Should cyclists be licensed?

  • 19 Jan

    Should cyclists be licensed?

    19, Jan, 2012 (11:50 AM)

    Shane Warne has reignited the debate over licensing cyclists after he unleashed a torrent of invective on Twitter this week.

    Warne says he was harassed by a cyclist who hit his car while he was driving home in Melbourne but the cyclist says the cricketer drove his car into his bike wheel.

    Warne has tweeted he now wants cyclists to display registration plates so they can be tracked down if they break road rules.

    Do you think cyclists should be more closely regulated or is this just another headline-grabbing incident involving the colourful cricketer?


    Disclaimer: The views expressed in these blogs are not necessarily those of National Seniors Australia. This blog is moderated and any content deemed inappropriate by the administrator will be removed, including comments that are offensive or discriminatory; libellous or defamatory; breach copyright, unless we have the owner’s permission to use it; or contain personal or commercially confidential material. Personal attacks will be deleted by the moderator. The use of this blog to broadcast overtly party-political messages is also prohibited. The moderator’s decision is final and no correspondence will be entered into. Any personal details shared here are public and can be found on internet searches.



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Comments (582)

  1. Kay Kelly - 2, February, 2012 (12:15)

    Lorikeet

    I don't like wind farms, either - for all the reasons you listed.

    I would have thought the Greens would be opposed to hydro because the dams drown huge tracts of forest. That is the main reason I don't like hydro. But, yes, fish can be killed/maimed in the turbines, but I would hope that some filters/barriers could help prevent that problem. But as I said, I don't really like hydro anyway.

    I know most people have major concerns about nuclear power. But I believe that the research being done to make it safer will eventually result in power plants that people are more comfortable with.
  2. Lorikeet - 2, February, 2012 (12:03)

    Yes, I realise those links were a bit old.

    I'm also concerned about the lightweight fibreglass chassis and the amount of damage that could be incurred in accidents with some of these vehicles.

    I don't like wind farms for a number of reasons including noise, eyesore, unknown neurological effects on humans and animals, injuries to birds, lack of ability to provide baseload power.

    Plenty of superannuation funds seem to be going into investment in this inferior, damaging technology.

    Greens are opposed to hydroelectric schemes due to effects on fish.

    I think good baseload power comes from Queensland black coal, which I believe is the cleanest in the nation. There are clean coal technologies which could be implemented, but the main trend seems to be to charge us a lot more while doing nothing.
  3. Kay Kelly - 2, February, 2012 (11:40)

    Bob

    We live further away from public transport. We drive around 40 minutes to our closest train station that has parking. Well I say 'parking' advisedly - in fact it is nothing more than a vacant paddock where everyone parks - a bit dicey in very wet weather, though.

    We also go into town (or the Wesley) using our Seniors Go Cards - very cheap and pleasant, especially in off-peak hours. A good chance to read my beloved Kindle.

    To have a car that could do the small commutes every day without pollution or CO2 would still be a big advantage. Many people already have two cars anyway. You could use one for commuting and one for long distance travel - until one car that does both is developed.
  4. Nottakeet - 2, February, 2012 (11:39)

    Lorikeet - Compressed air vehicles continued

    To imagine that a compressed air vehicle is driven solely by air is a bit of an oversimplification. To get a vehicle from A to B requires energy in one form or another. If that source of energy is originally based on fossil fuels (oil or coal), then the production of that energy will deplete our fossil fuel reserves, pollute the atmosphere and produce carbon dioxide. It doesn’t matter whether the final form of the energy is compressed air, petrol or electricity. The only way to avoid these disadvantages is to obtain the original energy from a renewable, non-polluting, carbon dioxide free source, such as hydro, wind or solar. Even nuclear power as the original source of energy would be much better than coal or oil. Admittedly a compressed air vehicle will not pollute the air where it is driven. The pollution will be located wherever the original energy is generated.
  5. Nottakeet - 2, February, 2012 (11:37)

    Lorikeet

    Thanks for the links on compressed air vehicles. Very interesting!
    The article at ‘http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/659/’ is nearly 5 years old and the video link is 4 years old. For more up to date information try:-
    (1) ‘Green Car Reports’
    (2) http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/news/compressed-air-car-myth
    (3) ‘How the Air Car Works’ on www.howstuffworks.com/
    or just Google ‘Compressed air car’
    The supporters of compressed air vehicles do tend to portray them as the answer to the world’s pollution problems. Unfortunately, the basic rules of physics intervene. As the ‘ecogeek’ article comments:- ‘But don't let anyone tell you this is an "emissions free" vehicle. Sure, the only thing coming out of the tailpipe is air. But, chances are, fossil fuels were burned to create the electricity.’ It may produce less pollution and carbon dioxide that a petrol powered vehicle, but much of that difference is due to the fact that the compressed air vehicle has considerably less power. (continued)
  6. Bob B - 2, February, 2012 (11:15)

    I go up to Brisbane several times a month. I drive 5-10 min to the local station and zip up on the Gold Coast Express. Its very cost effective using a Seniors Go Card and is well ahead of parking alone without considering fuel costs etc. It takes a bit longer but I have time to read documents etc relating to my purpose of travel. Central station is close to my 'place of volunteer work'.

    Having recently been to Europe and seen the HSR in use (my wife has used it over air travel) it is the way to go. Its just expensive to set up.
  7. Bob B - 2, February, 2012 (11:10)

    Babies nappies as a source of 'fuel'. Its just like cows manure in many respects and methane is the sought after by-product. I think the residue, properly treated, could be used well in gardens etc.
  8. Laurakeet - 2, February, 2012 (11:08)

    Tim Fischer was interviewed on TV last year about his support for high speed rail. I thought at the time he put up a good case for it, acknowledging the high cost of doing it in Australia given the distances between our cities, but recognising the benefit for the nation. Tim was concerned that decisions have to be made soon before the land corridors around Sydney and Melbourne disappear and it might never be on the agenda. Look at the state of the Pacific “Highway” from North Sydney to the start of the freeway because of inadequate planning – disgraceful.

    I agree with Kay that high speed rail will not replace cars but it would be a great alternative to flying. The Sydney-Melbourne flight path is one of the busiest in the world and high speed rail between those cities would reduce airport congestion. We need political leaders with vision. Maybe Tim should make a comeback.


  9. Bob B - 2, February, 2012 (11:05)

    Tim Fisher has been pushing this 'barrow' for many a year and it has potential. It just expensive to set up initially. I spoke with about it in the early 1990's (I think) at Sydney airport in the Ansett Gold Wing Club.

    As well as getting people off planes and onto trains there would be considerable savings (including lives) getting freight off the roads and onto rail. This is probably the major difference between Everald Compton's and Tim Fisher's approach.
  10. Kay Kelly - 2, February, 2012 (11:01)

    Bob

    Yes, if the source of electricity is clean of pollution and CO2, then it seems that there could be several ways of propelling small cars short distances - fuel cells, compressed air (see Lorikeet's link) and no doubt other methods. But that would still help enormously. There is an awful lot of cars being used for very short distances every morning and afternoon to get to and from work, or to and from public transport hubs.

    Long distance travel at higher speeds is another issue. But I have no doubt that problem can be satisfactorily solved in time.

    The real issue is a clean, base load supply of electricity. That takes us to hydro or nuclear (maybe geothermal?). Wind, solar are OK but the storage issue must be solved.
  11. Kay Kelly - 2, February, 2012 (10:49)

    Lorikeet

    I did see Tim Fischer on TV this morning, but only a short clip. He was talking about food security and the need to ensure that good agricultural land is kept for that purpose (I agree).

    He was also talking about high speed rail. I know that is a favourite topic of Bob Brown. But I just had the impression that Tim Fischer has come home full of ideas, and maybe aspirations that Australia could copy some things he saw and liked in Europe.

    I can see a benefit of using high speed rail in lieu of flying. But that is never going to replace cars because rail is very limited as to where it can go. I see it more as an alternative to flying. And because of cost it would be limited to going between the bigger cities which have a lot of regular business flyers every morning and afternoon.
  12. Lorikeet - 2, February, 2012 (10:47)

    Yes, the Moreton Bay Regional Council also extracts methane from landfill.

    A few years ago, a relative in Canberra told me they also had a service down there which recycled used babies' nappies. EEEEOOOO!!!!

    Here is a newspaper article on Tim Fischer's address to the NPC:

    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8412391/tim-fischers-train-love-still-on-track
  13. Bob B - 2, February, 2012 (10:29)

    Cow manure as a fuel - yes its possible. Rotting manure produces methane which is a combustible gas. Thereby it is a potential fuel.

    Many council tips now have methane collectors and generators to produce electricity. My old Belconnen tip was the first I am aware of to do this.
  14. Lorikeet - 2, February, 2012 (10:28)

    Kay:

    I will try to make further inquiries regarding the ethanol issue. We certainly don't need our living costs continually pushed up.

    Yesterday at the NPC, Tim Fischer was discussing a high speed rail option between Melbourne, Sydney and Canberra, with a view to reducing airline flights and pollution.

    This is yet another part of the Agenda 21 international agreement signed by Paul Keating in 1992, which I believe has the primary purpose of grounding us and getting rid of cars, which also trades into the Green Peasant agenda.

    I find it unusual that Tim Fischer is pushing a Green agenda, since he is a National.
  15. Bob B - 2, February, 2012 (10:22)

    Fuel from water is a reality and has ever been so. Simply water is split into Hydrogen and Oxygen gas by applying an electric current. Many of us did this in high school chemistry.

    I too saw a demo on TV but have not researched to find out how much electrical energy is necessary to 'fuel' this fuel producing process. So, we need electrical energy to enable this process. A baattery would/does suffice but need to be recharged.

    I opine there is much scope for vehicles driven short distances, initially, as most are today. The cost is unknown to me. With improved methods of elecrticity production about, it could easily become a major source of vehicle propulsion. We do need to get car manufactures on side to let it happen as they have thwarted earlier endeavour of alternative propulsion methods.
  16. Bob B - 2, February, 2012 (10:12)

    No early risers/commenters this morning!

    Kay 8:51 - spot on.
    Robyn 8:54 - Spot on. Even a male can see that and I do know the thrill of looking after the grandkids for weeks at a time. Its very tiring though but if it was permanent we would be generally fitter and manage much better - not that we don't manage now - we just find it tiring. I can rest with asmile on my face.

    Gee it was nice their first night back at home to have one on the phone in tears because he couldn't give Nan & Pop a good night kiss.
  17. Kay Kelly - 2, February, 2012 (9:20)

    Robyn

    Thank you for those kind words.

    That is the way I look at it - the grief she would feel for the rest of her life given that her desire for a child is so strong. And yes, sometimes in life things don't happen at the optimum moment.

    I must say I love to look at little babies. Every time I go shopping and see cute little babies, I feel all clucky. So I just imagine how painful it would be for someone who is denied that opportunity herself. Every shopping expedition, and every TV advert showing gorgeous babies, would be like a knife in the heart.

    So, yes, she has my full support even though I know it won't be easy for her.
  18. Robyn - 2, February, 2012 (8:54)

    Kay,
    I feel happy for your daughter that she has brought to fruition her 10 year desire to have a child. Good on her for being so proactive toward realizing her dream rather than accepting mores regarding parenthood (age, partner necessary etc). She will find it demanding, we all did no matter what age we had our own kids, but she will never have to live with the grief of not having the child she so wanted. Energy levels at different ages do vary with individuals. Somehow we all manage to cope. Look at all the grandparents who are raising children - they do manage. The most important thing is that she has supportive people in her life.
  19. Kay Kelly - 2, February, 2012 (8:51)

    Lorikeet

    I don't have a problem at all with setting up an Australian ethanol industry to use our sugar cane. That is a good idea. Making ethanol from sugar cane is a far more efficient process than making it from corn - which is the main source crop used in the USA.

    The concern I and others had was MANDATING ethanol in all regular unleaded petrol at this point in time when there are still so many vehicles around that cannot run on ethanol. These people would be forced to use premium fuel at 10 - 15 cents extra per litre. And the majority of those people would be those who can least afford to pay extra.

    I think I saw an article that said that in NSW alone, there were around 900,000 vehicles unable to use ethanol.
  20. Lorikeet - 2, February, 2012 (8:48)

    http://www.5min.com/Video/Air-Powered-Car-Revolution-3546998

    At this 5 minute video link, there are comments at the bottom. One person says he runs his car on cow manure/BS.
  21. Lorikeet - 2, February, 2012 (8:39)

    http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/659/
  22. Lorikeet - 2, February, 2012 (8:35)

    This would boost our economy, improve work opportunities and get our existing cane fields up and running again, with more Australian farmers being able to retain their own holdings instead of selling out to overseas interests.

    At the same time, welfare queues and depression within the community would be reduced, along with PBS and Medicare costs to treat mental illness.

    I have also seen a prototype of a car which is driven solely by air. It also powers its own air-conditioning system.
  23. Lorikeet - 2, February, 2012 (8:33)

    Kay:

    Thanks for the link. I thought Katter supported some excellent ideas. One cannot blame him for trying to push the government in a more pro-Australian direction. He may have come up with 20 changes which would cause him to support Labor, but I'm sure he knew they weren't going to budge very much, if at all.

    I think the main idea was to get his ideas out into the electorate. We must remember he has spent decades bashing his head against a brick wall and getting nowhere with un-Australian politicians.

    I also noted that one of his Top 20 ideas was an excise reduction on Biofuels. This would hopefully decrease prices at the bowser. His farmers also need cheap fuel to run their vehicles and heavy farm equipment.

    Last night I was told that the DLP would support a 10% content of high grade ethanol in fuels, grown and manufactured in Australia.

    (cont)
  24. Kay Kelly - 2, February, 2012 (8:11)

    Helen (cont.)

    And of course there's my second daughter. Has worked overseas and traveled. She is an artist. Has badly wanted a baby for the past 10 years or so, had several miscarriages with a previous boyfriend (who has since disappeared off the scene, thank heavens) and then decided to go to a Chinese herbalist to improve her health and fertility. Clearly it has been successful as she has carried this baby without any problems - now almost full term. Before you ask - not immaculate conception - a close friend who already has a family and doesn't want to be part of the baby's life. She is only 2 (closer to 3) years younger than my other daughter but sees herself more as a 'young mum'.

    I do think having young children keeps you younger in outlook at least - even if the body may let you down a bit.
  25. Kay Kelly - 2, February, 2012 (8:10)

    Helen

    It is true what you say about older mothers being 'almost seniors'.

    My older daughter is almost 46 and she and her husband (who is 47) have just started realising that they are heading for retirement/being seniors - getting their superannuation in order, selling investment homes and buying their 'dream home' to live in for the foreseeable future etc. They decided not to have children when they married. They traveled a fair bit when they were younger. They have been married for 25 years.
  26. Helen - 2, February, 2012 (7:30)

    (2)Still those becoming grandparents either finally or again do have my congrats & it is a wonderful time & a time I wouldn't miss for the world regardless of age.

    Just take your vitamins & have lot's of rest before you get your new charges to look after if you haven't done the looking after before.

    I don't remember getting quite as tired when I was younger although I'm sure I did. Perhaps I remember better now. It's a bit like childbirth. Two hrs later, never again! One year later the memory has faded somewhat.. The older we are the slower the memory seems to fade in this regard. Funny that eh!!

    Off to do the ironing - cheers...
  27. Helen - 2, February, 2012 (7:30)

    Thanks for your views those who answered. My comments were definately not a criticism. I just wonder sometimes how it will be for those in this position who are brave enough to take on the incredible task of raising a family when almost a senior as well together with the mortgage & all the trimmings. Racing all around the place as well with children as they develope their social structures & hobbies etc etc. It enough to exhaust the fittest person, regardless of age!

    The parents involved don't think of themselves as as alsomost seniors & it is true true that children keep us all young. I do know that my Mother found it much harder to raise her second family than she did raising us (& she worked) the first time around but not the second - Contd

  28. Laurakeet - 1, February, 2012 (17:55)

    Hi Helen. I had my daughters in my twenties and the time was right for me to have them then. My daughter who is currently expecting is 30 and will be 31 when the baby is born. This is her first pregnancy and the time is right for her.

    You made some valid points about people who have children later in life but if the time is right for them at that stage of life then so be it. I would not pass judgement on anyone else although I do wonder sometimes when I read stories in the media about women having babies in their late 50s or older, the age when I will be a grandma again. Raising a child and building a relationship would be so much harder at that age, but as with teenage mums, much depends on the individuals and I should not generalise.


  29. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (17:38)

    Helen (cont.)

    I do have concerns about my daughter and her choice to go it alone so late in life. But what can I do - other than support her as best I can, in spite of my personal misgivings.

    But as you say, she certainly is not alone as an older mother. Nor is she the only one around who has decided to have a baby even though she hasn't met Mr Right.
  30. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (17:36)

    Helen

    I just said to Bob that I believed everything has its pros and cons. I had 4 children - the first at age 19 and the last at age 25. I was young and fit and physically could easily handle this. I didn't start my career until the youngest started school.

    My daughters-in-law had their last babies in their early 40s. My daughter is 43 and having her first - and is a single mum by choice.

    Certainly they will be much older when their kids are teens and have their own kids. But when I look at my DILs, for example - they are much more settled and mature as mothers than I was. I had to grow up in a big hurry - one minute uni, then a mother!
  31. Robyn - 1, February, 2012 (17:32)

    Thanks for that interesting info on ethanol Bob.

    Wonder if the day will come when there will be more bikes on the road than cars? It is a possibility I guess but we won't live to see it. I would happily ride to many places now if I didn't have to share the road with so many cars. For me it is too dangerous and I worry about my husband biking long distances for work and leisure.

  32. Bob B - 1, February, 2012 (17:32)

    Helen

    In the days of no real contraception women kept on producing babies until nature interceded. I see nothing wrong with having a family later in life. It does bring complications as nature intended us to produce from the time that was enabled.

    Importantly, in today's world we are able to long term plan those things and that is wonderful. Women can have meaningful lives whilst raising a family.
  33. Helen - 1, February, 2012 (17:16)

    (3)There are many for's & against. What about the much older grandparents who help out much more than our grandparents did. Is it "lovely" but much harder on everyone concerned?

    Perhaps just for a moment it will take us away from the usual before tomorrow's politics set in.

    Must shut down but will tune in tomorrow - Cheers...


  34. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (17:15)

    Bob

    Good info. These things are rarely as simple as they seem. I always believe that everything has its pros and cons.

    We all know oil can't last forever, and we need to use it as carefully as possible.

    In an earlier blog I mentioned USA legislation (2011) requiring that certain percentages of vehicles be manufactured and WARRANTIED to operate on non-petroleum-based fuels (by certain dates). The various fuels mentioned in the article were: ethanol of all percentages, flex-fuel, natural gas, hydrogen, biodiesel, plug-in electric and fuel cell. I gather the primary purpose of the Bill was to promote a massive adoption of flex-fuel vehicles capable of running on ethanol or methanol fuel.
  35. Helen - 1, February, 2012 (17:15)

    (2)Personally, I would not & am glad I was v young when I became a mother. I still had a career, in fact I had a few careers and now am a carer. A life without children (& now, grandchildren) would have been terrible for me, so I understand the desire of some to have children at any age. This is not a criticism just a question

    We are not prepared for the problems in regard to aging, being made redundant, illness or the losing of a partner. Also what about the children of these parents? My own mother had children at both ends of the spectrum, v young & at nearly fifty in another relationship. she went on to develop dementia & her second husband died before her. She didn't know the last of her grandchildren at all which was sad Contd -

  36. Helen - 1, February, 2012 (17:13)

    Many couples are choosing to start their families much later in life now. This is mostly because of careers or just wanting to do many things before a family comes along.

    It doesn't change the fact that people still age & with it comes the problems associated with this. It is considered the norm & not unusual at all for what was considered middle aged women in the old days to have first children over the age of forty. Whilst having children is a wonderous thing, would my fellow bloggers like to start a family at this age? Contd -

  37. Bob B - 1, February, 2012 (16:49)

    It would seem that ethanol is but a stop gap measure towards a truely sustainable and non polluting fuel - or is that just a pipe dream?
  38. Bob B - 1, February, 2012 (16:47)

    Ethanol combustion in an internal combustion engine yields many of the products of incomplete combustion produced by gasoline and significantly larger amounts of formaldehyde and related species such as acetaldehyde. This leads to a significantly larger photochemical reactivity that generates much more ground level ozone. These data have been assembled into The Clean Fuels Report comparison of fuel emissions and show that ethanol exhaust generates 2.14 times as much ozone as does gasoline exhaust. When this is added into the custom Localised Pollution Index (LPI) of The Clean Fuels Report the local pollution (pollution that contributes to smog) is 1.7 on a scale where gasoline is 1.0 and higher numbers signify greater pollution. The California Air Resources Board formalized this issue in 2008 by recognizing control standards for formaldehydes as an emissions control group, much like the conventional NOx and Reactive Organic Gases (ROGs).[
  39. Bob B - 1, February, 2012 (16:46)

    Whilst I do support the proper introduction of enanolin fuel, its not the panacea we might believe. In helping to resolve one issue we step of into another.

    A cut and paste continues

  40. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (16:25)

    Lorikeet

    Re your blog at 15:39 1/2.

    Perhaps you could help the Moderator by telling her exactly which blog it is that you want her to delete.

    I have looked and I can't find any blogs that contain any "name calling" or any that suggests you "have a mental illness".

    Just a suggestion.
  41. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (16:20)

    Lorikeet

    Re Katter's push to mandate ethanol:

    I did say I saw him interviewed twice in the past few days. He quite clearly stated it was his intention to mandate ethanol in all regular unleaded if his Katter's Australia Party gained power in the forthcoming Qld election. Also, in 2010 he put up 20 points that he wanted Julia Gillard or Tony Abbott to agree to in order to gain his support to form government.

    He repeated this demand in late 2011. He said that if Rudd were re-elected leader of the Labor Party, then he (Katter) would offer his support in Parliament if Rudd agreed to his 20 point demand/wish list. This included federal mandating of ethanol. I think it pretty clear that this is what he supports.


    http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/katters-list-price-of-support-if-rudd-managed-to-topple-gillard-20111003-1l5e0.html
  42. Lorikeet - 1, February, 2012 (15:39)

    The Moderator still needs to delete comments containing name calling and those which suggest I have a mental illness.

    That's about as low as someone can go.
  43. Lorikeet - 1, February, 2012 (15:27)

    Happy reading!

    http://www.nvtonline.com.au/new-varieties.htm
  44. Lorikeet - 1, February, 2012 (15:24)

    Link to Australian Wheat Board:

    http://www.awb.com.au/customers/australianwheat/

    No one appears to be in any rush to give us any real details of new wheat varieties.
  45. Lorikeet - 1, February, 2012 (15:22)

    John:

    I'm fairly certain this is the transcript from the Landline program I saw in which animals grazed on the crops. It states that they are breeding new varieties of wheat, but I don't think they tell us what they are.

    http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2010/s3287469.htm
  46. Lorikeet - 1, February, 2012 (15:17)

    This one's about the growing demand for oats:

    http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2008/s2617141.htm
  47. Lorikeet - 1, February, 2012 (15:12)

    Here is an interesting link, but I am still searching for a specific variety of wheat used for stockfeed.

    http://www.jochinke.com.au/varieties_cultivars.htm

    At one link, I found out that barley which has more than a certain percentage of protein is fed to livestock. This might be because of problems with the fermentation process if it is used to make drinks.
  48. Lorikeet - 1, February, 2012 (15:01)

    ABC1 recently screened a series about "The People's Supermarket" which involved a man establishing a co-op. Members went out and picked a whole crop of very large apples of a variety other supermarkets had rejected. They made them into baked foods, hot cider, cold drinks and also sold them fresh.

    They did the same with a crop of broccoli which had been left in the field for a bit too long. Farmers were glad to get a sale, without having to hire any pickers.

  49. Lorikeet - 1, February, 2012 (15:00)

    John:

    I will see if I can find out the grade of wheat, but since you have a strong interest in what goes on on the land, it certainly would be worth your while to tune into Landline, if you are not doing so already.

    At the NPC today, Tim Fischer was making a huge fuss about Peak Water, Peak Food and plenty of other scaremongering relating to the climate and our ability to grow food.

    If food is in such short supply, I wonder why banana farmers recently had to plough monumental amounts of bananas back into the soil, instead of the government air lifting it to Somalia.

    Bob B is right about grains not fit for human consumption being fed to animals. This also includes vegetables and fruits that are severely marked or not of a palatable size for the consumer.
  50. Lorikeet - 1, February, 2012 (14:51)

    I think we should wait and see what Katter really plans to do with ethanol. We must remember that he is an Independent without much individual clout in the parliament.

    Having been on TV 3 times myself, I know that voice-overs are often used to replace what is actually said by an interviewee. The media is also quite capable of misrepresenting lots of ideas, including cutting out a word or short phrase to change the entire meaning of what someone is saying.

    Since I am not a "wasted space", can someone please post a link to the information that has annoyed them regarding Katter and ethanol.
  51. John O'Grady - 1, February, 2012 (13:51)

    Bob B

    Thanks for your comment. I have been involved with the land for most of my life and that includes the production and processing of wheat. Stockfood is usually cracked or fully milled to aid digestion and maximise usefullness and, as you correctly said weather damaged and downgraded wheat often ends up feeding sheep/pigs when mixed with other substances and processed into cubes. Lorikeet did say that some varieties had been bred to be used as stockfeed. I have not heard of this and am genuinely interested.
  52. Bob B - 1, February, 2012 (13:41)

    Robyn

    Spelling can cause humour. It wasn't done intentionally but left alone when noticed. You are very observant and tuned in.
  53. Bob B - 1, February, 2012 (13:39)

    John O'Grady

    I am not aware of a specific type of wheat grown for animal consumption. That spoiled by weather conditions can end up as animal feed otherwise wheat fed to animals is less processed - has more dirt etc in it.
  54. John O'Grady - 1, February, 2012 (12:22)

    Lorikeet.

    What is the variety of wheat that is grown specifically for animal consumption? Serious question.
  55. Robyn - 1, February, 2012 (11:53)

    Bob B,
    That is a randy car you own.

    Laurakeet,
    We (my hubby and I) don't own a sewing room either. I guess the garage could be called the shed but not much goes on in there and I have never found him hiding in there when mad with me. Likewise, I can't even begin to contemplate that I would want to throw myself into sewing when mad with him.

    Some of the droppings do provide some humour I guess.
  56. Laurakeet - 1, February, 2012 (11:30)

    To Robyn and Kay, thank you very much for your kind comments. We are all very excited and having much fun planning things with my daughter and her husband.

    The ethanol discussion is very interesting. I did not know a lot about it until I read the comments from Bob and Kay. I will certainly make myself more informed about it. I am pleased Mr O’Farrell has changed his mind on unleaded petrol. This willingness to revise his thinking as information becomes available is a good sign in a politician. I hope Bob Katter will also think more about it.

    On the shed discussion, my husband spends more time in the garden than the shed these days and I’m afraid I don’t have a sewing room to retreat to. We actually like to spend time together and I never thought that was unusual.



  57. Bob B - 1, February, 2012 (11:23)

    That should be cars incompatible with ethanol as most of you would have seen.
  58. Bob B - 1, February, 2012 (11:03)

    Robyn

    Not only have costs improved relatively in that time but the cars themselves are much better products with more useful attachments, comfort and above all safety improvements. I have a 12 years old car with just 110,000 k on the cock and its just going to have to keep on going - I never overlook mintenance and fix little things that need attention. Hence my concern about being forced into ethanol fuel.

    Lorikeet

    I said I did not agree with Katter on this issue and also said some things he intends to do are good. He has completely overlooked or just does not care about those with vehicles comatible with ethanol. This is, in my view, stupid and the bulk of the population seem to agree. By your standards I cannot disagree with one element of a package without rejecting the whole package. My kids and grandkids say only a 'wasted space' would believe that!
  59. Bob B - 1, February, 2012 (11:02)

    Once or twice a week I get up early (just after 3.00) and do volunteer work in the Seaway Tower at Southport. Generally home by 10:30 when I make a perked coffee and view the blog.

    Having to read the entries after the morning rush puts a different perspective on how I view things. Today only confirms my commitment not to respond to L as the right way to go. There has only been an attempt by L to be more pleasant and the vitriolic language of neo and green and communist etc has gone. Still same old same old though.

  60. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (10:52)

    Robyn

    All the cars we have had have been very reliable (mainly Commodores and a Ford ute - very useful out here). We tend to turn them over every 10 years or so - sometimes more. We tend to favour very young second-hand, or, preferably, a demonstrator (as was our Kia). Our main reasons for changing cars has always been the increasing safety ratings of new cars.
  61. Robyn - 1, February, 2012 (10:25)

    Speaking of cars, here are some facts that may be of interest to others. In 1998 we paid $8,500 for a car that was 13 years old and had about 100,000klms on the clock. We still have that car which is now 27 years old. It has been the most reliable and cost efficient (in terms of maintenance, not petrol) car we have ever owned. Last year, when our much younger car gave up the ghost we bought a 4 year old car with 50,000 klms on the clock for $12,000. What a difference 14 years has made to the cost of cars.
  62. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (9:56)

    NSA Moderator

    Thank you for the recent deletions. Much appreciated.
  63. Robyn - 1, February, 2012 (9:43)

    Sue Do-Nim,
    Thanks for your definitions at 1 Feb (7:27). They do all seem to fit.

    rmcn,
    Love your term "droppings". Perfect description.

    Lorikeet,
    Men's sheds and women's sewing rooms? How embarrassing to have this tripe splashed on a senior's blog for younger generations to read. Are you really a '50's/'60's child? We were the generation who gave cars to our girls and dolls to our boys to play with to break down gender barriers. Perhaps you are much older than you say?

  64. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (9:36)

    Lorikeet

    So those who disagree with you are not only inferior and insulting bullies, they are also wife-abusers and husband-abusers?

    This is indeed a new low - even for you.

    BTW no one has accused you of having a mental illness. Read the comments carefully.
  65. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (8:37)

    Helen

    Another oops! First line again - "I'm" should be "I". I should check my grammar!
  66. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (8:21)

    Helen

    Oops! First line - I meant "you're" not "your".
  67. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (8:19)

    Helen

    Hi! I'm know your right in your advice to Robyn and me. It is frustrating, though.

    No one has yet succeeded in getting through to Lorikeet. There is no reason to imagine that I might succeed where others have failed.

    The real answer is for the Moderator to delete all insulting and demeaning comments. This doesn't always happen.

    As you say - it will be interesting to see how this year goes - politically, that is. There certainly is a lot of sniping about sometimes trivial issues from all sides.
  68. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (7:45)

    Laurakeet

    My congrats as well on the coming grandkid! Yes, very exciting!

    As I posted before, I am off to Sydney very soon to support my younger daughter through her delivery - bub due early March. I just hope all goes well and the bub is healthy (my daughter is 43 and this is her first). But it will be my sixth grandchild (and probably my last).
  69. Helen - 1, February, 2012 (7:34)

    Monitor
    Any reference not asked for or offered in regard to family should be deleted in my opinion. It should not be allowed unless the person it is directed to is OK with the comment. It seems that one blogger is doing this on a constant basis. I ask that you look into this please & delete the offensive messages - Thank you
  70. Helen - 1, February, 2012 (7:27)

    Good morning all!
    Robyn & Kay give up & don't respond to the baiting. No response to any comments from the resident "trouble maker" will make us all feel better.

    I notice that the holls are over for the pollies & they are all back where they left off. The latest poll released was not taken in the new year. There has been one taken but it is not released yet. From what I heard it is about 5 points higher for the government. What a load of rubbish they are! This year will be the proof of the pudding. I for one will wait and see before depicting the end of the world. I hope others will do the same.

    I'm still waiting for some kind of light from the opp. Still nothing just the same ole same ole (just like you know who)...
  71. Sue Do-Nim - 1, February, 2012 (7:27)

    A” TROLL” is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

    Forum SPAMMING is a breach of netiquette where users repeat the same word or phrase over and over.

    A SOCKPUPPET is an online identity used for purposes of deception. The term—a reference to the manipulation of a simple hand puppet made from a sock—originally referred to a false identity assumed by a member of an internet community who spoke to, or about herself while pretending to be another person.

    Sock puppets are usually found when an IP check is done on the accounts in forums.

    Sock puppets can be made from socks or stockings of any colour…OOPS ,sorry Silly Sue.
  72. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (7:25)

    Lorikeet/Claude

    Your blog at 7:08:

    Content please.

    Why are you so obsessed with my husband and his shed? Fascinating.
  73. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (7:21)

    Robyn

    Yes, It is good that Barry O'Farrell has backed down. Australia's car fleet is not yet ready for an over-night mandating of ethanol.

    I do however have a correction to my earlier comments that USA's car fleet is newer than Australia's. It used to be, but the combination of the GFC and Australia's better economic position is that the USA's car fleet is now nearly as old as Australia's.

    One of the more endearing traits of Peter Beattie was that he was capable of occasionally admitting he 'got it wrong'. Sometimes they do get it very wrong and just persisting regardless is a recipe for disaster - I am thinking here about Anna Bligh's complete intransigence on matters like the Traveston Dam, the new Children's Hospital etc.
  74. Lorikeet - 1, February, 2012 (7:12)

    One of the ladies attending a recent NSA lunch told me the drug Lipitor (used for treating high cholesterol levels) had caused the involuntary relaxation of her muscles and deterioration of her mental functioning.

    I saw an item on TV a few weeks ago that suggested the government is about to add cholesterol-lowering drugs to the PBS, along with some others.
  75. Lorikeet - 1, February, 2012 (7:07)

    Sorry, that's Friesian dairy cattle. I was still thinking about aborigines freezing in their tent in the Winter.
  76. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (7:07)

    Lorikeet

    Your blog at 6:44:

    There are no insults in my blogs to you. I am just trying to encourage you to stop attacking others and concentrate on content.

    I am not "trying to overrule Mensa". I merely said that the best way to convince other bloggers that you are intelligent is by the intelligence of your contributions to this blog. Constantly telling us that you are vastly superior to anyone who disagrees with you does nothing to enhance our assessment of your abilities.
  77. Lorikeet - 1, February, 2012 (7:06)

    Here is an interesting link on foreign ownership:

    http://www.ausfoodnews.com.au/2012/01/19/almost-half-australias-food-industry-is-owned-by-foreign-investors-report-shows.html

    A year or 2 ago, I saw an item on "Sixty Minutes" which showed we are exporting prime dairy breeding stock by plane to Russia (Freezian cattle, which are very copious suppliers of milk containing reduced fat compared with Jersey cows).
  78. Lorikeet - 1, February, 2012 (6:58)

    When it comes to dairy products, they suggest switching from full cream milk to trim and then to skim, then to UHT skim milk which has only barely more substance than what I believe is the eventual goal beverage ... water.

    As we know, the new cholesterol guidelines would suit a peasant eating a thin soup of noodles and vegetables.

    Doctors are now recommending the UHT skim milk which, as we know, can be mass produced in distant locations, due to its long shelf life. This will also help to put Australian dairy farmers out of business.

    I would encourage everyone to think twice or thrice before criticising any pro-Australian politician who wishes to help farmers, graziers and manufacturers.


  79. Lorikeet - 1, February, 2012 (6:57)

    "We have never criticised any other blogger except you...."

    This is almost as amusing as the government wanting to charge graziers a Cattle Burping and Flatulence Tax in their ongoing efforts to remove the red meat and dairy products from our diets.

    The National Heart Foundation no longer tells people to cut the fat off their steaks and then grill them. They just want to rule red meat out of the diet.
  80. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (6:43)

    Lorikeet

    Your blog at 6:29 1/2.

    No content. Once again - full of attacks on other bloggers.

    We have never criticised any other blogger except you. And our criticism of you is purely confined to your constant, bullying insults of any blogger who disagrees with you.

    There is another saying that is pertinent here: 'Play the ball, not the man'. If you could just stop insulting and putting down other bloggers, you would not get any criticism at all.

    But perhaps you are really trying to elicit frustrated responses with your insults, just so you can claim 'victim' status? Who knows?
  81. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (6:30)

    Lorikeet (cont.)

    It is true that over the ages many people "who were ahead of the main game were thought to have a screw loose". These people are in the minority. Most of those who "were thought to have a screw loose" ended up in mental homes or on medication.

    The quality of your blogs will go a long way to inform us as to which group you belong to. If you hope to convince us about you wisdom, concentrate on content and intelligently arguing your point. Insults and put-downs do nothing to enhance our views of your intelligence. Telling us how intelligent you are does nothing to enhance our views of your intelligence. A truly intelligent person would understand that.

    Please - no insults - concentrate on content.
  82. Lorikeet - 1, February, 2012 (6:29)

    There is plenty of abusive commentary coming from the Bullying Bloc which is definitely not merely disagreement.

    Just because a handful of people think it is fair to keep picking on one person is not evidence of any lack of agreement on the part of the majority, who have chosen not to participate on extraneous issues, partly due to the significant risk of victimisation.

    Relevance of Jury Experience:

    I think those who run the courts know who is forming a Bullying Bloc and discriminating against defendants/fellow jurors, just as a Blog Administrator/Moderator would know that people love to pick on minority groups, whether it's due to their colour, gender or political affiliation.
  83. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (6:16)

    Lorikeet (cont.)

    You are certainly entitled to your views. You are certainly entitled to blog about them as you see fit.

    We are entitled to our views. We are also entitled to blog about them.

    We are all entitled to disagree with the views of other bloggers. We are all entitled to state our disagreement, and to challenge others' views, and to give further information, interpretations etc.

    We should not insult the PERSON having those contrary views. You constantly do that. Others don't. A constant, and very childish theme of yours is that your intelligence is so superior that anyone who doesn't agree merely "has their heads in the sand" or some other put-down. A clearly ridiculous and insulting claim, and completely unsupported by anything you say.
  84. Kay Kelly - 1, February, 2012 (6:06)

    Lorikeet

    You are the only blogger who constantly insults other bloggers. You are the real bully on this blog! Everyone sees that except you.

    An example: A mature, informative discussion about ethanol has been occurring between myself and various other bloggers. Your contribution? "Forward thinking is not the strong suit of some bloggers." No content, insulting and a ridiculous, inappropriate assessment, especially given the detailed content of other bloggers' comments. And just typical of your contributions.

    Another one: "Negative comment about Bob Katter is also largely ill-informed." Which bit? The bit where I praised his contributions to his electorate? Or the bits where I purely quoted what he actually said? Once again, no content - just mindless criticism.
  85. Robyn - 31, January, 2012 (21:52)

    Laurakeet,

    Congrats too in the coming grandkid! Exciting year for you.
  86. Robyn - 31, January, 2012 (21:45)

    Have been without net connection all day. So frustrating but the problem doesn't look like getting fixed soon.

    Welcome back Laurakeet.
  87. Robyn - 31, January, 2012 (21:39)

    Lorikeet:

    "I don't have to agree with other people's ideas""

    Equally, nobody has to agree with your ideas. In fact, it has been shown that very few people do!

    What on earth does your jury experiences have to do with anything on this blog? Would you like to explain why you have written all that stuff?

    Kay,

    Good to hear Barry O'Farrell has backed down. He does appear to give in easily and I like that about him. He certainly doesn't give the heebie jeebie's that previous Lib/Nat gov'ts have given in NSW. Will never lose the disgust I felt for the Robert (Robin) Askin coalition Government of the 1960's. When WEG talks about the worst gov't this country has ever known, that was the one for me. There was never a more corrupt government in the whole history of this country.

  88. rmcn - 31, January, 2012 (21:09)

    One doesn't have to agree with anothers ideas, God forbid!! One just has to respect that persons ideas without putting them down. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, it just becomes very unpleasant if they are accused of being abusive simply because they dont agree with another's thoughts!
  89. Lorikeet - 31, January, 2012 (20:36)

    I read everything that is posted on this blog. I don't have to agree with other people's ideas.

    I once had the same experience on a jury, but a lot of the biases were being directed at the person on trial by 5 out of 9 women. When I reported it to the Justice, she sent us all home.

    Someone I know who used to be high up in the courts told me that if I complained about the jury, I would never be used in the courts again.

    But as soon as that particular case cleared the courts, I was called up again and did 2 trials back to back, with no rejections coming from either the Prosecution or the Defence in any courtroom.

    I was told the legal teams would all have had access to my written complaint about jurors, biases and bullying.
  90. Lorikeet - 31, January, 2012 (20:21)

    There is quite a lot of work already being done to make the best use of food crops to feed people and animals, and also to return nutrients to the soil.

    One program worth watching is Landline on ABC1 at 12 noon on Sundays.

    I have seen a woman who feeds her horses for $1.00 each per day, simply by growing bean sprouts.

    Some time ago, the CSIRO started a 3 year project to find optimal rates of application of Biochar to the soil. Some farmers are already using it, but it's fairly costly.

    I have also seen sheep let loose on cereal crops for a time, before they are removed and the crop matures for human consumption.

    An animal grade of wheat is also specifically grown to feed livestock.
  91. Lorikeet - 31, January, 2012 (20:12)

    According to a television program last night, there are moves afoot to bring in another 38,000 visa holders to work in unpopular jobs such as waitressing, bar work and cleaning for which the annual income is only about $40,000.

    If the government lifted wages for low income earners, there would be plenty of Australian workers available to do these jobs.

    I think this will just be the government's latest foray into the Slave Labor Trade.
  92. Lorikeet - 31, January, 2012 (20:08)

    HOT OFF THE PRESS YESTERDAY

    Scientists are about to start human trials on an Arthritis Vaccine made from peppers (capsicums).

    I guess they must be using the "hair of the dog" approach, since foods from the nightshade family are thought to aggravate arthritis.

    Nightshade family:

    Tomato
    Capsicum/chilli
    Eggplant
    Potato
    Tobacco

    WEG:

    There is a large amount of manipulation coming from vested interests in almost everything. I think we live in a very corrupt world.

    When Clive Palmer (mining magnate) decided to fund the LNP's Queensland state election campaign in 2009, I'm sure it lost them plenty of votes.
  93. WEG - 31, January, 2012 (19:55)

    Thanks Kay. Sometimes I think there's market / political manipulation in such issues, and this impacts public acceptance to any change generally.
  94. Kay Kelly - 31, January, 2012 (19:09)

    WEG (cont.)

    So, yes, we are behind the USA, as usual. But the USA has a newer car fleet and has been deliberately making vehicles to run on ethanol. Some of the push has been coming from the corn growers who were experiencing very low prices before ethanol production commenced in earnest. The industry is fairly heavily subsidised by the US taxpayer.

    But ethanol production is not without cost. Ethanol production requires significant energy. If this comes from coal-fired power plants, CO2 output would be increased. Also, there is the controversy over land use and land clearing.

    So, we are agreed that we are headed in that direction, but to mandate it with such an old car fleet is a problem.
  95. Kay Kelly - 31, January, 2012 (18:59)

    WEG

    Yes, the USA started using ethanol some time ago (around 1970). There was a deliberate push to reduce oil consumption and enhance energy security. From 2000 to 2010 ethanol market share grew from 1% to 10% by volume. The USA and Brazil produce around 90% of the world's ethanol.

    The production of cars capable of using ethanol fuel has also occurred over time. As of 2011 most cars in the USA (which I believe has a newer car fleet than Australia) were able to run on 10% blends. In May 2011 a Bill was passed that required 50% of cars made in 2014 be manufactured and warrantied to operate on non-petroleum-based fuels - this includes a whole range of technologies. The percentage increases to 95% of cars in 2017.
  96. WEG - 31, January, 2012 (18:00)

    USA have had ethanol fuel for more than 20 years - no problems there. We will adapt. We got rid of the horse and cart.
  97. Bob B - 31, January, 2012 (16:43)

    Kay

    You hit the nail on the head with production of food viz-a-viz ethanol. Because its so critical it will also have to be managed properly not just with a plan put down years ahead but an interactive one from regular monitoring and analysis of food stuffs produced and consumption needs for people and fuels balanced. Now that will be novel for our current crop of pollies to get their heads around!
  98. Kay Kelly - 31, January, 2012 (16:34)

    Bob (cont.)

    And I don't know whether ethanol fuel itself can be improved or not. Clearly it cannot be used by marine vessels at the moment because it absorbs such huge amounts of water.

    The other issue is how the ethanol is made. Using good food crops has the potential to force up food prices around the world at a time when the world is struggling to produce enough food to eat. Also, destroying forests/rainforests to produce these crops for ethanol will increase carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

    The ultimate solution is to use good farming land for food production and waste for ethanol production. But it won't happen tomorrow, or even after March 24!
  99. Kay Kelly - 31, January, 2012 (16:34)

    Bob

    Obviously we need to move away from fossil fuels in the long term, and ethanol is one way to go. But as you say, it needs to be managed properly.

    Engines need to be redesigned to handle ethanol without damage, and they need to be on the road in such numbers that transition to them occurs without major cost. They really need to be available as cheaper second-hand vehicles to ensure that the poorer members of the community just buy them to replace existing older vehicles.
  100. Kay Kelly - 31, January, 2012 (16:13)

    Bob

    Yes, I used to have a lot of time for Bob Katter. He has certainly looked after the interests of his electorate, and I can understand why they vote him in with such a big majority. And a lot of what he has said about things like the deregulation of the dairy industry etc makes sense.

    But lately he has come up with a few doozies that have made me think he is assuming that what is good for his electorate is good for the entire country. He seems a bit out of his depth.

    I just hope his Party doesn't have undue influence on the Qld government after March 24. Remember when Borbidge had to govern under the heavy influence of One Nation.
  101. Bob B - 31, January, 2012 (15:39)

    Kay

    It seems Mr Katter has nothing sensible to offer here. To just blindly say it will be introduced irrespective of the consequential impacts on people, is just plain ignorant and arrogant. I do think he has said some sensible things over the years but this just belies belief and will do him harm electorally. Australians are not stupid.

    As I said earlier, ethanol is the way to go but the transition has to be properly managed.
  102. Laurakeet - 31, January, 2012 (11:52)

    Belated happy new year and happy Australia Day. I hope your holidays were as nice as mine. Looks like not a lot has changed on the blog. The discussion still goes in all directions, which is good to see. The good news for me is that I am going to be a grandmother again later this year. A very exciting time for our family.

    Should cyclists be licenced? I believe they (we, as I drive and ride) should be licenced. But I can see some practical difficulties in particular in relation to children riding on roads. A standard of road safety education would be necessary so they understand their obligations as road users. To state the obvious, greater consideration by all road users would solve many of the problems.

    Sue is on the mark about Shane Warne and more generally about Stat Decs.


  103. Sue Do-Nim - 31, January, 2012 (8:30)

    So the cyclist who had the “run in” with cricket god, Shane Warne has gone public and revealed his identity.

    He has also made a very modest civil claim for damages and is apparently going to call witnesses.

    The cyclist has also signed a Statutory Declaration in regard to the incident.

    It’ll be interesting to see whose version of events the court believes.

    If I was Mr. Warne, (heaven forbid), I think I might be tempted to settle out of court.
    --------------------

    Finally, Re. the making of a Statutory Declaration.

    I know of friends who have been asked to accept driver Demerit Points on behalf of friends or family so as that driver won’t lose their licence.

    This is a HIGHLY risky practise.

    It involves signing a Stat.Dec. in which you declare that the relevant events actually occurred.

    To knowingly make a false claim i.e. lie is the equivalent of committing perjury in court of law…Don’t risk it!
  104. Kay Kelly - 31, January, 2012 (7:38)

    Bob (cont.)

    When questioned, he had no real solution to the problem other than to mandate ethanol. He was very critical of NSW's Barry O'Farrell backing away from mandating ethanol in regular unleaded.

    His solution? Mandate ethanol in all fuel; force superannuation funds to buy back the farms and use the crops to make ethanol. The high petrol price is guaranteed to ensure a profit for all farming lands! Don't worry about the poor motorists! Thank god he isn't running the country.
  105. Kay Kelly - 31, January, 2012 (7:31)

    Bob

    I watched Channel 7 last night re foreign ownership of agricultural land. Apparently foreign ownership has risen from around 5% to 11%. Many countries other than China are buying land. As I said before, I too have concerns about our food-producing land being foreign owned.

    On Channel 7 this morning, Bob Katter was interviewed. He conceded that foreign countries were offering good prices to buy farms that Australians appeared to have little interest in buying and working.
  106. Kay Kelly - 31, January, 2012 (6:31)

    Robyn

    Re our previous discussions about Barry O'Farrell mandating ethanol in ordinary unleaded petrol:

    On TV this morning it was announced that O'Farrell has backed away from this crazy idea. No doubt ethanol fuel will remain as a choice (no problem with that) but ordinary unleaded petrol will remain. Apparently there was so much opposition to his crazy and sneaky plan! Thank heavens sanity has prevailed!
  107. Kay Kelly - 31, January, 2012 (4:54)

    Lorikeet

    "And so the bullying goes on, without any content" - your blog 20:32 30/1.

    That's how I would describe your blog to me at 19:39 29/1. Where's the content? Unable to address the issue, you attack the person.

    This is just typical of your blogs. See also your blogs at 6:29 28/1;6:31 28/1; 8:01 28/1; 12:52 28/1; a deleted comment I said contained the same abusive words as 'Claude' had used on an earlier blog; and 15:27 30/1.

    May I suggest our blogs have a lot more content. We are discussing the future of the blog.
  108. Bob B - 30, January, 2012 (22:26)

    As you say rmcn, its not being read. It is however being responded too. To read something conotes it has been understood in some way when put as - I have read it and make the following comment.

    Unfortunatley, its often demonstrated that it hasn't been understood at all as most would understand it. Then its used as an excuse to claim victimisation and proceed with politically flavoured diatribe.

    Is my comment abuse or saying it as I see it. I play the ball as I see it as do others. Few use any opportunity to push their barrow up hill all the time.

    Methinks there is a screw loose is another oft put Australian saying.
  109. rmcn - 30, January, 2012 (21:40)

    Yes Lorikeet, the bullying goes on, by you!! You havent read a word anyone has said. We can look forward to your demented ravings on every blog. What a shame you like to ruin it for everyone. But why do I say this, youre not even reading it.....
  110. Lorikeet - 30, January, 2012 (20:32)

    And so the bullying goes on, without any content.....
  111. Helen - 30, January, 2012 (18:57)

    Goodness me!! We need another topic quickly! I have been up to my eyebrows this last couple of days & couldn't contribute. I also had little miss almost three here as well.

    You lovely people, save your sanity & don't respond at all to the insults & attacks. Follow the same instructions as for magpies with nests, Keep your distance otherwise you will be attacked!

    There are enough rational bloggers to have a good discussion & odd bit of humour with so we can carry on regardless.

    Also we also have the same right of complaint as well. I think turning a blind "finger" is the way to go, not eye as we can't see anyone can we!...

    Won't be here tomorrow or Wednesday, but hope to pop in once in a while.

    Take care - time to shut down, cheers...
  112. Robyn - 30, January, 2012 (17:27)

    Oh and Lorikeet, this is not bullying. It is discussing a problem that many see as existing. Furthermore, it is not being discussed behind your back. You have to admit that you end up fighting with people and that this has been going on for a very long time. You have chosen to have no insight and to wipe all challenge away under the heading of "being bullied". You do speak to people badly. You do hide behind grandiose statements and you do push your own view on others incessantly and attack them when they disagree with you.
  113. Robyn - 30, January, 2012 (17:15)

    (cntd)

    We all have the choice to leave the blog which sadly has been a course chosen by some wonderful bloggers of the past. I have a hunch that the regulars are committed to normalizing what would otherwise be dominance of Lorikeet's views following the first few days of active response to a new topic. If more contributed her dominant presence would fade more into the background.
  114. Robyn - 30, January, 2012 (17:11)

    I actually like the way our moderator honours group autonomy and nobody can deny that she deletes a fair bit of dialogue. If the moderator was over controlling and too heavy handed the cohesion of the blog would be lost. She appears to be between a rock and a hard place because when she does enact a measure to create some control such as limiting the word allowance, everyone (including me) complains. We all share a problem with dynamics and should not make the moderator the scapegoat for it. I repeat that she can do no more than delete abuse/insult and overt political "campaigning" that does get overdone by one member. (tbc)
  115. Bob B - 30, January, 2012 (15:58)

    An Australian saying 'If the hat fits wear it'.
  116. Lorikeet - 30, January, 2012 (15:27)

    I had been out for most of the day, and when I got home, what did I see?

    Nearly a whole day's worth of abuse, solely directed at me, by the usual bunch of bullies.

    I hope the Moderator (who has not had a chat with me about anything) is going to delete just about all of today's abuse, none of which has any useful content.

    This bears out my contention that the same group of people spend the whole day attacking other people using Bullying Blocs on blogs ...

    No one is safe, not even when they are out.
  117. Bob B - 30, January, 2012 (11:51)

    Kay we have had 22 inches this month and all of that since the 14th. We too are up a bit at 318ft so Google Earth tells me. I worked in the Seaway Tower at Southport this morning and all I could see over into the Hinterland where I live was light rain etc. Not a drop on the coast though. A break will be more than welcome.

    I'm pleased you saw something of the Chinese saying. When I read it out on Saturday night my friends did not understand my chuckle as I saw its application in this blog straight away.
  118. Kay Kelly - 30, January, 2012 (11:27)

    Bob

    Sounds like good advice from your Chinese fortune cookie.

    BTW I think we've had enough rain for now! Over 16 inches in the week just gone. Being up at over 400 metres high, we are permanently in the clouds! Humidity approaching 100%. Everything going mouldy. Summer, glorious summer! But at least we don't get flooded!
  119. Bob B - 30, January, 2012 (11:07)

    I for one would not like to the blog go. We have one contributor only who is a constant irritant but she is entitled to be.

    Yes I support the deletion of abuse but general comment of any nature should be welcome and treated by others for what it is. I have chosen not to ignore but not to respond because hisotry of the blog shows its deterirates thereafter.

    You must admit she has been much tamer of late. I suspect some 'advice' was provided her by the NSA administrator in this respect - cut it out or your one or more email addresses will be deleted.

    I must share with you a Chinese fortune cookie saying I opened the other night because it has some ring of truth though the nature of success is incomplete.

    "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence and then success is sure."
  120. Kay Kelly - 30, January, 2012 (9:52)

    Robyn

    I agree with what you say about maintaining the blog. Yes, the Moderator should deal immediately with abusive comments directed at other bloggers. And, of course, any blatantly party-political advertising should also be deleted.

    But challenging dominance, misrepresentations, lies and (lack of) logic should be the province of other bloggers. Without any personal abuse. That's what blogs are for.
  121. Robyn - 30, January, 2012 (9:36)

    Sorry, thought my net connection was gone again so kept hitting the submit button.
  122. Robyn - 30, January, 2012 (9:34)

    (continued)

    If the difficult person continued to disrupt the group they would be told to leave. It is probably not fair or legal to ban someone from a blog. I think the only way our moderator could get heavier is to delete all insulting contributions. Challenging dominance, misrepresentations, lies and (lack of) logic has to remain the task of other bloggers.
  123. Robyn - 30, January, 2012 (9:34)

    (continued)

    If the difficult person continued to disrupt the group they would be told to leave. It is probably not fair or legal to ban someone from a blog. I think the only way our moderator could get heavier is to delete all insulting contributions. Challenging dominance, misrepresentations, lies and (lack of) logic has to remain the task of other bloggers.
  124. Robyn - 30, January, 2012 (9:34)

    (continued)

    If the difficult person continued to disrupt the group they would be told to leave. It is probably not fair or legal to ban someone from a blog. I think the only way our moderator could get heavier is to delete all insulting contributions. Challenging dominance, misrepresentations, lies and (lack of) logic has to remain the task of other bloggers.
  125. Robyn - 30, January, 2012 (9:30)

    Sue Do-Nim,

    I concur with Kay's comments and would not like to see the blog shut down. I also feel for our moderator who daily has to deal with the presence of a blog member that many other blog members have been unable to deal with in spite of many attempts and varying tactics. I do think that Lorikeet has moderated a lot of her responses compared with her past behavior on blog strands that have been deleted. So there has been some change, albeit of minor proportion.

    I used to facilitate groups. If a group member was difficult, dominating and disrupting the benefit of the experience for everyone else the first plan of action would be to see if the other group members could bring that person into line. However, actual abuse would be confronted and shut down immediately by me. (tbc)
  126. Kay Kelly - 30, January, 2012 (8:15)

    Sue Do-Nim (cont.)

    It would be a great shame to see all this go because of one blogger. Rather than closing the blog, I think the Moderator needs to be very strict with the application of the blogging guidelines, with particular attention to Lorikeet's comments about other bloggers.

    The individual abuse we receive for not agreeing with one particular blogger is most regrettable.
  127. Kay Kelly - 30, January, 2012 (8:14)

    Sue Do-Nim

    Yes, it great to see the wide range of views on various topics. We can all learn from other people's perspectives. That is valuable in itself and it broadens one's knowledge. I always make a point of reading all comments that come before mine so that I can agree with them, or give a different slant. I think we can all benefit from this approach.

    I also enjoy the exchange of information between bloggers about their experience, families, backgrounds and day to day activities. It is like being part of a little cyber friendship club. It certainly brightens up my day.
  128. Sue Do-Nim - 30, January, 2012 (7:58)

    Kay K:
    Your statements @ 6:25 are 100 % correct.

    I would have thought a Blog administered by such a respectable entity as NSA would be a platform for the rational exchange of ideas among fellow Seniors.

    It’s anything but.

    The whole tone of discussion on this site is now adversarial,antagonistic and confrontational. It should be welcoming place where life experiences and knowledge can be shared without the unrelenting ravings of any one person.

    New contributors should be embraced not howled down and derided.
    Why does nastiness abound and why is it allowed to prevail?

    I believe this NSA Blog, in its present form, should be shut down or at
    the very least restructured and more professionally controlled.

    At present it’s a failed experiment.

    What purpose does it serve?
  129. Kay Kelly - 30, January, 2012 (6:25)

    rmcn

    I too was very surprised when I first started watching this blog. Bloggers were being attacked rather than ideas exchanged and debated. And it didn't take very long to realise what, or rather who, the problem was.

    And after a while, I felt it necessary to start blogging myself, partly to help debunk some of the many ill-informed and, dare I say, somewhat paranoid ramblings of one blogger in particular. Many of these ramblings could have really frightened some bloggers who perhaps didn't realise their lack of basis.

    And then the constant boasting about her intelligence, and the stupidity of everyone who disagreed with her. Very childish.
  130. Kay Kelly - 30, January, 2012 (6:00)

    Lorikeet (cont.)

    I have already said that I have no interest in communicating with him.

    It is a pity you find it so difficult to debate an ISSUE. You always turn on the PERSON.

    It tells us a lot about you.
  131. Kay Kelly - 30, January, 2012 (5:58)

    Lorikeet

    You are losing the ability to read.

    I said Katter was the enemy IF he talks about mandating ethanol in fuel! It is entirely up to him to prove himself the enemy - I was just going by a news clip in which he said that if he had power in Queensland, that on Day 1 he would MANDATE ethanol in all regular unleaded fuel. Forgive me if I believed him.

    You boasted about having dinner with him, and exchanging emails. I thought this would give you an excellent opportunity to renew contact with someone you clearly admire. After all, in so doing, you would be doing something for the poorer members of the community - a group whose cause you are always championing. It would add significantly to their cost of living.
  132. rmcn - 29, January, 2012 (21:13)

    Lorikeet - I first looked at this blog about 3 months ago, and wondered why instead of sensible discussion it was all stupid back stabbing, and all of it from you. Any sensible, jovial conversation is immediately shot down with your vindictive ramblings. You have hijacked the complete NSA Blog to suit yourself, and to cause arguments. You are a nasty woman. I believe on the internet you are known as a troll. You may find this amusing but I think you are a very sad individual. To Kay, Helen, Robyn and the rest please keep on and try to ignore this ignorant creature
  133. Lorikeet - 29, January, 2012 (19:39)

    And all of this flack is directed at Katter by a woman who hasn't even asked him what his plan is.... a very narrow perspective.

    Criticising a Pro-Australian politician based on a single policy (which hasn't been investigated by the critic) is also very poor form.

    Why doesn't Kay contact Katter's office and ask what the plan is? Why doesn't she read up on Distributism?

    I think we all know the answer.

  134. Kay Kelly - 29, January, 2012 (16:45)

    Lorikeet

    Katter is the enemy if he talks about MANDATING ethanol in petrol!

    He may be looking after his sugar-farming constituents by proposing an ethanol industry. But he would certainly make motoring significantly more expensive for the average motorist. In fact, it would impact even more heavily on the poorer members of the community who are more likely to have older cars - and they are the ones who could least afford to pay the 10c per litre extra for premium.

    So next time you are having dinner, or exchanging emails, with your friend Mr Katter, you might point that out to him.
  135. Lorikeet - 29, January, 2012 (15:06)

    I'm sure I read somewhere that the ethanol currently being used in Australia comes from Brazil, which is also the source of the sugar which has driven Australian cane farmers to commit suicide.

    When we taught Thailand we grow sugar, we put another nail in the coffins of our own farmers, so I guess some is coming from there as well.

    To my knowledge, Greens have been riding both Labor and Liberal policies for decades. Greens are the main proponents for the emptying of our wallets with toxic levels of taxation.

    Green agendas pervade our society. Anyone who thinks otherwise would do well to pay greater attention to what is proposed by government.

    The Carbon Religion is Green religion. It has been embraced by both Labor and Liberals, and trades into the worldwide redistribution of wealth.
  136. Lorikeet - 29, January, 2012 (14:59)

    (cont)

    There is a lot to be said for processing our own home grown fruits and vegetables and using our own wastes as above; also as part of briquettes/pellets for animal fodder in times of drought.

    I don't believe that Katter is the enemy at all. The 3 parties that the NSA invites to its forums all pose a significant risk for Australia and its economy.

    On ABC 24 today, I saw commentators discussing superannuation and the need for Australia to manage its own funds without interference from global interests.

    Hallelujah, for a bit of common sense!

    I think it is possible that lots of people are having problems with their internet connections due to the weather being so atrocious. When kids have nothing to do, they can really slow the systems down.
  137. Lorikeet - 29, January, 2012 (14:57)

    Well as I have said many times, the main aims of Labor/Greens and Liberals are to empty our wallets and purses, and empowering somebody else to do the same (e.g. oil barons and large corporates selling the fuel, including Woolworths and Wesfarmers).

    If everyone switches to premium fuels, they will be servicing the agenda at both ends.

    Then there is a third aim, which is to make us buy new cars imported from Asia which can handle the ethanol fuels ... good for their economy, bad for ours at both individual household and national level.

    I thought the Greens considered ethanol to be more environmentally friendly, but I think they would be more interested in my idea of making it from the discards from agriculture (e.g. outer leaves of cabbages, corn husks etc).
  138. Robyn - 29, January, 2012 (13:53)

    Kay, enjoyed your interesting comments. My own comment repeated some of what you said because I am limping along with connection problems . One minute we're connected and the next minute we're not, all day long. I write my comment and then have to wait to send it. Very frustrating!
  139. Robyn - 29, January, 2012 (13:41)

    You may be right WEG, I am not sure of all the facts, but it is the present Government that wants to implement it. They could put a stop to it but have ignored advice to not go ahead. The writer states that "the ethanol producer, Manildra, has donated generously to both Labor - which introduced the Biofuels Act in 2009 - and the coalition, which it wants to implement the mandate".
    They are also being criticized for trying to sneak it in without advertising to the public that they are making this move.

    Greens have very little power at all in the NSW government. There is no coalition of Labor/Greens. I think your hatred of the Greens slants your reasoning at times. I am more inclined to believe Sean Nicholl's account that the Greens do not support the E10 mandate as an environmental policy.
  140. Kay Kelly - 29, January, 2012 (13:32)

    Bob

    I would imagine Brazil is the most likely South American country to go over to ethanol fuel. Brazil more or less pioneered ethanol production from sugar cane. The USA and Brazil are the world's main producers of ethanol. I think the USA uses corn and soy bean (will check that).
  141. Kay Kelly - 29, January, 2012 (13:24)

    Robyn

    Whilst I read that the Greens do not support this move, are they opposing it because it is a Liberal government pushing it or is it some other reason? I always had the impression the Greens were 'hot to trot' over ethanol fuel and any other renewable fuel.

    It is clear that NSW was headed down this path before O'Farrell was elected, and O'Farrell has just continued with the policy as opposed to dumping it.

    I guess NSW voters will have to bombard their local members with their opposition to the policy. I can see why O'Farrell tried to sneak it in.
  142. Kay Kelly - 29, January, 2012 (13:17)

    Robyn (cont.)

    I have never insulted my petrol-powered Ford ute with ethanol fuel!

    Whilst it is clear we need to move away from oil-based fuels in the longer term, the use of good food crops for ethanol production will eventually increase the cost of food right across the world. And with an ever-increasing world population, starvation will beckon if good food crops are being sold at a premium price to fuel producers.

    It's a bit of a Catch 22 situation.

    But certainly we do need engines that are designed to operate safely using non oil-based fuels. But if we could use waste to produce the fuel, that would be a win/win.
  143. Kay Kelly - 29, January, 2012 (13:08)

    Robyn

    Thanks for letting me know about the article. I have read it - to my horror! This is what I am afraid of up here in Qld if Katter has any influence on the government.

    I found an article dated May 11, 2007, saying that NSW (Labor) was going to mandate ethanol (2%) but moving towards E-10. Now clearly O'Farrell's Liberal government is following suit! I am prepared to believe both Parties have made commitments to Manildra, as Manildra has covered its bases by donating generously to both Parties.

    Even the fuel companies don't support it. Nor, to their credit, do the Greens! It is definitely going to dramatically increase the cost of fuel, as drivers will be forced to use premium fuel which is usually around 10 cents per litre more expensive.
  144. Bob B - 29, January, 2012 (13:03)

    One South American country has made the change to ethanol but I don't know much about it. It can be done if managed properly. To just say it will be done by a date 6 months down the track is, to me, inept management.

    I do agree that we must move in that direction.
  145. WEG - 29, January, 2012 (12:59)

    ....correction. The E10 mandate was an existing agreement made by the former corrupt NSW Labor government. It was also a Labor – Green initiative.

    Premier O'Farrell now has the task of removing this policy. However, he’ll have some difficulties as the Nationals (farmers) see value in production crops to support E10.

  146. Bob B - 29, January, 2012 (12:56)

    Robyn

    Am at Coast Guard at the moment so will be brief.

    Ethanol is Ok if the engine and car fuel systems have been designed for it. This is not the case with the cars currently in use. Some have a 'tolerance' for E10 but many don't. Its calorific value is well below normal unleaded but the cost is just below so its not economical at all.

    My wife's car use unleaded 91 so we would have to use 95 or 98 at the premium price. My car uses 95 which is still readily available in SEQld but this is not so in NSW. We would be forced to use 98 at a wopping premium.

    Whilst its the right decision to make its implementation must span many more years and E10 must be sold at an economically equivalent price to unleaded 91. Only in this way can the citizens keepace cost effectively.
  147. Robyn - 29, January, 2012 (11:53)

    Kay,

    There is an interesting opinion piece in the Sydney Morning Herald, weekend edition by Sean Nicholls in the News Review section. It is about how the NSW O'Farrell coalition government plans to get rid of regular unleaded petrol in NSW by 1 July this year. Only E10 ethanol petrol will be sold. You will probably find it in google if interested, entitled "Leak adds fuel to the heat over unleaded ban".

    I never put ethanol based petrol in my car. I agree with you it is bad news for the motor and not cost efficient. In the article it states that "not even the Green's support the E10 mandate as an environmental policy".

  148. Kay Kelly - 29, January, 2012 (11:47)

    Lorikeet

    This topic, like most things, is of course complex. It is always about balance. Foreign owners bring money to this country, pay taxes and employ Australian workers. Many companies have Australian shareholders. Those are the pluses of foreign investment.

    As for the minuses - much of the profits leave the country; we become more dependent on foreigner investment; we may be losing control of our agricultural and mining lands.

    Don't forget that many Australian companies have invested overseas as well. If we close our doors, so may other countries.

    I don't agree with your theory about the UN takeover. I believe it is all about balancing the pros and cons of being part of a global economy.
  149. Lorikeet - 29, January, 2012 (11:28)

    It is also important to remember that public/private partnerships use taxpayers' money to set up non-government corporations to collect the bounty for themselves.

    This depletes government coffers at both ends of the deal, while consumers and workers cop a financial hiding from both government and the private enterprises involved.

    At the same time foreign debt is racked up by government, smaller businesses and ordinary citizens, who are all trying to keep their heads above water despite having less disposable income.

    Unfortunately this just compounds the problem and the huge bounty available to banks.

    I think we can expect to see the Occupy Movement against Corporate Greed become much larger fairly quickly.

    This is why I believe Barack Obama is about to start training a UN army in Darwin to subjugate the angry masses, with the full support of both Labor/Liberals.
  150. Lorikeet - 29, January, 2012 (11:21)

    Why do you think I am always referring to the many treaties signed by both Labor and Liberal governments? The major parties have been selling us out to other nations for decades at the behest of the UN.

    The whole box and dice is more complex than most people could possibly understand, and this is deliberate... not that we are kept in the loop anyway.

    I suspect that the clash with aboriginal peoples on Australia Day was orchestrated by Labor/Liberals to appease their corporate mates, who probably want all Land Rights abolished so they can take even greater control of Australia's mining and agricultural industries.

    Aborigines are Australian citizens, and should not be used as political footballs by anyone.
  151. Kay Kelly - 29, January, 2012 (8:54)

    Bob

    This appears to be the latest policy document on foreign investment:
    www.firb.gov.au/.../Australia's_Foreign_Investment_Policy_Jan_2011..
  152. Kay Kelly - 29, January, 2012 (8:12)

    Bob (cont.)

    My concerns are for our food-producing land, and our income-producing land (mines). No government to date has shown any real interest in regulating foreign ownership of these lands. Governments are focused on delivering services and balancing the budgets TODAY.

    It is a big ask to expect them to forgo taxes etc today to provide for tomorrow. But I think this does need to be seriously considered. But it would have to be bi-partisan to gain acceptance across the country. And that is a really big ask!

    In considering this regulation of foreign ownership, one has to also take into account shorter-term economic concerns. But I certainly agree that having foreigners own all our food producing and income producing land is a scary thing. I think at this stage, the majority of foreign ownership is UK & USA - could be wrong. Need to check on latest stats.

  153. Kay Kelly - 29, January, 2012 (8:04)

    Bob

    Yes, I agree it is a problem. Unfortunately, there are many farmers out there who wish to retire, but have no one interested in inheriting the farm in order to work it. When a Chinese or some other foreign buyer offers an excellent price for their farm, who can blame them for selling?

    Same thing with mining companies. But unless Australian companies are interested in taking up the mining rights and have the money to develop the site, it is inevitable the foreign companies will take over.
  154. Bob B - 29, January, 2012 (7:46)

    I have heard that Channel 7 on Monday night has a segment discussing the infiltration of Chineze companies across a number of Australian activities - like agriculture and mining.

    A number of us have discussed this throughout the blogs. I have concerns about how we do not regulate this in some way and unless we change this it will be to our detriment.
  155. Kay Kelly - 29, January, 2012 (7:17)

    Lorikeet

    You are no 'Tall Poppy'. Just a person who has different views from everyone else. A 'Tall Poppy' is someone whose talents or achievements elevate him/her above the rest of the population. I have seen no evidence of this in your case.

    Clearly we have different views on many topics. The Wild Rivers legislation is one of them. I have not sunk "the boot in"! I very calmly stated my support for the legislation. I am not allowed to do this?

    It is definitely my view that 'Claude' is one of your sock-puppets. I have stated my reasons why. It is my opinion and I am entitled to have it. Just like you are entitled to have your opinion that I am "a narrow thinker".

    Disagreeing with your point of view should not be a reason for you to start using insulting words towards me.
  156. Lorikeet - 29, January, 2012 (6:50)

    Kay:

    I suggest you read the links to gain a greater perspective on how Native Title is sometimes respected and sometimes abused, depending on who has money to make.

    I am also concerned about the exclusion of ANY Australian from large tracts of Australian land, while companies owned by other nations get a free kick.

    I think the aboriginal peoples continue to be confused as to their national identity, which is something the government needs to address comprehensively and without double standards.

    The NSA blog is not meant to be used to make false allegations against other bloggers. This is quite a trivial occupation, don't you think?

    Such ploys are generally used to shut down debate.
  157. Lorikeet - 29, January, 2012 (6:48)

    Please look at the content and the actual and possible effects of government actions, instead of having the main aim of sinking the boot in.

    I am a writer and am used to delivering material in a brief, decisive way which appeals to editors and also gets the attention of the reader.

    Please try to think a bit more about what is happening around us every day, how various actions interact and intersect to change the way we all live. This would be a better use of your time than engaging in the Tall Poppy Syndrome.

    BTW The more I have seen and heard about the Australia Day problem, the more I am inclined to believe that a deliberate setup has occurred. I think we should all continue to consider the main aims and possible outcomes, then put our heads together.
  158. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (18:18)

    Lorikeet

    It is totally amazing that you chose almost exactly the same words to insult me as Claude did in the blog where the Moderator wrote to all and threatened to terminate the blog. A coincidence? I don't think so!

    I have no idea what "hook" I'm supposed to be trying to get off!

    Bob is right. Your words are hardly those of someone who is "calm".

    Being a conservationist, I fully support Labor's Wild Rivers legislation. From what I have read, so do the relevant Aboriginal elders. Only Noel Pearson seems to disagree.
  159. Bob B - 28, January, 2012 (16:03)

    Lorikeet

    You claim to be calm but here you go again with violence in your words. There must be a struggling within your inards that you are not aware of for it to surface as often as it does.

    You are displaying a predisposition to violence and that's not pleasant or calm at all.
  160. Lorikeet - 28, January, 2012 (15:55)

    This is the Greenies' take on Wild Rivers.

    http://www.wilderness.org.au/campaigns/river-protection/queenslands-wild-rivers

    My belief is that the longer term goal is to turn the whole of northern Australia over to Indonesia or China, after all human habitation has been removed.
  161. Lorikeet - 28, January, 2012 (15:51)

    Check out this hornet's nest of manipulation:

    http://www.solidarity.net.au/28/abbott-and-wild-rivers-its-all-about-big-business-not-aboriginal-rights/
  162. Lorikeet - 28, January, 2012 (15:39)

    False claims of sock puppetry won't get you off the hook this time. If a man named Claude has graced us with his presence in the last few weeks, please do not drive him from the blog with your false accusations.

    In the early days of white settlement, aborigines were buried in the sand and their heads were knocked off with cricket bats.

    In more recent decades, the game plan has changed. Aboriginal issues get kicked back and forth as a political football.

    At the opening of Question Time, the speaker gives due homage to the traditional owners of the land that Parliament House stands on.

    Should we be surprised then, that on Australia Day, they start angrily demanding their crown back?
  163. Bob B - 28, January, 2012 (15:03)

    Lorikeet

    Yes 'unlikely' does not mean its 'impossible'. Most people understand that. I also understand you are being impossible and unlikely to agree with most. You are certainly in the 2% club. Is that' box brain' or 'box head'?

    From the latest onslaught, can you understand why most people give up discussion with you - its always one sided ............
  164. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (13:32)

    Lorikeet

    I think you just agreed with what John O'Grady and I said we had read about HIV transmission via saliva.

    And your point is...?
  165. Lorikeet - 28, January, 2012 (13:26)

    The article goes on to say that they have never encountered anyone with a needle stick injury with AIDS outside of a health environment.

    This only tells us that no one who contracted AIDS came to be tested immediately after a needle stick injury incurred outside of a medical clinic.

    I have worked with researchers in various medical fields. Eventually most researchers' findings get overturned.

    "An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."
  166. Lorikeet - 28, January, 2012 (13:18)

    Kay:

    I am completely calm.

    Now let us take a look at the following excerpt from a health report on transmission of HIV/AIDS through saliva. I will put the most important words in upper case, so hopefully no one misses the point.

    ----------------

    "Can you get HIV from saliva? How about tears or sweat?"

    "According to the CDC, researchers have found HIV in the saliva and tears of some infected people. But the quantity of the virus in these fluids is very low, and the CDC HAS FOUND NO CASES in which HIV has been transmitted to an uninfected person in saliva or tears. HIV has not been found in sweat, and sweat HAS NEVER BEEN FOUND to transmit HIV.

    ----------------
  167. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (13:14)

    Lorikeet

    My god you talk a lot of rubbish at times!

    Are your views representative of the DLP? I truly am curious.
  168. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (13:08)

    Lorikeet

    You are the only one I have heard using those words ("pro-animal indoctrination") and certainly the only one on this site. You did try to put these words into my mouth too. That was rather offensive of you.

    I just said that I did NOT think politicians took a decision not to charge any protesters (9:53). What are you reading?

    You lost the previous discussion quite comprehensively. Now you sound quite rattled. I expect abuse and insults from you soon.
  169. Lorikeet - 28, January, 2012 (13:04)

    Since the Australia Day incident, things have moved along apace, with aboriginal activists demanding that if they are not given their rights as the sovereign owners of the land, we must get out of their nation.

    Some people see them as a conquered people who are lucky they were not exterminated on arrival of the conquering whites.

    However most of the current problems stem from the government alternating between 2 positions:

    1. Empowering them over other Australians.
    2. Kicking them in the guts.

    The aboriginal peoples have good reason to be angry when they are kicked out of Cape York under Wild Rivers legislation, while Chinese miners get to stay and plunder our mineral wealth (bauxite mines north of Weipa).

    Neither Labor nor Liberals know how get it right.
  170. Lorikeet - 28, January, 2012 (13:02)

    Next time they replay the footage of the incident involving Gillard/Abbott and the angry aborigines, please do the following and see if your opinion changes.

    Close your ears and use only your eyes to evaluate what you see. Then check out the front page newspaper photograph of Julia and her protector, and think about what it actually depicts.

    Also be aware that a lot of useful (to us) footage has hit the cutting room floor.

    Check out Tony Abbott casting his eyes heavenward at Julia's concern for his welfare.
  171. Lorikeet - 28, January, 2012 (12:52)

    Here it is, Kay. A quote from you:

    ----------

    Only you carry on about "pro-animal indoctrination"!

    ---------

    This suggests I am out on my own, with no supporters. If you knew how to evaluate your own input, you would find it highly offensive.

    You have since said politicians "took" a decision. Who are they taking decisions from?

    Robyn:

    That's exactly the sort of attitude I would expect from a supporter of the Greens. Down the track, you may end up finding out the hard way who is on the losing side of the argument.

    This blog has had quite a few government workers who actually believe what the government tells them, and don't use their independent thinking skills to fully evaluate the local, national and global agendas across the board.
  172. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (12:00)

    John O'Grady

    Not a topic I am familiar with, but my Googling suggests you are correct. On one Q & A site it does say the virus is present in saliva, but in such low amounts that infection is unlikely through kissing. Only one case so far - the infected person also had blood in his mouth, so the spread occurred via the blood, not the saliva.

    Not a pleasant subject.
  173. John O'Grady - 28, January, 2012 (11:52)

    I have read that HIV/AIDS may be transmited in saliva if the 'clean' party consumes around 1 litre from an infected person.

    I submit that even the most ardent of randy youth would draw the line well before that number could be reached.

    Some of us, however may have been utter sexual hogs in their day, or possibly continue to so be!
  174. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (9:53)

    WEG

    Yes, I think is probably a 'political' decision not to charge any of the rioters (to date). When I say 'political', I don't necessarily mean that politicians took the decision. No, it just seems to 'stir up a hornet's nest' to take any action against aboriginal people for whatever reason.

    If there actually is evidence that any particular people (black or white) committed a serious offense, I would hope that appropriate action will be taken.
  175. Bob B - 28, January, 2012 (9:47)

    The Tent Embassy is a disgrace. It does not perform the function of an embassy and has no reason for its being.

    A staff member of mine once had the job of oversight of this place. The police have tried to have it removed many times but do gooders and week pollies have stymied these attempts. It is not pretty and even though the tents are partially hidden behind trees, its not a nice look. It's time for it to go once and for all.
  176. Bob B - 28, January, 2012 (9:42)

    I too was impressed with Julia's immediate concern for her political opponent in the so called 'café incident'.
    Having lived in Canberra for many years and having been MC at a wedding reception held in the Lobby Restaurant, it's quite a misnomer to call it a café. There is a 'hole in the wall that sells light lunch but inside is quite a nice restaurant.

    It was well patronised by lobbyist in the days of old Parliament House - you would see many a polly being dined and wined as I have been by company reps peddling their wares.
  177. WEG - 28, January, 2012 (9:35)

    Kay – I agree 100%. PM Gillard, and the position of Prime Minister demands the respect of all Australians despite their political standing. It’s beyond reproach. The Federal Police have failed us (to date) in not taking action against this scourge of a group.
  178. WEG - 28, January, 2012 (9:23)

    As revealed in Canberra with the ‘ginger’ group ‘tent city’ riots, it’s not unusual for minority groups within Australia, those that lack ethics, those extreme left political groups, those religious fanatical groups, those that are desperate, isolated and alienated groups (for whatever reason), really do create a challenge for any democratic society.
    Australians tend to tolerate these groups. Government tend to appease them mainly though welfare. If the welfare platform is not effective we have anarchy.
    Greece is a perfect example of a Welfare State that can’t afford to pay their way.
  179. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (9:18)

    As you probably all know by now, I am not PM Gillard's most fervent supporter.

    But I must say I do feel sorry for her over this latest revelation. I think she handled the 'cafe incident' extremely well - especially her immediate concern for Tony Abbott.

    Now to find a junior staffer involved - she must really be thinking "Life wasn't meant to be easy"!
  180. Robyn - 28, January, 2012 (8:58)

    You just beat me to it Bob B. Having net connection problems here which began on Wednesday night after a very strange storm. We had wind gusts which howled in with the strangest high pitch scream I have ever heard and each gust hit the house with massive violence. It was like cyclonic gusts rather than a full blown cyclone. I have never experienced anything like that before. Inexplicably, the Internet came back on this morning but could easily go off again.
  181. Robyn - 28, January, 2012 (8:49)

    As self appointed adjudicator I declare Kay the winner of the flying fox/Hendra argument. My decision is based on her expertise, knowledge and superior debating technique. Sorry Lorikeet but you have lost this argument well and truly. No sour grapes now - take it on the chin! If you need consoling you could try inviting your mate Bob Katter to another romantic dinner. I'm sure the two of you get on like soul mates.

    WEG,
    Re your comment 28 Jan at 6:27:
    The Government is not scraping at the bottom of the barrel. You are!


  182. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (8:37)

    Bob

    Thank you ever so much for calling the game! As you said, game over!

    Even I was close to screaming.
  183. Bob B - 28, January, 2012 (8:30)

    Game over girls - 6-2, 6-0 Kay Kelly on Lorikeet. No it wasn't the predicted screemer with but one only screeming!!!
  184. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (8:14)

    Lorikeet

    Re your blog at 8:01. What on earth are you talking about? Please explain.
  185. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (8:11)

    Lorikeet

    The fact that no other bloggers are engaging in this blogging duel suggests to me that they aren't particularly interested.

    Only you would imagine I am "losing the argument". I doubt other bloggers would agree (even if they were remotely interested in this discourse about animals).

    I am not even arguing. I have just presented some well-known, well-accepted, easily-Googled facts on the topic.

    But no one has ever managed to dispel any of the many ill-informed ideas you have about lots of subjects. I don't imagine that I will be any more successful.

    But in case there are any bloggers out there who are interested in better-informed facts on these issues, I present them - based on my wide experience and learnings.

  186. Lorikeet - 28, January, 2012 (8:01)

    BTW language which suggests that someone's opinion is not shared by others is a very poor debating method, and is generally rejected by fair minded people.
  187. Lorikeet - 28, January, 2012 (7:59)

    Kay:

    You can't say other bloggers are bored to death just because you are losing the argument.

    A broad thinking person supports action to protect the general community and farm & domestic animals, especially on biosecurity issues which are poorly understood, even by researchers.

    I can remember a time when we were told that HIV/AIDS could not be spread through saliva. I was certainly NOT convinced, and it was eventually found that saliva was indeed risky.

    Some of what you said certainly supports the government's pro-native animal/anti-human/anti-farm animal policies.
  188. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (7:51)

    Lorikeet (cont.)

    There are also times of the year when food is in short supply and they feel sorry for the animals. Nature would have no hesitation in allowing some animals to die of starvation, thus maintaining the population at naturally sustainable levels.

    Being the kind human beings that they are, people then feed the starving animals. It is all quite understandable.

    Only you carry on about "pro-animal indoctrination"!
  189. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (7:46)

    Lorikeet

    I have not "agreed that it is pro-animal indoctrination of the general populace which is largely to blame for over-populations of problem species"!!

    I made no reference to "pro-animal indoctrination" etc. Once again, your interpretation of what I said. Please learn to be more precise.

    People feeding wildlife is worldwide, and has existed for a very long time. The reasons are generally well-meaning. People enjoy wildlife near them. They realise that feeding them will bring them closer - hence increase their enjoyment.
  190. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (7:31)

    Oops - point 4 about other bloggers should have been point 5.
  191. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (7:30)

    Lorikeet

    1. I do not live in Albany Creek. I live further north on acreage.

    2. The first report to which you gave a link is dated 2009. Much research has been done since then. But much has yet to be learned.

    3. Coincidentally, I know one of the authors of that report quite well. I was the QPWS representative on a government committee considering zoonotic diseases. The author was also on the committee.

    4. I think other bloggers are bored to death with this 'flying fox' discussion.

    4. The second link looks like a good handout to horse owners.
  192. Helen - 28, January, 2012 (7:26)

    In all the nursing homes I have had dealings with, there are regular dental checks for all residents (even those without teeth). The staff are also very well trained in dental h as well.

    Teeth are cleaned every day and mouth cleanliness made a matter of priority (as I mentioned once before). It's a furfy to say that this is not true as the same routine is in all hospitals & hursing homes.

    Dr's are also always on call in emergencies & residents are taken to hospital often by ambulance when seriously sick.

    There are also regular "spot" inspections to make sure all this is happening.

    I don't know where your mother was L but you would never have been privy to what was happening only what you "thought" was happening I would say

    I'm out now & not home until tomorrow. Spending some time with friends & having a "Nanna Sleepover" looking forward to it! Cheers everyone...
  193. WEG - 28, January, 2012 (7:24)

    .......the tennis and the screamers, I'll have what they're having....!
  194. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (7:14)

    Lorikeet (cont.)

    6. Flying foxes are only infectious for about a week. The virus does not last very long in the fluids (excreta etc) on the ground. Therefore keeping horses away from underneath flying fox camps is an obvious precaution to observe.

    7. The ultimate solution will probably be a vaccine for horses in areas where there are flying foxes.
  195. Sue Do-Nim - 28, January, 2012 (7:12)

    I wonder who’ll win the Ladies Tennis final today.

    Sharapovaaaaaa or Azarenkaaaaaah ?

    It should be a screamer.of a match.
  196. Lorikeet - 28, January, 2012 (7:08)

    http://www.qldhorsecouncil.com/QHC%20Documents/Notifiable%20Diseases%20Information%20Sheets/Hendra%20Virus.pdf
  197. Lorikeet - 28, January, 2012 (7:04)

    Kay:

    At this point in time, very little is known about the mode of transmission of the Hendra Virus.

    http://www1.abcrc.org.au/uploads/8aee9ac0-1355-4339-b5b6-5772a4ee6cf7/docs/HeV_Review_updated170909.pdf

    You seem to support the pro-animal, anti-human agendas of our increasingly "Green" politicians with your lack of interest in human deaths and potential risks posed to our children's health.

    We have already agreed that it is pro-animal indoctrination of the general populace which is largely to blame for over-populations of problem species (e.g. feeding).

    People are feeding, clothing, resurrecting and defending and spoiling animals, while huge numbers of people die from malnutrition and disease. In our own nation, homelessness and poverty often seem to play second fiddle to pampering animals and increasing their numbers.

    I thought you said you lived at Albany Creek which is not too far from my place.
  198. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (7:02)

    Lorikeet (cont.)

    4. I think it a 'no-brainer' that I think the deaths of several people, all of whom had very close contact with sick horses, is absolutely tragic. To suggest that I think otherwise is insulting;

    5. Hendra virus appears to be carried by asymptomatic flying foxes. Likelihood of transmission to horses is very low, but if infection occurs, the likelihood of death is 75%. Horse to horse, and horse to human transmission has clearly occurred, but no human to human transmission.

    5. Some consideration has been given to the fact that flying foxes may be more likely to excrete Hendra virus if they are stressed - lack of food and habitat - such as might occur after a cyclone for example. Forced relocations might inadvertently exacerbate the problem.
  199. Lorikeet - 28, January, 2012 (6:54)

    Labor and Liberals pass the ball back and forth, with Labor always receiving the hot potato of recession, at which time it is usual for swinging voters to pass the ball to the Left.

    Here in Queensland, an LNP victory at the state election will most likely result in even more asset sales.

    Any attempts by former Brisbane City Council Lord Mayor Campbell Newman to hand constitutional power back to the councils will probably be kneecapped by both Labor and Liberals at the federal level.

    As we know, empowering lower levels of government and small to medium business people is not conducive to Australia being crushed by a global corporate neo-communist regime.

    Both of the major parties have been pushing us in this direction since the end of World War II, with a ramping up since 1975. However this is nothing compared with the heavy footed acceleration which would be inflicted upon us by Greens.
  200. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (6:45)

    Lorikeet

    1. I live in an acreage area on the northern outskirts of Brisbane. I believe I disclosed this info on an earlier blog;

    2. Given that dealing with orchardists/flying foxes/birds/permits was part of my full-time job for many years, the likelihood of your having the same experience as me is remote (given what you have already disclosed about yourself);

    3. "End of story" meant that I have rechecked my facts on Hendra and that is the extent of the known infections - no cattle infections. If you interpret the words as you said, that is your problem.
  201. Lorikeet - 28, January, 2012 (6:45)

    WEG:

    Yes, Anthony Albanese and Senator Carr are certainly trying to apply a tournique to the significant haemorrhage they have created through just about every avenue: trade, manufacturing, unemployment, kneecapping of Aussie farmers.

    However we must remember that John Howard had 11 years in which to extract our nation from excessive control by the UN and to put some thumbscrews on the banking industry. Instead he signed even more of the global agreements which needed to be torn up.

    He also brought in a very punitive system for workers. Work Choices (AKA Worst Choices) was so bad it put the LNP out of government.

    Howard's bad attitude towards women, children and the elderly has deprived the general community of much needed volunteers, setting in place an excellent opportunity for the Labor government to start kicking churches/charities, now that they have to use donations to pay employees.
  202. Lorikeet - 28, January, 2012 (6:31)

    Also using terms such as "End of story" is primarily designed to give the message:

    "Shut up and don't bother to disagree with me."

    This also indicates a very narrow perspective, as does your evaluation that only horses can be affected by the Hendra Virus, especially when due consideration is not being given to how they caught it.

    Being farm animals, I think cattle could be just as vulnerable as horses. Perhaps you could google and post the mode of transmission.

    People have died from Hendra Virus. Or don't you think people are important either?
  203. Lorikeet - 28, January, 2012 (6:29)

    Kay:

    I think you are taking a very narrow view of a widespread problem. Do you mind if I ask where you live?

    You can't make statements such as:

    "And trust me, I have spoken to, and addressed, a lot more orchardists than you have."

    A similar statement about a completely different issue made the difference between whether or not I managed to counsel a senior person out of a very destructive cult.

    As part of his Phobia Indoctrination against exit counsellors, he had been told that I knew nothing about the bible.

    So here was my answer:

    "You only met me 30 minutes ago. How would you know how much I knew about anything?"

    Putdowns won't get you anywhere in a debate.
  204. WEG - 28, January, 2012 (6:27)

    PM Gillard and Labor is at the bottom of the barrel now, in trouble with her press advisor at the centre of the latest political controversy – tent city riots.

    Interesting times, especially now that “Fair Work Australia” has finalised its damning report on corruption within Labor’s ranks – HCU.

    Retraction over her promise to Mr Wilkie over the pokies.

    Mr Albanese’s plagiarised speech to the press club last Friday where he continuously stuck the ‘slipper’ into Tony Abbott, was dumb and laughable.

    Labor and its gangrene coalition will blame all this on Tony Abbott. This is very poor strategy. One single indisputable fact Labor apparently continue to overlook: They’re in government. They’re singularly responsible. Mr Abbott is just a very effective opposition doing his job by highlighting the gross inadequacies of the worst government in Australia’s history.
  205. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (6:05)

    Lorikeet

    When the eucalypts flower here, the flying foxes fly in and feed on the blossoms, thus fertilising them. There are several big trees near my bedroom. I love to lie in bed and listen to their quarreling and general carrying-ons. It is very relaxing. They are doing absolutely no harm. A complete lack of tolerance seems to be the problem with a lot of people.

    And trust me, I have spoken to, and addressed, a lot more orchardists than you have. Most can see the futility in the long term of shooting/culling. As I said, most opt for the long term security of netting. Permits for shooting (such as those I used to issue) provide a short term solution only. They understood the logic of that.
  206. Kay Kelly - 28, January, 2012 (5:55)

    Lorikeet

    I too am getting bored with talking about flying foxes. Unfortunately they get very bad press these days.

    I have checked. There are absolutely no cases of Hendra virus in cattle - just as I thought. All cases of Hendra virus start with very close contact with a sick horse. One dog developed antibodies to Hendra virus without symptoms. End of story.

    Out here (not in suburbia) we don't have over-populations of anything because no one feeds wild animals and hence there is no over-supply of food. People are the problem - they create the problems in the suburbs by feeding wild populations of birds, possums etc - thus creating an over-population that they then complain about. Then they ask the government to start killing the over-population that they have created.
  207. Lorikeet - 27, January, 2012 (21:12)

    Access to a doctor when nursing home residents need one is quite difficult.

    Where my mother lived, there were 2 medical clinics within about 1 to 2 kilometres.

    Her doctor did regular visits once per week, but emergency visits were not available due to pressure of work.

    As we know, there is a shortage of doctors across the community, and many militant Nurse Practitioners and Midwives are looking to take their places.

    Home births are being promoted. It seems the government no longer cares if mothers and babies die because of their cost cutting.
  208. Lorikeet - 27, January, 2012 (21:03)

    Some very large aged care centres have their own dental chair.

    Dental health care is so poor in aged care that the government has been talking about training staff on the premises in dental hygiene.

    In the corporate run aged care centre in which my mother lived for 7 years, the people's teeth rotted out of their heads and broke off due to neglect.

    Since it isn't easy to get most of the residents to a private dentist due to mobility issues, I think all aged care centres should have a small dental surgery and a visiting dentist.

    A medical centre with x-ray & pathology facilities in the complex would also be useful.

    When Bluecare tried to build such an excellent new place at Stafford Heights, residents rose up and started citing environmental issues in their efforts to selfishly protect their own little patch.
  209. Lorikeet - 27, January, 2012 (20:56)

    Yesterday I was speaking with an agent selling units right next to Milton Station (inner city Brisbane). In a block of nearly 300 units, he wanted $378,000 for a 1 bedroom apartment he could not swing a mouse in. Forget about the cat!

    The Body Corporate Fee was $70 a week for the tiniest cubby hole. He said there was no additional charge for the cleaning of communal areas, which I'm sure will prove to be a lie.

    This place has been built in a flood zone. He said all of the apartments were above the flood line, but could not explain how anyone could escape the building if it should become flood bound.

    I told him middle aged and older people could not afford to pay outrageous prices for apartments which shared postage stamp sized pieces of land.

    As for access to the swimming pool and BBQ areas, what are the chances in a block that size?
  210. Lorikeet - 27, January, 2012 (20:49)

    I think residents should be able to grow fruits e.g. pawpaws, bananas, dates etc without having them constantly attacked by over-populations of rampaging bats.

    For 2 weeks, there was a whole flock of them in the neighbour's gum trees, making a hell of a racket. Who knows what they could have given to the 2 toddlers and 1 dog who frequented the backyard.

    Orchardists I have seen certainly didn't share Kay's opinions. Horses are used to round up cattle, so there could easily be transference of Hendra Virus.

    Some residents feed everything e.g. wild birds and possums, due to the love affair with wildlife promoted by Greens.

    In the night, I'm sure rats and mice proliferate on food left out for possums. Here in Brisbane, we have had a plague of rats for over a year.
  211. Bob B - 27, January, 2012 (19:19)

    If that doesn't take your fancy, what about Body Corporate fees rising forcing asset rich income poor seniors out of their homes into more modest accommodation.
  212. Bob B - 27, January, 2012 (19:16)

    A new topic is unlikely this side of the weekend. So, what do people think of the Government arranging for dental checks on a regular basis of our folk in Nursing Homes?

    Doctors certainly make Nursing Home visits but I am yet to hear of a Dentist doing so!
  213. Bob B - 27, January, 2012 (19:12)

    After a full day up in Brisbane, I have had dinner and a catch-up on the blog. Yes, a new topic would help but we have taken off with our (your) own. Good healthy discussion and good info Kay and Helen and other minor contributors, thank you.

    I see 'bats' flying overhead every night at dusk and hear them in my bananas at night as well as other backyards. There is no easy solution but I do support considered culling. Its them or us for the food available and I'm more valuable to me that all the bats in Queensland!! Eradication is most unlikely even if we all went a cull organised for the same night.
  214. Kay Kelly - 27, January, 2012 (17:15)

    Lorikeet

    I believe I said that by clearing forests for farms or housing developments etc, it just makes it more likely that flying foxes will make new camps closer to towns.
  215. Kay Kelly - 27, January, 2012 (17:07)

    Lorikeet (cont.)

    There are guidelines for feeding and watering horses away from beneath flying fox camps. I was not aware that there was any case of Hendra virus in cattle - please give details of the case. All those that have caught Hendra virus have been in very close contact with sick horses.
  216. Kay Kelly - 27, January, 2012 (16:54)

    Lorikeet

    You clearly do not understand the concept of balance. The government does not have an anti-human line! Permits allow farmers to protect their income by shooting a sufficient number of flying foxes to discourage the rest of the group. In the longer term, the only way to do business is to net the orchard. Intelligent, business-minded farmers understand that they need to permanently secure their income in this way. The government assists with finance to achieve this.

    You have observed the same thing with possums. People feed possums, their numbers increase - just as I said with flying foxes. If we wish to grow fruit, we need to ensure it is not available to flying foxes where they are endemic. As for wiping out flying foxes entirely - they are too valuable to the ecosystem to allow that.
  217. Lorikeet - 27, January, 2012 (15:41)

    Kay:

    Do you want more people, farm animals and family pets to die from Hendra Virus?

    If you were working for the government when giving out permits, would you not be pushing the government (pro-animal/anti-human) line?

    I think a landowner should have a right to cull from his property any surplus pests which decimate his crop and his income.

    Someone said a resurrection of the sugarcane industry would make life difficult for flying foxes. I think this was you.

    As we know, beef and dairy cattle are vulnerable to Hendra Virus.

    Bring on the guns!
  218. Lorikeet - 27, January, 2012 (15:32)

    Yes, grog is a big problem in aboriginal communities, just as it is in the general Australian community. Many will lose jobs if the cattle industry keeps going backwards, which is sure to compound the problem.

    Andrew Bartlett (Greens) is an expert on aboriginal issues. More can be gleaned from his blog.

    The aborigines want changes to the Constitution to which others are opposed. They want to become more equal than anyone else.

    On the other side of the coin, there are aboriginal peoples in the Northern Territory who have to live without electricity and running water and very poor access to schools.

    Aborigines shouldn't be treated in any manner that is more equal ... or less equal ... than others, as the case may be.

    My grandchildren's cousin is part aboriginal. Her white father has never applied for extra funds or any extra special privileges for his daughter. To all of us, she is an equal Australian.
  219. John O'Grady - 27, January, 2012 (15:15)

    The black women, who had not been on the grog took to their men with nulla nulla's and they were so drunk that they couldn't resist. There is a moral in there, somewhere! There were about 30 of them and by daylight they had disappeared.
    Noel Pearson once said that he could spell the aboriginalo problem with 4 letters, G R O G !
  220. John O'Grady - 27, January, 2012 (15:10)

    Yesterday's effort wasn't the doing of the Aboriginal community as Warren Mundine and Mick Gooda made clear this morning. A few ratbags decided to stir the pot and very effectively demonstrated that the security arrangements for our National leaders have a few holes in them. Some of my earliest memories and life experiences ( I grew up on my parent's sheep station in far Western NSW where there were black people everywhere) are of the gentleness and simplicity of these nomadic wanderers, until they were influenced by whites. I do clearly remember the enormous change in the situation after a group of men from town (2 hours away) brought them a load of sly grog.They were not permitted alcohol at that time and for good reason. They went stark raving mad, roaring and bellowing threats to 'do the boss (my father) over and burn the homestead. He parked himself on the roof with a shotgun and waited.
  221. Helen - 27, January, 2012 (13:35)

    (3)I know many Indigenous people want this too, especially those in hospitals with broken bones & injuries caused by violence in their own families.

    This is such a taboo subject (& it shouldn't be) & causes great distress for those wanting to have a go & who are successful & not like this rabble.

    I have to go out now so I guess there will be a new subject coming up as the bikes have disappeared into the ether - cheers...

  222. Helen - 27, January, 2012 (13:34)

    (2)Also what about my ancestors who came here. Most were no more than children, they were treated equally as bad & ripped from their country & brought to a strange place from where they couldn't return. One was only thirteen when he arrived & was kept for six months in the London harbour in one of the hulks because there was no-where to send them until Australia became the place. He was homeless & accused of stealing. Life was different then. Nothing is perfect but like everyone else, they have to take responsibility for their actions & move on as Abbott said. Educate their children & lead better lives without drugs & drink & not trash what is given in good faith Contd -

  223. Helen - 27, January, 2012 (13:33)

    Yes Kay. I heard him this morning. From what I heard on ABC radio they were all stired up re something else & one of their trouble makers came with the story all miss quoted which sent everyone on a frenzied attack.

    I am not a supporter of Abbott as everyone on this blog knows but I agree with Kay. In this instance, what he said was reasonable. How long can we who weren't around be punished for something our forebears were guilty of Contd -

  224. Sue Do-Nim - 27, January, 2012 (12:09)

    Ms.Moderator

    NEW TOPIC Please!
  225. Kay Kelly - 27, January, 2012 (11:33)

    Helen

    I too thought we were all supposed to be 'equal'.

    I think the behaviour of the protestors yesterday was appalling - black or white - violence is violence. Unacceptable. Probably aided and abetted by the usual 'rent-a-crowd'.

    No doubt ruined the day for the very worthy award recipients inside the cafe.

    And I don't think Tony Abbott said anything out of court (for once!). Certainly no excuse for that sort of melee.
  226. Helen - 27, January, 2012 (11:15)

    I accept your expertise Kay...

    L I thought we were all supposed to be "equal" here in Australia. What about the police & security people with families at home, they matter too. I personally hope the organisers are arrested & charged & dealt with as Australians & not made an exception with excuses made yet again.

    Shame also on Australia Day!...
  227. Kay Kelly - 27, January, 2012 (10:25)

    Lorikeet:

    Your comment about your better understanding the flying fox issue than I do is just embarrassing! I assure you I do have an in-depth knowledge in this field, from both sides of the fence. That would be obvious to other bloggers. Whence comes your expertise??

    And where exactly have I attacked any other blogger? No, I just gave an informed statement.
  228. Kay Kelly - 27, January, 2012 (10:24)

    Helen, Lorikeet

    I would like a dollar for every meeting/discussion I have had with orchardists about flying foxes! I'd be rich. It was my job!

    Clearly I did help them address their immediate problems by issuing permits, but the facts as I related them in my blog at 8:28 27/1 still remain. Amount of food supply = number of flying foxes. No-interest loans were available to them to allow them to move towards a fully netted orchard and assured income. And most of them went down this path.

    BTW flying foxes aren't a problem for dairy farmers and cane farmers!
  229. Lorikeet - 27, January, 2012 (10:20)

    Perhaps this is the line the government should take:

    "All Australians are equal under the law, with equal entitlements, rights and responsibilities, regardless of their race or ethnic origin. More specifically, no one is more equal than anyone else."

    (Greenies will be out to get both of us.)
  230. Lorikeet - 27, January, 2012 (10:15)

    Good points, Helen, and there is the serious matter of Hendra Virus to consider.

    I live on the north-western outskirts of Brisbane, where we are being overrun by possums, bats and scrub turkeys. Since the heavy rains have come again, the Possum Hotel (garage) is filling up with these "urban adapters".

    One winter, possums did $1000 worth of damage to my home. This is partly caused by neighbours who feed everything. Someone organised his own cull (with air gun) a few years ago.

    The acids in bat poo have taken the paint from my house in a number of places.

    The so-called shortage of birds all arrived at my place years ago, to make short work of my yellow plastic clothesline, which seems to make excellent nesting material.
  231. Helen - 27, January, 2012 (10:10)

    I say it as I see it L & am heartedly sick of those who say the word "racist" for having an opinion. Bad people are bad people regardless of colour & as I said before if they were deemed white & most WERE more white than black, the same message is there for them. They behaved like animals. No excuses accepted here at all - only appolgies for acting like animals where someone could have been killed

    We don't need this kind of behaviour here in Australia at all!
  232. Lorikeet - 27, January, 2012 (10:07)

    I have discussed the animalisation of humans and humanisation of animals before, but I guess some people were too busy being critical to remember what I said.

    It's a big topic, so I'm not going through it all again now, but let us look at one project recently screened on the ABC.

    All of the tourist accommodation has been removed from Penguin Island in order to save the Little Penguin from extinction.

    Lots of money is spent on similar projects, while hundreds of thousands of human beings live below the breadline and, very often, on the streets (Australia).

    The researcher said she had a stockpile of 50,000 knitted body suits to put on penguins which had swum through oil slicks. She receives another 2,500 every week from supporters.

    In Somalia, 20,000 children have died from famine and disease, and plenty more deaths are expected to follow.

  233. Helen - 27, January, 2012 (10:03)

    (2)Residents would not stand for "noise" etc 24/7 & the farmers with their fruit & vegies have a huge poblem to contend with.

    There are some areas in the Cumberland state forest where bats & flying foxes don't seem to annoy people but there are millions of them hanging in the trees.

    The area I am talking about re the farmer is v close to the Galston Gorge area of Sydney & in and around so there is a lot of bush for them to get their food etc.They seem to travel at night & I for one feel sorry for the farmers who are forced to pay out huge amounts because there is nothing done about the problem.

    I guess it's just an opinion but is based on what I have seen first hand & is the other side of the argument...
  234. Helen - 27, January, 2012 (10:03)

    I understand what you are saying Kay but what happens when the orchids are in residential/rual communities ie the Hills area in Sydney. The area in the North W of Sydney & grow stone fruit & vegies. My son worked on one farm when he was still at school & used to tell us about the problem.

    It is also difficult because it was next to a small school & in the area there is a small school in all the little areas that are very old & historical. The orchids have been there for generations & the people on 5 acre blocks not nearly as long - Contd

  235. Lorikeet - 27, January, 2012 (9:58)

    Helen:

    It is rude to tell other people to "belt up" on a blog. Instead please re-read what you wrote so you can easily identify the racist content.

    I think we both understand the issues relating to Flying Foxes better than Kay does, even if she has amassed a single devotee.

    I suggest people get out and talk with cane farmers, dairy farmers and orchardists to get a first hand opinion from those with greater expertise.

    Maybe when you have had to stop a dairy farmer who has lost both his land and his wife from committing suicide, you might stop the constant attacks on other bloggers.
  236. Kay Kelly - 27, January, 2012 (9:50)

    Lorikeet

    You still haven't explained what "the humanisation of animals, and the animalisation of humans" means (see my previous request for clarification at 5:36 27/1). This was, according to you, supported by the "anti-gun lobby"!

    Once again, I request that you please explain!


    I'm against gun proliferation, so I'd like to know what this practice is that I supposedly support.
  237. Sue Do-Nim - 27, January, 2012 (8:51)

    Kay:
    Your former position with QPWS makes you eminently qualified to proffer an informed opinion on this matter…Thanks.

    L.Keet:

    Enjoying cucumber and watercress sandwiches and an intimate cup of tea with Mad Katter might make you his groupie however,

    you have bitten off more than you can chew by debating Kay K. on this issue .You’re simply out of your depth.
  238. Kay Kelly - 27, January, 2012 (8:28)

    Helen, Lorikeet:

    A general comment about culling certain animals that we may see as a problem:

    1. Animal numbers always reflect the food supply. Nature is tough. Where the food supply is less than required by the population (of any animal, including human beings) starvation reduces their numbers. Where the food supply increases, animals breed more rapidly to take advantage of that. It normally cycles.

    2. Shooting flying foxes without decreasing the food supply will merely encourage them to breed more.

    3. Reducing the excess food supply (fruit) is the only answer in the long term. And that means netting orchards.
  239. Kay Kelly - 27, January, 2012 (8:06)

    Helen

    When I was the QPWS Wildlife Manager, I issued many permits allowing farmers to shoot certain numbers of flying foxes. The idea was to shoot some occasionally to deter flying foxes from unduly damaging income-producing crops. There are also other methods available other than actually shooting them, including using BirdFrite, noise cannons etc. Many orchards up here are netted - it is just part of the cost of production. The biggest problem occurs in far northern Qld where, if lychee crops are netted, the nets are completely destroyed in the frequent cyclones.
  240. Kay Kelly - 27, January, 2012 (7:51)

    Lorikeet (cont.)

    It is a complete fallacy that "flying foxes are in plague proportions". It might seem like that, but only because the flying foxes have been driven out of their usual camp sites in the bush to groups of trees closer to town where they are more obvious. Their numbers in fact have been falling, particularly in the far north due to Cyclone Yasi.

    As for Hendra virus - there are guidelines about not feeding/watering horses under trees where flying foxes are camping.

    It is just common sense that if sugar cane production needs to be ramped up to produce ethanol, farmers will naturally want to increase their profits by clearing more land and planting with sugar. It would not take long for all existing cane fields to be fully used up. I'm thinking ahead here.
  241. Kay Kelly - 27, January, 2012 (7:41)

    Lorikeet

    1. No, I haven't had dinner with Bob Katter. But so what - I wouldn't want to. Having dinner with him hardly changes facts.

    2. Good.

    3. Fine. But if Katter mandates ethanol fuel on 25 March, that doesn't help us!

    4. My comments included developing ethanol-friendly engines and making ethanol from waste (the future).

    5. Farmers already have guns for feral animal control. The right to defend your home against violent burglars etc is a legal issue, plus most break-ins occur in cities/towns. More guns = more gun-related deaths. Just like it is in the USA.
  242. Helen - 27, January, 2012 (7:38)

    There is NO excuse for what happened yesterday & it has nothing to do with "Racial hatred" & I take exception to the inference made.

    I as an Australian I will speak up and say what I think. If I saw a white person do the same, I would feel no different.

    I have friends who are aboriginal & I know they would all be ashamed of what happened yesterday. One in particular has spent a life time helping his people & would never do such a thing. It's sets their cause back by a zillion years & makes no sense at all - so belt up L!
  243. Helen - 27, January, 2012 (7:32)

    I also heard about all the rain falling up north. I am thinking of everyone who is affected. I have rels up north as well. Let's hope the rain travels out to sea sooner rather than later.

    We are getting rain here too but nothing like what is happening up north.

    As for flying foxes. We have millions of them down here & they cause great distress for fruit growers. The farmers have to pay for costly netting & are not allowed to cul. I don't agree with this even though I understand the argument that they are needed. They are breeding more like the kangaroos because of the easy feeding compared to the old days. It's true their natural homes are being destroyed. I do think culling should be allowed as they also pass on disease to humans as well in built up areas and we must also think about this issue...
  244. Lorikeet - 27, January, 2012 (7:27)

    There are certainly issues relating to aboriginal communities and ideology which need addressing, but pushing racial hatred on blogs is not the solution.

    There are valid positive and negative sides to the aboriginal argument.

    When the news regarding Abbott/Gillard first broke, at first I wondered if they might have been having more trouble with the Occupy Movement campaigning against Corporate Greed. Over time, I feel certain they will become more numerous and vocal.
  245. Helen - 27, January, 2012 (7:23)

    (2)No-one should have to subject themself to something such as this no matter who they are but especially the leader of our C/Try who got caught up in it by accident.

    I don't support Abbott but he is entitled to the same respect as any other citizen

    The tent that has been there for so long is a filthy "eyesore" & should be removed in my opinion. Why is it that there are those who take the golden egg with one hand from the day they are born & still demand more. I hope other members of their community are equally ashamed & will deal with these creeps!

    My whinge for today...
  246. Lorikeet - 27, January, 2012 (7:23)

    As we already know, flying foxes are in plague proportions and continue to spread the deadly Hendra Virus to farm animals, people and pets.

    If some people spoke with Bob Katter, they would know our sugarcane industry has been shot to hell by foreign imports, with many cane farmers and their families finishing up in graveyards due to suicide.

    Reviving that industry would reduce pollution, boost our economy and cut the length of dole queues. It would revive the use of abandoned canefields, and not necessarily increase the number.

    A lot of sugar is imported from countries such as Thailand and Brazil, along with ethanol.
  247. Helen - 27, January, 2012 (7:23)

    Just watched the news! What a disgrace in Canberra. I heard some dope whose name I didn't catch making excuses for the violence yesterday. He is upset because a few of the rebels got hurt. He also said that most of those responsible "were not black" "They had fair skin"!!

    Isn't it strange, most aboriginals are like this anyway & don't mind taking all the handouts that they are offered. Only when they are brought to task is it an issue where a thimble full of indigenous blood makes a difference between white & black here in Australia.

    Those responsible are a disgrace to any race of people & certainly brought shame on those good & genuine representatives who in most cases wouldn't be part of such a fray anyway - contd

  248. Lorikeet - 27, January, 2012 (7:15)

    5. As we all know, burglars and other criminals currently have more rights than a person defending his/her own home. While I don't like guns very much, we don't need to have them finish up primarily in the hands of criminals. As I stated before, farmers and graziers have legitimate needs for guns and vermin control. Ignoring their needs has already led to higher prices at the checkouts.
  249. Lorikeet - 27, January, 2012 (7:14)

    My comments take account of the following:

    1. I have had dinner with Bob Katter and heard an entire speech at a conference on these matters...also some email contact. Have you?

    2. I have made many suggestions for the recycling of discarded plant food material for uses such as animal fodder and alternative fuels ... also the return of Biochar (backyard prunings) to the soil.

    3. New types of cars and other machinery are on the drawing board, along with new types of ethanol fuels.

    4. Negative comments here relate to the current status quo, and are not forward thinking.

    (cont)

  250. Bo B - 27, January, 2012 (6:44)

    Kay Kelly

    On the ethanol issue - here here. Conversion to ethanol based fuels will take some serious thinking and implememtation planning if its to work as we are being told. Currently, its expensive, potentially dangerous to machinery (including cars) that has not been designed specifically for its use and environmentally damaging to produce.

    We have heavy rain again with 46 mm already this morning. I heard one place in SEQld (missed the name) had 90 mm in one hour. Bribie Is had 110 mm in two hours. Off now to Brisbane on the train for an all day meeting. Hope there are no line closures - have to detour on my drive to the station though!!
  251. Kay Kelly - 27, January, 2012 (6:03)

    Lorikeet (cont.)

    Re biofuels. If waste products could be used to produce biofuels, then that could be a good solution. But ethanol is not as efficient a fuel as petrol - hence you use more. The cost of production would have to be significantly reduced to make up for this. Plus, car engines would have to be made 'ethanol proof'.

    And if Katter's ethanol plan were to be a success as far as sugar farmers are concerned, they would start wholesale land clearing to produce even more sugar. And that would be very environmentally damaging. For starters, flying foxes would have even fewer places to roost!
  252. Kay Kelly - 27, January, 2012 (5:53)

    Lorikeet (cont.)

    Re ethanol fuel being "environmentally clean".

    Ethanol production around the world has driven land clearing (and burning) thus contributing greenhouse gases to the atmosphere. And using existing cropping land competes with using that land for food production, thus creating a need for even more land clearances to feed the world's growing populations. As long as the starting material for ethanol production is farmland, biofuels are bad for the planet.
  253. Kay Kelly - 27, January, 2012 (5:36)

    Lorikeet (cont.)

    As for flying foxes, possums and brush turkeys - none of these have reached 'plague proportions'! In fact, climatic events like Cyclone Yasi had a very detrimental effect on flying fox numbers. Flying foxes are essential to the ecosystem as they are responsible for the fertilisation of many rainforest plants and all eucalypts. They are only appearing near towns because their normal roosting sites are being progressively cleared by farmers, developers etc. No, these are the statements of someone who is completely ignorant of the facts and is pandering to minority but vocal public sentiment. Town camps of flying foxes can be addressed without shooting!

    And what on earth do you mean by your third point?? - "the humanisation of animals, and the animaliastion of humans". Please explain!
  254. Kay Kelly - 27, January, 2012 (5:32)

    Lorikeet

    Clearly you are a Katter supporter, and I appreciate his support for Australian farmers. However, many of views are very ill-informed.

    Using sugar for ethanol production would be a boost for the sugar farmers - fine. But to MANDATE ethanol in all petrol would prove very detrimental to most vehicles, and would significantly add to the cost of petrol because of the inefficiency of the fuel. I'd be surprised if you wanted to see such an impost on all Queenslanders. It would not be a problem if the use of ethanol fuel was completely voluntary.

    As for guns - I agree with rmcn. Sounds like the American situation! A gun in every home! No thanks - crazy! No one begrudges a farmer a gun for shooting feral animals, putting down injured animals etc. But to defend his home? Ridiculous!
  255. rmcn - 26, January, 2012 (21:00)

    Lorikeet! You are quite entitled to admire Bob Katter, but I fear you will be in the minority. To sensible people he comes across as being a bit of a ratbag. One of those politicians you see in the movies about steamy goings on in the deep south of the USA! But it does concern me - You say the anti gun lobby is against people having guns to protect themselves in their own home. Do you feel you need a gun to protect yourself?!! God forbid we become like the USA where people are shot every few seconds. Some of your statements astound me.....
  256. Lorikeet - 26, January, 2012 (20:34)

    That would be a poor decision. I can't think of any party which would preference Katter's Australian Party last anyway.

    The ethanol currently being used is imported from a third world nation.

    Setting up an ethanol industry in North Queensland (Katter territory) would give work back to our sugarcane farmers and produce a better, Australian made product, which is environmentally clean. Mass production would reduce costs.

    Having dinner with Bob Katter and a good chat with him revealed a very pro-Australian politician, which is something to be celebrated (not lampooned) on Australia Day.

    Bob Katter comes from the bush where access to guns is essential.

    The anti-gun lobby supports:

    1. a man not being able to defend himself in his own home.

    2. the proliferation of Hendra Virus carrying bats, possums and scrub turkeys - all of which have reached plague proportions.

    3. the humanisation of animals, and animalisation of humans.

    It's another Green agenda.

  257. Kay Kelly - 26, January, 2012 (17:20)

    I might have major concerns about the LNP's environmental credentials, but Katter, with his push for an open slather on hunting, shooting and fishing, would be even more horrific!

    I think I'll vote for whoever puts the Katter Party last.
  258. Kay Kelly - 26, January, 2012 (15:47)

    (cont.)

    I have heard it has proved to be so unpopular with motorists that Ethanol bowsers were being phased out at most service stations - generally being replaced with far more cost-effective diesel fuel. One of our vehicles is a turbo diesel (Kia Sorento) and it is brilliant! - around 7 litres/100 km.

    May heaven save us (and our cars) from the Katter Party!

    I will definitely vote in a way as to minimise any preference leak towards the Katter Party.
  259. Kay Kelly - 26, January, 2012 (15:45)

    Re March 24 Qld State election:

    I sure hope the mad Katter doesn't win the balance of power or something even more influential. He is talking about mandating ethanol in all fuel on Day 1! I thought that crazy idea had died a natural death with Beattie. It can badly damage engines (mechanics advise against using it because it absorbs a lot of water, especially in high humidity), plus is so inefficient (you need 25% more fuel for E85) that it works out to be far more expensive (it would have to be 25% less expensive, which it isn't!)!
  260. Helen - 26, January, 2012 (14:21)

    Typos! Recognise not reconise

    Reflection not relection

    Oops!
  261. marie.scoullar - 26, January, 2012 (11:31)

    A scheme of compulsory registration and third party insurance for bicycles ridden in public places similar to that for cars provides protection for cyclists against injuryand or theft. Hopefully such a scheme could also provide funding for increasing bike specific lanes on roads.
  262. Lorikeet - 26, January, 2012 (9:16)

    Yes, Happy Australia Day.

    It's sad to see people in the media saying that people who put Aussie flags on their cars are racist.

    One of my neighbours has a blue flag with a white cross in the middle, hanging over his front balcony today.

    Interestingly enough, there are moves afoot to send safe childbirth backwards in this country. When voting, please be careful of Independents who are militant midwives and nurse practitioners who wish to take over from doctors, and push preferences to the Greens.

    Home births are part of a Green peasant agenda. When our women have children, I believe they need to be in a hospital where there are both midwives and obstetricians available, along with speedy access to operating theatres and life support systems.
  263. Helen - 26, January, 2012 (8:04)

    (3) Many lost their own lives from childbirth in wilderness areas devoid of doctors to help them.

    We are now a multicultural society so I hope those who don't know a lot about OUR history will take the time to learn & not say we don't have any as I have been told at times.

    Anyway, have a great day everyone. I will make it a day of relection & remember the good times when my Mum & Dad were still alive & the fun in a not so well off family doing "kid stuff" without computers, TV & at my nans & uncles places "power" - Advance Australia fair!!
  264. Helen - 26, January, 2012 (7:56)

    (2)There were mistakes made that affected both black & white in the past. Many white settlers were brought here when their only crime was being poor & to supply wives or workers to free settlers who came after the first fleet. Not everyone was a true criminal.

    With all the suffering put aside, many good things have been achieved & I for one am a very proud Aussie. I have been to many other countries of the world over a long time now & still think Australia is a great place to come home to.

    I love our flag as it represents all those young men (white & black) who fought, lived & died in all the wars along the way. It also represents all the early settlers who paved the way with infrastructure in dreadful conditions & women folk who kept farms going on their own & who lost so many children from disease - contd
  265. Helen - 26, January, 2012 (7:54)

    HAPPY AUSTRALIA DAY EVERYONE!! I think it is a day of reflection & a good time to look back at our history.

    The settling here of the Britts is not always reconised as a good thing & even looked on as an invasion by those who were already here.

    The white settlers paved the way in a very harsh C/try to give us the country we see today. Even the "native" Aussies would have to agree with that. Many have benefited from the good things that have been achieved - contd

  266. Lesley Porter - 25, January, 2012 (21:39)

    I think that people in cars and people riding bikes ALL should obey the road rules and take care while on the road. No amount of regulation or licencing can make people more safety aware. so just obey the road rules and take care on the roads. slow down and keep watch.
  267. Lorikeet - 25, January, 2012 (21:27)

    I once provided a list of all of the methods being used to limit our access to red meat and dairy products, but the usual crowd did nothing but poo-poo it.

    Some graziers are either switching to wheat or dividing their interests between meat and wheat, in order to hedge their bets.

    To my knowledge, the number of abattoirs in Australia have been very greatly reduced, and they would take some time to set up again.

    Slaughtering animals here keeps Australians in work and negates any possible mistreatment of animals.

    In Western Australia, a lot of the people responsible for the Live Animal Trade to the Middle East are Muslims.
  268. Lorikeet - 25, January, 2012 (21:23)

    Senator John Madigan has looked into the live cattle trade and found that the animals are treated quite well.

    Extremists from Animals Australia are responsible for a great deal of unwarranted scaremongering.

    I think Bob Katter had one common sense solution, which was to provide Indonesian abattoirs with stunning equipment.

    To my knowledge, Indonesians eat a lot of their meat fresh due to lack of refrigeration.
    The last I heard was that Indonesian cattle herd availability has reached a point where Australian cattle are becoming less in demand.

    But the main agenda of the Live Export Trade debacle was to aid in the wiping out of the livestock industries altogether, which is a Greens agenda, along with damage to the Australian economy.

    This is supported by the Low Carbon Diet and latest guidelines of the National Heart Foundation.
  269. Robyn - 25, January, 2012 (20:04)

    Bob B,

    I'm glad you did mention freezers. I really question this argument as the basis for maintaining a live cattle trade. I'm not sure that this argument is put forward by the government but I really can't understand why they don't stop this cruel trading because it is NOT necessary. It's probably got something to do with the bucks farmers earn and would lose if not in place because we lack the slaughterhouse facilities to do otherwise at the moment. We need more facilities and humane killing practices that are able to be in keeping with Muslim requirements. I wonder, has anything changed since that horrific Four Corners program?
  270. Bob B - 25, January, 2012 (19:26)

    Robyn

    I mentioned freezers as some have mentioned this as an impediment. I have not been to Indonesia other than Bali though I have been in many other SEAsian countries. I could understand it to be a problem. Nice that its not because it removes another 'reason' for not being proactive. I'm totally fed up with our achieve nothing for Australia government.
  271. Robyn - 25, January, 2012 (19:25)

    On this eve of Australia day my main point is that the people of a mature nation will question themselves - their attitudes and views of self in the world - at depth - rather than wave flags to chants of Oz grandiosity, which I do believe is pervaded by a general sense of regional superiority. Maybe you don't feel this way but I think many do.
  272. Sue Do-Nim - 25, January, 2012 (19:14)

    New Zealand “is almost our 6th state”.

    Which one of ours is earmarked for deletion?

    Vic. W.A. S.A. N.S.W. Tas or Qld.
  273. Robyn - 25, January, 2012 (19:11)

    WEG,

    I interrupted my final comment to have dinner and posted it before I read yours. Your third paragraph is the only one of interest to me since the first merely describes your past experience and the other two do not relate to anything I am saying.

    I question your your third paragraph in that I am not at all sure their power problems are any worse than ours and all of the food I have eaten in Asia appears to be no less fresh than ours. When on the islands, fish and seafoods are locally caught and are very fresh. The worst poverty I have seen has been in India and much of that can be attributed to the hierarchical caste situation.
  274. Robyn - 25, January, 2012 (18:54)

    Our material standards may differ and some visiting these countries may then think they are poor and bereft. There was a time when our material standards were not as high as today and were we not happy? When I was a kid we considered kids who wore shoes as soft. All kids in my neighbourhood went barefoot. The only shoes I owned were my school shoes. I liked it that way! We did not have the array of clothes and toys that kids have today. Heaters were fired with wood or coal. All of the mattresses in my grandmother's house were kapok and lumpy but we kids loved them. Material standards are not so significant, providing people have a roof over their heads and the basics, but we are inclined to think that people who don't live by our material standards today suffer, and that we are somehow superior for having what we have.
  275. WEG - 25, January, 2012 (18:35)

    Robyn, interesting views on Australian culture and our NZ & Asian relations. Not sure if I agree with you. I’ve worked / lived in NZ for some years, and also had dealings / negotiations with numerous Chinese / Thai delegations over my working life. I’ve never considered them in the way you’ve described.

    The racial tag is just plain rubbish. The way a few ethnic groups behave within Australia and threaten our culture / laws is more to the point.

    I’ve also travelled in Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore and what struck me is the extreme divide between the well off and poverty. Poverty reigns. Power blackouts were daily events. So much for the usefulness of freezers. The quality of their food is a real problem.

    NZ are economically ‘linked’ to Australian because of bi-lateral agreements. One could say they’re almost our 6th State.
  276. Robyn - 25, January, 2012 (17:48)

    On Australia Day we should think about how dumb we are as well as how great we are. Our view of the world can be distorted by our isolation. I love my own country dearly but I think we have a lot to learn. We can be smug as a nation at times because we think we live well as sophisticates in a poor region. I think the view that we are kin with New Zealanders and above our Asian neighbours persists, has racial roots and is to our detriment as a nation.
  277. Robyn - 25, January, 2012 (17:26)

    In 2010 I visited a fairly non-descript (not big in tourist circuits)island in Indonesia and they had freezers everywhere. I don't think the live cattle trade to Indonesia is necessary. I also visited a very tiny little Island off the coast of Malaysia and they had freezers everywhere. In Australia we can think that parts of the world are more primitive than they are. Why do we do this?
  278. Bob B - 25, January, 2012 (16:36)

    Rather than mamby pamby statements about workers we need government to get serious. We could start with things like rebuilding the cattle industry we had by growing our own and processing it in Australia. If Indonesia can do with NZ processed meat when we banned live export, then they can take ours. Maybe we provide the initial freezers and leave them to it.

    Oranges. Why do we import nearly all our orange juice and then bury our own home produced oranges. We need someone to sow the seeds and make it happen. Supermarkets are destroying us with their must have the cheapest available worldwide. Government can and should be leading the way.

    There are many more examples.
  279. Lorikeet - 25, January, 2012 (16:10)

    This country needs more politicians who are willing to create jobs, revive manufacturing industries and insist that Australian food is processed in Australian factories.

    Today I saw Senator Carr desperately trying to convince us that Labor is actually interested in Australian workers, just as hundreds more workers are losing their jobs in car manufacturing.
  280. Lorikeet - 25, January, 2012 (16:08)

    Where I live, the electorate is screaming about rates that are too high, so I have been doing my best to ensure the people know that the councils are not to blame for rate increases.

    However, it remains to be seen if Anna is telling us the truth. She said she isn't going to see the governor until 19 February, which gives her 3.5 weeks to change her mind.

    I think her main aim is to land responsibility for the excessive flooding of Brisbane on somebody else. If all else fails, she still has the option of making the councils go to election first, as they are supposed to be held by 31 March.

    The calling of a state election doesn't become mandatory until 21 April.
  281. Robyn - 25, January, 2012 (16:03)

    Oh sweet relief! I worry no longer.
  282. Lorikeet - 25, January, 2012 (16:01)

    Nationals are complaining about Anna Bligh delaying elections, but I know my local councillor will be happy for the state government to go first, so they can take the blame for all of their own misdeeds and lies.

    Councils should not bear the brunt of the electorate's dissatisfaction with bad decisions made at either state or federal levels (e.g. Carbon Tax).

    For those who aren't aware, Bob Hawke took constitutional power away from councils in 1984, after previous attempts by Gough Whitlam failed.

    State governments have forced amalgamations onto councils against their will, reduced their budget and awarded a large chunk of their income to Unitywater (sewerage/water).
  283. Robyn - 25, January, 2012 (15:57)

    John O'Grady,

    I wonder if the advice in your deleted blog was taken? Things are very quiet in one neck of the woods - I am beginning to get worried. Can one still buy chloroform over the counter?

    I wonder if this comment will be deleted?
  284. Kay Kelly - 25, January, 2012 (15:20)

    Sue Do-Nim

    Good one! Sounds like a good solution!
  285. Sue Do-Nim - 25, January, 2012 (15:09)

    Kay K:

    Don't stress about who to vote for in the

    upcoming Qld. election.

    Vote Labor.

    It'll have the same result as voting

    informal but you won't feel as guilty.
  286. WEG - 25, January, 2012 (14:17)

    Just jumped off the bike – too wet. Great weather for ducks.

    Telstra just released their HTC Velocity 4G network and supplier phones that has download speed up to 40 Mbps, all wirelessly. Now that’s almost 2 times as good as my fixed broadband line. Whilst access is limited to major centres at this point in time, if 4G is unavailable, you still get 3G automatically.

    Other phone suppliers to follow a similar strategy. Vodaphone are spending $1B to upgrade their wireless system (about time though).

    I’m confused. It seems the $50B NBN strategic investment in optical fibre was the way to go. Is NBN stumped before it’s gets started?

    Is there a Senior tech head out there that can explain this to me please?
  287. WEG - 25, January, 2012 (14:14)

    Thks for the poem Robyn. I like rockmelon better. Left wing is my preference as well rather than communism.
  288. Rob - 25, January, 2012 (13:45)

    No licence for cyclists. Register the bike instead. Police cars be fitted with a bike rack. Any cyclist breaking the law, including riding without a helmet, has their bike immediately confiscated until they (or their parents) pay a fine. The registration fee could be used to insure the cyclist for CTP and third party property insurance.
  289. John O'Grady - 25, January, 2012 (13:02)

    I also had a most inocous suggestion knocked off, yesterday. I made simple reference to the possible therapeutic and calming benefits to some of us who might consider taking a little canary chloroform!

    What a bummer!
  290. Robyn - 25, January, 2012 (12:40)

    WEG, here is a poem for you.

    When feeling lost in inky blue,
    Here is a tip on what to do.
    Indulge yourself with the red-green hue
    of watermelon, it will comfort you.

    (Based on personal experience.)

    Watermelon is not a bad descriptor. However you do exaggerate. "Left-wing" is not "communism".
  291. Robyn - 25, January, 2012 (11:54)

    Kay,

    That is lovely news about your daughter. Hope all goes well for her and that she has an easy baby who sleeps well. I would have gone it alone too if I hadn't met the right guy.

    There was no secret code in my "vote pink". It just seemed like a nice safe colour to pick since I thought we weren't supposed to mention the other colours and I didn't want to influence you. However, if I am to psychoanalyse myself I guess it does oppose blue.

  292. WEG - 25, January, 2012 (11:04)

    All those colour codes has confused me as well Kay. Pink, green, red!!

    All I can suggest is that the reference may be code to to vote for the watermelon group – green on the outside, red on the inside. You should try the pip-less variety as well.

    Not sure what pink represents though.
  293. Kay Kelly - 25, January, 2012 (10:51)

    Robyn

    Sorry - meant 20 February.
  294. Kay Kelly - 25, January, 2012 (10:49)

    Robyn

    I'm glad the election won't be til 24 March. At least I won't have to do a postal vote.

    On 22 February I will be going down to Sydney to support my daughter who is about to become a mother for the first time at age 43. Baby is due early March. She is one of those modern women (not all that unusual these days) who has decided she wants a baby but hasn't met Mr Right yet. So I will be her support person and be at the ready to drive her to hospital. Am also brushing up on how to deliver a baby! I just hope all goes well, and that bub is healthy. I think she will find being a single mum quite a challenge!
  295. Kay Kelly - 25, January, 2012 (10:41)

    Robyn

    Yes, my kids (who all live in NSW) tell me that the Qld Labor government is not a patch on the previous NSW Labor government, with regard to corruption in particular.

    But the Qld government is bad enough!
  296. Kay Kelly - 25, January, 2012 (10:36)

    Robyn

    Not trying to be provocative here but I am truly at a loss as to who to vote for - is pink a combination of green and red? I like green, but red is not one of my favourite colours, despite my red upbringing.

    Please explain. Maybe I'm too obtuse to understand what you mean.
  297. Robyn - 25, January, 2012 (10:30)

    Kay,

    Having faced a similar dilemma in NSW (except I think our state Labor govt was worse than yours) I solved the problem by voting for another colour entirely. Vote pink! Actually, I am fairly ignorant about QLD state politics.
  298. Kay Kelly - 25, January, 2012 (10:11)

    Robyn

    I have a real dilemma with regard to the forthcoming State election.

    The Bligh (and Beattie) Labor governments have not been very good - changing the rules of Parliament to protect a Minister who has since been jailed for corruption; massive expenditure and loss of money on the ridiculous Traveston Dam; several Qld Health fiascos including the jailing of a rogue surgeon it sought to protect, then hustle out of the country etc etc. And apart from Bligh, who is a reasonable performer, and maybe Andrew Fraser, an up-and-coming politician but maybe a poor Treasurer, the rest of the government aren't much chop!

    On the other hand, the LNP doesn't impress. I am very turned off by their very poor environmental policies.

    So what to do?
  299. Kay Kelly - 25, January, 2012 (9:59)

    Robyn

    With Lorikeet around we are bound to be copping lots of references to DLP policy on every topic. But I just thought the two blogs that I mentioned from the previous blog were completely over the top! I have complained about them several times now, but they stubbornly remain! I just don't think it reflects well on the NSA to allow these to remain whilst other lighter, tongue-in-cheek poems etc are deleted so quickly.
  300. Robyn - 25, January, 2012 (9:50)

    March 24? Oh no! Now we are in for it. Two whole months of anti Bligh diatribe.

    Kay,
    I had my last comment instantly deleted too and I didn't think it was that bad - just a few tongue in cheek words. Really can't understand why yours was deleted. Perhaps our moderator is in a bad mood today?

    I also can't stand DLP campaigning on the blog and really don't know why it survives considering the rules about overt party political messages. Ok if it is just the odd comment or two but when it is so consistent it becomes campaigning.
  301. Bob B - 25, January, 2012 (9:15)

    Not talking behind her back as she can read what I write.

    Have you noticed the pure white pure way she 'talks' now - part of the victim approach I think. Quite the opposite to the vitriolic slap em down stuff.

    I too have a problem with having blatant DLP flavoured missives sprayed about.

    March 24 is the day Queensland recovers. The election has been called.
  302. Bob B - 25, January, 2012 (9:08)

    Quick update on the rain - 208 mm in the gauge in the 0900 to 0900 band. We are wet, how else to you say it. My only problem has been some pathway drains clogging with leaves etc. It just causes up to half inch of water on the driveway - all gone now as its easy to clear.
  303. Kay Kelly - 25, January, 2012 (9:07)

    Helen

    Thank you for replying to my deleted blog.

    It seems to be OK to promote the DLP - but stay out of other areas! No green or orange or red or blue!
  304. Kay Kelly - 25, January, 2012 (8:50)

    Helen and others

    I just had a posting of mine almost instantly deleted!

    It was critical of the Moderator allowing blatant party-political DLP comments to remain on the blog (Lorikeet 8:23 and 8:28 18/1), but at the same time deleting Helen's poem!

    Make what you want of that! Curiouser and curiouser!
  305. Helen - 25, January, 2012 (8:48)

    I'm not sure Kay! There are a number of "Keets" on this blog so I'm not sure who the culprit was. Perhaps the colour red was a problem. Perhaps it was soo bad it had to go.
    Thanks for the kind words & I will follow your advice & keep our most Aussie tradition going & practise hard to gain perfection. Do you think Orange or green would have been a better colour to use? They sound a bit religious to me. Would not like to upset anyone..

    Robyn - when I come home I'll consult my science book re contraception & see what it says (if thoughts passed their minds that far back)...
  306. Robyn - 25, January, 2012 (8:06)

    What a good idea to tax the bean producers. Yes, let's do it! This will really throw the good SuperMadigan into a spin.
  307. Bob B - 25, January, 2012 (8:03)

    Robyn

    Accesss to the airport is still open and there are a number of alternatives to get there, some take longer to drive. The M1 is close to flooding at Mudgereeba apparently and I have not seen that before.

    I'm more concerned about her being diverted to brisbane due to low cloud. Coolangatta airport has poor navaids and pilots require 400m visibility to land. Otherwise she is off to Brisbane whilst we await at Coolangatta. Then rather than a bus from airport to airport she can catch the train to the local station where I also have a number of alternatives for access.

    Its wet and we have exceeded the highest daily rainfall since moving here in 2002 - that was 150mm and its already over 160mm from observation at a distance and we have an hour to go!

    'adumbrate' is the word of the day and probably the week.
  308. Bob B - 25, January, 2012 (7:45)

    Robyn

    Happy Feet 2 was an easy one for kids. My supersensitive grandson 'rode' through the one possible scary bit very well.

    It has my recommendation for littlies. There were two dozen or so littlies in the audience and only the baby cried - and that wasn't caused by the movie.

    Queensland kids are back at scholl though a number are closed today due to weather.
  309. Helen - 25, January, 2012 (7:39)

    Kay - Sadly "boo hoo" yes. A very original piece on Communism. A dedication to the Keet family. Not a nasty word passed my keyboard either!

    Robyn - I haven't got much time today as I have to go out but I loved the excerpt. I loved the word "adumbrate". Had to look it up. It means "to give a faint shadow of" -

    I hope everyone is OK up north with the wet. I heard two ladies are missing, washed away near the glass mtns.

    WEG - What next! Good one! They might have to put a tax on Baked Beans and all those other beanie things as well (a special F**t tax)...
  310. Robyn - 25, January, 2012 (7:33)

    In the latter part of it she is talking about vaccination which was relatively new. Quite surprising that scientists were working on developing a contraceptive pill back in 1928!
  311. Kay Kelly - 25, January, 2012 (7:32)

    Back to the cycling issue:

    I would just like to reiterate the difference between REGISTERING bicycles, and LICENSING the riders (cyclists).

    I still think REGISTERING the bicycles of all adult (over 18) cyclists - at minimal cost - would be very useful in allowing miscreant cyclists to be identified (from a small 'number plate'). And I think it is clear from the majority of blogs here that cyclist behaviour often leaves a lot to be desired. Miscreant motorists can easily be identified - why not cyclists? It might help improve the behaviour of cyclists, and consequently, motorists.

    As for licensing the actual adult riders (cyclists), then my suggestion is that such a move would be very cumbersome, expensive, off-putting and completely unnecessary. Most of them are licensed car or motor bike riders anyhow. How they handle a car or motor bike is much more important, and all road users must obey the same road rules anyhow.
  312. Robyn - 25, January, 2012 (7:26)

    "So that when such injections are available the women who begin to use them will be subjecting themselves to an experiment which may be personally disastrous, and still more disastrous for their future children if they have any. Although modern scientific medicine has much increased the use of injections (in general) there are many medical men who consider that far from health being thus achieved, humanity as a whole has suffered grievous injury as a result of the increasing habit of injecting, and if the very sources of life are to be tampered with in this way still worse may follow."
  313. Kay Kelly - 25, January, 2012 (7:18)

    WEG

    I enjoyed your humorous musings about the CO2 emissions of cyclists. Makes as much sense as taxing cows!
  314. Robyn - 25, January, 2012 (7:17)

    Helen,

    In my 1928 book on contraception the author talks about how scientists are working on developing a contraceptive pill or injection. She was dead set against it stating:

    "Such scientists are not capable when it really comes to the actual point, of any such helpful performance, nor of producing the "scientific" results which are vaguely adumbrated so that women are led to desire them and are then disappointed.
    When such injections do become available, if they ever do, consider for a moment what their use must involve. They can only act by interfering with menstruation and ovulation, the most fundamental of all women's physiological processes, and what may be the reverberations on her general health and her nervous system only experience can show." (tbc)
  315. Robyn - 25, January, 2012 (6:56)

    Bob B,

    Did you see "Happy Feet 2"? If so, anything scary in it?

    Wondering about the weather up your way and your daughter flying in today. Full on rain here - could get floods if it keeps up.
  316. Bob B - 25, January, 2012 (6:34)

    I've just seen The Muppets. Wocka, wocka, wocka seems appropriate.
  317. Lorikeet - 24, January, 2012 (20:56)

    Helen and John also don't seem to know the rules of ignoring. Belittling and snide remarks, along with demeaning poems are excluded.

    WEG:

    You're having a little lend of us in relation to those cyclists, mate, aren't you?

    We've already had suggestions from the government that graziers should pay for "emissions" coming from their cattle. Let's not encourage them further.

    If a Human Burping and Flatulence Tax is considered, I think it should first be applied to the cattle-hating vegans who produce huge volumes of gas by eating too many beans.
  318. Kerry - 24, January, 2012 (19:10)

    No, I don't think that cyclist should be licensed. The majority of cyclists are children, there are already enough financial barriers to them having an active lifestyle without putting up another one.
    I regularly ride my bike, (and I also have several vehicles registered for use on the roads, as well as having been a licensed driver for 30 yrs). As much as possible I ride on bike tracks but sometimes there is no choice but to go on the road where I do follow the rules as well as keeping to the side of the road as much as possible (although this presents its own set of dangers). When driving, the majority of cyclists that I encounter on the road are polite and follow the rules. Licensing cyclists would just be another beaurocratic nightmare.
  319. Sue Do-Nim - 24, January, 2012 (17:49)

    WEG:
    I know it’s very difficult to “Extract”

    a straight answer from you but..

    You stated @ 17:01.

    “ Cars will be taxed even more with the

    CO2 tax”…How so?
  320. Kay Kelly - 24, January, 2012 (17:03)

    Helen

    Did you have a poem deleted?

    If so, and the comment by Alan (13:44 20/1) hasn't been removed (quite insulting to other bloggers), then it makes one wonder! But some of Lorikeet's comments have gone too.

    Lorikeet's nasty comment to me (16:05 24/1) is also a complete over-reaction to my stating the obvious in a very tongue-in-cheek way - no abuse. But that's Lorikeet, I guess.
  321. WEG - 24, January, 2012 (17:01)

    I’m contemplating a change of mind on registering / taxing bicycles.

    Cars are taxed. Cars will be taxed even more with the CO2 tax, despite substantial innovation / improvement in emission controls introduced over he last 10 years. Cars now have cleaner and more efficient engines.

    In contrast, cyclist and their equipment have provided no measured improvement over time as compared with cars. The numbers of bikes on the road have increased exponentially over time. The person / engine on the bike is the problem.

    As with cows and methane, cyclists exude huge amounts of CO2 especially when going up hills / slopes.

    Have I identified a problem or not?
  322. Helen - 24, January, 2012 (16:39)

    Glenys where was that. Was it in Australia?...
  323. Helen - 24, January, 2012 (16:36)

    Still raining here. Time to shut down. The negative one is still bleating but I guess there is nothing else for some to do.

    Been good trading books with you Robyn -

    Kay be strong & have a cuppa before falling foul to the goading. I'm still sad over the death of my poem, but what the hec! There's always another one where that one came from & always another day. I might even be good at it one day with lot's of practise - Cheers everyone...
  324. Robyn - 24, January, 2012 (16:33)

    When I was a kid in the 1950's and '60's we all rode our bikes on the footpaths. Very few people took them on the roads. They were not required to be licensed and road rules weren't taught by the police in schools. I am speaking of NSW.

    Helen,

    Chloroform to an asthmatic canary? Oh dear, poor little bird!
  325. Glenys Green - 24, January, 2012 (16:11)

    Yes- years ago when I was a child, all bicycles were licensed at 10 shillings each. Police Officers attended schools and taught road rules and behaviour for cyclists and pedestrians. Bad behaviour by cyclists could be noted and appropriate steps taken to ensure future compliance with regulations such as keeping to specified lanes where applicable, ringing bells on dual use pathways, not car tagging, no helmet etc.
  326. Lorikeet - 24, January, 2012 (16:05)

    Kay:

    While we are ignoring one another, you will need to desist from making nasty comments. That isn't ignoring. It's abusing.

    Lots of people belong to political parties. Please save your venom up for the elected politicians you feel have let you down.
  327. Helen - 24, January, 2012 (15:20)

    Alum was used in many potions in the days of old - In contraception! the mind boggles!

    As for the potion I mentioned from my book. The recipe is for "Constipation in Horses"... Poor old horse having something like that put up it's nether region. I wouldn't like to be standing there when it let loose.

    A "drachum" was a bit more than a "grain". We don't seem to hear this measurment anymore.
  328. Helen - 24, January, 2012 (14:48)

    Perhaps that's where the "crossing of the legs" came from. This may have been a method used by those people living in far away places". The fellars have copied this trait (prob stole it from the girls), does your book provide any clues here Robyn?

    I have one for you taken from my book "Fortunes in Formulas" first pub in 1907. The book was in many homes & was last pub in 1944 - Contd.
  329. Robyn - 24, January, 2012 (14:45)

    "Their need is the same as that of quite a number of isolated women even in the one country in the world most civilized and advanced in the handling of contraception, England herself. In England even the well-to-do and well-equipped English-woman may find herself unexpectedly without her birth control equipment, yet in such circumstances that she urgently needs it. An Englishwoman abroad is often in such a predicament."

    She goes on to describe makeshift methods which include - olive oil - the bath sponge - salt butter - powder puffs - Vaseline - soap - vinegar - lemon juice - powders such as alum, starch or face powder - children's rubber balls - toy balloons - and coughing hard. I'll leave it to your imagination as to what one does with all these things.
  330. Robyn - 24, January, 2012 (14:32)

    "Too often, however, even their postal communications are interfered with, either by recent reactionary lawas, or, asin America, by the old Comstockery dating from the 1870's. Other modes of interference have been devised, so that there are innumerable women in the world now sufficiently instructed to know of the existence of birth control, so placed that they passionately want to use it because their need for it is urgent, and yet who are cut away from instruction and the sources of supply." (tbc)
  331. Robyn - 24, January, 2012 (14:25)

    Helen,

    Here is a small excerpt from "Birth Control Today" by Dr Marie Stopes (1928):

    Good Domestic Makeshift Methods.

    "In the main centres of civilization women can now obtain without any great difficulty expert instruction and the necessary supplies of contraceptives. But women living in the smaller towns or int the country, or travelling away from home, and women living in the far-away districts such as Canada, Australia and the East, may be quite out of reach both of any expert help from nurse, doctor or clinic, and any source of supplies other than those sent by post." (tbc)
  332. Helen - 24, January, 2012 (13:18)

    Excuse the "blips" in the last message. Losing my poem has left me rattled & distraught! Better go back to the laundry & fight with the washing until my BP goes down again - Catch you all in a little while...
  333. Helen - 24, January, 2012 (13:14)

    Robyn - I would love to read some of the text from your old book. It would brighten up this v gloomy day for us all. Afterall I think the bikes have run their course.

    I have more old books ones too. One is a science book from the 1800s when people used to make their own potions for everything from soap, to the treatment of constipation in horses. It is also v funny but was a very serious book in it's day. Would others be interested too. Perhaps other bloggers have such wonderful gems of literature somewhere we could all share. Nothing much in Politics to discuss at the moment during the break is there (& a change is good)...
  334. Helen - 24, January, 2012 (13:09)

    Crikey! that was quick! Monitor, there is a (c) on my poem so you had better not steal it! Don't you know that we seniors are not supposed to remember what we have done as easily as when we are young.

    Gone, gone, gone forever. Disappeared down the orifice of a mouse! What an ugly way to go for such a heartfelt piece of originality...
  335. Robyn - 24, January, 2012 (12:21)

    Very busy today so not tuning in as often as I'd like. Just managed to catch a glimpse of your poem Helen before it disappeared. Pity - it was funny.

    Kay, I agree with what you said about language at 10:25. Indeed it lives and evolves to ever reflect present day society. Also provides us with historical context to spark imagination of yesteryear. It is quite mind blowing to think of how language ever got started in the very beginning.

    Helen your old dictionaries are treasures. I have 2 very old books on contraception which are hilarious and so quaintly written. I think they must have belonged to my grandmother. I would never part with them.
  336. Helen - 24, January, 2012 (11:02)

    Like Robyn, I love the English language. I especially love looking back & also reading text from the 1800's. It has changed so much in 100yrs. I'm not a great fan of the "matter of factness" writing in a lot of today's text.

    I also hate movies where the whole story line is lost in the "F" word. A good story with the "F" word occ is OK. The young a being taught that bad language is the way to go is awful in my opinion.

    Stand up comics today are just so "unfunny" & the comics of yesteryear were so good. I still have belly laughs watching old series from the seventies. Many I had not seen before as I was always working at the time they were on - Contd

  337. Helen - 24, January, 2012 (10:47)

    A lot of rain Bob up your way. I have the feeling it is on it's way down here. It's drizzling here today & v gloomy)I must admit the garden loves it & has never looked better. I wish I could say the same re the grass & the weeds!

    Are there any "cracks" appearing yet in your armour as yet & a little fatigue starting to appear at times. Having the GKs is so lovely but equally lovely is the feeling of having the house back when everyone is gone.

    I also find within a day I am missing them & look forward to the next visit. Grandparents are weird creatures (at least this one is) in this regard...
  338. Kay Kelly - 24, January, 2012 (10:25)

    Only Lorikeet could twist a discussion about dictionaries into her usual political diatribe!

    English is a living language, and hence it changes with the times. Some people like the changes, others don't. It has always been thus. Actually, although I bemoan the demise of good grammar, I take delight in new words and the evolving English language. English of course is slightly different in all the English-speaking countries.

    If you want a language that doesn't change, try something like Latin - a dead language.
  339. Lorikeet - 24, January, 2012 (10:08)

    It's also teeming with rain here in Brisbane.

    As a writer, I own multiple dictionaries of various types. The saying I find the most abused is:

    "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

    Now common usage is:

    "The proof is in the pudding."

    Most people have problems with the use of "affect" and "effect". Very few seem to be able to use them effectively.
  340. Robyn - 24, January, 2012 (8:59)

    Now this is a topic I could get right into. I think in this age of "information" we are steering more towards dependency and away from creativity. We are becoming more reliant on having things provided for us to pass time with. Possibly this is at the expense of spending more time with our own minds, creating, day dreaming, imagining, wondering and communicating our wonderings. I have even noticed on this blog that a lot of what is offered is focused on views of " out there", which is enjoyable and understandable since the focus is on topics, but there is little individual, original thought and wonder about aspects of life. Mind you, we do have our moments of poetry and witticism.

    I wonder too if communication will begin to deteriorate as we become more and more glued to technology?
  341. Bob B - 24, January, 2012 (8:55)

    Pouring - we had 67 mm overnight!!!
  342. Bob B - 24, January, 2012 (8:47)

    Helen

    Looked at my dictionary (Macquarie) and all three words are explained as expected. I also use the Concise Oxford (1964) which is good but not as clear as the Macquarie.

    There has been a dumbing down of society through several generations. Parents primarily followed by schools must take the blame.

    I'm fortunate that my grandkids have professional parents and my daughter continues her education with a doctorate. They explain a lot to their children who follow as you would expect and they are thus well spoken. How things go in their future is difficult to predict as those values seem not to matter to most.

    Off now for the last activity with them this visit - Happy Feet 2. In pourinf up here at the moment.

  343. Sue Do-Nim - 24, January, 2012 (7:51)

    Helen:
    Yes, the language was beautiful but so was the script.

    Handwriting is a lost art.

    I believe you can tell a lot about a person by their handwriting.

    I remember in year 6 or 7 we still had ‘Copybooks”.

    There was a little Chinese girl in our class, (unusual in those days) who had
    magnificent handwriting. She was singled out by our teacher, the headmaster
    and the School Inspector has having better handwriting than the copybook…

    Neatness is accuracy and like good manners stays with you forever.
  344. Helen - 24, January, 2012 (7:38)

    (2)It's no wonder the young struggle trying to learn what is right. Texting destroys what's left.

    I love the written word & it pains me to see these changes to our language. When one reads old letters from the early diggers when they wrote back home, their english was just beautiful & they had so little schooling but were so articulate & wrote poetry & stories etc. TV has destroyed this wonderful art in many cases, except for a few. This is a case where so called progress has not been such a good thing in my opinion...
  345. Helen - 24, January, 2012 (7:37)

    I bought a "more modern dictionary" "The New English Dictionary & Thesaurus" Bob. There are so many of the old words missing. The words "alternative" - a choice of two things (n)& alternate (adj) by turns to follow by turns.

    Another I have "The Oxford" printed in 1930 another from my father, has similar spelling as in the "Chambers". The words are spelled "alternate" & "altern'ative".

    English is confusing for the young people & it's hardly any wonder why some struggle. They have confusing messages every day out there from ads on TV to their favourite TV shows. contd -

  346. Lorikeet - 23, January, 2012 (20:38)

    Here is a snapshot of just one retired couple, in which the man was a smoker and a gambler.

    1. After retiring and receiving his superannuation, the man spent 6 out of 7 days of the week on the Gold Coast gambling at a casino.

    2. After a few months, the money was all gone, so the couple had to apply for a Centrelink Pension, adding to the welfare bill.

    3. The man smoked and gambled the whole of his pension, and the couple lived off the woman's.

    4. When the man's fortnightly pension ran out (as it did very regularly), he held a knife to his wife's throat until she agreed to give him some of her money.

    5. The man eventually died of smoking related illness, leaving their house in a serious state of disrepair, and his widow without any decent clothes.
  347. Bob B - 23, January, 2012 (20:35)

    Helen

    English usage has become distorted from what we were taught at school. English was not my best subject being oriented to maths and the sciences but I learned to make up during my working life. I certainly learned the power of the right word in the right place.

    I use The Macquarie Dictionary as its Australia's official dictionary. Haven't bothered to follow this one through it as usage of those particular words is clear to me. We can alternate between alternatives alternately!!! Work on it.
  348. Helen - 23, January, 2012 (17:23)

    (3)cares anyway! As you can see this was the "real English" (& the spelling of). When I look at the TV & see ads that Bastardise our language, it's not necessary to be "picky" on this blog is it. If the meaning is visible stuff the rest I say.

    I just mentioned two with different meanings (guess which ones?)

    (3) The meanings of so many of our words & the spelling have been altered so much that now I have three dictionaries but still revert to my old gem passed down from my dad for the real meanings.

    Catch you all tomorrow Cheers...
  349. Helen - 23, January, 2012 (17:21)

    (2)Alter'nate - arranged or coming one after the other by turns, every other or second.

    alter'nately - the act of alternating (adv.)

    Alter'native - a pair (loosely a set) of possibilities

    & the best one

    "Alternative vote" - A system of voting whereby, if an elector's favourite candidate is out of the running, his vote is transferred to the candidate he has marked next in order of preference Contd

  350. Helen - 23, January, 2012 (17:19)

    Hello Everyone - Just popped in for a moment to have a look, but can't stay -
    From my "Chambers" dictionary printed in 1901 (in real Kings English) at the time -

    Alternate - To cause to follow by turns or one after the other -Contd

  351. Lorikeet - 23, January, 2012 (14:13)

    Someone I know, who admits he has a gambling problem, says he thinks he would be helped by Mandatory Precommitment.

    We should try to watch Question Time in the Lower House and the Senate, to elucidate the main points that are being debated.
  352. Lorikeet - 23, January, 2012 (14:11)

    I think it would be naive to think that the owners of clubs would support a "Hand on the Heart" attitude towards the problematic gambler.

    This has been suggested a few times in the media, but I think we all know that we live in such a greedy society, just about everyone is only out to grab the mighty dollar and to hell with anyone else.
  353. Kay Kelly - 23, January, 2012 (11:12)

    Re gambling:

    It is all very well for us non-gamblers to rabbit on about gambling, but I for one for love to hear the views of any NSA blogger who admits he/she has a gambling problem, albeit a small problem only. A bit like being overweight - which I am - and being given all this advice by people who have never had a weight problem.

    So, please, if you are a bit addicted to gambling (like I am to delicious food) let us know your views. I would love to become more informed on the topic!
  354. Robyn - 23, January, 2012 (11:10)

    For the problem gambler, an alternative to gambling solely on poker machines would be to alternate one's gambling between them and other avenues. Did I get that right?

    I agree with most of the comments so far. In particular, Sue Do-Nim's statement about the need to solve the problem at its roots goes to the heart of the matter. I guess pre commitment would be one way to aid those who are taking responsibility for their problem but I don't think it would help those who are not. They would simply spread their gambling into other avenues.

    I wonder what it would be like to live in a society free of all gambling bar charity raffles? All dreams of windfalls would be expunged. Entering anything with the hope of winning always brings a concomitant feeling of slight disappointment when it doesn't happen. I guess problem gamblers live with this see-saw to the nth degree.
  355. Kay Kelly - 23, January, 2012 (9:56)

    (cont.)

    As the Clubs/pubs etc benefit from the gambling, I think more onus should be on them to be legally bound to take measures against any identified problem gambler - identified by the Club, the gambler's family or social workers etc. That way the Clubs could put their hands on their hearts and say they are doing their part to solve the problem.

    And yes, I know problem gamblers might be angry to be thus identified and treated differently - but if all the venues they visit treated them the same, eventually it would all get too hard for them. The penny might drop.

    A limit to $1 would also seem sensible, but I am not sure how difficult it would be to modify all existing poker machines in Australia. It could be mandated for all new poker machines after a specified date. At least that should slow the rate of loss.
  356. Kay Kelly - 23, January, 2012 (9:55)

    'Alternate' versus 'alternative'. Perhaps Kate is an American? Or is considering meanings across a broad spectrum, including that used by our friends across that great ocean? The dictionary suggests that Americans use 'alternate' or 'alternative' as exact synonyms. But enough of this boring topic!

    Re gambling: I have already stated that I'm not sure how to tackle problem gambling. I can't see that a trial of pre-commitment will do any harm - it should provide some information, at least. But I am always concerned about any 'Nanny State' approach where everyone is 'punished' or at the very least, inconvenienced, to take care of a very small minority. And I hasten to add, I never gamble, so have no vested interest in this topic.
  357. Bob B - 23, January, 2012 (9:00)

    Ignoring all the bally hoo, we are off to Paradise Country this morning before the rain sets in for the rest of the week starting this afternoon. Mum arrives Wednesday to take the grandkids back to Adelaide on Thursday boo hooo. Happy Feet 2 might be the go tomorrow.

    It seems we are done with wayward Warne and are now into pokie reform. The cartoon in the CM this morning was spot on with an armoured sword carrying Wilkie burnt badly leaving an office marked PM underscored with Year of the Dragon. At least its keeping the media busy.

    I'm off to have some fun but have rain jackets and umbrellas handy.

  358. Robyn - 23, January, 2012 (8:51)

    Is Bartlett's blog an alternate blog or an alternative blog?
  359. Sue Do-Nim - 23, January, 2012 (8:41)

    More droppings from the “Vowel Fowl”, I see.

    Maybe it’s time she shuffled back over to Bartlett’s Blog and “Sucked the yolk “ out of
    them for a while.

    For those who need reminding Bartlett’s Blog is where the Winged One made copious postings
    on CHRISTMAS DAY ,for goodness sake!.. Says it all really.

    Compulsive Blogging is a sad, sad addiction.
  360. Lorikeet - 22, January, 2012 (21:20)

    I address this comment to WEG and other nice people on this blog (not Bullying Bloc).

    I think the government should try to do something about problem gamblers, but not go so far as to contribute to its usual "nanny state" tendencies.

    My information is that clubs would not lose money with Mandatory Precommitment. Some people might be more likely to leave poker machines sooner and buy a snack or meal at the club, and maybe even talk with the spouse for a change.

    The big problem would be loss of government revenue, which the country can ill afford.

    Some problem gamblers have shown an interest in Mandatory Precommitment as a way of curtailing their excesses, thereby minimising negative effects on household budgets.
  361. Bob B - 22, January, 2012 (17:50)

    Kevin

    You are right about Warne but he 'was' not 'is' a good cricket player. That's all he was and paid hansomly for it. To me, it raises one of those irritating imbalances in life. There are many more out there doing much better things for society without any public recognition and certainly not the mega bucks Warne collected.

    His latest tirade demonstrates what a poor human being he is displaying himself to be.
  362. Kevin - 22, January, 2012 (16:13)

    Shane Warne is a ratbag! He is one heck of a cricketer but that's all!He is only HEADLINE GRABBING. He is not someone I consider as a good example of how we Australians do things.
  363. Peter - 22, January, 2012 (15:39)

    When I was a kid in WA, all bikes had to be registered. Apart from anything else, it at least would then allow cyclists to justifiably claim that they have equal rights to use the roads.
  364. Just William - 22, January, 2012 (14:59)

    While were at it - Let's licence pedestrians in public areas as well - then the Brave New World has really arrived for those control freaks.
  365. kate - 22, January, 2012 (12:12)

    oops. that should say specifically
  366. Frustrated - 22, January, 2012 (12:10)

    Cant stand Shane Warne who does appear to think he is better that the rest of the population, however I do agree 100% that cyclists should pay for the privilege of sharing the road with us that pay registration, high prices for petrol. Let cyclists take some responsibility for using the road that us motorists pay for. I find only a very few cyclists that are polite the rest show such contemp for motorists. Let them pay to use the road.
  367. kate - 22, January, 2012 (12:10)

    in response to the more reasonable out there - I have no direct knowledge of anyone with a gambling problem specificially. However I do have some small knowledge of addiction in general and I believe that no matter what obstacles are put in the way of an addict they will use every means possible to oversome that obstacle. Therefore I believe that trying to limit the use of pokies or the amount which can be put into them will only limit those who are already responsible and do not have a problem. I do not gamble so I have no agenda in saying this.
  368. kate - 22, January, 2012 (12:06)

    Lorikeet
    I too only contribute to one blog. I may state my opinion in no uncertain terms but I do not do so in abusive or insulting language.
    I use plain English.
    And by the way - one of the meanings of the word alternate is - being one of two or more choices - perhaps a look at the Collins English dictionary will confirm that for you.
  369. Helen - 22, January, 2012 (11:02)

    (2)Clubs should also be made responsible too if it is only the pokies keeping them going. This wasn't so in the old days.

    Tobacco co's also supported sport & charity with one hand whilst killing & causing damage to smokers & those living with them. Is there a familiar undertone with their bleatings?...
  370. Helen - 22, January, 2012 (11:01)

    I think the bloggers who responded to my comments are on the "same page" as me even though views may vary.

    I wonder if a better way to go is for families to seek help for the person who has the problem. Perhaps they are already. It is a difficult one as people with addiction are the last ones to accept they they have a problem & often get angry when family members try to intervene. Sometimes they never do see the light & sometimes they have to lose everything before they seek help.

    Is there enough in place already in this regard or should there be more advertising & help promoted to encourage people with problems to come forward for help rather than being dictated to contd

  371. Sue Do-Nim - 22, January, 2012 (10:34)

    The Poker Machine legislation was always doomed.

    Firstly only a very small number of people who play Poker Machines are problem gamblers.
    The proposed legislation would NOT have helped them in any way.

    It’s like saying to an alcoholic instead of drinking ONE bottle of Scotch you can only have HALF.

    It doesn’t solve the problem at its roots.

    Why should Pokies be singled out and yet people are able to gamble to excess on Scratchies ,Lotto, Horse Races and the burgeoning and highly promoted new area of Sports Betting…Much more dangerous Re. addiction/corruption and aimed at the young!

    Job losses in Pubs and Clubs sector would have reeked much hardship and despair to families.

    Clubs ,not so much pubs, DO give a great deal back to the community.

    Both Clubs/Pubs pay a huge amount of tax..thus “giving back” to all.

    PLEASE NOTE, I have avoided all reference to the Political debate.
  372. WEG - 22, January, 2012 (10:14)

    Andrew Wilkie is a minnow in a big tank, a real light weight politician who will not be there next election. He just scrapped into Parliament via a quirk in the preferential voting, and not as an endorsement on gambling reform. Only could happen in Tasmania.

    PM Gillard has strategically, and for political expediency, removed an unpopular and unworkable solution to pokies / gambling, that affects only 0.4% of the population. The impact on extended families would be far greater though, as Helen has indicated.

    Even so, I concur with her actions.

    Nevertheless, PM Gillard will have to add another notch to her already large belt, another broken promise. She also added insult to Wilkie’s injury by telling him on national TV to “get on the same page”.

    PS: and we thought some NSA bloggers are nasty to each other!
  373. Robyn - 22, January, 2012 (10:04)

    Bob B,

    And my point was that I was not reacting!
  374. Bob B - 22, January, 2012 (10:01)

    Robyn

    I was not suggesting you or anybody has said bad things about Lorikeet. Although I know I have out of frustration ....... My suggestion is to leave her be and not react as all that does is fuel the situation without any form of resolution or agreement including an agreement to disagree. Only her is ever right.
  375. Robyn - 22, January, 2012 (9:54)

    Bob B,

    My comment was in response to yours at (9:12). While I was writing it several more comments were posted.
  376. Robyn - 22, January, 2012 (9:48)

    Bob B,

    I have said nothing negative about Lorikeet at all. I have been challenging her use of sock puppets. I have nothing more to say on the subject. I have made my point! There is nothing wrong either with seeking clarification of WEG'S statement. I genuinely want to know what he meant. If I want to speak to Lorikeet I will. Forming a tryst to not speak to her does not feel ok. I agree that everyone would be wise to leave her be (not that anyone has been cruel). Although she sets up and invites attention to herself she is just one person after all and surely must feel overwhelmed at times. I also agree with her that it is not nice to speak "about" her rather than directly to her. This is the last time I will do this.
  377. Bob B - 22, January, 2012 (9:44)

    Helen

    There is no doubt that gambling is a big problem for some, especially the families of those afflicted. This is, to me, the major problem - the families. The afflicted need help but their sufferring is of their doing.

    Pokies are but one form of gambling today and it is readily accessible. The main benfactors have become government through taxes and charities through grants and donations.

    To me there is no simple fix but a trial seems like a good idea. But, its not a wide enough measure as the afflicted will soon move to other forms of gambling if pokies become too difficult.
  378. Lorikeet - 22, January, 2012 (9:44)

    No wonder WEG is laughing. You people are nuts. I found John from last week. I have absolutely no idea who he is.

    Ta ta. I have charity work to do. This isn't a Blog, it's a Bullying Bloc.

    I could have discussed various aspects and considerations of Mandatory Precommitment, but I know all you will do is continue with your circus.
  379. Helen - 22, January, 2012 (9:36)

    I have posted before my views on the pokies. I have seen first hand some of the damage caused by problem gamblers to their families, so I don't like them v much.

    I do understand where the clubs are coming from too. But truth be known only a small portion of the money brought in is given to charity.

    I can also remember when I was a child when pokies were not there at all. clubs still all survived OK. The clubs have just got so big & my opinion is that much of the money is going to this end.

    On one hand children are protected from pokies & booze but it is condoned to let often drunk parents gamble all the money away. Strange logic don't you think...
  380. Helen - 22, January, 2012 (9:29)

    Absolutely Bob! Good comment...
  381. Helen - 22, January, 2012 (9:26)

    Changing the subject for a mo. The opp pollies are attacking the PM yet again re the pokies debate.

    I believe what she said to be correct. When the numbers are done, the legislation will not go thru the parliament because too many would be affected by it (pollies) & their jobs (she didn't say that) but that would be the reason for it's not passing thru. The backlash would be huge for many.

    The legislation has not been rejected just altered. Surely this is the way to go with a trial first. Do other bloggers think wilkie is going a bit too far (or not)?

    If the Gov had gone all the way, again they would have been attacked for being in his pocket. Another case of dammned if you do & d if you don't in my opinion...
  382. Bob B - 22, January, 2012 (9:22)

    Since saying what I did in my last post I have read:

    I swore never to be silent wherever and whenever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Elie Wiesel.

    Maybe there is merit in a challenge but my readings have suggested silence or humour the best medicine in these times. Elie Wiesel, bless her, was speaking of the holicaust.

    Even with the damming evidence available there are those who deny it happened!!!
  383. Bob B - 22, January, 2012 (9:12)

    Robyn

    She has cast the mold and we have our impression set by herself. Accordingly, we know what we are dealing with.

    Best medicine is to leave it alone. I thought at one stage that might send her into ever decreasing spirals so she disappeared up her own thunderman.

    Lets leave her to it and see just how things go! Others will quickly discern that we do not have to defend ourselves as she makes that plainly obvious. How far will she go?
  384. Robyn - 22, January, 2012 (8:49)

    "they" meaning her puppets. The definites that others, beside myself, have witnessed are "John", "Geoff" and "Claude". The use of them does bring into question who other people are who support her supposed mighty intellect and view of the world and are inclined to be abusive eg "Alan" on this strand at 20 Jan (10:31), (13:44), (17:17) and (17:45). However, Alan has been around for a long time, has always been offensive and has behaved in ways atypical of the other puppets so I am not sure that he is a puppet.
  385. Nottakeet - 22, January, 2012 (8:41)

    Robyn

    You are quite correct. The time of John's blog was 20:25 not 20:12. I must be getting confused with the New Year. My apologies to both you and Lorikeet for this typo.
  386. Robyn - 22, January, 2012 (8:27)

    Thank you Nottakeet, but John aka Lorikeet's blog was at 14 Jan (20:25) not (20:12) and Lorikeet responded to John aka Lorikeet at (20:26) and (20:31). Her avoidance of my challenges further confirmed that John was her sock puppet. Her use of John in that instance appeared to be to show herself off in a certain light but often they are used to further attack others and support her anti government etc statements.
  387. Robyn - 22, January, 2012 (8:06)

    Lorikeet:

    Since you understand WEG'S statement "Why would you want to let the air out of our tyres?" in relation to sock puppetry, perhaps you would like to explain it?
    It appears WEG is not going to clarify.

    I have no response at all to the rest of your vicious diatribe. Been there, done that! Not worth it!
  388. Nottakeet - 22, January, 2012 (7:59)

    Lorikeet

    At 20:50 yesterday you stated:- “I don’t even remember a John from last week’s blog.”

    FYI there was a blog by John at 20:12 on 14 January 2012, to which you responded at 20:31.

    This interchange was queried twice by Robyn – 15 January 2012 (14:35) and 16 January (8:27).

    I am unable to locate your response to Robyn’s query.
  389. Helen - 22, January, 2012 (7:47)

    PS I don't think Poppiekeet liked my poem! Oh well, better luck next time, I'll just have to try harder.

    Practise makes perfect, so it is said
    A good cup of tea & more practise ahead!...
  390. Helen - 22, January, 2012 (7:37)

    I thought my comments were v light hearted & "friendly" yesterday. I would love a list of the personally insulting words I have ever printed. How one reads my comments is according to what they can read in & nothing to do with what I have ever said.

    On the other hand I have been insulted many times & now I am a ***** as well! Also as I don't have the time to contribute to any other blog because of all my work committments, my comments have never killed anyone & I am again insulted by the inference. No,I am "exclusive" to this blog & thoroughly enjoy the interaction & sometimes disagreements that is known as debating a topic. "taking the mickey out" is v Aussie. A sense of humour is also v Aussie, but I guess there is one blogger who seems devoid of any of this but sure as hell (opps!) can dish it out to others!...
  391. Helen - 22, January, 2012 (7:23)

    Good morning all!
    Bob you seem to be having a great time with the GKs. It is a lovely time. For me it was just a tad long this year from Nov until two weeks ago. I am happy to have a rest for just a little while. Two of mine are only 4ks away so they will be back as soon as I have gained my strength once again.

    My advice to you is take your vitamins (& enjoy the moment) as it is a v precious time & take have a good holiday afterwards...
  392. Bob B - 22, January, 2012 (7:09)

    Kay Kelly

    Sad is all I'll say on the matter.
  393. Kay Kelly - 22, January, 2012 (5:52)

    rmcn:

    I agree with what you say about Lorikeet's insulting messages to other bloggers. Sadly, I believe she so much enjoys 'dishing it out' to others that polite, respectful behaviour on her part is unlikely.

    It seems to me that as more bloggers (other than those of us already on her hate list) observe her rantings and abuse of others, they too are driven to comment unfavourably on her postings. Any sane person would start to think that if everyone else makes the same critical comments, and no-one supports me, then maybe they have a point. But Lorikeet seems to have some pathological need to convince herself, and try to convince others, that her intellect is so vastly superior to all other bloggers that this mismatch between her views of herself, and others' views of her, is just because she is a some female version of Einstein. Sad.
  394. Sue Do-Nim - 22, January, 2012 (0:27)

    Looking forward to replies from HELEN,KATE and

    ROBYN tomorrow.


    I fear the sh*t is really going to hit the fan.

    Definitively will be entertaining.

  395. rmcn - 21, January, 2012 (21:49)

    Lorikeet, you have just said "Intelligent people respect each other's views" Then you send three messages which are critical and insulting of others. I rest my case. Perhaps one day you will find that if you are pleasant to people they will return the favour. But sadly I dont think that concerns you.
  396. Lorikeet - 21, January, 2012 (21:10)

    WEG:

    Thank goodness at least some people understand the main aim of the government, which is to inflict Toxic Levels of Taxation.

    Some only understand how to be nasty. I bet Helen's husband spends the day in his shed, along with several of the other spouses.

    The only reason some want to "let the air out of our tyres" is because they know who has the superior intellect, and it definitely isn't them.

    Intelligent people respect one another's views. They aren't so dumb that they need to join with a nasty group to fail in their attempts to reach intellectual maturity.

    I fear they have driven Dieter B. from the blog. He was a nice, intelligent man.
  397. Bob B - 21, January, 2012 (18:31)

    I thought my initial entry was rational.

    But, I'm male so back to Baskin & Robins for another super strawberry sundae. It was just yum. Eat your heart out girls.
  398. Robyn - 21, January, 2012 (15:15)

    Kate, Helen & Kay,

    I agree with you all which means I have shifted from my original position somewhat. Registering (at no or nominal cost) makes sense but licensing is unnecessary.
  399. Robyn - 21, January, 2012 (15:07)

    It would be hard for the moderator to know exactly who is writing what since others can post from your computer. My husband and I are both NSA members, share our email address and occasionally he has posted comments.

    WEG,

    I find your comment hard to fathom. "Let the air out of our tyres"? Are you using more than one identity on the blog?
    "Duplicitous" is not harsh. It is the correct descriptor for the practise of pretending to be more than one person (oneself) on the blog.

    My children were horrified and outraged when I told them that someone once pretended to be me on the "Curtsey to the queen" strand. They have a strong sense of ethics and in their view, net trolls (a term that includes the use of sock puppets) are abusing blog ethos.
  400. kate - 21, January, 2012 (15:07)

    Helen. I entirely agree. I think a lot of people throughout the blog have used the word registered rather than licenced, which would seem to apply more to the bike than the cyclist. It does not have to have a cost attached - just something which identifies the bike (vehicle)so that miscreants, or even unconcious, injured cyclists, can be identified where necessary. And hopefully the fact that they are identifiable will remove the sense of security they currently have in being able to flout the road laws at will.
  401. Helen - 21, January, 2012 (14:45)

    I agree with Kay. Register the bikes & give them a traceable number. If they are given away or lost or stolen, they will be easier to trace.

    No money has to change hands until riders are using our roads & then a nominal charge to help with hospital bills is not out of the question.

    If a bike is given away the number can be passed on or they can be given a new number. Passing on the number seems a better idea to me.

    Bikes could be given a number on MFG & it could be registered on line by either the seller or the buyer in the name of who bought it & could be changed the same way...
  402. Kay Kelly - 21, January, 2012 (14:36)

    Oops!! Didn't mean to put my name at the top of my blog (14:29)! The comment was just a general one - I really wasn't talking to myself!

    I think my mind is still dwelling on the delights of Baskin & Robbins!!
  403. Kay Kelly - 21, January, 2012 (14:30)

    (cont.)

    No, I just think it would help to make cyclists better behaved and more accountable if miscreant cyclists could be easily identified by the public (and subsequently the police) by their 'number plate'. Just like car drivers are aware their poor driving behaviour can be reported.
  404. Kay Kelly - 21, January, 2012 (14:29)

    Kay Kelly

    Actually, having read through all the blogs on this topic, I am more convinced than ever that cyclists over the age of 18 should register their bicycles.

    It could be like the motorised wheelchairs - registered but at no cost with the Nominal Defendant picking up the CTP obligations. Alternatively, it could be a minor, purely cost-recovery charge to cover the cost of a small identifying 'number plate'.

    When I say 'register' their bicycles, I am not talking about passing a test to gain a 'license'. That would be 'over the top' and very expensive and troublesome to implement, and, I believe, quite unnecessary. Most adult cyclists have car licenses and are aware of the road rules (which, by law, they must obey).
  405. WEG - 21, January, 2012 (14:07)

    All this ‘sock puppet’ stuff is really hilarious. Why would you want to let the air out of our tyres? (I’m trying to conform to the subject matter on cyclist).
    Duplicitous, OMG that a bit harsh. Comments like this makes me LOL.

    BTW, I remember someone whom I will not mention, linked me with ‘Son of Lorikeet’ 2-3 months ago for which I never responded. You could be wrong again!

    It seems our Senior Group (NSA), most of whom probably don’t / can’t ride bikes anymore, have given our Fed Government permission to tax cyclist, to add to the 8 or 9 new taxes they’re put in place. Now that is strange!

    Glossary: OMG (Oh my gosh): LOL (laugh out loud): BTW (by the way): NSA (National Seniors Australia).

  406. kate - 21, January, 2012 (14:04)

    Kay - yes I know what you mean about multiple email addresses, but we have to log into the site before we can post so can't the moderator tell which member is actually sending the post?
    Maybe not, I don't know enough about that.

    I don't really care about being on her hate list. I say it the way I see it, but thanks for the warning
  407. Kay Kelly - 21, January, 2012 (14:04)

    Kate

    You are a person of my own heart!!

    Keep up the good work!
  408. Kay Kelly - 21, January, 2012 (14:02)

    Bob B.

    Now you have made me very jealous!! I just love Baskin & Robbins but try to limit my access to their ice cream parlours!

    Have a scoop for me!
  409. kate - 21, January, 2012 (14:01)

    If we are going to be pedantic - and let's - the meaning of the word politics is actually:

    of or relating to the profession of governing

    However, I said political which means

    Of, relating to, or dealing with the structure or affairs of government, politics, or the state

    and the meaning of the word social is:

    Of or relating to society or its organization

    Neither means of the people!!!!

  410. Kay Kelly - 21, January, 2012 (13:58)

    Kate

    I admire your valiant efforts to tell Lorikeet the obvious - but she is immune to logic! You are heading in the right direction to join the rest of us bloggers who have challenged her - on her hate list.

    Unfortunately, I don't think it is all that easy for the Moderator to know if the various alter-egos are in fact Lorikeet. It is easy to have several email addresses. My husband and I use different email addresses on the same computer, plus we probably have a couple of old email addresses we haven't used for years. It would be very easy for Lorikeet to have as many email addresses as alter-egos.
  411. Helen - 21, January, 2012 (13:45)

    I can hear the tears falling & her keyboard's gone soggy

    But she'll be back again, cos she's a tall poppy!
  412. Bob B - 21, January, 2012 (13:38)

    Robyn

    Sock pupperty has very evidently run through several topics over the past six months. Denials don't work escpecially when she was deliberately set up and fell for it - just the same as she was for lying. Caught on both matters but denials run rampant.

    I suppose the meaning of words is now her province but she is out on the last one when put to scrutiny - I'm being pedantic but justifiably.

    After two and half hours in the pool this morning the grandkids and I are now off to Baskin & Robins just down the road for a treat.
  413. kate - 21, January, 2012 (13:24)

    Surely the moderator knows whether multiple aliases are originating from the same member. We have to log in after all. Can the rights or wrongs of using more than one not be clarified by the moderator and if not acceptable, be stopped before they are posted?
  414. Kate - 21, January, 2012 (13:21)

    Lorikeet - what the words mean is immaterial. The point was that you have opinions on those issues and get very terse with those who do not share them or post an alternate view. I too have opinions on them but if the issue is whether cyclists should be licenced I don't try to discuss superannuation, the labour government, or banks and I don't get annoyed with anyone who has a different opinion from my own.
  415. WEG - 21, January, 2012 (12:51)

    I looked up Alan’s expression – probably made up by himself – but it’s part of the abbreviated new language for online stuff.
    ROTFLMAO = ‘rolling on the floor laughing my a.... (bottom) off’.

    Hope this helps
  416. Robyn - 21, January, 2012 (12:43)

    Lorikeet:

    There is no denying that you used a sock puppet - "John" - in the last blog strand. There is also no denying that you have used "John" , "Geoff" and "Claude" in the past. It is duplicitous to do this so I hope the challenge you have been receiving will encourage you to put an end to the practice.
  417. Robyn - 21, January, 2012 (12:34)

    In NSW mobility scooters are registered and can travel in all pedestrian areas as well as on roads. They are registered because all motorised vehicles need to be. One does not need a license to drive one. In fact, many elderly people choose to use them when they lose their drivers license. Possibly our own future folks!

    Since elderly people lose their license when they are considered incapable of driving a car safely, it does seem unusual that they are allowed to drive mobility scooters. However, there rarely seems to be a problem with them in my area which is mobility scooter Mecca. They are everywhere!

    Why should one require a license for bike riding and not for driving mobility scooters? If we push for one the other may be introduced and we all might be sorry one day.

  418. Lorikeet - 21, January, 2012 (12:29)

    "Politics" means "of the people".

    "Social" means "of the people".

    I also make no apology for having studied where our nation is headed for more than 8 years.

    Before people criticise, they should do the same. Maybe then they'd think twice before getting nasty and competitive.

  419. Colin - 21, January, 2012 (10:50)

    I also agree that Warne is a pompas narcisist. The next bit of self-indulgent surgery should be a brain.
    But then again, he is employed to play cricket - not to do anything useful.
  420. Colin - 21, January, 2012 (10:45)

    Yes, anyone on a bicycle (5 years old and up) shoud be licence tested (when was the last time you saw an arm outstretched in a turn signal), licenced and the bike registered. My car say to be roadworthy - why shouldn't a bike?
    The licence should also include organ donor registration - espcially for those idiots who flaunt the traffic rules.
  421. Helen - 21, January, 2012 (10:40)

    Correction (like bikes) should be (like motor bikes) - typo!
  422. Helen - 21, January, 2012 (10:38)

    Canberra is a wonderful example of well set out roads in regard to families. Where I am in the Hawkesbury is v good as well. Lot's of places to ride a bike safely especially in Windsor & Richmond. Further out where we are is not so good but then it is a bit more remote & there is a lot of space nvarious properties without having to play on the roads for all kinds of bikes.

    On the main roads there are still some fools seen without helmuts & riding in a dangerous manner. It is a problem what to do is also problematic...
  423. Helen - 21, January, 2012 (10:30)

    Perhaps payments for Rego only when bikes are ridden on a main road (like bikes)& just registration of all bikes to identify where they come from (except for dinkies & little tot bikes) who usually have parents with them anyway.

    If a person has been put at risk from a bike shooting past, a number on the back of the bike would help to find the culprit.

    We all have to pay to use the main roads, why should adults on bikes have it any different than a motor bike rider? Also when bike riders have accidents their injuries are also significant (if they don't die)

    Good comment Kate!

  424. David - 21, January, 2012 (10:01)

    Cyclist having to be licenced would severely punish the young, let them have their enjoyment. If the older ones (say 15+)had to pass some type of test, (though not to fill government coffers)they in turn would eventually be showing the younger ones the right way.
    Cyclists currently seem to think that road laws don't apply to them except if they want them to. Riding through red lights, riding "pedestrian crossings", 2 abreast in single lane roads etc.
  425. kate - 21, January, 2012 (9:28)

    Lorikeet - perhaps if you learned to debate the issue instead of bringing in all your political and social prejudices and insulting anyone who does not have the same views people would be more polite to you and listen to your opinions. I put one post on the previous blog but was not then able to see them for the following few days but have read it now. I can see what people mean by multiple identities. It seems your alter egos are the only ones who agree with you.
  426. Helen - 21, January, 2012 (8:08)

    You should say those four lines L whilst looking in the mirror every day before you open up your computer on this blog & from what I have read other blogs as well

    My last words to you...
  427. Lorikeet - 21, January, 2012 (7:40)

    It's a pity to see that some people are continuing with their bad blogging manners, and making false accusations.

    Please grow up and treat other people as you would expect to be treated yourself. From my Grade 6 teacher:

    "Do as you would be done by,
    Is a saying...old...but true -
    If you are good and kinds to others,
    They will be good and kind to you."

    It is exceedingly rude and offensive to talk about other people where they can read it, and even worse to make false allegations about them.

    This kind of behaviour is a poor substitute for mature debate. Other bloggers can see straight through it, so you have nothing to gain but a bad reputation.

    Others may also choose to skip over all of your comments and not read any.
  428. Helen - 21, January, 2012 (7:30)

    Some interesting comments from many others. I stand with my view re bikes though that all adult bikes should be registered with a personal number for identification purposes. Children should only be able to ride in the confines of their own home (or in a park or safe riding zone) with a parent supervising them.

    The age for riding on the road twelve yrs in restricted areas & over fifteen anywhere else on a registered bike.

    I also would like to see road safety rules taught before being able to access roads & being policed in the same way that cars are with punishment for those putting themselves & others at risk. Community service would be a good punishment with compulsary lessons in road safety. For compulsive risk takers a ban altogether for a period from riding anywhere & parents made responsible...
  429. Helen - 21, January, 2012 (7:28)

    Alankeet (aka Alan) 13.44 20th. Oh dear all this & me shut down for the night!

    Hold your head up high too dear Sue D-N

    I have mentioned on numerous bloggings that I am not a member of any party but follow the party & people I feel are doing a good job.

    "Sock Puppets", I think we all know who they are on this blog Contd

  430. Lorikeet - 21, January, 2012 (7:13)

    For those who live in the Pine Rivers section of the Moreton Bay Regional Council, the North West News is running a questionnaire on Public Transport.

    Albany Creek residents in particular might find it useful to contribute their opinions by accessing the link provided in last week's online copy.
  431. Lorikeet - 21, January, 2012 (7:08)

    Yes, Canberra is blessed with very well designed roads and bikeways. With an international airport being built, the traffic is likely to become much heavier, making the roads less safe for everyone.

    Have they finished the airport yet?

    The Moreton Bay Regional Council (to the north of Brisbane) has the following rules on shared bikeways and footpaths:

    1. Cyclists must ring their bells in sufficient time to alert pedestrians.

    2. Cyclists must give way to pedestrians.

    3. All dogs to be walked on leashes and, if necessary, have muzzles as well.

    Last night's "A Current Affair" ended with a request to submit footage of people doing the wrong thing.

    Alan, what is this: ROTFLMAO ???
  432. Susan Hopesmith - 21, January, 2012 (6:54)

    I have nothing against cyclists as a part of the community, the vast majority are responsible. But as a walker it would be good to be able to identify those hoons who think the rules do not apply to them. Too often I have seen elderly people on shared paths having to leave the path abruptly to avoid being hit by cyclists going WAY TOO FAST AND NOT SOUNDING A BELL AS THEY APPROACH FROM THE REAR. As I live in Canberra, it is not so bad a situation on the roads as we are blessed with a great network of off-road paths but you still see cyclists being really stupid in traffic and causing motorists problems. Yes..license them, mark them, do something, anything to make these rogues accountable for their actions just like the rest of us! Let the responsible cyclists get on with it and weed out the irresponsible ones.
  433. Alan - 20, January, 2012 (23:36)

    Lorikeet:

    "The schoolyard bullies have nothing better to do than pick on a woman they cannot successfully compete with. Anyone who agrees with me can expect to get the same."

    I'm only new to this blog but it seems we're all fairly safe.

    I can't find ANYONE who has agreed with you yet....ROTFLMAO
  434. Lorikeet - 20, January, 2012 (22:33)

    Trevor:

    Don't you think a motor scooter is too dangerous to share a bikeway with pedestrians?
  435. Lorikeet - 20, January, 2012 (22:23)

    This has to be the best comment I have ever read from Trevor Ridgway. It certainly makes excellent sense and shows a high degree of logic.

    For those who want to license all bike riders, we have to remember that lots of them are kids. In Queensland, they can't be held responsible for their actions until the age of 10 and, in the case of being an expert on the road rules and using them, I still think it is best to keep them off the roads.

    No one is safe on a bicycle, motor scooter or motor bike on the road, especially not when the roads are shared with buses, trucks and other heavy vehicles, or in the 21st century's heavy traffic.
  436. John - 20, January, 2012 (21:42)

    More laws are not the answer if the law is not enforced. In W.A. cyclists are supposed to wear helments when cycling, less than 50% wear helmets and are not pulled up. Like many motorists cyclists often do not stop at stop signs and do not indicate their intention to turn.
    Enforce the laws we have instead of making more laws which are not enforced.
  437. olivia pascoe - 20, January, 2012 (20:59)

    Every bike should be licensed (used to be in my days, that is nothing new); every rider should wear a helmet; every rider on the road or cycleway should have a set of written rules to learn and observe.
  438. Trevor Ridgway - 20, January, 2012 (20:14)

    Barb's comments have it right as I see it !
    NO LICENCE NEEDED FOR BIKES OR PEDESTRIANS.
    ALL MOTORISED VEHICLES NEED TO BE LICENSED WITH APPROPRIATE 3rd PARTY INSURANCE.
    However, there MUST be separation of all 3 groups.
    Roads for motorised vehicles ( "drivers"),
    Cycle-Paths for cycles("cyclists") ,
    and Pathways for pedestrians(on foot or a scooter or wheel-chair).
    If there is a clash ; then the least powerful prevail.
    CYCLISTS must dismount and become pedestrians where there is NO CYCLEWAY or where there are PEDESTRIAN PRECINCTS.(This should be enforced by police or rangers or some such ! )
    Avoiding "accidents" by intention and prevention will save lives and money.
  439. Mazza - 20, January, 2012 (20:08)

    Unfortunately, cyclists seem to forget, they SHARE the road with cars, trucks, 4x4's & motorcycles, they (the cyclists) are also subject to the exact same road rules as the rest of us. Cyclists need to show due respect to drivers as the drivers should to cyclists. There are no easy fixes. Perhaps education of cyclists on the road rules starting in primary school would go some way to sorting out the ongoing problems between drivers and cyclists.
  440. Rob Sneek - 20, January, 2012 (20:01)

    Sorry I haven't had time to read all the above comments but, the few I have read seem to miss the point - cyclists & motor vehicles do not mix. you cannot expect a cyclist @ 20kph(fast one)to mix with vehicles @ 60; 80; or 100kph; come on!!
    They should never have been given the right to ride on public roads - a cheap way out for the government, instead of designated cycling tracks.
  441. Peter Powell - 20, January, 2012 (19:20)

    Does not matter if they are licenced or not. Licenced vehicle drivers are killled every day in Aus. So along with the minority of licenced idiots on the road these days cyclists take their chances like everybody else, such as we good drivers. It is all a matter of wrong place at the wrong time, idiot vehicle drivers are just as vuleranable as idiot cyclists.
  442. Tim B - 20, January, 2012 (18:59)

    At what age?
  443. Mick W - 20, January, 2012 (18:37)

    Having driven beach road to and from work for many years I feel that they do need to learn a few road rules. They still run traffic lights. Take up hole lanes in peak hour traffic and are happy to thump a car when they think to driver is wrong. Tax payers paid a lot of money to put in a bike path and only a few use it.
    If you want to do the hell ride...do it outside of peak hours. Think about other people. Remember you are not the only people on the road. Plates would be great on bikes to identify the owner and report incidents to police.
  444. Brian Taylor - 20, January, 2012 (18:32)

    Is it really too much to expect that ALL road users should be licenced? We expect all regular road users to be licenced why not cyclists?
    That way, regular road users know that cyclists know the road rules & should obey them as well?
    Unlicenced cyclists would still be able to use Cycle or foot paths.
    Any driver’s licence should be enough to allow anyone to cycle on the road. Those that don't have a driver’s licence, should have to apply for a cyclist licence to use the road the same way that motorists have to. If cyclists disobey the road rules they can be stopped & penalised. People under the driving age can apply for a cyclist licence but would not be allowed on the road until they passed their test. This increases their safety as well as the motorist.
    Licencing cyclists puts everyone on an equal footing on the road.
  445. Kay Kelly - 20, January, 2012 (18:30)

    John O'Grady

    I agree with Sue Do-Nim (16:58). I'm very glad you have recovered completely from your nasty cycling accident. Clearly you had a good orthopaedic surgeon. So much for a fitness plan!
  446. Ken Foote - 20, January, 2012 (18:23)

    Register all bikes and more importantly fine cars that come within 1 meter of a cyclist
  447. Evy - 20, January, 2012 (17:59)

    yes, all road users should be licensed
  448. Bernard - 20, January, 2012 (17:41)

    Next we will be asking walkers and runners to wear registration plates. Shane Warne is an arrogate fool. I cycle and it is frightening the way cars fly past so close. Cyclists are also road users and need to be treated as such.
  449. Laurie M - 20, January, 2012 (17:31)

    I believe it would help safety on the roads if bicycles were licensed. There are quite a number of bikers in my area who take no notice on round-abouts, and totally ignore traffic lights, literally leaving drivers with their heart in their mouth at the near misses.
  450. Robyn - 20, January, 2012 (17:28)

    Kay,

    Thanks for answering my questions at 20 Jan (7:36).
    My husband is a cyclist and it is worrying to think he could be sued if, for example, he fell on the road and cars collided trying to avoid him, causing injury to someone. For us it would mean goodbye house and super, since that is all we have. I had not considered this possibility until this blog strand. I think now I probably would feel more comfortable if he was required to have CPI insurance for bike riding.
  451. Colin Green - 20, January, 2012 (17:24)

    SW has a big ego.Best ignored.If bikers have to pay rego they will want their piece of the road which will cause greater problems.Leave alone !!! but provide better education all round.
  452. Lorikeet - 20, January, 2012 (17:13)

    No one has yet mentioned the kamikaze skateboarders, who are a risk to themselves and others on train platforms, roads, footpaths and in shopping centres.

    The 5 items most likely to cause serious injuries/deaths in children are:

    Bikes
    Skateboards
    Monkey Bars
    4WDs in their own driveways
    Backyard pools

    I find the shopping centre more dangerous than a highway for pedestrians. Today's near misses:

    Teenage male texting while walking

    Teenage male barging out of shop while yapping on mobile phone

    Teenage shop assistant (female) swinging around with huge cardboard carton without looking first

    Small children charging all over the place

    Drug addicted domestic occurring in car park, resulting in damage to cars, followed by interesting police chase
  453. Lorikeet - 20, January, 2012 (17:02)

    Alan:

    In future more people will be working for bank-owned businesses for very pitiful pay, rather than the government. If things keep going the way they are now, there will be few if any other private employers.

    Bankers will control the Housing Market, Health and Education systems, and anything else they can get their grubby hands on.

    It concerns me that most NSA commentators don't seem to understand that they are trading into more costs for everyone with their opinions on Fat Fares on Flights and Bicycle Registration.

    According to the latest e-newsletter, the younger generations appear to be doing it tougher financially than the older people. We all need to consider the likely effects of supporting cost increases for families.
  454. Sue Do-Nim - 20, January, 2012 (16:58)

    John O’Grady @ 16:20

    Sounds like a nasty accident. Glad you’re OK now.

    If BOTH of your arms were in slings I would have thought that the inevitable
    question would have been…how do you..you know..Oh doesn’t matter.
  455. Robyn - 20, January, 2012 (16:51)

    Kate,

    If you go to the previous blog topic "Should fat people pay more to fly?", you will find an excellent example of a "sock puppet" when Lorikeet presented herself as "John" on the 14 January (20:25) and then answered John at (20:26) and (20:31). You might also like to read my comment in relation to that at 18 January (17:48).

    I also think Alan is Lorikeet.
  456. John O'Grady - 20, January, 2012 (16:29)

    Bob B

    Politicians achieve much the same result with 'Dorothy Dix' questions.
  457. Kate - 20, January, 2012 (16:26)

    thank you Bob. Its hard to keep up with the
    pseudonyms of the young but now that you have explained it I would have to agree that that appears to be what it is
  458. Bob B - 20, January, 2012 (16:26)

    Kate
    Wikipaedia says it better than me:

    A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception. The term—a reference to the manipulation of a simple hand puppet made from a sock—originally referred to a false identity assumed by a member of an internet community who spoke to, or about himself while pretending to be another person.
  459. John O'Grady - 20, January, 2012 (16:23)

    All of that has nothing to do with the blog subject. I have taken the tension from the front brake so that it cannot happen again and only ride the damned thing where I cannot get myself into trouble with it - not on a public road!
  460. John O'Grady - 20, January, 2012 (16:20)

    The most difficult aspect of that accident was having to move about with both arms in slings and field the inevitable question about the cause, the answer to be greeted with hoots and shreiks of laughter. After about 10 such incidents I changed the responce to 'an industrial accident' and there was no further discussion.
  461. Peter Cutcliffe - 20, January, 2012 (16:18)

    My job is to continually drive on our roads every day and I always see cyclists breaking the law and riding dangerously, expecting drivers to get out of their way. Registering bicycles would stop them running red lights and riding dangerously. They can get our registration to make a complaint but we can't do anything about their actions. It has been staed that most have car licences as well, I hope they drive better when in their cars!
  462. Bob B - 20, January, 2012 (16:16)

    Kate

    A 'sock puppet' is apparently what our youth call a posting from one sudonim supporting a comment from another where it is the same person placing both.
  463. John O'Grady - 20, January, 2012 (16:15)

    I was badly hurt in a bike accident a few years ago, entirely my fault. I bought a new bike, I needed exercise and modern bikes are a lot lighter and better than the old 10 speed. The last thing the dealer said to me was to warn me about the effectiveness of the brakes. A few days later I had to make an emergency stop and automatically applied full pressure to the front wheel as I had done thousands of time on my motor bike. Wheel locked and way I went, over the top. When 100 Kg of blubber is airborne it can only end up going one way! I broke both wrists, the left one in five places. Some excellent surgery, plating, screwing, physiotherapy later it healed superbly and I have had no trouble.
  464. Alan Cooper - 20, January, 2012 (16:06)

    I believe that everyone on the roads should be licensed. In the case of cyclists, there should be a very cheap but enforced scheme, mainly to take action against the idiots that everybody comes up against. A very few think that they are a law unto themselves, but most cyclists seem to obey the road rules.
  465. John O'Grady - 20, January, 2012 (16:02)

    Lorikeet hasn't hit the bullseye at all. (comment Alan 10.31) She has actually hit the bull's arse - fair, dead centre! All bikes should be registered and required to display an appropriate mark, a number on a small plate so that the owners can be traced and held accountable for their arrogance and bad manners. That is far more important than any issue of revenue raising or big brother watching. Mad cow!
  466. Kate - 20, January, 2012 (15:59)

    Sorry people - what is a sock puppet posting?
  467. Val - 20, January, 2012 (15:50)

    All road users should be registered and insured,no exceptions.
    Use the extra money to put on more police onto the roads to fine both the bike riders [many who are such arrogant fools that think the road is just there for them]and the many drivers we see everyday,speeding,cutting in and out,on ther phones,etc.
    It will be money well spent and save a few lives,as well as reduce much of the road rage these people cause.
  468. Des Halbert - 20, January, 2012 (15:43)

    As most cyclists already pay registration on their cars. What is the purpose of rego for cyclists.Just goes to show some of the bullying attitudes of a small minority of motorists,usually male and trying to make up for inadequacies in other areas.Shane use to be a good bloke, now he is just another "HAS BEEN" with a bad facelift.
  469. Kay Kelly - 20, January, 2012 (15:39)

    NSA Moderator

    I support Bob B.'s request that Alan's comment at 13:44 be removed.

    I believe it is a 'sock puppet' posting. Either way, it is extremely insulting and a real 'put down'. Uncalled-for and unacceptable.
  470. DIANE - 20, January, 2012 (15:27)

    CYCLISTS SHOULD BE REQIRED TO HAVE A REGISTRATION NUMBER AND INSURANCE.SO THEY CAN BE IDENTIFIED AND CLAIMED AGAINST MORE EASILY FOR ANY DAMAGE AND ACCIDENTS THEY CAUSE.
  471. George - 20, January, 2012 (15:17)

    Many cyclists are quite inconsiderate of others and know that they can get away with a great deal because they are confident that they cannot be identified. Of course cycles should bear some form of identification (such as a registration plate) and their owners should pay a registration fee or road tax as do motorists - to help pay for maintenance of the roads which they use.
  472. Bob B - 20, January, 2012 (15:17)

    Jim

    He is certainly Warne out, bowled leg stump by his own incompetence. Unfortunately the media give him space/time giving him a false sense of place in society. He can bowl well, so what, others can do their thing just as well and do so every day without fanfare. He certainly cannot drive well, it seems.
  473. Dianne - 20, January, 2012 (15:14)

    Maybe not registering them BUT I do believe they should abide with the road rules. I see many cyclists not stopping at traffic lights and doing their own thing. If we the motorist have to WHY not them. They would be the first to jump up & down. I am not against cyclists but against people not abeying the rules.
  474. Bob B - 20, January, 2012 (15:11)

    NSA Moderator

    I find Alan's comment 13:44 extremely condecending and offensive. If it is a 'sock puppet' as it appears to be then its even more offensive and should be removed forthwith.
  475. Bob B - 20, January, 2012 (15:04)

    Sue Do-Nim

    A certain 'sock puppet' is very evident at times.

    I think that's what they are called.

    Apparently the kids don't appreciate the practise and expose and ridicule the offenders.
  476. Viv - 20, January, 2012 (14:57)

    Recently a local cyclist was clocked & charged by police for going over speed limit of 60 kph after being clocked, many cyclists ride for pleasure and health & to save fuel. It would be simple to register a bike with the same number as the owners car for which they are already paying road tax. Others who have no car pay a bicycle rego, fairer all round. Some electrified handicap scooter owners assume complete ownership of pathways and could do extreme damage to walkers. Registration for all would make riders responsible for their actions.
  477. Jim - 20, January, 2012 (14:49)

    Who is Shane Warne? While I enjoy cycling, I would not risk going out on a busy road or street on a bike. Registration is an obvious point - but the local registration authority (VicRoads) are not capable of administering a cycle registration system. Think of all the legislation required - is the State Government up to it?
  478. Kate - 20, January, 2012 (13:55)

    Alan - I don't think either Helen or sue failed to understand the comments. It was more an expression of the belief that perhaps Alan and Lorikeet are one and the same person!!!!
  479. Helen - 20, January, 2012 (13:35)

    Yes Sue D-N, I think we ALL know who Alan is. Like you said the words are the same just the name is different. Surely there couldn't be an Alankeet out there as well!!
  480. Sue Do-Nim - 20, January, 2012 (13:21)

    ALAN ? @10:31

    What have “ Socialist clones” got

    to do with bicycle regulation?

    Your mantra is familiar …only

    your name is different…Mmmmm.
  481. Helen - 20, January, 2012 (12:32)

    I agree with both Kate & Rosemary. Children should not be allowed near a road until they are at least twelve & I also agree that any bike on a road should be registered. Whether or not there is a payment, all bikes should be registered in my opinion.

    Perhaps from the age of twelve & fifteen, restrictions as to where they are allowed to ride might be considered as well for their own safety & for the safety of motorists who often have to swerve to miss some of them...
  482. kate - 20, January, 2012 (12:32)

    As an added comment. I do not believe the issue has arisen solely because Shane Warne brought up the subject. Here in Geelong, there has been debate in the local newspaper over the behaviour of cyclists, and a definite frustration shown with them for several years.
  483. Kate - 20, January, 2012 (12:09)

    there needs to be a distinction made between adult and child bike riders. In Victoria it is my understanding that it is not permitted for those over 12 years of age to ride on the footpath. Therefore from that point on they could (and I believe should) be registered so that they can be identified if they break the road laws, just as any other road user must be. Many cyclists are discourteous and often deliberately provocative because they know there will be no accountability later, whereas they are able to record the reg. number of any car which does the wrong thing to them.
  484. Rosemary Wattle - 20, January, 2012 (12:05)

    I don't believe cyclists need to be licenced but believe the cycles should be registered at no cost to them; same as applies to the disabled and elderly who have to register their scooters. This would make bicycles easy to identify, especially if a cyclist runs a red light for example. They should pay the same fines as a licenced driver of a vehicle. There are many other instances too that they should be made easy to identify and held accountable e.g. holding onto a vehicle without proper control of their bike etc.
  485. Steve G - 20, January, 2012 (11:50)

    Do we really need to create another regulated process. What price are we prepared to set up a system of licencing, registration and the rest for every citizen who owns a bike. We need to separate bikes and vehicles and then Shane will be able to occupy his time with cricket and twitter.
  486. Shirley Gent - 20, January, 2012 (11:49)

    Yes i think those who cycle should be taught road rules & I believe that motorists need to be more patient with not just cyclists but other motorists on the road. Everybody is too impatient today no matter where they are. Shirley
  487. jannette Naiken - 20, January, 2012 (11:39)

    Being a regular cyclist and nearing 60 years of age I must admit that there are cars and cyclist who are both at fault here. it just that the cars are bigger and can cause far more damage (to bike and rider) than a cyclist. If each person respected each other and took the necessary precautions there would be no need for a debate. Most cyclist i have found are very courteous and choose to bike ride as an alternative for fitness and ease of getting from point A to B in heavy congested traffic. So please look at the bigger picture before debate and look at some positive solutions. remember it is harder for a cyclist to take down a car number plate than it is for a car driver hence all problems may be in the drivers favour 99.9% of the time. And more so if there are no witnesses.
  488. Brad D - 20, January, 2012 (11:30)

    Just very important point to all the bloggers.
    Who is going to enforce all the regos for the bikes.The police are flat out stopping the young hoons in cars that alone on pushbikes.
  489. John R - 20, January, 2012 (11:07)

    It's pretty simple. As several bloggers have commented, motor vehicles and cycles just do not mix.
    In the interest of fitness, my wife and I would love to cycle around our Brisbane suburb, but having spent a lot of my working life driving in SE Queensland we are not going to do it. Far too dangerous! The licensing question is irrelevant.
  490. Helen - 20, January, 2012 (10:53)

    (2)We have roads without any lights at all & still on a regular basis bike riders are riding on dusk & in the dark without lights. If the headlights don't pick them up they run the risk of being killed.

    No-one is really taught how to ride a bike, children simply learn by "doing it". Perhaps safety skills should also be taught & common sense as well if that's at all possible.

    One thing in Europe most do ride their bikes in a sensible manner. Perhaps their laws are more stringent than here. It would be good to hear from someone who was a bike rider in another C/try to compare the difference. My husband has been here too long to get a "from the horses mouth" opinion...
  491. Helen - 20, January, 2012 (10:52)

    Children shouldn't be riding on main roads with cars anyway in my opinion.

    If they are riding in a safe area then rego shouldn't be necessary. The main offenders are teenagers & adults who ride sometimes two & three abreast on the roads & many times without lights & helmuts particularly where we are living now. Contd -

  492. Margaret - 20, January, 2012 (10:52)

    20.1.2012

    Dear Friends,

    With more cyclists there are new conflicts ct with pedestrians and motorists. Regulation, and easy identification are needed.

    New pioneer green cyclists rs must accept this, instead of being aloof.

    Those who have never driven a car are worst.

    Real accidents can happen, especially in hard weather and, cyclists are very vulnerable.

    Riding in malls, plazas and pedestrian walkways is out. Shared paths area dangerous. Cyclists behind walkers can cause collisions, as walkers swerve into their path.

    Seniors, children and dogs are most at risk.

    Drivers in traffic blocked at cycling speed can get stressed. Lanes are too narrow to pass.

    Riders risk lives by riding on roads where there is a bike path

    BICYCLE BELLS USED TO BE MANDATORY AS PREVIOUSLY..

    YES, AS CYCLING WILL INCREASE, IT MUST BE REGULATED, CYCLISTS TESTED, LICENSED, AND EASILY IDENTIFIED.

    MAC







  493. Barbie - 20, January, 2012 (10:50)

    Totally agree with:

    Caroline Hobart
  494. Gretchen Sleeman - 20, January, 2012 (10:50)

    If you are an adult, ie. 18 years or more, you should only be allowed on a public road with a registered vehicle of any description. That would remove many of the cowboys who push capable and competent drivers to be so angry at the cyclist's behaviour. Dedicated biketracks also should be maintained better so that is not an excuse for riding on the public roads. But don't see the rider's groups lobbying local councils to do better maintenance, just whinge about it instead
  495. AVLSON - 20, January, 2012 (10:47)

    We would like to see cyclists where they belong- off the road. Everyday we see them weaving through the traffic and live in horror of seeing them involved in a traffic accident. Unfortunately there are too few bike paths that parallel the main roads. Another group that ignore the road rules are the motorised wheel chairs. I recently saw one driving along the Nicklin Way on the Sunshine Coast holding up a string of vehicles. The chair was registered but the operator had no helmet and no lights!
  496. LukeW - 20, January, 2012 (10:46)

    We weren't back more than a day after having ridden bicycles from end to end in the UK without incident and a motorist was sounding the horn at us for no apparent reason (you know, sometimes a horn sound friendly and sometimes angry). We knew we were back in Australia!

    I can't answer for ALL cyclists and neither can I critcise ALL drivers, but a little more patience all round wouldn'd go astray. As a car driver I get frustrated with other drivers and probably they with me, and same with cyclists. We all make mistakes, some costly, some luckily not. Good road craft is to do everything possible to avoid an accident, and that applies to all road users. Let's be patient, and no, registration of over a million new bikes per year is not the answer!
  497. Alan - 20, January, 2012 (10:31)

    Again Lorikeet has hit the bulls-eye:

    "How far away could we be from registration numbers being displayed on pedestrians' clothing and microchips becoming mandatory in our hands/wrists?

    The more criminal activity the government can encourage with its various "Me Syndrome" ideologies, the more opportunity it has to tax us, spy on us and take away our personal freedoms."

    Wake up Australia before you all become Socialist clones...living & working for Govnt.
  498. Ashley Edwards - 20, January, 2012 (10:26)

    yes bring in the push bike licence , as lots of bike riders do not know the rules of the road etc , and commit traffic offences an plus some or lots earn money like courier work etc , also childeren should be taught how to ride their bikes at school an learn the road rules . and by having a number plate on the bikes as it use to be a long time ago would be of great help to the police ,in catching offenders brakeing the road rules , as all car truck, motor bike users pay rego for riding on the main roads so why not the cycalists as they too use the main roads to get around ,
  499. Caroline Hobart - 20, January, 2012 (10:04)

    It used to be that bikes were used a lot before cars became more common. Then bike paths were installed off road in some cities like Canberra. You could cycle safely into town and from north to south and back hardly going near a road. My children rode to and from high school about 10 km each way on their bikes quite safely. Now cities have special bike lanes instead, sharing roads with cars and other vehicles. So yes, let's register the bikes and licence the bikers and be conisistent for all road users. They now also need a test like all other vehicle users to get the licence.
  500. Doug Thompson - 20, January, 2012 (9:56)

    A most definitely YES. Anyone including cyclists who uses the roads still has to abide by the rules of the road and this even includes horse riders, motorised wheel chairs etc.
    It should be compulsory for cyclists to have a horn, rear vision mirror, lights and reflectors. Cyclists should also wear appropriate high visibility protective clothing.

    I rode a motor cycle for many years and the injuries just from abrasion from the road surface can be horrendous.
  501. Peter - 20, January, 2012 (9:55)

    Bicycle riders should be licenced and plates issued as many bike riders disregard traffic rules and ignore traffic light signals, ride on any part of the road, obuse the rights of pedestrians by riding on footpaths and generally disregrading our road rules. This also applies to motorists and in particular pedestrians who cross roads without looking, jay walking and wear inappropriate clothing at night. We need more foot patrols by police and heavier penalties!Offenders must be made to visit an emergency ward at a major hospital and be re educated at night or day classes to fully understand our road rules
  502. Dorothy - 20, January, 2012 (9:34)

    There certainly does need to be something to make the cyclists more responsible. So many do not even wear helmets! If they are going to use public roads, have them undergo a test (maybe to get a bicycle license) and YES register the bicycle! My sons rode their bikes (& still do) BUT they had rules - no helment - no bike! Have them get responsible.
  503. Lady Di - 20, January, 2012 (9:33)

    Cyclists think they own our walkways, the roads and footpaths. I used to walk my dog on our local walkways, but many tried to run him down, yelled abuse at me, to the extent that us locals no longer use our walking paths - it is too dangerous!! The worst ones are the so-called "professionals", who ride in huge groups on a regular basis, and think they own everything. I find them very selfish.
  504. JackieB - 20, January, 2012 (9:24)

    i just wonder how this is going to affect the young children who ride to school and ride their bike everywhere, do the parents then have to pay rego for them as well???
    it is not as easy as it sound, in my country (holland)there are bike lanes everywhere, it is a bit different here...
  505. Rod C - 20, January, 2012 (9:23)

    I'm a keen cyclist and drive regularly. Sharing our public roads isn't easy for cyclists or drivers. Drivers suffer inconvenience whilst cyclists risk their lives. There is no reason why cyclists shouldn't be registered and held accountable for their conduct. Equally drivers need to be more conscious and understanding of cyclists, and demonstrate a little courtesy and patience. My experience as a cyclists is that many drivers demonstrate no understanding or courtesy and sadly a significant number demontrate open aggression towards cyclists. Ask Shane if he was texting when the incident occured.
  506. Lorikeet - 20, January, 2012 (9:20)

    How far away could we be from registration numbers being displayed on pedestrians' clothing and microchips becoming mandatory in our hands/wrists?

    The more criminal activity the government can encourage with its various "Me Syndrome" ideologies, the more opportunity it has to tax us, spy on us and take away our personal freedoms.
  507. Lorikeet - 20, January, 2012 (9:15)

    To date, an inner city bicycle hire scheme implemented by Brisbane City Council has failed to attract much interest.

    This could be mainly because it is much too dangerous. When I look at the behaviour of motorists, pedestrians and bike riders as a whole, I am quite surprised there are not even more accidents.

    "Me First" is a dangerous concept to live by.
  508. Helena - 20, January, 2012 (9:13)

    All vehicles that use public roads are registered. It is not unreasonable to expect that all cycles be registered & carry a plate which identifies the owner.
    Not only is this identifier useful for law enforcement, but in the case of theft etc.
    The same registration should be engraved on the frame.
    It is probable that with the knowledge that the owner can be identified, the general behaviour of cyclists would improve.
  509. Alan Hudson - 20, January, 2012 (9:11)

    Considering how much of the road cyclists of all types take up and think they have the right to take up, and consequently how long it often takes to find a place to pass them safely, a definite YES they should be licensed.
  510. Helen - 20, January, 2012 (9:06)

    Everything else on our public roads has to be registered (even the trailor no matter how small).

    If people want to use the main roads instead of their car, I think I am in agreement with rego. Most things are not expensive to reg, We have a few items, our trailor, small boat, caravan & the list goes on. It helps to identify the driver as well & would help pay for their transgressions & sometimes injury to others. A charge of $35 a year would be a good charge. Bad drivrs at least will be sorted out from the good in my opinion...
  511. JWM - 20, January, 2012 (8:56)

    YES. And they should also ride to the far left of specially marked cycle lanes. They use the road and should contribute to its upkeep - i.e. by paying for the provision and marking of dedicated cycle lanes and the general maintenance of them.
  512. Peter M - 20, January, 2012 (8:52)

    No, cyclists should definitely not be licenced, but rather than decide by popular vote, why not look at some European countries where cycling is much more popular. I remember at the time in Switzerland, bicycles had to be registered and carried a small licence plate.The fee included a third party insurance premium.
  513. Kay Kelly - 20, January, 2012 (8:49)

    Davidk

    I'm not sure where you live, but I would expect your State to still have many rules that apply to bike riders, including a requirement for lights when riding at night or in poor visibility.

    In Qld there certainly are rules about night lights. These include lights at the front (flashing or steady white light that is visible for 200 metres) and rear (flashing or steady red light - 200 metres), plus a rear reflector (50 metres in headlights).

    Perhaps not all bicycle riders comply with these rules?
  514. Susan O'Neill - 20, January, 2012 (8:44)

    Yes I definately think that cyclists should be licensed how else can they be idenified when in the wrong, i have been almost knocked down by cyclists riding on footpaths and have also had to drive at very lows speeds because they are riding three abreast with no thought to other traffic, they should be made accountable for their actions by being idenifiable as other road users are.
  515. Shirley - 20, January, 2012 (8:42)

    As someone else wrote. If this wasn't Shane Warne there wouldn't be a fuss made of it!
    I dont thnk cyclists should have to pay road fees but they should have to obey the road rules like every other road user. eg: stopping for red lights, using handsignals to indicate, and having lights on at night.
  516. Kay Kelly - 20, January, 2012 (8:36)

    Greg

    Most States have rules relating to the registration of, and rules applying to, the various wheeled devices that people use to get around.

    In Qld, there are 'wheeled recreational devices' (rollerblades, rollerskates, skateboards, foot scooters and motorised foot scooters) plus 'wheeled toys' (foot scooter, tricycle etc used by a child under 12 years of age).

    In general, these 'devices' can only be used on very minor roads (no dividing line, less than 50 kms/hr limit etc) such a local streets.

    They must keep to the left and give way to pedestrians and bicycles on a bicycle path. They are not registered. Local governments can make local laws to regulates their use - say, on busy footpaths.
  517. Davidk - 20, January, 2012 (8:28)

    Absolutely! When I was a teen and got my first bike, every biker had to learn the road rules and pass a police test on them. Doesn't happen now and it shows.

    there were also minimum requirements for bike lighting at night - another thing that's gone by the board.
  518. Heather C-D - 20, January, 2012 (8:26)

    If Shane Warne had never tweeted, we would not have known about his encounter with a cyclist.

    I'm sure there are lots of cyclists who say drivers need to be retested ... and regularly.

    Regardless, I think everyone on the roads be they driving a car or truck or motor bike or push bike, as well as pedestrians ... all need to obey the road rules.

    If we all lose the attitude, act responsibly and obey the road rules, IMO, there is no need for more rules.
  519. Sue Do-Nim - 20, January, 2012 (8:19)

    Pearl Moyseyenko @7:47

    " sometimes I just feel like teaching them a lesson and giving them a very near miss".

    What happens if your judgement is out and your near miss becomes a FATAL ERROR.

    Sometimes peoples lack of maturity is mind
    boggling!
  520. Jeff - 20, January, 2012 (8:18)

    Registering cyclists (pushbikes)? How ridiculous? What is this country coming to? This is just another example of "some" people who don't even begin to think things "all" the way through.
  521. Wendy - 20, January, 2012 (8:18)

    When I drive to work there is a bike rider who instead of riding in the bike lane, which is clearly marked for both bike riders and motorist, he insist on riding on the white line next to the motorist lane...why bother to have a bike lane if you are not going to use it. He causes much frustration to motorist who have to swerve out to miss him..
  522. Sue - 20, January, 2012 (8:11)

    One of the problems with cyclists is that it is legal for them to utilise a lane ie they can legally ride "two-a-breast". Drivers are often not aware of this provision and become upset about being caught behind cyclists for any distance. I believe that if this legislation was changed, "cyclist angst" would reduce significantly!!
  523. Greg - 20, January, 2012 (8:11)

    Car drivers are licensed and they do all the things descibed in your comments that cyclists do as well. Does a cyclist include kids riding a bicycle to school,a tricycle, a scooter or skateboard? For heavens sake, if you are licensed to drive a car, then drive responsibly and be aware of your surroundings. Next kangaroos and wallabies will need licenses too!
  524. Kay Kelly - 20, January, 2012 (7:57)

    I think someone mentioned 'scooters'.

    In Queensland, all motorised vehicles that use public roads must be registered. A moped or scooter is treated the same as a motorcycle. A motorcycle or car driver's license is required up to a certain engine size, then above that size, a motorcycle license is required.
  525. Chris G - 20, January, 2012 (7:49)

    The adage sprouted is "the road is there to share" and I believe that the costs of road repairs (pro rata), mandatory ambulance and third party insurance costs should also be shared and charged via registration to cyclists.

    This will also allow identification if required and be a fairer system for all road users.
  526. Pearl Moyseyenko - 20, January, 2012 (7:47)

    Yes, and I hate it when a cyclist shoots across a pedestrian crossing, which is illegal anyway, without even looking or acknowledgment and I have to brake suddenly - sometimes I just feel like teaching them a lesson and giving them a very near miss. A fear of being identified by a licence plate might make them think twice.
  527. Stewart - 20, January, 2012 (7:47)

    Present laws are confusing. Cyclists in my experience act as if they have priority wherever they may be, making life hazardous for both pedestrians and motorists. I suggest that if cycles had a clearly visible ID that they would be more considerate.
  528. dave bright - 20, January, 2012 (7:46)

    DEFINITELY NOT. society should be doing everything possible to encourage cycling to try and reduce car use, not introducing further obstacles.
  529. Maureen Lucas - 20, January, 2012 (7:38)

    Yes, I agree, cyclists should be registered and have registration plates, plus insurance if they hurt someone. Certainly the exercise taken by people cycling is a good thing but I think that far too much money is wasted on bridges, bikepaths, lock-up bike sheds at railway stations, etc. that are NEVER used or used by so few people that it doesn't matter. My other pet hate is when cyclists ride two abreast in traffic. It is dangerous - not so much for the amount of space they take up but from the fact that they weave in a way that cars do not.
  530. Helen - 20, January, 2012 (7:38)

    (3)I wasn't at fault so there were no problems. There was also no-one who stuck around so he was never charged either. I still don;t know exactly where he came from but looking at where he clipped my car, it looked he came from the L of the crossing.

    I really hate bikes on the road in this C/try but have no problems in small towns or down in the ACT where the roads are more sensibly thought out & divert the traffic away from residential areas. There are also many parks & places for everyone to ride.

    On our Hwys & main roads, it just isn't safe. In Sydney, more & more are riding bikes & motor bikes because of fuel costs...
  531. Helen - 20, January, 2012 (7:37)

    (2)I was still almost in the same position at the lights.

    He had no helmut & was only wearing shorts & a singlet. Lucky bugger that he was, he only received some stitches in his head.

    I thought he was dead as he was laying in a pool of blood on the other side of the road. I wasn't hurt either, but really upest. It also spoilt my perfect record of many years of not having any serious accidents or driving infringement Contd -

  532. Rod - 20, January, 2012 (7:37)

    Shame Warnie couldnt pick on some more intelligent problem to voice his opinion on and try and keep his name in the spotlight.
    Are the hair adverts and his latest romance not doing it for him -Leave the bike riders alone -why even our next Prime Minister rides one
  533. Helen - 20, January, 2012 (7:36)

    Do I like bikes on the road? NO!! I was nearly killed by a bike rider around five yrs ago on the Cumberland Hwy when he drove his bike thru a red light & crossed in front of my vehicle at the lights. Lucky for him and me, I started slowly at the lights & his bike just clipped the car.

    It propelled him thru the air & he landed on my car & was thrown across the road to the other side & his bike hurtled down thru my windscreen contd -
  534. Kay Kelly - 20, January, 2012 (7:36)

    Robyn

    In answer to your questions at 21:10 19/1:

    1. I am not an expert in law matters, but I would imagine anyone can sue anyone. Perhaps some more knowledgeable bloggers can provide expert comment?

    2. In Queensland, motorised wheelchairs must be registered. There are no fees for registration or CTP insurance. Free CTP insurance is provided by the Nominal Defendant (a statutory body established to compensate people who are injured as a result of the negligent driving of unidentified and/or uninsured (no compulsory third party insurance) motor vehicles). The person must have a statement/certificate/letter stating the person's mobility is severely impaired and needs a motorised wheelchair to get around.
  535. Brian Robertson - 20, January, 2012 (7:34)

    On your bike Warnie!
  536. Patsy - 20, January, 2012 (7:28)

    I just wish bicycle riders would stick to bike tracks on the road and not come round a blind corner on the footpath at full speed just because they are too impatient to wait for the traffic lights to change. I have been hit by a rider comming around the corner walking my dog and also have almost collected them as I reverse out of my drive way if this happens I'm sure it will be considered my fault even though a large percentage of them have earphones in!.
  537. susan white - 20, January, 2012 (7:27)

    Absolutely..they use and abuse the road footpaths and never use the cyclepaths and often go in the wrong direction!!!
  538. Helen - 20, January, 2012 (7:25)

    In European C/tries, everyone rides a bike. In many places there are nearly more bikes than cars. Last year in Germany I saw a young mother with a sidecart on her bike taking her small baby to the shops holding a little shopping draped over her arm whilst riding (it made me shudder).

    The roads are better & they all seem to ride where they want. I'm sure there are many accidents there as well & as far as I know, no-one is licensed & not all that many seem wear anything on their heads either.

    I don't know what the legislation is O/S but there sure are a lot of bike riders (young & old). My husbands cousin who is in her 80s just received a small motor to put on her bike to help with the hills in her local area - contd -
  539. Adrienne - 20, January, 2012 (7:17)

    No. Most of us who cycle are already registered and licensed because we drive cars too. Our children need to be able to get around and until public transport is heaps better and free for children. If we just all follow the road rules and bike training is taught to children then therenis no problem. I cycled around London dAily for years to and from work - a good hour each way in peak traffic and I only once had a problem when a bunch of young men in a car tried to get my attention by attempting to run me off the road.
  540. ES - 20, January, 2012 (7:11)

    Its the old story - a few spoil it for the many. Cyclists who weave danerously in & out of trafic, riders endangering my safety on footpaths, or who ride in large vehicle slip-streams, ride accross the ajacent footpath when stopped by a red light, dont "stop" at the signs, leave bicyles "parked" obstructively in entrances, ride off after involvement in vehicle accidents, ride up & down public stairways etc etc - of course they should be identified and held to account - if that means registration: so be it. I have also witnessed vehicles harassing bycicle riders and have been able to provide identifying information for the victim to act upon. And so it should be with bike riders.
  541. Lorikeet - 20, January, 2012 (6:50)

    Sorry, I meant "abusing a security guard".

    One has to wonder if we will just be getting a week of hot air about discipline, and then hear nothing more.
  542. Lorikeet - 20, January, 2012 (6:48)

    Living in a "free-for-all" society is enormously costly across a broad spectrum of considerations.

    A return to stronger discipline (manners) would be the best policy of all.

    On TV, last week seemed to be "Flood Commemoration Week" and this week seems to be "Make Children Behave Themselves Properly Week".

    I have seen footage of a 14-year-old assaulting and abusing a security, with a psychologist opining that parents had to be made accountable.

    I'm sure I have also seen a couple of other items besides the Warne incident.

    The government must empower adults (parents, teachers, police) within the society again, and to hell with all of the spoilers who don't care if our kids miss out on an education, hurt others or damage property.

    Unfortunately the government has done these things to our kids deliberately to empower the citizens of other nations, and to provide an excuse to pay them low wages (incompetent, incapable of team work).
  543. Lorikeet - 20, January, 2012 (6:47)

    An excellent point has been made about those who are "wired for sound" not knowing what the hell is going on around them. They are a danger to themselves and to others, whether they are drivers, bikers, pedestrians or students.

    Special transit lanes for bicycles may improve safety, but I still think a lot of people will get injured and die in traffic accidents. A lot of bikers are idiots, but so are many drivers.

    Some people fly through shopping centres using their motorised scooters for the disabled. These could give some older people such a terrible fright that they might fall over.

    Centre Managements should be freely advertising guidelines as to speed limits and behaviour for all.

    Then we have the kamikaze kids and younger adults who don't care who they barge into and injure.
  544. Colin Glover - 20, January, 2012 (6:41)

    I consider that responsibility should be commensurate with authority. all road users should have compulsory road safety education, and be aware of their responsibilities.
    Bicycles should have an ID tag , so that users are aware that they can be traced , and held responsible for their actions. colin
  545. Errol H - 20, January, 2012 (6:35)

    The roads were built 30/40/100years ago and as we are increasing our population by 400,00 per year they can no longer cope with the increased cyclist/traffic. It is the Governments for the last 30years that are at fault for not keeping up with infrastructure to cope with the increases. They are happy to sell everything and do nothing constructive with the money .
  546. Lorikeet - 20, January, 2012 (6:32)

    I guess another aspect is whether or not children should be allowed to ride bikes on the road. If bikes need to be registered as vehicles, surely riding them on the roads needs to be an ADULTS ONLY activity.

    Excellent points have been made about the way cyclists behave. This would include motor cyclists. To my knowledge, you don't need a licence to ride a motor scooter. This is completely wrong.

    I also object to children being allowed to use mini bikes. Just about anything with a motor should be for adult use only. My own nephew suffers a dreadful burn to his leg at a very early age from owning and riding his own mini bike.

    In Brisbane and surrounds, there are many new bikeways on which people can safely exercise. Where I live, the rules have been changed so that they have to give way to pedestrians and ring their bells when approaching.
  547. Sue - 20, January, 2012 (6:19)

    If we make bike riders register their bikes we had better be ready for the culture and mind set "I pay therefore I will ride in the middle of the road if I wish." Further, if we make bike riders pay registration, what about the mum, dad and kids who ride on the weekend? Do they all pay too? Oh, just another thought how does this new law get policed?

    There are rude bike riders, that's true - there are also rude car drivers. We all need a good dose of tolerance I think, and a return to using ones manners!
  548. Frances Jarad - 20, January, 2012 (6:04)

    For what it is worth I ride a bicycle and drive a car, and I believe both shoudl be registered if using a public road. Who remembers the old bay road when we had a footpath, cycle tack and a road for cars. Safe for pedestriand, cyclists and cars. Oh I believe motorised scooters etc should also be licienced and registered as often the frail who use them drive anywhere they choose even down the centre of the road in the dark with no lights on, very scary for the motorist on dark roads at night.
  549. brucee elliott - 20, January, 2012 (5:45)

    should cyclists be licenced and their bikes have registration numbers, ABSOLUTELY ! cyclists are the most selfish, law braking, ignorant individuals using our roads and illegally using our footpaths. A day does not go by when I don't see a cyclist with no helmet, no lights on the bike, changing lanes without signalling, running red lights because it suits them, riding on the footpath and cursing pedestrians who don't get out of their way, illegally squeezing in between cars at traffic lights and then pedalling off at snails pace from the front row. Visible registration numbers would at least make these ignorant individuals accountable for their law braking. I am surprised state governments doesn't already insist on this, they make us pay for every other type of recreational licence - fishing licence, gun licence, boating licence, learners permit - its another money spinner so start charging these selfish individuals for using our roads and illegally using our footpaths
  550. David Priestley - 20, January, 2012 (5:43)

    This only made news because Shane Warne being who he is. These type of incidents between cyclists and motorists happen quite often without any commentary. The simple fact is there are faults on both sides, cyclists seem to think the road rules often don't apply to them and motorists resent the fact that cyclists are often moving through traffic when the motorists vehicle isn't. It was interesting that the commercial tv news reports concentrated on Warne's side of the story rather than presenting a balanced story.
  551. Marcus Wigan - 20, January, 2012 (4:21)

    The point has been lost here. Bicycles with rego plates (or RFiD chips) become accountable. Owner onus is part of this chain. As cyclists have been massively subsidized in infrastructure it has made cyclists other vehicle conflicts greater on roads, as listed above. Thus at least some form of accountability is now essential. Not riders..vehicles.. Quite enough. However BIV runs an excellent third party insurance as part of its membership fee. This covers many of the gaps above. Freedoms are fine until freedoms for different people and groups collide.. Thus my comments. And yesbive done transport research for 44 years...
  552. Tina F - 20, January, 2012 (1:10)

    No. Not necessary. Cycling is a healthy activity, with the benefits being many. If we put too many restrictions on it, such as licences, it will discourage people from riding. Not everyone is an idiot and most cyclists are sensible and do the right thing.
  553. kim - 19, January, 2012 (23:58)

    i can just see that my 3 year old could ride a bike.

    NO
  554. Kathy - 19, January, 2012 (22:57)

    As a bike rider I find frustrating when I approach a pedestrian from behind when the pedestrian is wearing headphones and can't here my noisy warnings.Apparently I'm to blame when they are surprised when they eventally do notice I'm there.
  555. Barry - 19, January, 2012 (22:45)

    In all of this debate it's hard to choose that which is genuine concern and that which is just plain spite coming from both sides of the arguement.If we change the law everytime someone has a downer on something we would be in a fine old state very quickly.
  556. Lorikeet - 19, January, 2012 (21:43)

    WEG:

    Some of my comments are 50/50 tongue in cheek/serious including the one you mention.
  557. Lorikeet - 19, January, 2012 (21:41)

    rmcn:

    I think your response is a bit over the top. For years I have studied what goes in the world and found it to be very corrupt. The government leaves no stone unturned in its efforts to bring in more taxes.

    While we are being repeatedly told that a State election will be called next week, I'm fairly certain Anna Bligh will wait until after council elections, in the hope that local government will bear the brunt of disgruntlement with both state and federal governments.

    We are being constantly manipulated in one direction or another.

    I actually think the best solution to this week's issue would be to ban bicycles, motor scooters and motor bikes from the road. In the course of his lifetime, a biker used to have an 80% chance of being seriously injured or dying in an accident. No doubt the risk has grown over time.
  558. Robyn - 19, January, 2012 (21:10)

    2 Questions:

    1. If a cyclist is responsible for an accident between cars wherein someone is injured, can they be sued?

    2. Are scooters that many elderly/disabled people drive required to be registered?
  559. Nottakeet - 19, January, 2012 (20:19)

    WEG

    With respect, I don’t think you have answered my question. Does your insurance company offer better terms than mine? A simple question. A simple answer please.

    The other point is that I am not questioning what happens when I am responsible. I take out insurance to cover injury and/or damage for which I am responsible. In addition, every registered motor vehicle has CTP insurance to cover the driver’s liability for the costs of injuries to others as a result of the negligent operation of the vehicle. Why should cyclists be any different? If they are responsible, they should be liable and they may need insurance to cover this liability.

    Incidentally, I have never suggested that dogs or kangaroos should be insured. Perhaps we can discuss this in the next blog.
  560. WEG - 19, January, 2012 (19:39)

    RMCN – lighten up please (with respect). I’ve nothing to gain in saying this – but I read ‘L’s’ comment and thought it was 'tongue in cheek' stuff similar to my earlier comment.
  561. WEG - 19, January, 2012 (19:27)

    Recovery between Insurance companies in this day and age is a non event. It’s not cost effective for Insurance Companies to sue these days unless the claim is material.

    If you hit a dog or kangaroo, rather than a cyclist (heaven forbid) who will you sue?

    All you need to do is claim on your own co. and not worry about any repercussions. Very easy process.

    CTP claims is a different matter (and a State issue), and it’s normal to assume any person in a registered car is covered for medical claims. If the cyclist is involved, injured and immobilised, then the problem will be sorted out.
  562. rmcn - 19, January, 2012 (19:26)

    Oh dear Lorikeet, are you quite serious? You believe the state transport authority have paid Shane Warne to make a fuss so they can collect more taxes???!!! Judging my most of your comments I get the feeling you really dont really hold much hope for Australia's future. I'm surprised you havent packed up and moved to the Sudan or Tanzania. But actually I did hear a whisper Shane has been paid off with a good supply of peasant diet, and a terrific superannuation scheme!
  563. Nottakeet - 19, January, 2012 (18:59)

    WEG

    My car insurance would also cover me, but would seek to recover the amount from the person at fault or from his insurance company. If the at fault person could not be identified or there was a dispute over who was at fault, I would still be covered, but would probably have to pay an excess. If your insurance company offers better conditions than these, I would like to know the name of the company.
  564. WEG - 19, January, 2012 (18:32)

    ....get another insurance co. Mine would cover me, at no fault, for any damaged incurred.
  565. Nottakeet - 19, January, 2012 (18:26)

    Continued yet again!

    So the answer to the topic is obvious. Either arrange to keep cyclists off the roads and footpaths or insist that they are registered and carry third party insurance.

    As a passing comment to the Moderator or whoever decides how this blog is to be run – the current 160 word limit is absolutely absurd. Could it not be increased to at least 200 and a word counter facility provided?
  566. Nottakeet - 19, January, 2012 (18:24)

    Continued

    A motorist who drives into the back of another car is at fault and his/her insurance has to pay for the damage. A similar accident involving an equally culpable cyclist, who runs into the back of your car and causes damage or injury, will lead to no compensation whatsoever, because the cyclist is not registered and invariably not insured. This is the main reason for insisting on cyclists being registered and carrying the equivalent of third party insurance, if they are going to share the road with cars, or the footpath with pedestrians in those states that allow it. An associated benefit would be that a clearly visible licence number would assist in identifying the rogue cyclist, who behaves in a totally irresponsible manner. Examples of the churlish behaviour of some cyclists have already been provided by at least three of the previous bloggers.
  567. Nottakeet - 19, January, 2012 (18:23)

    WEG
    You are right. Anyone that bangs into the rear of a car, irrespective of why the car in front had stopped, is at fault. My only incident involving a cyclist occurred when I slowed to a stop in a narrow suburban street to allow someone to back out of their driveway. The cyclist behind me, riding head down pretending to be in the Tour de France, didn’t see me stop and ploughed into the back of my car. No damage to the car, but the intrepid cyclist took a tumble. When I got out of the car to see if he was OK, all I got was load of vile abuse because I had stopped and caused him to fall off his bike. The fact that he wasn’t looking meant absolutely nothing.

    The 160 word limit looms, so please see the continuation of this missive.
  568. Lorikeet - 19, January, 2012 (17:52)

    As a mother, I never allowed my children to ride a bike on the road. They could use bikeways or footpaths, as long as they were careful of pedestrians.

    As school students, they caught the bus or walked.

    In Queensland, it is legal to ride bikes on the footpath, because the road is much too dangerous.
  569. Lorikeet - 19, January, 2012 (17:46)

    Since we don't know who to believe, I think both of those involved should be sent to a training course on how to behave on the road by police.

    Perhaps the state transport authority has paid Shane Warne to make a huge fuss, so they can charge everybody a substantial fee to register their pushbikes.

    Tougher discipline throughout the society would save the government huge sums of money, but then they wouldn't be able to collect a Disability Tax and an Injury Tax, while cutting DSP recipients off, would they?
  570. WEG - 19, January, 2012 (17:33)

    Shane Warne - sham & shame? Was Liz on the bike he hit? Must be running low on public exposure to pick on a reasonably sensitive topic!! Come in spinner.

    Agree with Robyn, no registration unless you want to have another revenue / tax grab.

    Kay – stuff happens – anyone that bangs into the rear of another car, irrespective of why the car in front has stopped, is at fault. Sympathy to the injured though. Cover is provided via CTP. Wonder if the cyclist has a conscience in this instance. Never stopped to give aid? That's the worst of human nature.

    My son (aged 6 at the time) was hit by a car outside a school many years ago. Hospitalised, broken femur, ‘A’ framed plaster for 8 weeks. You never get over an incident like this. The repercussion for later life is now apparent, 30 years later.
  571. Kay Kelly - 19, January, 2012 (16:18)

    Robyn

    I don't want to get into the Shane Warne incident - who knows, with Shane Warne! And certainly in collisions between cars and cyclists, the cyclist usually ends up worse off.

    However, on this local road I am talking about, so beloved by cyclists, there was recently an accident where the 3 drivers did not come off unscathed. A local worker was driving up the bends, doing the legal 60 km/hr, when around one bend she was confronted by a cyclist in the middle of the road. Hit the brakes. Two following cars (not able to see around the bend) ploughed into her. Result: 1 car written off; person without car to do her work for several months (loss of income); person also with whiplash; 2 other vehicles badly damaged. The cyclist just rode off - no idea who he was - refused to give details.
  572. Robyn - 19, January, 2012 (15:58)

    No I don't believe cyclists should be registered. Let's retain some freedoms!

    It is ambiguous as to whether the cyclist hit Shane Warne's car with his hand or his bike ( if in fact at all). Either way, I'm sure the car coped! When cars and bikes collide, it is obvious which vehicle will retain the most damage. Equally, if someone is hurt it will be the rider, not the driver.

    Cyclists riding on footpaths with pedestrians, and whether this should be allowed or not, is another argument altogether. If allowed, strict rules need to be in place.

  573. Kay Kelly - 19, January, 2012 (15:41)

    Barb (cont.)

    There is the other issue of recreational cyclists (versus those that ride to work). The problem I mentioned in my first blog only has recreational cyclists on it - mostly at the weekend. Big groups of cyclists assemble at our little local bakery, either before or after their ride. The coffee is good, and the food great! And the conversation obviously very enjoyable.

    Unfortunately, this road that they love to ride so much is barely wide enough for two cars to pass, and extremely steep and winding. In general, a fairly dangerous road at the best of times. No chance of a bikeway ever being built there - cliff one side, steep drop-off the other.
  574. Kay Kelly - 19, January, 2012 (14:49)

    Barb

    What you say about dedicated bikeways is true. However, here in Brisbane many millions of rate-payers' money has already been spent on dedicated bikeways - separate from the roads. And to little avail.

    What do you see driving along? Adult cyclists on the roads with the cars, weaving in and out! The bikeways are close to the roads and extend from the suburbs to the city. But they are almost empty except for children! What a waste of money. So go figure!
  575. Bob B - 19, January, 2012 (14:40)

    Tom

    I nearly came to grief on a pedestrian bridge walking over with my S-I-L to my daughter's Masters graduation at the Adelaide uni years ago. The bridge over the Torrens was clearly marked that riders must walk but, no, a hell of a shout behind me to 'get out of the bl***y way'. Then I was abused for being in the way when he had to stop. So, uni students can't read or ....

    I'm not picking on Adelaide for it can happen anywhere but that was the closest I've come to being skittled. It's simply an example of rudeness and flagrant disregard not just for the law but people as well.

    Maybe a bank of short spikes that we can walk over and carry bikes over is the go.

    She is now well into her Doctorate. Hope we can attend the ceremony without cyclists next time.
  576. Kay Kelly - 19, January, 2012 (14:38)

    Tom

    Here in Queensland it is legal to ride a bicycle on a footpath. The cyclist must keep to the left and give right of way to pedestrians. I also understood cyclists were supposed to ring their bell to warn pedestrians of their approach, but perhaps that is not enshrined in legislation. I have certainly seen that requirement for many shared paths.

    Yes, adults often ride extremely fast and if you aren't aware they are coming up on you, you could get very badly injured. I have seen this happen. The cyclist abused the pedestrian for stepping in front of the bike, and the cyclist left the scene before the ambulance arrived. One example only, but not a good advertisement for cyclists.
  577. Barb - 19, January, 2012 (14:37)

    This debate is missing the point - the problem is that bikes and cars are expected to share the same road in the first place. Australia needs to get serious about making infrastructure changes that support healthy lifestyle activities such as cycling. The Government needs to learn a few things from European countries like the Netherlands and Germany that have dedicated bike lanes controlled by their own traffic lights to operate safely alongside (and not amongst) the car traffic.
  578. Tom M - 19, January, 2012 (14:18)

    In South Australia it is generally illegal for adults to ride bikes on the footpath. In Adelaide the police totally fail to enforce this rule. I've been knocked over and then blamed for not being careful! In fairness to pedestrians and other road users bicycles should be insured as part of a registration process.
  579. Kay Kelly - 19, January, 2012 (14:17)

    (cont.)

    Perhaps it is just adult riders that need to be licensed. It would be a shame if kids had to be licensed as well.

    It is interesting to note that here in Brisbane the Council has been funding bikeways left, right and centre. Great. Should keep the cyclists and motorists separated. Only problem is that when you are driving along, the cyclists are all on the road, and very few, mainly children, use the safe, dedicated bikeways. Another reason for licensing adults and not children. The children aren't a bother at all.
  580. Kay Kelly - 19, January, 2012 (14:07)

    (cont.)

    Sorry for delay in finishing this blog - life happened.

    Unfortunately, cyclists seem to love this road, too. They go uphill at about 5 Km/hour, and so must every car behind them. They can't get off onto the verge because the edge is so sharp and dangerous, and there is no verge. Motorists must act illegally and take their lives into their hands to pass the cyclists. It's just one of those many situations that has no suitable solution.

    So yes, I can't see why cyclists shouldn't be licensed in some way if they ride on the road. It need not be a large fee - just enough to cover costs - but at least cyclists who do the wrong thing could be identified.
  581. Bob B - 19, January, 2012 (13:42)

    This one is not a simple yes or no; in fact, its a yes and no.

    On one end we have the kids and learning to ride a bike is part of growing up. On the other we have adults who weave through cars and scamper across roads against red lights. The majority fall inbetween.

    We also hear about demands for more bike paths and shooing pedestrians off footpaths for cyclists. Some inroads have been made to infrastructure at some cost. Also, I opine that most adult cyclists are also car drivers.

    160 words limits me to say we should not 'tax' kids but need to make sure adults are aware of and can practise the road rules. So I conclude that legal adults should be licenced.
  582. Kay Kelly - 19, January, 2012 (12:54)

    I'm afraid I'm one of those motorists that shudder every time I see a cyclist sharing the road with me. My children and grandchildren are keen cyclists. In fact when they were little I used to take them on rides through local parks to a bike track, trying as much as possible to avoid riding on roads - and of course, I too owned a bicycle. And yes, I know it is a healthy and 'greenie' activity.

    But the road from the local village to home is very narrow, in poor repair, very steep and winding (rises 450 metres) and has double lines almost the entire 15 Kms. Motorcyclists absolutely love this road, but they are invariably polite and cooperative.
 

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