense on a page about Berlusconi.
WEG - 14, November, 2011 (18:39)

rmcn – You’ve spotted my comment re the black duck. I must admit though, my sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.
rmcn - 14, November, 2011 (18:18)

Oh dear, you're all at it like little kids again!! Cant you let each other have a say without condescending remarks?
WEG, I agree there should be some civility in these discussions. And on saying that I'm quite sure you will be quite civil if I say surely you were joking about Wayne Swan and a budget surplus?? He has wasted the surplus left by the Liberals a couple of years ago..... Once again with a Labor (cant they spell?) party we have horrendous debt
Lorikeet, goodness they all love to pick on you!! Dont buckle under with their "good natured banter" But puleeze, not Katter's Australia Party. Do I have to say why.....
Kay Kelly - 14, November, 2011 (18:11)

WEG:

In the past we have debated many of Lorikeet's offerings in an intelligent, civilised manner. Lorikeet's inevitable response to such debates is to simply accuse us of being simple minded, not able to understand anything we read, having our heads in the sand, having no brains at all etc etc etc. Such civilised, rational debate appears beyond Lorikeet. As for the rest of us - yes, we do listen and learn from each other in a very civil manner, as befits mature seniors. And we enjoy doing so.
Alan - 14, November, 2011 (18:09)

Ex PM Silvio Berlusconi is a charismatic nuisance best forgotten.

A bit like our own totally inept/useless PM JuliaR Gillard. No-one will remember her at all in the history books but for the many extra taxes we did'nt need but got with the help of her own 'Green' Commie members.

Can we get her out of power too? We don't need more of her policies any more than a 2nd belly-button.

RE LORIKEET: I agree. She is entitled to her opinion. I am also sick and tired of holier-than-thou show-me-the-money comments from others. Let it go and move onto something else - you Socialists lefties are most insulting..... and got yr head firmly stuck in the sand.
Laurakeet - 14, November, 2011 (18:03)

WEG, you are gatekeeping by that statement... I thought you were against gatekeeping.

Pity the only factual statement is the APH reference. You may think the rest are clear, concise and well positioned. What a shame they are also fanciful misleading nonsense. Otherwise there would be something sensible to discuss.
WEG - 14, November, 2011 (17:52)

The last few blogs from Lorikeet were clear, concise and quite well positioned.

I don’t necessarily agree with all the points, but they’re not too far removed, where we Seniors could not debate with some civility.

We live, we share, we learn.
Lorikeet - 14, November, 2011 (17:48)

For those who wish to get the discussion back on track, here is a link to the Australian Parliamentary Records on Foreign Debt 1976-2008. There are graphs and a table for all to see.

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/rp/2008-09/09rp30.htm
Laurakeet - 14, November, 2011 (17:45)

Thank you Kay, you summed up my feelings too.

Sick of it, we are also sick of it. Read Lorikeet’s last three messages and you will be even sicker of it. This is a public blog as you say and we should be able to disagree without copping a condescending gobful from someone who, despite her allegedly high IQ, is unable to distinguish fact from fantasy.

ETS asked her to put up or shut up. Typically, despite her alleged genius, she can do neither. I am angry as I type this but I don’t consider this comment to be abusive, just a statement of fact.

WEG, what’s with the gatekeeper comment? I don’t get it. If you think anyone on the blog controls what goes on then you are wrong. Only the Moderator does that. Or is it about our comments? By commenting on other people’s messages, does that not make you the gatekeeper?
Lorikeet - 14, November, 2011 (17:42)

Kay, that's completely untrue. If you go down a few comments, you will see other even worse things being said about me by an unqualified disrespectful person.

You are new to this blog and don't know what some of these people are really like. If you wish to bully other posters (against the rules), be careful what alliances you form.

The Moderator doesn't do her job, and therein lies the main problem.
Kay Kelly - 14, November, 2011 (17:11)

Thank you, Lorikeet, for another of your sweet, sensitive and very intelligent offerings! You do yourself proud!

But, you are right, 'Sick of it' - we do give Lorikeet far too much attention! Acid offerings like her latest (16.45) are probably a cry for attention, and we oblige! Maybe completely ignoring her is the way to go. Yes, she is entitled to her point of view, but actually, so are we! No other blogger attacks the intelligence and abilities of other bloggers - only Lorikeet does that.
Lorikeet - 14, November, 2011 (17:06)

Let me make it clear that I am certainly not jealous of what some people call "good natured banter".

People who have no real idea of the serious issues our nation is facing are certainly not my preferred company.

I am also not spending the day setting out all of the instances of abuse, because there are too many.

Arthur Mac is a nice person. He certainly knows when someone is being abused by a group of schoolyard bullies.

It is okay to counter someone's argument, but it is not okay to attack anyone personally or to discuss them with others in a negative fashion on the blog.

The main problem with this blog is that it has no Moderator who looks at everything before it goes on public view.
Lorikeet - 14, November, 2011 (16:57)

Laurie:

The corporate neo-communist is the new breed. This is the banker or the ultra-large company such as Woolworths, and the political parties which support them (e.g. supplying slave labour, reducing consumer rights).

Both Labor and Liberals are corporate neo-communists.

When Whitlam signed the Lima Declaration, the net effect was to sell out our farmers and manufacturers to the third world, and to proceed to rack up a huge foreign debt.

When Paul Keating signed the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade over to the UN, he gave away our sovereign right to reject foreign goods.

Now Rudd/Gillard are bringing in a Carbon Tax to ramp up debt at an even more rapid pace.

Liberals will support a Carbon Trading Scheme.

Rudd said he expects us to form an Asia/Pacific Economic Union by 2020 (third world nations!).

One look at what is happening in the EEU should be ringing alarm bells for everyone.
Lorikeet - 14, November, 2011 (16:45)

I'm sick of it as well, but this pursuit by the same people each week tells us they know they have been outargued, or are afraid to face certain facts due to fear.

In the federal parliament and elsewhere, Labor/Greens are running scared of the DLP, Katter's Australian Party and (in the Sunshine State) the Queensland Party. Even Liberals are worried.

We intend to press on regardless of abuse by the less well informed, those who are easily indoctrinated with fairytales, and those with vested interests who do the wrong thing by Australians.

Sick of It:

Sorry, mate, but you got something wrong. I have an IQ in the top 2% of the population and am also a Box Brain. I had to tell the habitual abusers these facts because they kept saying I had no brains, when that problem mainly lay at their end.
WEG - 14, November, 2011 (16:25)

Well said “Sick of it - 14, November, 2011 (15:58)” – must be a full moon – the gatekeepers are at it again.
Sick of it - 14, November, 2011 (15:58)

For God’s sake can we please get over this fixation with Lorikeet? She is no smarter or dumber than anyone else so why get so uptight about her? I agree it wasn’t abuse, but so what? She is entitled to her opinion. I am sick and tired of holier-than-thou show-me-the-money comments. Let it go and move onto something else. If Lorikeet is craving attention then you guys are really giving it to her. Guess what? Now you’ve got me doing it too.

OK, you can tell me I don’t have to read the blog. But it is a public blog. Take my word for it, it is getting boring reading the same old same old about her on every page. Get a life guys, there’s more to it than Lorikeet.
Laurie Keats - 14, November, 2011 (15:47)

To my singular homonym
You have to decide whether you want to participating in a sheltered workshop for the delusional where none of your comments are challenged or in a blog where fact and arguments are put forward in rational debate. My blog did not insult you. It just demolished your arguments so much so that you have not been able to respond but went off on a tangent about declining manufacture. Again I ask what kind of a communist was Whitlam? You cannot answer because he is and was not a communist.
It might be best for Lorikeet to be allowed her sheltered workshop while the rest ignore her and talk about real things
WEG - 14, November, 2011 (14:45)

I don’t share the optimism in relation to Europe.

Italy needs to ‘find’ a competent government to make the hard decisions. Large structural reforms for Italy will be complex. Greece will be removed from the Euro, their people will experience high inflation, a huge devaluation of their currency, and a further drop in their assets valuations.

Once the Italians see and understand this fact, there will be one almighty rush to move their substantial private capital / savings into other markets. Italy & the Euro-union will crash.

Australia should provide as much support as possible. Let’s second Wayne Swan to assist Silvio Berlusconi’s replacement to manage them though this mess. He has magnificent form with Australia’s public debt and providing budget surpluses.
Laurakeet - 14, November, 2011 (14:35)

ETS, your two messages today are a valuable contribution to the discussion of abuse. I looked again at yesterday’s messages. There was nothing abusive or suggesting abuse, just a good humoured discussion until a certain person showed up later in the day. I agree with you and Robyn that accusations of abuse are important and must be supported by evidence. Repeated complaints from the same person without cause seem frivolous and you rightly state that abuse is a very serious matter.

It is interesting how the topic has developed. It started with Berlusconi and alleged abuses of power, went through abuse of power by dictators and now is focussed on online abuse.
ETS - 14, November, 2011 (13:36)

Hi Arthur. Since you referred to me specifically please let me respond.

First, abuse is totally unacceptable. If a person feels abused, it is very serious and is sufficient reason to investigate the charge. It does not necessarily follow however that the person was abused. Sensitivities come into play. Blog discussions can be robust and disagreements are not necessarily abusive.

You say it is not about me. At the risk of being misunderstood I would say if I am being accused of abuse then it is definitely about me as much as the person accusing me. I am entitled to ask for evidence of abuse without that request being called abusive.

The frequency of accusations and scattergun range against so many bloggers, without supporting evidence, say more about the accuser than her targets. More importantly though, they trivialise the seriousness of abuse and show a lack of respect or compassion for genuine victims of abuse in all its forms.
Bob B - 14, November, 2011 (13:03)

Arthur Mac

We all learn during life to adjust our thoughts/impulse etc to curb excesses. Input from others is what usually steers this. If you are constantly telling people they are making you 'feel' like you are being abused then you usually learn from this and adjust you behaviour. In reality learn what abuse realy is! What is happening here starts with a simple disagreement that is normal in duscussion making her feel abused and then letting loose with a tirade far worse than the supposed abuser put in the first place.

My friend, you are on a looser here so give up before you let yourself down.
Robyn - 14, November, 2011 (11:38)

Helen,

Yes John is really Lorikeet. So is Geoff and Claude.

Arthur Mac:

You have made a very strong statement and at times, like you, I do feel some genuine empathy for Lorikeet. I know her feelings are easily hurt and I suspect that she likes to have her contributions admired rather than argued against. I have said before, that is not realistic expectation of a blog and does not facilitate any personal learning (on her part). My little spurts of empathy are usually dissolved as I and others come under further abusive onslaught. You are always very biased in your defense of Lorikeet and never display the same empathy for other bloggers feelings when she insults and derides. You know very well that we have tried appealing to her to develop some personal insight into her behaviour toward others, but to no avail.
Robyn - 14, November, 2011 (10:45)

I support ETS's challenge to Lorikeet to be specific when she accuses others of abusing her. His entire comment 14 Nov (7:20) says it all really, and in particular "You have been carrying on with this line for long enough and it is time you were held to account about it."
Robyn - 14, November, 2011 (10:41)

I had to knock off early yesterday. So much has happened since then - where to begin?

What stands most forward are comments about friendship and enjoyment of the NS blogs. My feelings exactly. Great to have so many intelligent and interesting people regularly contributing to our blog community. Was really enjoying yesterdays discussion until thunderstorms got in the way.

Also want to thank you moderator for reinstating some of our earlier blog strands.

I don't know what sparked Lorikeet's comment at 13 Nov (15:00) and at the time chose to ignore it. I see now that it did get the attention turned back onto her and perhaps that is what inspired it (unconsciously) in the first place.
to be continued
Arthur Mac - 14, November, 2011 (9:27)

Lorikeet does get abused on the blog. You are all doing it this morning. If she feels abuse, then she is abused. That’s all there is to it. It isn’t about you ETS and the others. It is Lorikeet’s feelings that matter. You are not the victim here, she is.
Helen - 14, November, 2011 (9:17)

Laurakeet, she could be anyone of we informed, intelligent, forthright individuals of both genders. There is only one person she couldn't be.

A bit busy just now, I'll pop in later for a look, see & giggle.

My favourite band is a group called "Simply Bushed". go through to their web site and click on a video clip called "The Great Australian Love song" if you want a good belly laugh for the day.
Cheers...x
Bob B - 14, November, 2011 (8:57)

Kay Kelly

I too once thought she was 'lobbing a grenade' by now I'm not so sure. We have all appealled to her for a little bit of humour which seems to pass her by - but then again, she might be having a ball leading us all on.
Bob B - 14, November, 2011 (8:54)

Sue Do-Nim

No offence meant and I'm sure you didn't take any. Feel free to copyright 'Sue Do-Nim' as that leave me free to use 'sue do nim'. An interesting one for the lawyers reminincent of Ugg Boot.

I'm now off to the aged care forum at Robina put on by NSA. Should be a good discussion.
Kay Kelly - 14, November, 2011 (8:37)

I wonder if Lorikeet gets jealous of our obvious friendships on this blog? I think sometimes she lobs a grenade (insulting words - "simple minded", "head in the sand" etc and much worse) - just to get us to respond. Then, when we respond with humorous banter, she goes crying to the Moderator in her inimitable 'why is everybody always picking on me?' theme. I think she just loves our critical banter!! It certainly doesn't discourage her participation, so it can't be all that bad for her! And I do love her alter-egos, by whatever name - they are fun. I think this blog is a great Alzheimers prevention exercise.
Kay Kelly - 14, November, 2011 (8:27)

Yes, I agree with you, Laurakeet. I feel as though I have made a new circle of friends on this blog - even though most of my new friends are Green and I'm a washed out Blue! I happen to agree that Abbott's continued negativity about absolutely everything is getting a bit tiresome. I am always worried too about anyone with very strong religious beliefs as they can't always separate their beliefs from their legislative responsibilities to the general public. I abhor a lack of separation between the State and religion.

I don't believe the Carbon Tax is as popular as some of you believe, but I can't claim I have been personally adversely affected (yet) by any of this government's actions. Only time will tell how things will go as we move towards the 2013? election.
Sue Do-Nim - 14, November, 2011 (8:25)

Mr.Bob B. Pleeeease remember.:

thou shalst not take MY "Sue Do-Nim" in Vain.
There will be Copyright and patent pending issues if you continue!
Bob B - 14, November, 2011 (8:23)

Laurakeet

Politics is a strange beast - Julia is rising but Abbott is not. I think you are right about the negativity - its one thing to oppose but to be constantly negative will turn around and bite him. Personally, I think the party needs a new leader with a more reasonable approach if it is to slow the rising fortunes of Julia.

I too would like more detail on how the not so new government has caused hardship for us seniors as I don't see it. Some hardship is evident from the GFC but tht is not of Labor's doing, in fact we are better off as individuals because of how the GFC was handled. Australia has a massive debt as a consequence though.
Bob B - 14, November, 2011 (8:11)

Helen

I think Lorikeet has a 'peculiar term of phase' that would expose her under any su do nim. Its just the way she writes and the commonly reoccurring phrases that gives her away.

Now I could have some real fun for a while using the su do nim Ita - oh the devil in me.
Laurakeet - 14, November, 2011 (8:06)

Julia Gillard’s breakthrough in the polls is a welcome change but it is too soon to call it a turnaround. Abbott is still in the box seat for the next election and will be hard pressed to claim to be the underdog. I think the people are starting to realise that Gillard is not so bad after all and Abbott’s endless negativity is starting to work against him. About time.

I also think people are genuinely pleased the Clean Energy Future bill passed through Parliament. When Gillard said there would be no carbon tax under her government she did not rule out an emissions trading scheme and we will have one in 2015. I’m surprised a free enterprise party like the Liberals does not support a market based carbon price.

I too would like the critics of the Government to be specific about how the Government’s legislation since the election has actually hurt them, instead of ranting with slogans.
Bob B - 14, November, 2011 (8:05)

Thank you National Seniors for putting the old comments back up. I did miss some when other duties took me away on the day(s) around change.

We can now go back to validate claims made by some about previously hidden comments as well top up on useful info.
Laurakeet - 14, November, 2011 (7:58)

Hi Helen, I wonder if Ita ever writes on this blog… she could be any one of us. Sensible words and I agree that this blog is a good outlet for we seniors to put their views and talk to each other. I won’t get gushy but I have met kindred spirits in a short time on the blog.

Like ETS I want to thank the Moderator for putting the older comments back on the blog. I haven’t read them all yet but I am keen to go over them and see the tone of the debates. It should be good reading and I think I can guess what some comments will be like.
Helen - 14, November, 2011 (7:35)

Ita Buttrose has always been a hero of mine and I admire her tremendously. I read a statement from her which went -

We must wear our age with pride and dignity

This blog proves to me that we are doing just that. Being able to have an opinion & even laugh at one's self is a refreshing attribute. Having no sense of humour is a very sad affair.

Lorikeet get real & laugh at least once in the day. You take things far too seriously. I sense that you live alone and perhaps we should feel sorry for you (I'm still waiting for your list too) re how you have actually suffered financially with the current" Gillard" government. I am more interested in this than your crying into the keyboard bit!...
Helen - 14, November, 2011 (7:27)

Good morning everyone! Good to see you have been all active!

Is John (really Lorikeet) in disguise?

I noticed our PMs ratings have gone up & Abbot's are travelling in the reverse, funny that. It was also stated that our PM is looking more like a Leader everyday (& Abbott the reverse). Success builds success. What a strange place the world of Politics is.

I knew our PM would shine through, onward & upward from hereon & thoooooo to all you disbelievers!...
ETS - 14, November, 2011 (7:20)

Lorikeet, that is not good enough. When you accuse someone of abusing you, it is a very serious accusation and you need to be specific about it. I re-read yesterday's messages and I still cannot find anything I would call abusive.

You have been carrying on with this line for long enough and it is time you were held to account about it. Disagreement is not abuse and calling it abuse shows little respect for people who are victims of genuine cyber abuse and bullying and who do need protection.

I expect you will call this message abusive. It isn't.
Lorikeet - 14, November, 2011 (6:32)

When people band together to make fun of one person, or misrepresent her previous offerings, that constitutes abuse.

I shall await a reply from Brian Storm if he wishes to give one. I will not waste further time and energy on the various abusers on this blog.

ETS is well aware of the type of communist to which I have been referring, since I have told him many times.
ETS - 13, November, 2011 (21:31)

I don't know if anybody has noticed, but all the comments on other topics over the past few weeks have been reinstated.

Thank you Moderator for doing that. Much appreciated.

It's 10.30 here in Sydney Town. Bedtime for me too I think... 'night all.
Laurakeet - 13, November, 2011 (21:22)

ETS, I agree with your comments about today's discussion. I think Dieter and Bob B both wrote interesting messages and other people had sensible comments to make. I also could not see any abusive messages. There was a bit of humour at someone's expense but you would be hard put to say that was abuse.

Bedtime for us now. Goodnight everyone.
ETS - 13, November, 2011 (21:16)

You didn't answer the question Lorikeet, which is not unusual. Be specific about the abuse please. I cannot see any abusive messages about you today. The only abuse has come from you.

I know you find it hard to be precise when you are put on the spot but please stay with me on this and say who has abused you as it will be a big help in finding out exactly what your problem is.

Can you do that much please? Thank you.
Lorikeet - 13, November, 2011 (21:04)

This just goes to show how one-eyed ETS can be. I guess he is used to believing that rude obnoxious people such as himself and his immature mates are actually nice.
ETS - 13, November, 2011 (20:19)

I was totally impressed with the contributions from so many people today. It was a good discussion, polite and intelligent. I think the Moderator will be equally impressed when she reads it tomorrow.

The tempo changed and now John has returned to the blog. Are you the only Lorikeet persona to grace us this week or can we expect Geoff and the other bloke? No matter, you are all the same, literally.

Laurakeet explained her name a couple of weeks ago, not that she needed to, and it actually has nothing to do with our noisy little Lorikeet. Seems not everything is about you Lori.

But seriously I cannot see anything abusive from any of the comments posted here today. Lorikeet, if you make that claim, back it up with evidence please – which messages are you referring to? Be specific. If you can't do that, please don't expect anybody to take your whinging seriously.
John - 13, November, 2011 (19:55)

Lorikeet easily outclasses you childish bunch every week. Not that the task is hard.

The rise of the copy cat birds [Laurakeet and Parakeet] and the return of the acid tongued goanna are proof enough for me.
Lorikeet - 13, November, 2011 (19:27)

Laurie, mate, I will try to ignore your insults and state that you are many years behind the times.

If you haven't read the various treaties, agreements and declarations signed by Labor over the decades, I suggest you do it without further delay.

Have you ever wondered why most of our manufacturing industries have gone to the third world?

Or why we are now a net importer of pork, seafood, fruit and vegetables?

How about the Carbon Tax that has been designed to take our nation down on the world stage, by a person whose nose could easily circumnavigate the globe after telling us a colossal lie?

What about our foreign debt, amounting to hundreds of billions of dollars?

Perhaps you don't care about our country, but some of us do.
Lorikeet - 13, November, 2011 (19:18)

I was referring to several people's comments.

The Moderator is going to be hopping mad on Monday morning when she sees that her rules are being abused again.

Even the reptile is back to his chronic abuse again.

It's a sad day when so many awful people think they should gang up on one woman.

Thankfully for every one of you, there are several people who do the right thing.
Bob B - 13, November, 2011 (19:18)

Monitor

Very apt - I like it.
Kay Kelly - 13, November, 2011 (18:59)

Thank you, Monitor, for those excellent definitions. Accords with my conclusions, and very nicely put.
Laurie Keats - 13, November, 2011 (18:50)

On Berlusconi. Who cares?

On communist Whitlam.
Does Lorikeet know that communist no longer run Russia? Or that today’s communists range from decaying Cuban types, incompetent North Korean Emperor dictators to the Communist Chinese who run a capitalist economy better than capitalists run theirs? Not to mention Albanian, Australian, Stalinist or Yugoslav communists. What kind of communist does Lorikeet believe Whitlam was?

Whitlam was an ALP leader and Prime Minister. The Australian Communist Party and the ALP are 2 different parties with different policies. The ALP does not permit its members to belong to other Parties. Those saying Whitlam is a communist are wrong and say nothing which adds to our knowledge.

They do however say something about the author’s ignorance, prejudices, state of mind and mental capacities.

What that is however who cares?
It is a subject best left to the statement authors and whoever they consult about their delusions.
Laurakeet - 13, November, 2011 (18:41)

Thank you Monitor, that is a very clever list. It goes well with ETS's explanations yesterday. It is always good to learn something new and I am clearly still learning about this blog.
Monitor - 13, November, 2011 (18:15)

Part 2

“recidivist” = anything Lorikeet considers bad [don’t bother looking up the dictionary meaning. Dictionaries are an atheist socialist communist green conspiracy]
“incapable of joining the dots at the same pace as I can” = any person who follows rational thought rather than Lorikeet’s convoluted thought processes
“tolerance” = banning things you don’t like e.g. Burkas; beating up on homosexuals and people not sharing her prejudices
“IQ” = “In Queensland” as in the phrase “I have an IQ in the top 2%”
“my highest forte is in linguistics followed closely by patterns and logic” = I make up my own word meanings irrespective of what the dictionary says and regard rationality as an atheist green neo communist lure to trap the faithful.
“I discuss issues interactively and tangentially” = I go off on a tangent when I discuss issues.
A critic is simple minded. The critic has to logical mind to follow her tortured logic
Monitor - 13, November, 2011 (18:11)

Monitor
For ETS. I see Lorikeet is in full flight again and here are the definitions previously published as “translations from the Lorikeet”
“Green Religion” = logically examining the evidence on climate change, concluding there is global warming and doing something about it
“Atheist, green, neo-communist, socialist” = anyone not accepting Lorikeet’s bigoted intolerance.
“Communist” same as above
“Corporate neo communist agenda” = An old nazi slogan, the last group of idiot thinkers to group the capitalists and communists together in a term of abuse. How refreshing to see an old historic term revived although I did not realise the DLP was that far right
“I have no intention of ever bringing my mind set and scope down to the lower limits of others”= I do not intend to apply logic or facts to my contributions
“Those who treat me like a moron” = those who have read my moronic contributions
“abuse” = any statement disagreeing with Lorikeet
Kay Kelly - 13, November, 2011 (17:25)

Hi all - good discussion! My ex-husband (with whom I am still good friends) came out from Germany in 1953. His father was in the German Army as a diesel mechanic responsible to keeping the tanks moving through Russia. He told me about the incredible cold of a Russian winter, and how he used a blowtorch to thaw out the tanks' oil sumps (or something like that) each morning to get them moving. He only just missed out on being killed/captured in the siege of St Petersburg. I still have his old German Army can opener - a simple device which still works beautifully.

And yes, Dieter, as I understand it, reinforced by your excellent synopsis, WW2 was caused by the very severe, economically crippling punishment Germany received after WW1. Hitler offered hope and was very popular in the beginning.
Bob B - 13, November, 2011 (16:59)

Lorikeet

It seems you are referring to my entry where I simply put an alternative and flagged you would see it as abuse. Well, if that is true it just proves my point. There is no abuse just a different view. Ho hum, it seems we have returned to the 'old' days and further discussion with you is impossible.
Laurakeet - 13, November, 2011 (16:47)

What an interesting discussion this afternoon, moving on from Berlusconi to the nature of dictatorships and to dictators themselves. Dieter, I can only imagine what your parents would have gone through living as they did during the war and its aftermath. Your father was right about us not always appreciating what we have in Australia. It is still true today.

Dictators often meet violent ends because they can’t or won’t see the writing on the wall. The narcissistic lust for power and attention that Robyn described leads if not to madness, then to an unreal or illogical view of the world. I suspect Berlusconi’s world view would fit the unreal/illogical framework but at least he has had the sense to go. We can often see this “look at me, I’m important” mentality locally in the workplace, on sporting teams or committees, or even local political parties. Sometimes we can laugh at it but often it masks something very nasty.
Robyn - 13, November, 2011 (15:14)

I need to add that I do not include Tony Abbott amongst the "percentage" I spoke of in my last sentence, last comment. His "charisma" is not sincere and his narcissism rings alarm bells for me. One example really stands out in my memory when, about a year ago, he proclaimed himself to be "the gatekeeper of the morals of the Australian people". I was amazed that the media overlooked this statement at the time.
Lorikeet - 13, November, 2011 (15:00)

And the insults continue from the same bunch of people, who never seem to care what the rules are.

Where is the Moderator please?
Robyn - 13, November, 2011 (14:55)

I like the sound of your parents Dieter.

Regarding leaders and not necessarily dictators. I am wary of anyone who appears extremely narcissistic. Am also interested in the notion of psychopathy and need for (and abuse of) power.

Continuing on from my first comment on this blog strand, I think that many people who would be excellent leaders will never lead because they have no lust for power. It is an unfortunate dichotomy that lust for power can deliver us some very poor politicians and lack of lust for power can deprive us of many who would be great politicians. Nevertheless, I think there is a reasonable percentage who serve with altruistic motive and do a good job.
Helen - 13, November, 2011 (12:58)

What makes a "Dictator"? Is it someone who forces their opinion onto some-one and is a Power Freak. Is it someone who threatens punishment if not obeyed to those who dare to have a mind of their own?...humm!... Im out until tomorrow now. Keep up the discussion, it's great
Cheers everyone...
Dieter B - 13, November, 2011 (12:53)

Helen, I was born in Australia but my parents migrated from Austria in the 1950s. Hitler unified Austria and Germany and was very popular in Austria, maybe more popular than he was in the rest of Germany.

My parents loved Australia because of the opportunities and free lifestyle. My father said Australia was a great country but he thought most Australians did not appreciate how good it was because they had not experienced the horror of living through a war. He was extremely tolerant of all points of view and never criticised people who disagreed with him. He was always wary of charismatic or strong leaders in any field, not just politics. I think my parents would have liked blogging because it is so democratic but I don’t think they would have approved of the way politicians today look at opinion polls and focus groups to guide their decisions.
Bob B - 13, November, 2011 (11:58)

Thank you Dieter B, you have fleshed out my words very well.

There is a lot of direct experience being expressed here which is quite useful. Thanks to Robyn, Helen and Laurakeet. I cannot envisage Lorikeet's view at all; though it is remotely possible I think the Australian people are wiser than to let it happen certainly in todays environment. Much of what you say Lorikeet is formed from a conspiratorial mindset.

And, please, that is simply a different view to which I am entitled, not abuse.
Robyn - 13, November, 2011 (11:08)

Helen,

My Husband emigrated with his mother from Poland when he was 12. He has no love for communist regimes. He is very left-wing though.

I recently read an autobiography written by a man born in Tasmania in 1915. He was the oldest of 4 children and his father deserted the family, when the writer was 6. For the next 10 years the family lived a hand to mouth existence earning what little money they could trapping rabbits to sell the fur. There was no help for them from a capitalist system in those days. Perhaps if enough people are that desperate and an ideological system offers some form of relief or help, people will be attracted to it. Our system seems to have evolved over a period of time introducing various supportive social policies over the years. This has probably protected us from falling prey to extremes.
Helen - 13, November, 2011 (11:05)

Before young people married in Germany in the 30s they had to have medical tests to prove that they were healthy.
Friends of my In/Ls were not allowed to marry because they failed the test. They lived together & eventually married here. They also had a large family.
I guess what I am saying is that our system here is a very good, not perfect, one. As a Republic we run the risk of regimes taking over in the future. I think looking O/S opens our eyes & is grounding in my opinion to see the mistakes made by other C/trys...
Helen - 13, November, 2011 (10:56)

I am very interested in what you have to say Dieter (are you German?). My husband was only 13 when he came here & only remembers the awfullness of the war.
my In-laws told me all that Hitler did for them as young marrieds. Obviously it all went wrong. Look at the people support in the beginning at rallies etc.

Lorikeet your comprehension is way off. I prefer Dieter's response, more please...
Laurakeet - 13, November, 2011 (10:54)

Thank you ETS, Helen, Kay and others. I now know not to take the other bird’s contributions literally when they are really a metaphor for a strange slant on life.

This discussion on dictatorships is interesting. There are exceptions but dictatorships seem to occur more frequently in countries with lower levels of industry and poorer education systems. Marx thought communism would start first in industrialised countries because of the gulf between the owners of the means of production and the workers. Instead it was Russia and Eastern Europe and initially Germany, the losing countries of the Great War, which were not democracies as we know them. Dictatorships seem to thrive in places that have no democratic tradition but democracies rarely go to dictatorships. That is why I doubt a republican Australia would change greatly in practice.

There is also a huge gulf between Marxism in theory and communism in practice, which became just another greedy dictatorship.
Lorikeet - 13, November, 2011 (10:46)

That's right, Dieter B.

Here in Australia, we are being almost frog marched towards a Global Corporate Neo-Communist Regime, but we still have the same people shooting the messenger instead of listening to the message.

The modern DLP, the Queensland Party and Katter's Australian Party are trying desperately to save our manufacturing industries, Australian farmers, small to medium businesses and every Australian's right to a job.

I, for one, will continue to support that, no matter how many snide remarks and personal attacks I receive from the poorly informed and those with their heads in the sand.
Dieter B - 13, November, 2011 (10:35)

Hitler came to power through the turmoil of the Weimar Republic which gave Germany a decade of political and economic instability after the loss of the First World War. The economic chaos was caused in part by restrictions on German industry and by the huge reparations bill the Allies extracted from Germany. Hitler offered hope and a target for their frustrations by telling Germans they did not lose the war but were betrayed by politicians and Jews. The Brownshirts attacked their opposition to give Hitler’s message a clearer voice on the streets. Enough people were attracted to Hitler’s message to elect the Nazis and from there the path to dictatorship was easy. Hitler did give Germany some years of prosperity, but it was a Faustian deal with the devil.

That is just a thumbnail outline of what happened. The deeper issue beyond our blog capacity is what it was about Germany that allowed it to occur.
Bob B - 13, November, 2011 (9:29)

Helen

What went wrong with Hilter? In a word - greed (power hungry).

His aim was to concur Europe and then move on to world domination. He also had his 'master race' theories that he went about implemeting very quietly initially. I think you are right that he was a powerful beneficial force as seen by the German people initially. Was this just a strategy to enable his wider visions?
helen - 13, November, 2011 (9:15)

I agree with you Kay. I don't support Communism but am interested how these regimes work and why. People have fled countries for years to leave dreadful situations that we can't even comprehend.

Look at Hitler, consider a Dictator. He had huge support from the people in the beginning (not so in the end). Hitler gave great improvement & help to the people initially. It just went all belly up as he grew madder within his own image. My-Inlaws had a lot of help when they married with furniture etc from the Gov.
He lifted them out of the depression. What went wrong??
Helen - 13, November, 2011 (7:45)

Dictatorship seems the worst and I would hate to see a replublic for this reason.
At least with the royal family we know what we have got. We can argue here on this blog without being shot for treason and demonstrate without the same happening.

So many want to change us. Even looking at Italy & their precious leader, who would want such corruption. At least we can vote governments we don't like out. In other places the leaders have to be assasinated to bring on change.

I love our flag our Royal roots & our democracy & wouldn't want to change anything after seeing how some others live. We travelled through many countries this year who had dreadful governments and where the people really suffered under different regimes in Europe until recently...
Kay Kelly - 13, November, 2011 (7:35)

Helen:

It is important to distinguish the difference between the theory of communism and the practice of communism. I guess you could say that only arrangements like a Kibbutz would be run in accordance with theoretical communist ideas. The so-called 'communist' regimes around the world have been/are nothing other than socialist totalitarian regimes - definitely not run for the benefit of its citizens. Capitalist/totalitarian = the rich get richer! The common denominator is human greed. But in a democratic capitalist society, at least you have a chance to do what you want and get richer if you want. It is my preferred regime.

Censorship, intolerance and lack of freedom of the press are the real enemy.
Helen - 13, November, 2011 (7:34)

Some years back I stayed with a family in Yugoslavia a "Socialist" country. The children had few toys. There was only one meal in the day and meat was only eaten a couple of times a week & not with 3 veg.

The children ate cheese and bread mostly and fruit only available if you could afford it. Most grew their own. they were happy though & had great family lives. They could not leave but that didn't seem to worry anyone.

The young had a good education & could speak 4 languages at any early age.
There seemed little reward for working hard as it was expected (not like here).
These were good people, I think we could learn from them. If one wanted freedom of thought & life they had to escape to somewhere like Australia. Why though have so many chosen to stay if they are not happy as so many people seem to think.
Helen - 13, November, 2011 (7:17)

I often wonder why Communism & Socialism are more common in large populations. Is it a way to keep the majority fed, housed and compliant?

I have mentioned the shortfalls before of Capitalism between the wealthy & the poor. The middle ground seem to be the payers from what I can see.

The poor pay nothing and the rich just gather & pay as little as possible unless it's on themselves. It does reward the greedy. One can do well if so inspired. Capitalism also encourages laziness and discourages people from wanting to do well unless they are "real goers".

In Communisitic, Socialistic countries, there are some rich and they seem to have control & certainly don't share. The majority have to share what they have but there seems to be few homeless albeit modest with their living standards. contd.,
Robyn - 13, November, 2011 (6:42)

Yes, it was a tough life for communists back then. What a shock it was to discover through these blogs that the old DLP is still kicking - just!
Kay Kelly - 13, November, 2011 (6:04)

Robyn:

Ah, the good old Tribune newspaper! That thought really takes me back! My father used to receive the bulk copies of the Tribune to be distributed at the next meeting. It was decided that he was the person to receive it because he was not employed by the government in any way, hence could not be sacked for his political views! Some others I know were not so lucky! My history teacher, for example - never promoted, 'encouraged' to resign. Also a very well known uni professor! Ah! the good old days when the DLP had quite a bit of influence on the Liberal government.
Robyn - 13, November, 2011 (5:52)

Wow Kay, you are more colourful than a rainbow lorikeet!
Sounds like you have "taken" many decisions in your working life too.

My father also was a communist or near communist. He used to get the tribune delivered and my mother used to worry about what the neighbours might think when they saw it sitting on our front lawn. My High School French teacher was a very important communist who was spied upon by ASIO. She once sent one of her daughters out to their car to invite them in for a cup of tea. I read about this in her obituary.

As Laurakeet has pointed out (so well), Gough Whitlam was not a communist. He was a man with great social vision and I, for one, do retain fondness for him. Interesting how hatred for him has come up on this strand about Berlusconi. There is absolutely no comparison.
Sui Ting Tse - 12, November, 2011 (17:25)

It's time for Mr. Silvio Berlusconi to resign as Prime Minister of Italy. He has been plagued by too many unpalatable news around him and there is a real risk that the Italian financial crisis will be the next headache for all Eurozone states. It is difficult to see how the Eurozone financial situation could be ameliorated in the foreseeable future. Whoever succeeds Mr. Berlusconi will have a very uphill task to tackle. Mr. Berlusconi should be happy that he leaves now before the real storm sets in.
Lorikeet - 12, November, 2011 (17:07)

Be aware that your personal attacks on me are read by many others. They are an indicator of gross immaturity.
Kay Kelly - 12, November, 2011 (16:46)

Robyn:

I have this terrible confession to make - as Blue as I am now, I was actually raised to be Red!!! My parents were members of the Communist Party in the 50s until early 60s, and hence my childhood involved attending many propaganda-laced Party meetings. Many university staff were members then, including some quite notable ones I remember.

My most recent senior management positions (before I retired) were in the conservation/wildlife field. A bit Greenish? Oh, And I had over 20 years experience drafting legislation in a range of fields - wildlife management, industrial relations and HR management. So although I am a bit of a washed-out Blue colour now, I have been all sorts of colours in my lifetime!

But of course, I am very simple minded.
Helen - 12, November, 2011 (16:46)

It's global warming Bob. Afterall it's worse up there than down South (where I am).

Our place is a picture at the moment because the Jacarandas are in bloom as well as the flowers. I just came in from the garden. There's a sea breeze coming off the river but it was pretty warm today.

Time to shut down for me. Have a great week-end everyone. The bridge to bridge is on tomorrow, so I think we will go out somewhere where it will be quiet.

Cheers all...
Bob B - 12, November, 2011 (14:51)

Helen
I agree, keep it light but factual and we all seem to get on well. Acid comment and assumed attack makes it unpleasant for all.
Bob B - 12, November, 2011 (14:48)

Helen

Its rather off putting to be told I know nothing about the US and anything I offer is wrong based on the fact that her son visits on Defence matters. I have lived in the US twice and visited many times since on Defence procurement matters as well as privately to see people we are fond of. That doesn't count of course.

I will be attending the forums on the Gold Coast on Monday. Just by the language used and the narrow thought she has on aspects of aged care, I think picking her out when we get to questions might be a brease - I wonder how long it will take. If she is serious about the subject and not just hot air she should attend as she lives 'just up the M1'.
Helen - 12, November, 2011 (14:45)

ps for Lorikeet
I am interested in who you do support. You don't seem to like anyone from what I can see (including many of us).

We have a right to disagree as well. I have very firm views based on many things and consider myself informed. I don't pour over the internet all the time (I don't have that kind of time available), but do take in everything that is going on.

So don't tell me I am not informed, I have fond & not so fond memories of being a business person through a number of government changes.
Our country is doing well at the moment, so please give credit where it is due and be thankful for our good way of life which is much better than in many other countries.
A sense of humour would be nice sometimes too instead of acid remarks!...
Helen - 12, November, 2011 (14:32)

For once Lorikeet I agree with something that you have said "YOU DON'T CLAIM TO KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT THE WORLD". That much is evident.
I asked you once before how many countries you have actually been to.
Most things on the internet (even photos) are not always as "truthfull" as being there and looking from the inside and talking to the people.

I haven't been everywhere either, but I have been to many countries over a lot of years and god willing will keep going until I hang up my saddle and put the horse in the stable forever.

Many of your views are so unbalanced. How much of Australia have you actually seen as well? Perhaps that is your problem...
Robyn - 12, November, 2011 (14:32)

It all sounds kikimonstrous. What will we do about it? We must take a decision!
Lorikeet - 12, November, 2011 (14:06)

On further reading, I found out that 25 of the 27 countries in the EEU now have National Identity Cards.

I think anyone looking at countries of the EEU will know by now that they have been grouped within a World Sector to be brought down to the lowest common denominator.

I think the reason Julia Gillard has promised financial help for Greece is that she is now going to collect a Carbon Tax for redistribution to other nations. Despite having amassed an unprecedented foreign debt ever since the Lima Declaration was signed, we are still too far ahead of other nations in the financial equation for UN comfort.

The DLP and the ALP parted company decades ago, specifically because the ALP had a global communist agenda.
Lorikeet - 12, November, 2011 (13:50)

Brian Storm:

It's interesting that you said Julia Gillard didn't have the authority to give the IMF money for Greece. We have been told what to do by the UN for decades.

The insulting Chat Roomers should consider why, for the last 35 years, people have said they have "taken" a decision. It seems to me that no Australian even knows how to "make" a decision any more.

This is to get us all used to taking orders from afar.

In regard to contributions to the IMF having nothing to do with foreign debt, it has to be put onto the balance sheets somewhere, doesn't it?

This government borrows an average of $100 million every day, usually in much larger chunks.
Lorikeet - 12, November, 2011 (13:49)

Some people here are very simple minded, and that's why other bloggers won't even discuss anything with them.

I don't write for the people exercising Information Control on themselves by not reading Leftist or Rightist press, let alone anything else.

Brian has some manners. He is also too intelligent to destroy his own argument with wing-flapping insults.

Some don't seem to remember anything they have seen or heard. Perhaps there is too much sand in their eyes and ears.

I don't claim to know everything about the world, but I do my best to find out as much as possible.
Helen - 12, November, 2011 (13:23)

Just popped in. don't quite understand the thread except the "wing flappin bird" came out of hiding.

I admire our PM and her courage. She IS winning you know against all odds.

Thank goodness there is not a "Flappin wing party" out there with she herself (L) as the leader.

Our whole world would disappear down a crack and implode on itself into pagen oblivion.

Abbott (poor soul) seems quite distressed at present over his giant failure to unseat our PM before the CBT/ETS. What will he do if he actually has to now come up with a few policies - & the Greens, the hyde of them not leaving next term Pagen Communist Traitors!...
Robyn - 12, November, 2011 (12:27)

Nice summations Kay and ETS.
I would add that Green women are the lowest of the lower echelons which means they are the highest life forms in the list of lowest life forms.
Being Blue I don't think you will ever achieve this height of lowness Kay.
ETS - 12, November, 2011 (11:54)

There is an exception to this rule. For some reason she has placed Brian Storm on a pedestal. I don’t know why this is so because I don’t recall Brian ever agreeing with her. Brian also seems to be fairly balanced in his views… well at least he isn’t a right wing fringe dweller.
ETS - 12, November, 2011 (11:51)

Laurakeet and Kay, a couple of pointers that might help:

1 One blogger has her own definitions of commonly used words. A former blogger made a very useful lexicon of these definitions which if printed would have a brightly coloured bird on the front cover. Any similarity between the lexicon and widely used definitions is entirely coincidental.

2 Our blogger belongs to an extreme right wing fringe political party. This is important because it is the basis for her view of the rest of the political spectrum. Anybody to her left is tainted with some degree of socialism or worse, keeping in mind the definition disclaimer above. The Liberals are closet socialists, the ALP is communist (also Slave Labor) and the Greens are (shudder) pagans.

On this basis you can see why her logic not clear to anybody else. I hope it helps you understand why ALP leaders are communists and the rest of us are low echelon thinkers.
Kay Kelly - 12, November, 2011 (11:38)

Bob B.:

Yes, I am sure that many of you have travelled the path I am now traveling!! What I have discovered by watching this blog is:

1. Lorikeet = "genius" = "I understand everything in the world."

2. You agree with Lorikeet = you are clearly superior to the third group (see below).

3. Not Lorikeet or do not agree with Lorikeet = not a genius = can't understand anything and/or have one's head in the sand.

It is simple, really.
Brian Storm - 12, November, 2011 (10:45)

Lorikeet, if you heard the PM specifically say the money to the IMF would be going directly to Greece, I will take your word for it. It would not be a surprise if it does happen; it just seems odd that she can say that when it is not her decision. In any case it does not detract from the soundness of increasing the IMF contribution which, as I said before, now seems to be a rare bipartisan position. There really is not a link between the IMF contribution and Australia’s foreign debt.
Laurakeet - 12, November, 2011 (10:39)

So Whitlam is not the only communist. Now we have Keating, Rudd and Gillard who are also communists. Some people have a strange idea of what a communist is. But why not Hawke? Surely he qualifies as a member of the group of communists who have led the ALP. Should Beasley not also be in there, and Latham? But let’s go back further – what about Curtin, Chifley, Evatt and Calwell? It’s like something out of the Twilight Zone.

To answer Lorikeet’s question to Arthur Mac, I think Mr Mac was referring to the time Nicholas Whitlam was the boss of the NRMA, when the decision was made to demutualise the NRMA insurance arm. It was a very bad decision and NRMA members have seen membership costs and insurance premiums skyrocket. The fondness and respect many people have for the older Whitlam certainly does not flow down to his offspring.
Bob B - 12, November, 2011 (9:40)

Yipeeeee... we won. Well done to all who prepared and participted in the bid. 43 to 27 has to be an excellent result. I can now prepare to be at the opening ceremony as its just a long walk for me to get to Carrara Stadium.

Bucephelas, by the language used by one, you are being prepared for a big let down.

Kay Kelly, you are moving through the positions where many of us have gone before. Don't be disheartened, just maintain your sense of humour.
Lorikeet - 12, November, 2011 (7:48)

Bucephelas:

You are clearly a higher echelon thinker whose head is not firmly buried in the sand.
Robyn - 12, November, 2011 (7:47)

Fortunately in NSW we have our Sydney Morning Herald to counter the right-wing bias of the Murdoch press. Possibly not for much longer though.

I agree Bucephalas. The Murdoch domination of the press is not good for our country. "The Australian" newspaper will never enter my home.
Lorikeet - 12, November, 2011 (7:45)

Kay:

You just didn't fully understand the RBA link, but thanks for admitting you prefer to remain in ignorance, while continuing to attack other bloggers.

A card similar to an Australia Card is now being used in a foreign nation. Without it, citizens cannot currently get a driver's licence or a job. Eventually such cards will be followed up with microchipping of citizens.

For the more broad minded, I will post a link to USA issues which tie into a Global Communist Government comprising Economic Unions, using Population Control on its detractors. Readers are free to "file" for later reference only if they so choose.

Sedition Laws were passed by John Howard (2006).

VIEWERS PLEASE BE AWARE THAT IT IS A 45 MINUTE FILM.

http://www.apfn.org/APFN/camps.htm
Kay Kelly - 12, November, 2011 (7:27)

Lorikeet:

What I said was neither rude nor insulting, just an observation on the comments posted by you earlier in the afternoon.

And, no, I think I have better things to do than to spend hours checking out your references, or chasing up agreements, only to find that you have put your own inimitable interpretation on them. When I did bother to check out one of your references once before - the RBA guidelines - I found that you had completely misinterpreted the intent and content of those guidelines. So, no, I won't bother again.
Kay Kelly - 12, November, 2011 (6:05)

Oh, hold that thought!

Berlusconi was not only PM, but owned the media as well! Perhaps that's why it all drifted so far. Perhaps Italy didn't have a fierce Murdoch-style newspaper to point out a few salient issues a lot earlier? Who knows? But I do know I wouldn't want Gillard, Brown or Conroy to run our media.
Kay Kelly - 12, November, 2011 (5:53)

(cont.)

There is absolutely no evidence of the UK-style phone hacking going on here. This media inquiry is nothing more than an attempt by this government to intimidate the press into being less critical of its debacles. I have never before seen such a glass-jawed bunch of politicians!! Don't you remember how the press used to attack politicians of past eras? They just took it on the chin and tried to improve their game. The fact is that when a government stuffs up and/or tries to hide unpleasant truths, the press is the only institution we can rely on to tell us about it!

Perhaps we should be like totalitarian regimes - the government to fund newspapers and ensure they print only what the government approves?
Bob B - 12, November, 2011 (5:50)

Kay

You are so right and they continue to probe.

Off topic but go, go, go Gold Coast. I will be down at the park in Southport to join in the revelry.
Kay Kelly - 12, November, 2011 (5:40)

Bucephelas:

Re your Australian media comment. If Australia had more newspaper readers and advertisers, we would have more newspapers - supply & demand. Here in Brisbane we used to have several independent newspapers (years back) but they all folded due to lack of funding. The Courier Mail (Murdoch press), our only State-wide newspaper, is our only effective Opposition in this State. In recent years the CM brought to light, among others, the scandals of a rogue surgeon and a corrupt Minister, both of whom now languish in gaol. Neither of these (or many other debacles) would have seen the light of day except for the investigative skills and dogged determination of the CM!!
Bucephelas - 11, November, 2011 (21:54)

Berlusconi will be remembered in both ways suggested: both as a buffoon and as the man who put Italy in its present mess.
But what Italy and the rest of us should remember above all is that rich clowns active in politics and owning 70% of the media can distort matters so that the public are misinformed about key issues of the day and thus the nation cannot correct its government’s errors. Only when the train crashes do we become aware of what they have done. Italy is suffering because of this.
Of course it could not happen in Australia could it? For it to happen we would need a media magnate to control 70% of the media, for that magnate to be actively trying to destabilize the government in that media and to be giving out inaccurate information on important subjects like climate change! But now that I mention it?!
Sue Do-Nim - 11, November, 2011 (21:38)

Perhaps it's just Silly Old Sue, but I'm finding the topic of this weeks Blog a bit uninspiring.
Lorikeet - 11, November, 2011 (20:45)

SEVEN (7) ECONOMIC UNIONS (WORLD SECTORS)

1. European Economic Union of 27 nations (most of Europe)

2. Eurasian Union (Russia, Ukraine, Turkey, Pakistan, Middle Eastern Nations)

3. China + Korea + Vietnam + India + Korea + Japan

4. Australia + NZ + PNG + Indonesia + Malaysia + Antarctica

5. Greater African Union (Africa + Madagascar)

6. North America + Greenland + Canada + Latin America + West Indies + Mexico

7. South America

(Now just tack on any remaining countries or groups of islands in the general vicinity of each.)

These 7 EUs (World Sectors) will have 10 leaders - one from each EU and 3 of higher ranking.
Lorikeet - 11, November, 2011 (20:28)

Arthur Mac:

Can you please tell us what Whitlam's son did to the NRMA?

Kay Kelly:

I find your commentary both rude and insulting.

When you have read the agreements that Labor has signed, and understood how they have been used to sell us out as a nation, get back to us. (Liberals have signed a couple as well.)

I would also suggest that everyone gives some thought to what has happened in the EEU, and think how Australia might fare in an Asia/Pacific Economic Union.

For those who aren't aware, EUs are formed to bring every nation down to the lowest common denominator, with the UN assuming global power.

I have been expecting 7 EUs to be formed which account for every country on earth. Last week WEG mentioned the Eurasian EU, so I will now list how I think it will go.

(cont)
Lorikeet - 11, November, 2011 (20:18)

Brian Storm:

The PM specifically said the money would be going to Greece when I saw her on TV. Tonight's news seemed to be fairly negative in terms of Italy.

The reason both Labor and Liberals want to give money to the IMF is that they wish to continue to rack up foreign debt, which has risen steadily since 1976 (Whitlam signed the Lima Declaration in 1975).

I suggest that Laurakeet reads the above, and also:

. the General Agreement on Tariffs & Trade (Keating 1995)

. Agenda 21 (Keating 1992)

Before Rudd and Gillard came along, Whitlam and Keating certainly could have won the communist prize.

In answer to last week's question from ETS, I gather information from many sources, which I do my best to check for accuracy.
Colin - 11, November, 2011 (20:12)

I thought his description of Angela Merkel as an "unfu..able lard arse" was so apt. The problem is that I keep applying that descriptor to others in my life!
WEG - 11, November, 2011 (19:21)

“Fair Work Australia” (FWA) have taken 3 years to investigate Australia’s own bunga-bunga party involving a politician and one senior Union official.
Seems to me if FWA are silent on this matter, maybe Mr Silvio Berlusconi lust for living is not so bad.
Senior at Large - 11, November, 2011 (19:01)

Joolz might have a point. Does anybody know very much about Italian politics? I don’t. All I know about Mr Berlusconi is what I hear and see in the media and it is all the sensational things about the girls and the parties. Nobody is all good or all bad. If he won elections over the years he was in power then many people must have voted for him. Perhaps he also did some good things we never heard about because they weren’t attention-grabbing or sensational. I don’t know. I would like to hear from seniors who know first hand about what Mr Berlusconi is like. Otherwise we should not judge him.
WEG - 11, November, 2011 (18:59)

Seems the Italian Private debt is quite small compared with the Public debt $2.5 Trillion that’s 120% greater than annual output.
Germany has greater debt, but have a propensity to work, innovate and pay their way.

Public debt in Italy exceeds Greece Portugal and Ireland all put together.

Italy have a bloated and overpaid bureaucracy (sounds familiar). Corruption is rife. Italy is totally dysfunctional and productivity is low.
Italians are good savers apparently, mainly due to tax evasion (and Mafia influence). Maybe Mr Silvio Berlusconi should donate his $9 billion personal wealth as a start, to stimulate the economy.
Arthur Mac - 11, November, 2011 (18:40)

Why are we wasting time on Berlusconi who is yesterday's man? What happens to Italy does not concern me. I worry about what happens to Australia. The government here is worse than anything they had in Italy or anywhere else and we should get rid of them as soon as we can and put in someone who knows what to do.

Whitlam was a communist and the most evil prime minister Australia ever had. You can't trust him. The country has never been the same since his time. And look what his son did to the NRMA. Terrible, both of them.
joolz - 11, November, 2011 (18:38)

How could anyone respect such a man and keep him in power for so long?
He must have had something going for him.

On the other topic, I was sitting having coffee in a shopping centre at 11am today. The last post was played out over the loud speakers and everything came to a halt. You could have heard a pin drop in this huge place with so many people about. Very moving!
ETS - 11, November, 2011 (18:34)

Hello Brian. It is not me who is sanguine about Italy; it is the commentator I referred to before, although I don’t know if he would agree with the sanguine description. I agree with your assessment of Italy. Not a case for the basket yet but not out of the woods either, to mix metaphors.

I believe Italy will survive this despite Berlusconi, not because of him. He has played his games and carried on with his antics for long enough. Like Mussolini before him, he isn’t stupid but I suspect he is genuinely arrogant enough to think he can get away with anything. Jim made a good point that if not for the Euro which provided cover from the better performing European economies, Italy’s problems would have been visible long ago. Berlusconi’s lack of economic management while being profligate helped put Italy where it is now. Italy is better off without him.
Kay Kelly - 11, November, 2011 (18:29)

Is Lorikeet suffering from 'communistitis'?

Here's my thinking the communists have been somewhat on the decline since the fall of Berlin Wall, but no! the world is full of them still! And if you're not a communist, you're a dastardly global corporate 'neo-communist'. Wow! Only the DLP counts as not being communist, I guess.
Robyn - 11, November, 2011 (18:28)

Re peace: people might be interested in watching this.

You Tube: DOG, CAT and RAT
Laurakeet - 11, November, 2011 (17:20)

Whitlam a communist? It's 11 November, not 1 April. If we are going to start throwing names at people, at least let's try to be accurate.

I'll agree Gough was arrogant. I'll agree he had a great vision for Australia but demonstrated an inability to manage his own government on a daily basis and as a result too many Ministers were able to go their own way without adequate Cabinet oversight. But a communist? Never.

We should not forget the global economic downturn in the 1970s that contributed to the Whitlam Government's problems. Nor should we forget the intransigence of the Opposition controlled Senate to refuse supply, or the failure of the conservatives to honour Constitutional conventions. These are not excuses for Whitlam who did stuff up badly. But a balanced commentary must allocate the responsibilities fairly.
Brian Storm - 11, November, 2011 (17:09)

Lorikeet, I think you may have misinterpreted the nature of Australia’s increased funding to the IMF. First, IMF funding supports economic stability in the world. Funding will not necessarily go to aid Greece, which is being supported primarily by an EU based program. It can’t be ruled out altogether however and if the increased Australian funding is drawn on, it becomes a loan and Australia is entitled to interest. I regard it as an economically responsible action and one that I’m sure the Coalition would have done had it been in power. I believe Tony Abbott has withdrawn his initial opposition to the measure.

I’m not sure about ETS’s rather sanguine appraisal of the strength of the Italian black market to bail out the Italian economy. Italy has a stronger economy than Greece and is less likely to default. If it does however, the consequences would far outweigh anything currently happening in Greece.
Lorikeet - 11, November, 2011 (16:00)

I agree with WEG and John O'Grady regarding a shout of "Alleluja, brother", to the sacking of Gough Whitlam, one of the worst communists this country has ever known, and a very arrogant one at that!
Lorikeet - 11, November, 2011 (15:49)

I'd say Silvio is a scumbag, but he is also just one of the numerous stupid politicians who sold 27 European nations out to communists via the European Economic Union.

From political discussions I've had over the last day or so, it is highly possible that Italy could crash altogether.

It's now only a few days ago that I heard Julia Gillard saying she wanted to give money to The International Monetary Fund to bail out Greece.

When did Australians agree to this?

I think the world will eventually be split into 7 World Sectors in a Global Government. Both of these terms are now being used at the National Press Club by Labor's communist economists, and by commentators on political programs.
ETS - 11, November, 2011 (15:24)

Silvio Berlusconi. I don’t think of him as a buffoon but as a shrewd politician who managed to retain power for a decade when Italian governments since the war have barely lasted months. He must be popular with a substantial part of the voting population or he would not be re-elected, but no doubt his media interests have influenced public support. He seems to have done well enough out of it.

At a recent NSA forum Paul Clitheroe commented that Italy may have political problems from a faltering official economy but was unlikely to be a basket case like Greece because of the strength of the unofficial economy (read black market). Italy lasted for centuries as city states and as a nation with political instability but the economy keeps going and is the third strongest in Europe. I’m not as confident about it as Paul was but I don’t know as much about economic matters as he does either.
ETS - 11, November, 2011 (15:15)

Well said, Helen. The former Federal MP Tom Uren was a POW in Japan during the Second World War. He wrote that before capture he hated the Japanese, but when he saw they were ordinary people going about their lives much as people would in other countries his animosity turned away from people towards the war machines and militarism and doctrines and economic aggression that sponsor war. Fighting those forces is the worthwhile battle but, given human nature, it is a battle unlikely to ever end.
Kate - 11, November, 2011 (14:32)

Italy's prime minister or any other member of parliament is none of our business unless that person is using their office to cause problems or disadvantage directly to Australia.
Jim - 11, November, 2011 (13:17)

Had Italy not been a member of the "Euro" Club, I believe its financial problems would have been obvious long before now: what it means is that a fragile and deeply indebted economy can only be supported for so long; the longer the support - the greater the debt becomes. Take note; this can happen to anyone!
The ethics of the outgoing PM are indeed questionable - but the government as it stands now is not going to be attractive to any intending leader. They could get someone worse.
Kay Kelly - 11, November, 2011 (13:13)

(cont.)

She went on to explain that Italy had very low debts and as such was in excellent economic shape! I wonder what she is thinking now?

Of course, there is a difference between public and private debt. And Australia is lucky to have the mining industry. Without mining, Australia would be looking pretty silly too.

Anyway, we have visitors this weekend - from the UK. Should be some good conversations! I'll be MIA blog-wise til next Monday. Have a great weekend all!
Kay Kelly - 11, November, 2011 (13:06)

Berlusconi - a corrupt creep! And I think I am being charitable!

I recall in early 2009 being in a lovely resort in San Pedro de Atacama, Chile (after a two week horse-riding/camping holiday in the Andes) and sharing a breakfast table with a Chilean woman who had married an Italian and had lived in Italy for the past 20 years or so. She had harsh things to say about us 'profligate' Australians who were living above our means. She decried our widespread use of credit cards and talked about the 'fact' that Italians lived within their means, did not rely on credit and had a strong economy and very competent PM!
D Benn - 11, November, 2011 (11:37)

As a toddler I still remember warplanes flying overhead and asking my father what they would say on the radio when the war ended. Please God, may we learn to live in peace with all, worldwide.
D Benn - 11, November, 2011 (11:28)

I pray that almighty God will teach us to choose parliamentarians who will set a good example, unlike the reported earlier activities of Silvio.
May God grant us continuing peace and an attitude of appreciation for what we value in our country.
WEG - 11, November, 2011 (11:13)

.....reminds us what we're going through now with the present government!
John O'Grady - 11, November, 2011 (11:06)

It is also the anniversary of the fall (sacking!) of the Whitlam gevernment in 1975.
I well remember the enormous relief provided by the news that this had happened. That really was a scary time. From day to day the mood, attitudes and actions of a most erratic government were there to be borne.It really was a time of waking each morning to 'what now?'.
Helen - 11, November, 2011 (9:38)

I would also like to remember my German father-inlaw, now deceased who was captured and a Prisoner in the US.

He & my Dad were the enemy to each other in WW2.

I would like to remember my Husband's baby sister who was already running around and died in Germany because there were no doctors available (& whom her father never met). My husband's older sister contracted Polio and my husband nearly starved and had to be sent away to feed. The bombs in his town made him terrified of fire for many years.

The enemy is not the "ordinary folk" but those who organise wars for power & greed.

Let's all hope that we will never see a war on our shores & any senior out there with these painful memories from their past, I'll remember for you too - PEACE everyone...
Helen - 11, November, 2011 (9:28)

I will remember all those in my family line who fought for this country long before my Dad in WW2. I will remember all those to follow WW2 and who still are in war zones as I write.

I will remember the dread I felt when my own son in the A/F would not tell us where he was going and thank God that he came home safely.

I will also remember "our flag" that represents all of this!

I also will remember the innocent folk in war torn zones who have and are still suffering in wars that are not of their making.

IT PROVES WAR IS AWFUL FOR EVERYONE CONCERNED, so I will remember them all...
JW-blogger - 11, November, 2011 (9:07)

What has Silvio Berlusconi got to do with National Seniors and the information we expect you to be providing to the Senior citizens of Australia? Please don't ask us to respond to trivial topics that have little to do with what we expect of National Seniors. Please leave overseas politics out of Australia (especially when it is this trivial) and get on with serving the people of this country. I believed NS was about "doing" for the Seniors of Australia.
ETS - 11, November, 2011 (8:19)

It is a special day Bob. I will be remembering two great uncles who died in the First World War and reflecting on the sacrifice of the tens of thousands of others whose lives were taken in other conflicts.

They should never be forgotten.
chantal warda - 11, November, 2011 (8:06)

what is this obsession by the acommon people about "bad" and stupid people and celebrities?? The best thing we could do is to ignore them...
Bob B - 11, November, 2011 (7:48)

Continued:

I also have a great uncle on my fathers side we lost in Polygon Wood a year and one month later. Shot and buried on the edge of the wood by the Australians. He was out scouting and on return mumbled or forgot the password and was shot as is required. How terrible for the man who shot him. He is either still in the wood or buried as an unknown soldier but we visited him in Polygon Wood also.

I will alway hold today very special.
Bob B - 11, November, 2011 (7:48)

I still remember, as a 10 year old, standing next to my Grandfather at the Austalian War Memorial when he bust into tears in front of a diorama of WW1 fighting in Flanders. It was the only time I saw him cry. I never understood for quite a few years until I found out his younger brother fell on that fateful night of the attack at Fromelles.. Whilst he has not been identified it was real pleasure to attend the Fromelles Dedication Ceremony last year.

Cont (over 160 words)
val - 11, November, 2011 (7:38)

How sad that in a world with so many smart/intelligent people a nation can have such a clown selected to "lead" it and make decisions that will impact so many for years to come. Part of being admitted to any government office should be an IQ test, that would have stopped many of the present in power getting these jobs.
Helen - 11, November, 2011 (7:30)

Is this really a topic!

I too will remember all those fallen at 11am.

It will change from state to state, a much better topic though I think than to give brain power to a "drip" like who? Servio Silvio (who cares)...
Bob B - 11, November, 2011 (7:21)

Please everyone, pause at 11 today to remember our fallen soldiers.
Bob B - 11, November, 2011 (7:19)

I see a 'big' man with problems with enough money to get away with it. From press reports, for that is I have to go on, he seems to lust after power and women. It seems a marriage vow is irrelevant. I too notice young lovely and some not to young lovely females around and enjoy what I see - I believe that is natural but I don't go any further.

It seems he hasn't handled the power bit well at all nor the women side either.

No, he won't be remembered for anything good.
BNettik - 11, November, 2011 (7:01)

Why remember him at all? Does Italy write about our "colourful characters" in politics and will Italy remember them? There is far too much emphasis placed on the notority of some people then there is on the great achievements of some of our scientists.
Robyn - 10, November, 2011 (22:40)

I've often thought that poor leaders (in any field) are often those that achieve power because they lust after it. They are driven by ego, not altruism.
Silvio Berlusconi (like others past and present) seems to fit this mould.

He may be remembered as a colourful character by some. By me he will be remembered as a foolish man and a foolish leader. If my PM complimented Barak Obama on his sun tan and ran around having parties with underaged prostitutes, I would feel mortified! He is shaming his people.

I don't feel confident about commenting on Berlusconi's contribution to the economic woes of Italy and the EEU. It's all so complex (and scary!). Hopefully will learn more from other bloggers.
frank jackson - 10, November, 2011 (22:18)

the last of the red-hot poppas.
WEG - 10, November, 2011 (20:00)

Was Al Grassby a relative of Mr Silvio Berlusconi?

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Silvio Berlusconi

Silvio Berlusconi

Comments (318)

Nottakeet - 17, November, 2011 (14:34)

Laurakeet - 17, November, 2011 (14:18)

Lorikeet - 17, November, 2011 (13:26)

Helen - 17, November, 2011 (13:08)

Badger - 17, November, 2011 (13:02)

Laurakeet - 17, November, 2011 (12:52)

Robyn - 17, November, 2011 (11:05)

Son of Lorikeet - 17, November, 2011 (10:53)

Sue Do-Nim - 17, November, 2011 (10:52)

Helen - 17, November, 2011 (10:44)

Robyn - 17, November, 2011 (10:25)

Son of Lorikeet - 17, November, 2011 (9:41)

Laurakeet - 17, November, 2011 (9:05)

Helen - 17, November, 2011 (7:48)

Helen - 17, November, 2011 (7:29)

Kay Kelly - 17, November, 2011 (7:24)

Kay Kelly - 17, November, 2011 (7:22)

Kay Kelly - 17, November, 2011 (7:17)

Helen - 17, November, 2011 (7:14)

Kay Kelly - 17, November, 2011 (7:07)

Lorikeet - 17, November, 2011 (7:03)

Kay Kelly - 17, November, 2011 (6:58)

Lorikeet - 17, November, 2011 (6:57)

Lorikeet - 17, November, 2011 (6:43)

Nottakeet - 17, November, 2011 (6:41)

Sue Do-Nim - 17, November, 2011 (3:34)

Monitor - 16, November, 2011 (22:18)

Laurakeet - 16, November, 2011 (21:15)

Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (20:47)

Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (20:44)

Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (20:32)

Kay Kelly - 16, November, 2011 (20:12)

Son of Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (20:07)

Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (19:32)

Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (19:31)

Son of Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (19:25)

Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (19:23)

Robyn - 16, November, 2011 (18:03)

Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (17:01)

Helen - 16, November, 2011 (16:05)

English Person - 16, November, 2011 (14:56)

Son of Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (14:53)

WEG - 16, November, 2011 (14:47)

Nottakeet - 16, November, 2011 (14:42)

Sue Do-Nim - 16, November, 2011 (14:30)

Robyn - 16, November, 2011 (14:20)

Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (14:09)

Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (13:59)

WEG - 16, November, 2011 (13:47)

Helen - 16, November, 2011 (13:46)

ETS - 16, November, 2011 (13:33)

Robyn - 16, November, 2011 (13:00)

Brian Storm - 16, November, 2011 (11:47)

Robyn - 16, November, 2011 (11:19)

Kay Kelly - 16, November, 2011 (11:17)

Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (11:01)

Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (10:52)

Son of Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (10:48)

Son of Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (10:47)

Nottakeet - 16, November, 2011 (10:43)

Nottakeet - 16, November, 2011 (10:41)

Nottakeet - 16, November, 2011 (10:38)

Robyn - 16, November, 2011 (10:09)

Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (10:09)

Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (10:05)

Brian Storm - 16, November, 2011 (10:00)

Robyn - 16, November, 2011 (9:55)

Nottakeet - 16, November, 2011 (9:43)

Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (9:26)

Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (9:21)

Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (9:19)

Kay Kelly - 16, November, 2011 (9:16)

Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (9:07)

Lorikeet - 16, November, 2011 (8:58)

Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (8:43)

Bob B - 16, November, 2011 (8:43)