Occupy Wall Street
20, Oct, 2011 (2:36 PM)
Occupy Wall Street - but why?
Around the world, protesters are venting their anger against corporate greed as higher unemployment and other dire consequences of the GFC leave its mark.
Wall Street and protesters in Australia have erected banners and tents in major cities, including outside the offices of the Reserve Bank in Sydney’s Martin Place.
While it remains their legal and democratic right to voice their concerns, some say their continuing protests are becoming an unfocussed nuisance and unlikely to change anything in the nation’s boardrooms.
Do the “Occupy” protestors have a valid point or are they just a lot of hot air?
Disclaimer: The views expressed in these blogs are not necessarily those of National Seniors Australia. This blog is moderated and any content deemed inappropriate by the administrator will be removed, including comments that are offensive or discriminatory; libellous or defamatory; breach copyright, unless we have the owner’s permission to use it; or contain personal or commercially confidential material. The use of this blog to broadcast overtly party-political messages is also prohibited. Bloggers are urged to refrain from personal attacks. Any personal details shared here are public and can be found on internet searches.
This blog is now closed.
Occupy Wall Street
20, Oct, 2011 (2:36 PM)
Occupy Wall Street - but why?
Around the world, protesters are venting their anger against corporate greed as higher unemployment and other dire consequences of the GFC leave its mark.
Wall Street and protesters in Australia have erected banners and tents in major cities, including outside the offices of the Reserve Bank in Sydney’s Martin Place.
While it remains their legal and democratic right to voice their concerns, some say their continuing protests are becoming an unfocussed nuisance and unlikely to change anything in the nation’s boardrooms.
Do the “Occupy” protestors have a valid point or are they just a lot of hot air?
Disclaimer: The views expressed in these blogs are not necessarily those of National Seniors Australia. This blog is moderated and any content deemed inappropriate by the administrator will be removed, including comments that are offensive or discriminatory; libellous or defamatory; breach copyright, unless we have the owner’s permission to use it; or contain personal or commercially confidential material. The use of this blog to broadcast overtly party-political messages is also prohibited. Bloggers are urged to refrain from personal attacks. Any personal details shared here are public and can be found on internet searches.
This blog is now closed.
Comments (205)
ETS - 27, October, 2011 (15:03)
Service stations are hardly that these days and it is rare to find one that actually offers driveway service. I prefer to do banking transactions at a counter in preference to using ATMs, not for security concerns but again because someone is working at the counter and I often have a question to ask.
Also like Lorikeet, I prefer to buy my fruit and veges at the local farmers market. I find that the supermarket that calls itself the fresh food people has vegetables that often do not meet this claim.
ETS - 27, October, 2011 (14:44)
ETS - 27, October, 2011 (14:39)
Your 14:21 entry is almost spot on with the exception of one phrase. Remove "you people" and replace it with "us" or "we people" or another inclusive term that would include you, as you should be entitled to a circus ring all to yourself. If you made these changes I would agree completely. I'm sure you feel the same way about me.
Oh, we do live in a democracy after all, but I accept it may not be totalitarian enough for your tastes.
Cheers
Lorikeet - 27, October, 2011 (14:27)
I would consider our government to be an "oligarchy", certainly not a democracy.
I believe wholeheartedly that referenda should be held if changes to the Constitution are proposed. I also agree with Citizen Initiated Referenda, as outlined in your comment.
Lorikeet - 27, October, 2011 (14:21)
Lorikeet - 27, October, 2011 (14:19)
Helen:
I really enjoyed your post about banking and shopping. Now we need everyone else to follow suit.
Wesfarmers (Coles) is a very big company, but Woolworths is No. 3 in the top 2000 operating in Australia. I now prefer to do most of my shopping at the Supa IGA, which is smaller.
Lots of people are now shopping at farmers' markets and smaller providers where possible.
This morning there was a fairly long queue at the post office, but about 80% of the people were rejecting self-service, which was good.
ETS - 27, October, 2011 (14:10)
Or at least explain why the comments are removed when so many NSA blogging members want them to remain. You are working for us after all.
Robyn - 27, October, 2011 (12:37)
Yes we know that but we are asking for a statement to be inserted as in the past.
For example, in the old blog strand "Who will you vote for?" you provided such a statement at 13 August 2010 (13:54).
Could this practice be reinstated please?
Robyn - 27, October, 2011 (12:14)
You are avoiding the lateral medium. That will not do! This foot puzzle is of vital importance and must be solved before the blog strand is snatched away. If we all put our lateral heads together I'm sure we'll find the answer. It has something to do with microchipping, Woolies and the RBA. The current lead we are on about body parts is, I believe, quite significant.
National Seniors - 27, October, 2011 (12:11)
Brian Storm - 27, October, 2011 (11:47)
As for stealing feet, I'll let others run with that :).
Robyn - 27, October, 2011 (11:41)
Kay Kelly - 27, October, 2011 (11:24)
I support Robyn, Bob B and ETS re giving a reason for removing a blog.
ETS - 27, October, 2011 (11:12)
Thanks.
Bob B - 27, October, 2011 (11:03)
I Support Robyn's stance.
Robyn - 27, October, 2011 (10:53)
In the distant past you used to leave a message when you removed messages, naming the person and saying your message was removed because.....
Could this method be returned please? It helps to maintain contextual sense and also delivers a message to the offender as to why their message was unsuitable.
PS I am glad you removed Claude's highly insulting message to Kay.
ETS - 27, October, 2011 (10:45)
Robyn - 27, October, 2011 (10:27)
ETS - 27, October, 2011 (10:26)
I don’t know how long the currency limits on the Reserve Bank page have been in place but I don’t think they are new. I can recall many years ago hearing that sellers did not have to accept coins above a certain value. It makes sense and any reasonable reading of the page would not see anything sinister about it.
Andrew Jackson’s comment a couple of days ago has been removed from the blog and from the context of other messages it looks like a message this morning and a couple of other messages have also been taken off.
Bob B - 27, October, 2011 (9:53)
Thanks I certainly will ahve a good weekend as my wife returns home today after nearly three weeks off with er recently (18 months ago)widowed sister - she add a ball.
Kay Kelly - 27, October, 2011 (8:54)
Thanks for clarifying that - saves me the phone call. Yes, sensible people just try to clarify issues instead of blowing them up into a conspiracy.
I look forward to next week's topic. Have a good weekend!
Bob B - 27, October, 2011 (8:42)
It seems subservience is now demanded a most pleasant way of doing business!!!
BobB - 27, October, 2011 (8:39)
I get 'pissed off' when people make claims without checking the facts - something Lorikeet excels at. So, I looked at the Masters web site which gave me the phone number and called. The young man actually asked me to hold whilst he checked about cash payment and came back to confirm cash payments can most definitely be made. Our last posts crossed.
Kay Kelly - 27, October, 2011 (8:33)
Thanks for your confirmation that your story of being a blog Moderator is another of your flights of fancy.
Resorting to insults is always a sign you can't answer in any meaningful way.
Bob B - 27, October, 2011 (8:31)
Helen - 27, October, 2011 (7:37)
There would be rare occasions only where it might be necessary but overall, we don't have to use them at all if we don't want to.
As for Woollies, I gave up on them years ago and shop mostly at Coles for my grocery items and at our local butcher and vegie shop for all the "fresh" stuff.
I am quite fussy with what I buy and the locals are still the best (and the cheapest), here anyway.
I have this "thing" about shopping on line too. I like to see, touch and try on and after someone O/S tried to take money out of our account two years after we were in that place (Canada), I am even more fussy. Thankfully the bank saw it immediatly and cancelled the card.
This year in Germany I saw a new method which was quite amazing. My husband's cousin was able to pay for things with her card on her computer screen. Never seen anything like it! I wonder how long it will take before such a method comes here? It would also be very safe as well and no info is given to anyone in the process.
I look forward to the next blog and remember there is always ALDIs (I don't shop there either) - Cheers...
Lorikeet - 27, October, 2011 (7:02)
Kay Kelly - 27, October, 2011 (6:06)
OK - now I've read your link to the SMH article about Woolies - and I'm still not terrified!
This is just an article about Woolies wanting to cut costs (ever heard of that before?) by reducing the fees it pays to Visa/Mastercard by trying to get people to choose a Cheque or Savings option in lieu of Credit on their Debit cards. Apparently this precludes them paying fees to Visa/Mastercard (and the banks).
If people are really bothered this suggestion (and Woolies could possibly 'encourage' this practice by charging a surcharge for the Credit option on a Debit card) then they can vote with their feet and shop at Aldi/Coles. I have no doubt these two supermarkets will twig to the financial advantage of encouraging these disaffected shoppers! That's how commerce works.
Or, like me, you could get yourself a no-fee, 55 days interest free, Credit card OR PAY BY CASH! There is always this to and fro between the businesses and the shoppers - businesses try to improve profits by whatever method and shoppers respond!!! I get annoyed when a motel (or other business) applies a surcharge if I pay my bill with my Credit card. But I have options - not stay there or pay in CASH! I usually stay where I want regardless and choose the convenience of paying by Credit card. But I try to use my brain to make my way through life. But then again, I, fortunately, am not haunted by paranoid fears!
See you next week, Lorikeet. Seems you are copping flack on the Andrew Bartlett blog, too!
Claude - 26, October, 2011 (20:58)
The main problem with some people is that they have no foresight. This is not much use when evaluating what either the government or corporates are planning.
If the RBA says service providers don't have to accept cash, they are paving the way for future changes. Is that so hard to understand?
Bob B - 26, October, 2011 (20:47)
Lorikeet/Claude doesn't need to be microchipped as long as she can talk and/or write. That is sufficient identification.
Bob B - 26, October, 2011 (20:44)
Bye Bye Lorikeet. You don't seem to understand your views and the way you express them stand you quite uniquely in our senior's society. To stand out is not a problem in itself but the views you express are weird and that is a very unique attribute.
Robyn - 26, October, 2011 (20:42)
Claude - 26, October, 2011 (20:34)
Regardless of the opinions expressed by fellow bloggers, I would take the RBA statement as written. I conclude that at a later date, no cash payments will be accepted.
Dogs and cats have been microchipped for identification purposes for years. I saw a couple of young men on TV who had microchip technology implanted in their hands or arms before departing for overseas. This was to manage their finances.
What macabre methods of Identity Theft could be used at a later date? Years ago, I heard of Reeboks being stolen by cutting off feet.
Claude - 26, October, 2011 (20:27)
Kay Kelly - 26, October, 2011 (18:02)
Thank you for specifying the paragraph that is worrying you. I interpret that to mean that for some transactions (let's say, for example, buying a house, car, other expensive item etc,) a seller may request payment other than cash - maybe a bank cheque or other form of money transfer - and that requirement is not unlawful. Perhaps a bank cheque or money transfer is safer especially if the seller is concerned about counterfeit notes or some other issue etc.? I have no doubt there are other circumstances and other good reasons a seller might prefer not to receive cash, and as long as that is flagged up before the 'contract' is entered into by the buyer, it is not unlawful to ask that the payment not be in cash. No problem! A contract requires both parties to agree before it can proceed.
And as Bob B. says, a seller such as Woolies would be highly unlikely to refuse cash. That would constitute a very silly business practice which would reduce sales and profits. Not likely! Most people use the convenience of a credit/debit card for larger purchases (such as the weekly shop) in any case. I have never, ever seen a shop refuse to accept cash.
So I still can't see a problem with the RBA guidelines. And look, I didn't even have to accuse anyone of being "dense".
Bob B - 26, October, 2011 (17:13)
I do witness some paying hundreds of dollars in cash. A cashless Woolies and Coles is of no consequence to me but I do acknowledge that's not accepted by many.
Bob B - 26, October, 2011 (17:05)
You do sound like Lorikeet.
No business is going to deliberately turn away business especially when its Woolies V Coles V IGA by denying customers the opportunity to pay in cash. They may legally do so but that would be quite stupid.
If that means I'm 'dense' as judged by a non known entity to me, so what, such judgement is baseless and meaningless.
Claude - 26, October, 2011 (16:48)
"It is the Reserve Bank of Australia’s understanding that, although Australian currency has legal tender status, it does not necessarily have to be used in transactions and that refusal to accept payment in legal tender banknotes and coins is not unlawful."
Kay Kelly - 26, October, 2011 (16:22)
Perhaps you are Lorikeet's alter ego? Who knows? But you certainly use the same approach - you just try to intimidate by using insults rather than actually address any particular point raised. For example, precisely which sentence/point of the RBA guidelines is the scary bit I am just not understanding? Please be more precise.
And Lorikeet - am I dying to look at the blog you are moderating.
Bob B - 26, October, 2011 (16:17)
I too, quite a number of topics ago, did similar research having access to nursing texts and, of course, the internet. I limited mine to the first and last of your outlook. As a consequence, I chose not to take up any discussion with her as it was futile. Even humour has failed.
Yes, the RBA 'advice' is as ETS and others have suggested, from my reading. Nothing sinister and done for good reason. How would anybody in business like someone turning up with $40 worth of 5 cent pieces! Some sensibility is necessary to control the few silly enough to see this as normal behavour. To be blunt, to do so is quite rude.
On to a new topic tomorrow and hopefully some useful and meaningful too and fro.
ETS - 26, October, 2011 (15:50)
Maybe you should have a closer look at the RBA link. Brian Storm said yesterday in his polite manner that Lorikeet was reading too much into it. I agreed with Brian and thought Lorikeet was trying to scare people with a deliberate misinterpretation. Kay said they were user friendly guidelines and commended the RBA for posting them. Any reasonable, rational, balanced reading would come to that conclusion. There is nothing sinister going on, despite the deluded paranoia of your alter ego.
Claude, it is so good to have you back with us.
Brian Storm - 26, October, 2011 (14:37)
So we have an acceptance of freedom of speech which is limited only by specific legislated restrictions, including laws against defamation, anti-inflammatory comments, restrictions on false or misleading advertising etc, all of which can be tested by reference to the High Court. In some ways our current framework is superior to a Bill of Rights which would limit our rights to what is in the Bill. Currently our rights are unspecified and limited only by legislation. There are of course other reasons for a Bill of Rights but I’ll save that for another discussion.
ETS - 26, October, 2011 (14:18)
You are right Arthur, freedom of speech or expression is not in the Constitution, but that does not mean we don’t have it. We do not need to have something in legislation to know we have it. The fact that we can blog freely or write letters to the editor or assemble together in the Occupy Wherever movement means we do have freedom of expression. I’m sure it is a typo because you would never do it deliberately but I loved your reference to Andrew Blot (sic), who got himself into trouble not because of free speech but because he chose to write something that was inaccurate. As someone else said, anyone with their own newspaper column and TV program can hardly complain they do not have free speech.
Arthur, I enjoyed your reminiscence yesterday but I suspect you are looking at the 1950s through rose coloured glasses. My memories of it as a small child are dim but from reading about those times I don’t think they were as perfect as you recall. Robyn provided a few examples so I won’t repeat them. But society is always evolving and it is probably not realistic to compare now with then. Don’t want to sound pompous but I think as long as we can leave the world slightly better for the next generation than we found it, then we are not doing too badly.
And Lorikeet, should we call you Ethel now, since you keep mentioning her name? Is she one of the 100 lorikeets? I know you are not meddling with my name again because you wrote that people who make fun of other people’s names have lost the intellectual argument.
Kay Kelly - 26, October, 2011 (14:12)
True to form - as usual - because you can't respond in any meaningful way to my and other people's comments, you resort to insults - "nitwits" etc. A very intelligent response!!!
Now, what is the name of the blog that you moderate?
Lorikeet - 26, October, 2011 (14:09)
I thought you might be interested in taking a look at the following link, which provides descriptions of various forms of market control.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/oligopsony.asp#axzz1ao0Ib8zv
Lorikeet - 26, October, 2011 (14:02)
Bob B - 26, October, 2011 (14:00)
ES - 26, October, 2011 (13:47)
Arthur Mac - 26, October, 2011 (13:42)
Rick - 26, October, 2011 (13:35)
"Totalitarianism (or totalitarian rule) is a political system where the state recognizes no limits to its authority and strives to regulate every aspect of public and private life wherever feasible. Totalitarian regimes stay in political power through an all-encompassing propaganda disseminated through the state-controlled mass media, a single party that is often marked by personality cultism, control over the economy, regulation and restriction of speech, mass surveillance, and widespread use of terror."
Democracy means rule by the people
Oligarchy means rules by the few or political parties in power.
Is Australia a democracy or an OLIGARCHY ?
Switzerland is a federal republic with a system of direct democracy, in which the ultimate power lies in the hands of the people.
Direct democracy is a way to check political power. It allows benevolent and enlightened citizens to oppose laws made by evil politicians and POLITICAL PARTIES.
Switzerland’s direct democracy means that all proposed amendments to the constitution are decided by referendum. Any other federal law can be put to a referendum if 50,000 citizens sign a petition - meaning that Switzerland’s federal system can be changed by its citizens.
Can you spot the difference now between democracy and our phoney democracy in which we are IRRELEVANT after each election....Totalitarianism is well what our system is.
ETS - 26, October, 2011 (12:46)
Wayne, I know what it says at the top of the blog but if you ask the Moderator to delete any overtly party political messages we will lose most of Lorikeet and WEG for a start and much of the rest of us as well. I prefer free speech to censorship any day and unlike another, I have never whinged to the Moderator about other bloggers. Andrew Jackson’s message was clearly a DLP comment but that’s OK, he was quite open about it. I don’t agree with the message but I have no problem with Andrew writing it. If there is any doubt about a message, let’s err on the side of more freedom, not more restrictions.
Lorikeet, thanks for looking up the meaning of totalitarianism and sharing your new found knowledge with the rest of us. Now you will see that it does not only refer to communist states but also includes the parties of the right, military dictatorships, the ex-regime of the late Colonel Gaddafi, Mugabe’s regime in Zimbabwe, Middle East countries and others. Although hopefully more moderate than the extreme examples I have listed, I would include the DLP through its desire “to regulate every aspect of public and private life wherever feasible” from your definition. If you think I’m stretching the point have a look at some of your own comments about personal relationships (noting you do not necessarily speak for the DLP despite the 100 lorikeets they are looking for).
Robyn - 26, October, 2011 (12:12)
Impossible to find the other one I'm afraid. Lorikeet has been asked to reveal details of this boast before, but she never has. I doubt it exists. Having read some of Andrew Bartlett's blog I must say I far prefer this one for interest and diversity of comment.
Helen,
Enjoyed reading you additional points about yesteryear.
You say that your husband's Parkinsons may have been triggered by poisons he worked with in the past. I have an acquaintance who was diagnosed with Parkinsons when he was 40(back in the 1980's). He was told that it was caused by the sprays he was using on his stone fruit orchard.
Helen - 26, October, 2011 (11:05)
We as small children were left at home alone until my father came home (at least an hour) and had to look after each other. This would be unheard of today (and this was in the fifties). I always came home from school to an empty house, rain hail or shine and never had anyone who could stay home if I got sick (so I didn't get sick!) if I could help it.
My husband was told that his Parkinsons may have been triggered by some of the poisons he worked with for many years that are now banned.There were, and still are many poisons in some building materials.
There was a lot of ignorance in the old days.
Farming methods were based on the UK and destroyed land with poor farming methods (ie chopping down trees) being encouraged and insisted on by governments of the day to attain crown land. I am just so glad now that farmers are better educated and informed (and government) and that this practice is finally turning around. Chopping down of the rain forests HAS caused changes in weather cycles, this is also a proven science now.
The "good old days" did have some high points but I am sure anyone who has been sick and needed life saving medical treatment would applaud the changes since the fifties. I could go on and on.
Robyn, again you hit the nail on the head...
Kay Kelly - 26, October, 2011 (10:39)
Thanks for the address to one of the blog sites. I will have a look at it.
Now all we need to know now is which is the site where Lorikeet is the Moderator.
Robyn - 26, October, 2011 (10:31)
I wish you would answer Kay's questions at 8.58. I too am curious and will not believe you moderate a blog unless you provide proof.
Regarding the blog where you are "whipping very young whipper snappers into shape" - are you talking about Andrew Bartlett's blog? I had a look because you have mentioned him in the past. Sure enough, there you are! In my view the "young whipper snappers" have the upper hand.
Kay:
http://andrewbartlett.com/blog/
Kay Kelly - 26, October, 2011 (10:15)
The others are right - you are beyond reach! I did read the RBA site and I told you how I interpreted it! You clearly interpret it as some sort of threat. And this is what you get from 7-8 years of study? What on earth are you studying?
BTW I found Robyn's response to Arthur Mac very good. We all tend to idealise the past and forget some of the not so good aspects. Robyn just mentioned some that she remembered, and this is a problem? Every age has good and bad aspects. But certainly times change and the way we live must change with them - for good and bad.
I certainly find it offensive that a person of your age keeps accusing everyone who doesn't agree with you of being somehow less intelligent and/or less informed. You know nothing about us or our qualifications/backgrounds/intelligence/life experience etc. If I were to judge your intelligence by the logic of your blogs, I would not think as highly of your intelligence or knowledge as you clearly do. But I know nothing about you so I guess I must give you the benefit of the doubt.
And you haven't answered my questions about those other blogs. Please do.
Lorikeet - 26, October, 2011 (9:40)
http://www.rba.gov.au/banknotes/legal-framework/
Lorikeet - 26, October, 2011 (9:36)
You will need to study up for 7-8 years and maybe then we can talk.
If you want to read something negative, just look at what Robyn put up in answer to Arthur Mac.
In the 1950s, we had mothers chatting and children playing happily in their own backyards. Men didn't expect their wives to do 2 jobs, instead of one.
Today we have burglars, guard dogs and high insurance premiums. Children are largely being raised by corporates, and nearly everyone is expected to work like a dog for poor wages, in order to provide an inferior education and hospital systems, which I feel are being deliberately run down to empower corporates as our "saviours".
Here is something to think about:
"While the world warns us off about the Skimmers and Scammers,
We are being skinned alive by the Ladling Grand Slammers."
BTW at the pre-election forum held in the seat of Bowman, the sitting Liberal MP Andrew Laming told us that they will bring in a Carbon Trading Scheme when other nations are willing to participate, but not a Carbon Tax. Too bad they are also ruled by their corporate mates.
Kay Kelly - 26, October, 2011 (8:58)
Also, I would love to know which is the blog where you are the Moderator.
Wayne - 26, October, 2011 (8:54)
A message yesterday, Andrew Jackson - 25, October, 2011 (13:27), was overtly party-political in support of the DLP. It should be removed immediately.
There are also messages on either side of it by ETS that are also overtly party political criticism of the DLP. These should also be removed immediately.
I make no comment about the content of the messages. I am placing on notice my objection to using this forum for party political purposes.
Thank you.
Robyn - 26, October, 2011 (8:44)
While I respect that your memories of the 1940's and 1950's are happy, I wonder if they may also be a little idealized? Life was good in lots of ways back then but there were negatives too.
Environmentally: we had massive clearance of rainforest land for dairy and beef farming. DDT was introduced and ingested by all of us. Menzies permitted the testing of atomic bombs by Britain in our deserts. The radioactive fallout travelled all over Australia. People used to litter - it was not illegal to do so. Many homes had no sewerage or septic system. Remember the sanny man?
Social: I remember a lot of religious bigotry and very judgemental attitudes. Women living with violent husbands had nowhere to go to ensure their safety and that of their children - refuges didn't exist. Domestic violence and much else was kept hidden because everyone cared too much about what the neighbours would think. Sexual molestation of children was also kept hidden. Children were not well protected in those days. People could drink and drive. Sexism was rife. Racism was rife. New Australians were called "wogs" and "wops". Australian Aboriginal children were being stolen and given to white families or put into service. I could go on and on!
Economic: Jobs for married women were scarce. Not many people had the money to travel outside of Australia. A trip to Sydney CBD (20 klms from my place) was a big deal. Many people did struggle financially back then but struggle was accepted as a norm. Jobs for everyone, availability of land and housing and lower expectations did create a greater sense of economic well-being.
Kay Kelly - 26, October, 2011 (8:24)
Lorikeet:
It is also a pity that when other bloggers challenge you on some or other (usually pretty extreme) viewpoint, you rarely address the challenge but rather revert to your old 'why is everybody always picking on me?' theme. Furthermore, you often use that opportunity to throw in a few more personal insults. For example, "the most bitchy women on this site are as dull as a butter knife". Do you not think this is an insult to all women bloggers as we have no idea who, in your mind, are considered to be "bitchy"! But no, this is just poor little Lorikeet responding to 'attacks' (aka challenges to your viewpoint).
No wonder so many bloggers have either left the site or have given up trying to engage in meaningful debate with you about any of the many, many red herrings you throw into the discussion topic. It is just so frustrating to read your flights of fancy and leave them unchallenged.
Kay Kelly - 26, October, 2011 (8:10)
I truly despair of your logic! For once I decided to look at one of your reference blogs - the RBA - to try to see where you are coming from! All I found was the RBA's notes on many topics, one of which was about what constitutes 'legal tender' and what are reasonable guidelines to (say) shopkeepers about their requirement to accept quantities of coins as payment. There is ABSOLUTELY nothing sinister in this - just what I consider to be reasonable guidelines, with occasional references to the relevant legislation, on a whole range of money-related issues that any citizen may at some time have questions about! For example, what are a shopkeeper's obligations to take the time to count large quantities of coins as payment (and thus inconvenience other shoppers)? What to do if a damaged banknote is given to you as change or payment? These are all useful, user-friendly guidelines, and the RBA is to be commended for posting them on its website!
I very much doubt anyone other than you, Lorikeet, or others of your somewhat paranoid views, would see these guidelines as a threat! I often use coins to pay for items. I always apologise to the seller for using so many coins but explain "I am getting rid of some shrapnel" (which eventually makes it impossible for me to close my purse) and count out the coins to the seller so that other shoppers are not unduly delayed. Most shopkeepers are grateful for some coins to use for change, as long as it does not slow down business. And, on occasion, I have been given a damaged banknote as change - what to do with it? So I found these guidelines quite informative. So I thank you for bringing them to my attention, but your interpretation is way off course.
helen - 26, October, 2011 (8:02)
To be realisitic, we MUST have change in our country and can never go back to the old days when everyone in politics remained "comfortable" and happily did nothing in order to not upset their electorates in case they got a lousy poll or lost votes.
Gov. Macquarie had more foresite in the old days than what has transpired for many a year now in my opinion.
I admire a leader who will stick to their guns and who is prepared to risk votes by beginning what has been so badly neglected here in Oz.
The young people who are out there are in full support of a better world for the future and they don't have time to wave flags (but they do vote!). It WILL be a techological world in the future and one many of us won't fit in to. In the long term we won't view it anyway (my bit of doom and gloom).
Each person on this blog has achieved at different levels according to the amount of chances and effort in one life time.
Whilst I respect the right to have a democratic opinion, it must be realisitic. In the last 200 yrs we have progressed more than at any other time. Our technology has far surpassed our infrastructure and cannot go back to the "good old days". Abbotts promise again this morning to do just this if the Libs are elected would be worse than awful. Considering this is their only policy at the moment, as a former Lib voter, I must say he disappoints me no end.
I hope his supporters are keeping a list of his comments when the time comes and he sees the light and changes his mind. I have my doubts he even HE will change anything that is successful particularly when another party has taken all the flack to put these necessary changes in place...
Lorikeet - 26, October, 2011 (7:48)
"Totalitarianism (or totalitarian rule) is a political system where the state recognizes no limits to its authority and strives to regulate every aspect of public and private life wherever feasible. Totalitarian regimes stay in political power through an all-encompassing propaganda disseminated through the state-controlled mass media, a single party that is often marked by personality cultism, control over the economy, regulation and restriction of speech, mass surveillance, and widespread use of terror."
-------
I think most people would be aware that Julia Gillard is attempting to gag the media. For decades, the United Nations have controlled our trade, after Whitlam and Keating negotiated away our sovereign rights, with a bit of help (and lack of reversal) from Liberals.
Liberals, Labor, Greens, Socialist Alliance (could be others) all support a global totalitarian government, and a Carbon-Based Religious Hoax, primarily to enable a redistribution of wealth through various interactive global control mechanisms. Such systems have been in operation for decades.
Part of the plan is to get rid of the Australian states, so the federal government can sell us out more directly to global interests.
In 2006, John Howard passed Sedition Laws, so that the government can jail its political enemies.
Robyn - 26, October, 2011 (7:40)
Your first sentence applies to you, not me.
Where did you get the idea I live in QLD? I don't.
I was not expressing expertise on the DLP and its policies. In our political world the DLP is not substantial enough to warrant any attention at all. I was commenting on the lack of factual detail in Andrew Jackson's comment because WEG wrongfully highlighted how factual it was. Really, I shouldn't have to explain these things to you - you must be "dull as a butter knife"!
Lorikeet - 25, October, 2011 (20:31)
As usual, you need to get a handle on what Greens really support.
Since you live here in Queensland, you should know that after 13 years of a Labor government, we have among the worst schools and hospitals in the land, and ancient dams that are cracking up.
The expert on the DLP and its policies certainly isn't you. WEG is as sharp as a tack by comparison. In fact, the most bitchy women on this blog are all as dull as a butter knife.
Fortunately there are quite a few men and some women who actually think about the issues being discussed.
Tonight's item on "A Current Affair" was about using a mobile phone to pay for everything, with plenty of scope for mistakes to be made.
In the not too distant future, all of us will be microchipped and the government will control everything we buy and have its nose stuck so far into our business it won't bear thinking on.
If you vote for the Greens, the proceeds of your superannuation will disappear even more quickly to the third world than they will under Labor.
Tonight Julia Gillard was on TV exhorting European countries to clean up their debt. This is just a feeble attempt at pretending Australians won't be paying it off for them, via a Tax on Air.
Lorikeet - 25, October, 2011 (20:20)
She said these types of employment preclude people from getting a loan to buy a house.
There are also workers being paid less than the minimum wage.
This ties in nicely with last week's revelation that those who own rental properties can expect to pay high land taxes and have negative gearing abolished.
This means that corporates will be taking advantage of the following:
1. more money going into superannuation
2. less money being paid in wages (by them)
3. control of the private rental market
4. control of utilities, including high charges
We also now have MiHealth, where you telephone a nurse for advice, instead of making an appointment to see a doctor. If you go to one of the new super clinics set up by Labor, there are nurses available, but no doctor on staff at all.
A few months ago, the house next door to mine was grabbed by Suncorp when they foreclosed on the loan, kicking a paying tenant out before her lease had even expired. The house was owned by a highly reliable man in his 60s, who goes overseas with the army on diplomatic missions. The house has now been empty for 5 months, despite the fact Brisbane has a shortage of housing.
Robyn - 25, October, 2011 (20:18)
Andrew: "The ALP unfortunately under the influence of totalitarian greens (Fact? NO. The Greens are not totalitarian) have imposed a Carbon Tax on us even though 87% of us voted for candidates who advocated no carbon tax." (Fact? NO. This is truth stretching!).
"This tax will wipe out large number of jobs" (Fact? NO. This is scaremongering based on shortsightedness).
"If DLP policies had been adopted in the 1970's every member of National Seniors would have a pension they contributed to during their working life" (Really? How do we know that? What are the details of that pension? How does it differ from and exceed benefits from superannuation? Short on fact!
"Hospitals would have no waiting lists. Dams would have been built and power stations would still be owned by the community." (Facts? NO All of this is supposition, no more).
There are very few facts in Andrew Jackson's commentary WEG, so when you say "Facts will always beat the fiction espoused in recent debate on the DLP", I suggest you are way off the mark.
WEG - 25, October, 2011 (18:19)
Robyn - 25, October, 2011 (18:12)
Lorikeet - 25, October, 2011 (17:27)
Please stay tuned to "A Current Affair" tonight, where they are supposed to be discussing some cashless, cardless arrangement.
I'm wondering if this could be the predicted Personal Electronic Microchip.
WEG - 25, October, 2011 (17:10)
Facts will always beat the fiction espoused in recent debate on the DLP.
The contagion for Labor is the Greens and PM Gillard must rue the day she made a pact with the radical Bob Brown and his dysfunctional group, the witches of eastwick.
Note today’s press release linked the riots in the Melbourne ‘occupy’ tent city back to the Greens, but we all knew that anyway.
Helen - 25, October, 2011 (16:25)
I'm Tom Terrific, greatest hero ever -
Terrific is the name for me, cause I'm so clever laa laa lala laa laa etc etc
It seems that many bloggers are from Qld, not me, I live in "God's Country" and away from the city's push in the Hawkesbury area of NSW. There are beautiful views from every direction and from from the front and this office I can view the Hawkesbury river.
We have birds and cows, horses across the road and utter peace.
There is a nest of swallows with four babies on our lower verandah that are quite lovely (if they didn't s**t on my verandah all the time!
There are Rainbow Lorakeet's here at times as well, but I will never view them the same again after joining this blog I'm afraid.
My little swallow friends don't know anything about politics but I sometimes wonder if I am being punished for not letting them live inside.
Perhaps it is the reason why they insist on leaving me messages all the time to clean off.
I had a lovely day today. I headed for the shops. The prices everywhere said 50% off, but the prices were twice as expensive! That Pagen Capitalism, it gets you every time!I did manage to find a birthday present for my ten year old grand daughter at "Miggles", now that's a good name for a new political party don't you think. It doesn't rhyme with Lorakeet though (and that could be a problem) -
Good evening, I have to catch up on the news and do some real work
Cheers...
Bob B - 25, October, 2011 (16:08)
Yes, I too remember those days and the New Australians growing in our community. I still have friends today from that group and they see themselves as decent Australians. It wasn't all as easy as you say but they got there and some did a mighty good job of it.
I think the immigrants of today have a different outlook to those of yesteryear and this is something we need to tackle positively. A topic on the blog as you suggest would be good.
Currawong - 25, October, 2011 (16:02)
You can take bulk coins to the bank for machine counting but be prepared to pay for this service. Better still sit at home and package them yourself in the little plastic bags you can get from the bank for free and they will weigh them for nothing to credit your account. This is what shop keepers and those who sell for charity to the public do today. Cooked and sold a few snags in my day.
Arthur Mac - 25, October, 2011 (15:51)
All this happened while Mr Menzies was Prime Minister. I think the country went downhill after he retired. Then we got Whitlam and we are still paying that cost today all these years later.
Now we have serious problems. Factories have closed and jobs have gone overseas. People are not happy. Migrants come to Australia and never learn to speak English. They keep to their old way of life and don’t mix in. The busses and trains are not as good as they were. Everything is dirty. There are too many teenage mothers who should not have children at all because they are still children themselves. There is a lack of respect for older people now and everybody is out for what they can get.
I don’t know what the answer is. Australia is a great country but there is a lot that has to happen before it will be as good as it was again. They tell me you can’t turn back the clock but I think maybe you can a bit to do things the way they used to be done. Then everybody might be happier again.
Bob B - 25, October, 2011 (15:51)
I'm sure we could have a deep and meaningful over a receipt for a loaf of bread but who cares anyway. The French would say fait accompli. Quad erat demonstrandum is also appropriate - I had a real yen for maths once teased out through engineering study, its almost an artform.
Bob B - 25, October, 2011 (15:43)
Bob B - 25, October, 2011 (15:38)
I then questioned politely about the touch and go machine recently installed and the answer was its all connected up the same way and a receipt is automatically issued along with the words 'This is only fair to the customer.'.
I then said on a seniors blog we have one who repeatedly tells us that some stores only issue receipts on request. Woolies is the only one they were aware of and both thought this was not right. Apparently Woolies are testing 'the temperature of public attitude' and coming up with its not acceptable not to issue a receipt for every purchase. We will see what happens.
At the end of the day if a consumer isn't savy enough to ask for a receipt in these times then they ware the outcomes. Yes, the little old lady might get caught but the bulk of public opinion will sway against Woolies on this, I believe.
Arthur Mac - 25, October, 2011 (15:29)
Dieter B - 25, October, 2011 (15:22)
Dieter B - 25, October, 2011 (15:21)
If I could ask the Monitor for a topic in the future I would ask for a discussion of what senior people think are the best things and the worst things about living in Australia today. This is a great country but it does have some challenges. These have been discussed in the past in other issues but I think it would be helpful to the NSA to have a direct input into it.
This is just my thought.
Robyn - 25, October, 2011 (14:54)
People like ETS, Kay, Helen, Bob B, Currawong, and our departed friends David Goss and Monitor keep the blog strands sane by challenging abuse, misinformation, paranoid fantasies, grandiose delusions, and scaremongering about Greens/Labor/communists etc.
ETS - 25, October, 2011 (14:45)
I suspect you are the man who plays with other people's names. It is consistent with your level of maturity.
ETS - 25, October, 2011 (14:42)
Brian may not want to say it but you are just exaggerating without foundation. No wonder thinking people do not take the DLP seriously.
Lorikeet - 25, October, 2011 (14:34)
Have you considered what would happen if the only remaining service line in shops did not accept cash?
There are ways of making things happen without coming straight out and saying:
"From now on, you use your card, or you won't be able to purchase anything."
For many years, we have been pushed into using cards. When an Australia Card is introduced, we will be left without any real purchasing power, any record of transactions, or any personal privacy at all, by an increasingly intrusive government which is at the beck and call of corporate abusers.
ETS - 25, October, 2011 (14:32)
Funny, I thought the community rejected the DLP a generation ago because it was a narrow sectarian based group that stridently supported an unnecessary war and wanted to impose its religious moral views onto the rest of the community. These were personal relationship matters that no political party should have influenced. The DLP was told in the nicest possible way via the ballot box to bugger off, but they seem to remain on the fringes of politics, even getting the odd Senator in Victoria. I don’t see that anything has changed with the DLP since the 1970s, apart from the new-found skill at blogging.
As for the totalitarian tag, you seem to have the same misunderstanding of what it means as one of your members who contributes frequently to this site. A study of political theory might help you, or perhaps not.
What a shame we can’t look back on your comments in a couple years time so we can have a good laugh at your paranoia about the Clean Energy Future legislation.
By the way Andrew, does your organisation really want 100 lorikeets? What a diverse group you would be then.
Robyn - 25, October, 2011 (14:23)
"Robyn therefore allocated a preference for a DLP candidate".
How? I number all my (100 or so) squares. DLP comes last! That's my preference.
Heard in the news yesterday that popularity for the Greens is climbing.
Lorikeet - 25, October, 2011 (14:21)
The idea that the DLP belongs to the extreme right wing is both a fallacy and a weak attempt by the Far Left to assist their communist mates. I cannot comment on anything that has happened in Victoria in the past, because I live in Queensland.
While extreme Greens are busy lampooning one of the few pro-Australian parties remaining, Senator Madigan and his team are travelling all over the country looking at manufacturing, mining, agriculture etc, and planning ways to lift Australia out of the mire into which it has been slipping for 30+ years.
Questions:
Why would the RBA have the rejection of cash by traders on its list, if the government didn't have an interest in it?
Why would the Henry Review have living off a reverse mortgage on your house as an option, if the government didn't have it on the back burner for future use?
Why would the government want to crack down on and investigate charities/churches when Liberals have deliberately taken their volunteer base away, and Labor/Greens have failed to reinstate it?
Should the Surf Life Savers Association have to be overseen by highly critical eagle eyes, purely because they now have to pay some people to do the job?
Haven't we all seen items on TV in which The Salvation Army has plenty of donated clothing, but no one to sort it for distribution and sale?
Brian Storm - 25, October, 2011 (12:31)
ETS - 25, October, 2011 (11:21)
"It was reported in June 2010 that the party (DLP) was on the brink of collapse, with rampant party infighting and less than $10,000 in the bank. Police were also investigating the disappearance of potentially tens of thousands of dollars, attributed to the Victorian DLP's former secretary, John Mulholland, who has lost cases before the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal, Australian Electoral Commission and Victorian Supreme Court over his claims that he is still "party secretary", despite expulsion from the party in January 2010."
The DLP website has nothing to recommend it and has not for some time now.
ETS - 25, October, 2011 (11:11)
Communists are not the only totalitarians Lorikeet. Right wing fringe parties can also be totalitarian. A genius would know that. You should google the word, then you can impress us with your wisdom.
Lorikeet - 25, October, 2011 (10:40)
Lorikeet - 25, October, 2011 (10:38)
In the meantime, I hope ETS recovers from the serious flap he seems to be in, which seems to inspire him to kick sand in the faces of other people.
For a Greens supporter to say that the DLP (which supports workers, small business people and farmers) is totalitarian will keep most people amused for the rest of the day! Even Greens candidates will tell you that the DLP is the most anti-communist party in the political spectrum.
Yesterday while the government had the police busily removing protestors against Corporate Greed from public view, they were also announcing a new plan which has the potential to further empower corporates, while kicking charities/churches. They said they were going to keep closer tabs on where the charity dollar is going.
Most people would be aware that John Howard decided that women with fewer than 4 children would need to work part-time in voluntary or paid work for 15 hours a week, once there youngest child was 6 years old. Otherwise they would lose their Parenting Payment.
This left schools and various other places that were heavily reliant on parents without any help, since most parents opted (or were forced by increasing household costs) to take on paid work.
I think it naturally follows that charities and churches now have to pay the people they employ in Op Shops etc and the charity dollar does not go as far.
I think this is one of the first steps in the process towards taxing the churches out of existence, so corporates can take over pretty much everything.
As we know, charities are already very much "under the gun" having to feed more than 70,000 people each week in Brisbane alone, and ordinary are becoming less able to make donations.
Bob B - 25, October, 2011 (9:24)
Bob B - 25, October, 2011 (9:23)
Brian Storm - 25, October, 2011 (9:16)
Currawong - 25, October, 2011 (8:15)
I did find some words when I googled Tom Terrific, But where is Mighty Manfred the Wonder Dog?:
Crabby Appleton's theme song:
My name is Crabby Appleton,
and I am simply awful.
It does my heart a lot of good
to do a deed unlawful!
I'm fond of gloom, impending doom,
I think good deeds are sappy!
I laugh with glee, it pleases me
when everyone's unhappy.
– (last verse sung in a low voice)
Crabby Appleton's theme also had a variation:
My name is Crabby Appleton,
I'm rotten to the core.
I do a bad deed every day,
and sometimes three or four.
I can't stand fun for anyone,
I think good deeds are sappy,
I laugh with glee, it pleases me,
when everyone's unhappy.
– (last verse sung in a low voice)
Yes, I do remember, sort of!!!
ETS - 25, October, 2011 (8:11)
Why don't you get out of the kindergarten and start showing the sort of maturity the Queen shows? But then you are a different sort of little old lady.
Helen - 25, October, 2011 (7:01)
I am reminded of a TV show that I used to watch when I was a child. It was called "Tom Terrific"
I don't know if you remember it. If you do, try and remember the theme from this show, sing it to yourself and substitute the name.
Monitor seems to have given up also from what I can see.
I'm off today for a lovely day out. I'm going to do my bit for "Capitalistic Pagen Shopkeepers" and I promise, I won't go anywhere near Woollies!
A beautiful morning where I am. the river is beautiful and the birds are singing - Cheers everyone...
Lorikeet - 25, October, 2011 (6:42)
Some of us are interested in what happens to the over-50s and what happens to the society as a whole. Others think they are here to play games.
Currawong - 24, October, 2011 (21:58)
You are about to experience, for being normal, what a number of us have gone through before. Just hold on and enjoy the ride, smile, if that is possible. There is no use taking issue with her at all.
Lorikeet - 24, October, 2011 (21:22)
Brian Storm:
What if one day we go into My Woolies and fill up our trolleys with groceries and are then told we may only pay for our purchases with a Pay Wave or Tap-n-Go card?
Getting a receipt used to be our lawful right, but now these new cards are taking that away, along with people's jobs.
Recently my Canberran son bought petrol using a credit card. Luckily he is always careful to get a receipt and account for his money. He got charged for the petrol twice. How are people going to demand their consumer rights if they are using one of these new cards and aren't getting a receipt?
This story shows how one group of people dealt with the lack of service in shops:
"Hippies in Maleny had an effective way to deal with Woolies moving in on their village. Fill the trolley with frozen goods, go to the counter, and if no one is available to serve, walk out leaving a “We won’t shop there” flyer. This results in the write off of stock, shows up as “shrinkage” and therefore reduces store profit."
I wouldn't be surprised if before long we don't all get an Australia Card which rations our access to every product and service and deducts what we have bought from our rationed store credit.
ETS - 24, October, 2011 (19:29)
Brian Storm - 24, October, 2011 (19:24)
But I am not sure what the concern is. I suppose a situation could arise where a creditor or seller refuses to accept notes and coins, but I can’t think of an example outside of those mentioned for low denomination coins. As long as the means of payment is known in advance there should not be a problem.
I guess the message is to be sure of the means of payment before entering into a transaction.
Lorikeet - 24, October, 2011 (19:14)
The above communists belong to the Far Left with the Socialist Alliance, and they like to pick on those who are far more astute than themselves, no matter what their position in the political spectrum.
The police have been ordered by the government to stop protestors from treading on the corns of their corporate mates.
We must also remember that Her Majesty, The Queen and Prince Phillip are visiting our nation this week. They received an overwhelmingly friendly reception here in Brisbane today.
The governor curtsied politely, but Communist Queen Anna Bligh (dressed appropriately in red) barely nodded her head in her direction.
ETS - 24, October, 2011 (18:58)
I would put the Greens slightly centre-left on the political spectrum, for whatever good such labels serve. Certainly not past the black stump fringes. That’s where the whacko parties live but WEG, you knew that already as a reasonable thinking Australian.
One question though – what do you mean by the “collar wearing mayor of Sydney”? As many of my garments have collars I can’t see what the relevance is. I’m sure it isn’t ridicule because you say ridicule is just plain boring.
WEG - 24, October, 2011 (17:39)
We all should have the good sense to appreciate that someone’s views may vary (some substantially) from that of our own. Disagree if you want, but constructive comment rather than a ‘gatekeepers’ vendetta. The ridicule of a particular individual is just plain boring! Reminds me of the tactics of the indian minors.
WEG - 24, October, 2011 (17:36)
Melbourne demonstrator’s tent city was cleaned out a few days ago. Those “Occupy” protestors have a valid point but the whole protest seems to be a big fizzer. Let’s see if the major shareholder group can change it’s long held stance of not directly interfering with Board Room activity. They need some backbone to see this through.
It’s time to move on to a more important and most pressing matter - to remove a PM that lied to the Aust. public, and to dismiss the most incompetent government in Aust. history, bar none. The contagion for Labor is the Greens – too freakishly left of the black stump for any reasonable thinking Australian.
Labor needs to get a backbone as well.
Helen - 24, October, 2011 (15:57)
Closeted views many times don't give an accurate view. Travelling the world does. Internet views are interesting but not as good as being there.
For those who have travelled, one realises just how lucky we are to live here in oz where we take so much for granted.
Even with some of the discussions we have had and some articles in 50 something this month where NSA is apposed to the elderly using their assets to pay for nursing home and their care etc. In other countries there is no question in this regard families are deemed responsible for their elderly after the family member's assets have dried up. I mentioned before in a previous blog.
We quibble and complain when really it is pretty good here considering how few work to pay for all those who are dependent. When changes are even mentioned, there is a scream from the ranks.
I'm not saying that I would like to see all this come here but at least I have seen what happens in many other parts of the world first hand and as recently as this year. Perhaps you are more intelligent than every other member of this blog and me, more educated than the scientists, doctors, schoolteachers and even our PM and if thinking this way makes you happy Lorakeet, then I am happy for you. I'm off to do something intelligent here in my office, cheers...
Brian Storm - 24, October, 2011 (14:38)
Realistically, there not a chance of a tax on excessive salaries for the reasons I outlined before.
Hypothetically, your suggestion would pitch two of the Oppostition's objectives against each other. One is to oppose anything the Government wants. The other is to make the flow of government revenue as small as possible to reduce the chance of a surplus budget in 12-13. Cutting the dollars is probably more important than total policy opposition so you would be more likely to get bipartisan support for no action on taxes.
So even with the hypothetical we come back to the same outcome.
Bob B's point about rejecting remuneration reports will send a message if enough shareholder do it.
Lorikeet - 24, October, 2011 (14:22)
Helen, intelligence is not measured according to the number of overseas trips you have made.
Lorikeet - 24, October, 2011 (14:20)
The police just have to do as they're told. The protestors stand in the way of corporate neo-communism becoming even more of a global reality, and so are being moved on.
Both Labor and Liberals support corporate neo-communism. No matter what they say, they will both keep allowing CEOs to compete for huge payouts, ripping off the little people to empower huge global cartels to buy and control everything.
Bob B - 24, October, 2011 (14:11)
In doing what they do they break laws and disobey lawful commands from the police. Naturally, they will be 'grappled' by the police if they do not move on. The courts will deal with those charged with offenses though most have broken laws in any case in the process of the demonstration.
Its unfortunate for the cause is a valid one but this is not the right way to do business. Having said that a few demonstrations in Tasmania in the past have been successful.
Lets all us shareholders reject Remuneration reports as a matter course until the boards take notice - the two strike rule.
ETS - 24, October, 2011 (12:55)
Brian Storm - 24, October, 2011 (12:06)
Shareholders now have some degree of influence over salary packages and bonuses through the two strikes rule but I suspect this influence will be limited unless the large institutional shareholders – insurance companies, super funds and the like – are also prepared to use their extensive voting power. I haven’t seen any sign of it yet but lets wait and see.
As for governments taxing the non-fixed parts of salary packages, it would be highly unlikely, more so in the current minority government situation. If the response to the Mining Super Profits Tax a couple of years ago is anything to go by, there would be a huge corporate funded outcry against the tax and absolutely no chance of bipartisan cooperation.
The protesters definitely have a valid point to make.
helen - 24, October, 2011 (11:23)
How many countries have you actually been to Lorakeet?...
David - 24, October, 2011 (10:33)
Robyn - 24, October, 2011 (9:45)
What do people think about the police getting tough on the protesters in Melbourne and Sydney?
Lorikeet - 24, October, 2011 (9:12)
Robyn - 24, October, 2011 (7:37)
At the risk of bursting Lorikeet's bubble and getting a further torrent of abuse, I have to say that DLP policy is not the solution to present day problems. Remember the days when Telstra had monopoly? Remember when air travel was so expensive, nationally and internationally due to lack of competition? I am against the sale of public owned utilities and companies but but would not like a return to the days of little or no competition.
Helen - 24, October, 2011 (7:09)
Ho Hum... Back to the topic before we become engulfed with all this rubbish...
Lorikeet - 23, October, 2011 (20:54)
They know very well that I tell people about my charity work and my intellect AFTER they have accused me of being a bludger or not caring about anyone, or being unintelligent.
Some of them have such bad memories, they don't even remember their own past abusive attitudes.
We don't have to like Communist Queen Juliar Gillard and we have every right to say so, without it resulting in personal attacks.
ETS - 23, October, 2011 (19:53)
Helen and Bob B have made very good points about your comment so I won't go over that ground.
I do however agree completely with your final sentence, although I doubt we mean the same thing.
Bob B - 23, October, 2011 (17:17)
Yes, Helen is right, many do loads without telling the world so. Just how many hours do seniors volunteer, you might be surprised as NSA has studied this, and many do so without seeking the accolades of others. Please think a little more laterally before launching an embarassing scolding of others.
Helen - 23, October, 2011 (16:11)
Helen - 23, October, 2011 (16:08)
There are many who do a lot and don't say anything. Lorikeet (and at least one time, yourself), at times write personal comments calling people names. She made her own playing field from what I can see.
Our PMs name is Julia not Juliar (see what I mean)...
To the Boggers -
If the sky doesn't fall in here in Oz as the Doomsters are always predicting, I hope there will be a bit of credit placed where it is due. So far we are coping well with all the downturn happening O/S. I for one hope it will stay that way. I guess only time will tell.
Cheers...
tina Namow - 23, October, 2011 (15:22)
What the protesters are doing is rising awareness that we don't have to just accept this greed. There is hope for a better future when I see these people out in the streets.
Arthur Mac - 23, October, 2011 (14:50)
ETS abused me the other day because I did not stick to the topic and said what I thought about Juliah Gillard being rude to the Queen. Well now you are all getting off the topic because the topic is not Lets All Pick On Lorikeet, it is about the demonstrators.
I get angry when I read some of this rubbish. If everyone thought as much as Lorikeet the world would be a very different place.
Helen - 23, October, 2011 (14:13)
Lorakeet should start her own political party. Any suggestions re a name?
Helen - 23, October, 2011 (13:49)
We had one stint of not having more than a few days holiday for eleven years. Still, it didn't hurt us nor our children as they learnt all along the way that they had to work and plan in order to be successful.
All the extras earned went towards education etc. The trouble today is that most people live in perpetual debt and want everything NOW.
Gone are the days when one married, moved into a garage and later built a house. I guess this has become a world trend until in my opinion many either have never learnt how to "balance the budget".
For those who needed public housing, this was still able to be bought at a very low cost over many years. I wish we would return to this for those not so well off. It would make some are bit more house proud instead of trashing what is given to them. When people own,or will one day, they take more care.
Sometimes it takes a crisis to take people back to the basics. This trend might be in store for some of the CEOs as things get worse.
I still wish more was taught re finances and living skills in our schools. It is just as important now as in yesteryear and just as important as all the new technology for the parents of the future.
Children are at home for longer and many parents handle everything for them. Some children never touch money and just say I want!
My old Grandmother used to say "You have to learn to manage one pound before you can manage many" If we substitute the pound for dollars, I think she was spot on. I always said this to my children and now I say it to my grandchildren. My children listened, I hope the grandkids do too.
Things will probably bottom out O/S but like it always does, will bounce back. It always does. The war has crippled the US as well. It must have cost them a fortune...
Lorikeet - 23, October, 2011 (12:36)
It looks as if I will have to go to a meeting of ratepayers who want to secede from Division 10 of the MBRC to join the Brisbane City Council.
I had a call from the councillor this morning. I think he needs backup to explain that most of any council's financial problems are landed on us by the states. For those who aren't aware, councils have no constitutional power and get trampled over by both state and federal governments.
ETS - 23, October, 2011 (10:48)
Writing about recent history she says “Organised crime aside, … the most ostentatious flaunting of wealth has emanated from the banking sector. As it turns out, these vast earnings and bonuses were undeserved”. “The whole merry-go-round of bonuses and performance-related pay is a sham. In almost every occupation and organisation it is almost impossible to identify the contribution made by any individual to profits and performance – complicated modern organisations all depend on teamwork and collective contributions.”
She goes on to say that Governments can still act. Gittins suggests that they could halt bonus payments in the public sector altogether. At the risk of criticism from anti-tax people, Gittins also suggests a general additional tax on the non-fixed parts of pay and salary packages. In the current political climate this would probably not go down well with the Opposition, but Governments as well as business have to take a lead to counter the acceptability of corporate greed.
There is another article in the same paper about the two-strikes rule.
Kay Kelly - 23, October, 2011 (9:39)
I just love your description of Capitalism as being "the wayward child of Democracy"! My sentiments entirely. I fervently support Democracy and its wayward, but not perfect, child Capitalism.
Lorikeet - 23, October, 2011 (9:31)
We are very lucky indeed that we have had a chance to see what has happened in Europe, and that forming an Asia/Pacific Economic Union by 2020 will only send us further down the tube.
The Carbon Tax has not passed through the Senate as yet. If everyone wants to live in a democratic nation which doesn't have billions pulled out of its economy for Redistribution, you know what we need to do.
Please email the Prime Minister, the Senators and federal MPs in your state, and threaten a revolution against a Tax on Air.
KrystalKid - 23, October, 2011 (9:18)
There is absolutely no logical reason for this farcical, unjust arrangement, yet it is what governs senior executive remuneration throughout the world. It is time for a change!
The suggestions by Bob B and Alan that shareholders should vote against the remuneration reports and hope to trigger the “two strikes rule” are very positive steps that could help to overthrow this idiotic arrangement. My wife and I now do this regularly. The large institutional shareholders – trusts, superannuation funds, etc., - are not likely to vote this way because of vested interests. So another positive step would be for members of these institutional shareholders to lobby for a change in attitude. Alan’s suggestion of joining the Australian Shareholders Association is also worthwhile. But why rely on them to use your proxy votes? Can you be sure they will vote precisely the way you want to? Why not lodge your own proxy votes?
Less blogging, more action!
Geefer - 23, October, 2011 (9:05)
Greed is the driving force of survival throughout the animal kingdom and humans have perfected it to excellence.
History shows we cycle through this wealthy takeover ever since records were kept. Ghadafi is deposed and soon he will be replaced by another group who will salt away the country's billions into their own bank accounts. Ad nausium.
Sue Donim - 23, October, 2011 (9:04)
Robyn - 23, October, 2011 (8:55)
You must be shaking in your boots being called Robyn II. One has to giggle!
Robyn - 23, October, 2011 (8:51)
It is obscene that in the USA 1% of the people control 40% of the wealth. A system that creates such inequity has to be considered to be failing. It is so absolutely crazy that the rich are not taxed more over there. I don't know what the figures are for Australia - does anyone else know? We do have better taxation, welfare and health care systems here, but nevertheless there is discontent and growing insecurity, for good reason I think. The gap between the rich and the poor is growing, CEO wages are obscene, house prices and rents are ridiculously high, student support is ridiculously low and decent wages are not earned by most until early 20's or later.
I do hope these protests are sustained and that some positive change emerges from them.
Macka113 - 23, October, 2011 (8:29)
IAN CRUICKSHANK - 23, October, 2011 (8:18)
The human being is a very sick animal. While the research programmes into the major diseases afflicting mankind are heavily funded, there is there no research into the sad condition of the human mind whereby those who can attain an advantage of wealth and power over their neighbours become paranoid at the thought of losing out or, heaven forbid, sharing.
Helen - 23, October, 2011 (7:54)
You were the one who mentioned my name in vain, again in a critical sense. You must expect me to respond, although I should make allowances I suppose. I was just curious because of your remarks on the 22/10 when I had not directed anything at you in the first place...
Kay Kelly - 23, October, 2011 (7:38)
I admit I'm confused! You are dead set against communism (as I am) but support 'economic distributism'! What on earth is this if not communism?
BTW I was astonished to learn from you (a fervent supporter) that the DLP even exists today!! I thought it had its day way back with the demise of Vince Gair. But of course, I'm only going on memory.
I still support regulated capitalism as giving the best rewards to those who are prepared to make efforts (education, work, sacrifices, risk-taking) to get ahead. But of course, like all systems, it is not perfect. It is hard to bypass human greed, where enough is still not enough.
Helen - 23, October, 2011 (7:35)
Helen - 23, October, 2011 (7:31)
If a CEO is responsible for the success in a company in a given year, a bonus is probably OK, but not the amounts that they seem to get paid. When CEOs the companies they are paid huge amounts also. There must still be a lot of money in the system for this to happen.
Perhaps more money should be paid to the investors after all it is their money (yours and mine) that enables companies to do well in the end.
I don't think demonstrating achieves a great deal in the end. There are those who behave so badly it makes all the genuine people look "stupid" and the message is lost.
I just don't support anything I don't believe in. If enough people move their money elsewhere, that's demonstration enough.
We will always have the haves and have nots. I have only ever wanted enough. Enough to live a good life and be able to travel which is my love and a bit to leave when we go. We have achieved this and I am content with that.
The Packers of this world have their problems too. Are they really that happy with their lot? Kerrie's money didn't help when he became ill (and what good is it to him now)?...
Lorikeet - 22, October, 2011 (21:14)
Lorikeet - 22, October, 2011 (21:11)
Communist states all seem to have a ruling upper class that is rich, including China. If they spread the wealth around, they wouldn't have a problem. For example, China has 1.3 billion people across 500 million families. Of those 20% or 100 million families are rich. The number of rich people in Australia is very low by comparison. The last I heard, our entire population was only 23 million.
I think Helen has a very bad memory, so it isn't worth my while trying to answer her again.
I recommend the movie: "Mao's Last Dancer", in which the dire poverty of the peasants living in the back blocks of China is compared with capitalism in the USA.
I am told that other countries are looking at the economic distributism model preferred by the DLP. There is no scope for big corporations or bankers to rule. The government is in charge, along with small businesses. The government has its own bank and no moneys are invested or held outside of our own nation.
John Hunter - 22, October, 2011 (21:01)
That is, he didn't get the extras as the company had had a downslide in profits.
He still took home a an annual salary of $1.6m.
457% weekly the average annual wage of one of their on floor employees.
This is obscene in any industry.
The banks these days aren't any different.
Ceo's get all sorts of kickbacks that the ordinary worker doesn't ever see, regardless of whether they perform or not and, then if not performing and fired. Still get a big payout!!
This has got to stop.
WEG - 22, October, 2011 (19:23)
The real estate market is a big contributor to the positive growth number of millionaires in Australia. Not hard for a property owner in Sydney to be in this group.
Asset rich but cash poor, probably!
The fact that a minority group of some infinitely small % are filthy rich, is no reason for us seniors to loose any sleep. They can’t take the money with them when they go!
Do the “Occupy” protestors have a valid point? Probably, but when you have only 30 protestors left in Martin Place, and those 400 (plus or minus 300) in Melb. have turned feral, then what’s the point.
Barbara - 22, October, 2011 (18:42)
Dorothy Hopkins - 22, October, 2011 (18:17)
Kay Kelly - 22, October, 2011 (18:07)
Now for the topic. There are a lot of good comments already on the blog. I agree that the multi-million dollar salaries for corporate excecutives are obscene. Especially when their performance is so pathetic! I'm with Bob B - share holders need to vote against the Remuneration Reports of companies that have not performed well above the average. As if the directors etc are not already paid well enough. And yes, I believe it is the Superannuation Funds who are letting us down by using their large institutional votes to support their mates getting even more obscene salaries. And I also have major problems with these 'professional directors' - all they do is sit on lots of Boards and pick up good money for doing nothing!! It is a real 'club'!!
But, while I have concerns about some aspects of corporate practices, I still think capitalism is the best system around. It does give people the opportunity to work hard, be smart and do well. But it is certainly not perfect.
My concern is that whilst many in these protests are genuine and well-meaning, they may well be hijacked by the usual 'rent-a-crowd'. These are the ones who could turn these protests into riots.
John R - 22, October, 2011 (18:03)
The ASA attends the AGM's of all the major companies, voting against the more egregious excesses.
The problem seems to be with the large institutional shareholders, (part of the cosy "old boys" and increasingly "girls" club?), who wave through the massive payouts.
Nonetheless, progress is being made. The more members the better.
John - 22, October, 2011 (16:53)
There is plenty of evidence throughout history to show that the bigger the gap between the rich and the poor then the more unstable the society becomes.
Humans do not seem to be equipped to exercise power over others, even the good guys change when they get to the top of the ladder (maybe they do not get enough oxygen up there).
It is time that the rich came to see that we all have one thing in common, we all die one day, and there seems to be no advantage in being richer than the rest on your last day.
Good on ya protestors and I hope you keep going till you achieve your goals.
Helen - 22, October, 2011 (16:38)
You said that I was discriminating against you after you mentioned disabled people. I simply asked if you had a disability as you seem to say that you had and if you did, I said it might help us understand your personality a bit better. That was all nothing more nothing less.
You ARE the one who is always attacking everyone and seem to have some kind of persecution complex as you think the whole blog is against you. No so! Some of us just don't like some of the name calling when we don't happen to agree with your view on many topics that's all
You should also think of what you say as Monitor has reminded you of on many occasions now.
Getting back on topic other bloggers! My view as mentioned once before is that "Capitalism" is not all that perfect and although we certainly don't want "Communism" in this country, there must be a half way mark.
Communism keeps people poor and without freedom. "Capitalism" also keeps many poor and allows some people to become filthy rich often at the expense of others. Look at the US at the moment who have many people who are homeless, the UK as well. There is also a huge amount of wealth there and these people don't seem to care about the others.
Communism keeps a lot of people fed and housed albeit very modestly and the wealth is spread around. Not what we want here that's for sure, but the former is not the perfect answer either. I'm not sure what is (does this make me a pagen) thinking this way? Could there be another alternative to cope better with all the people on earth now and in the future?...
Ted Crow - 22, October, 2011 (13:37)
Lorikeet - 22, October, 2011 (11:23)
The Green Pagan Carbon religion is a mechanism of wealth redistribution.
For those who don't get it (such as Helen), your perception might improve if you went out and bought Professor Tim Flannery's book. He is one of Labor's economist ghouls whose opinions rely on characters from a Pagan religion.
Rudy M - 22, October, 2011 (11:02)
You are supposed to know why?
Is your instigation, without giving a bit of substance, justified to be asked?
It's a complex network of greed, manipulations and setups, globally from banking to politics.
And, giving an appearance of hide and seek, it's labeled conspiracy theory.e.g. look at Franking system of banking system.......
Cheers.
Elizabeth Afribo - 22, October, 2011 (10:57)
Sui Ting Tse - 22, October, 2011 (10:36)
Sui Ting Tse - 22, October, 2011 (10:25)
Helen - 22, October, 2011 (10:09)
It was life changing for us and for me too. Still life is good. He is now in his 18th year. We propbably don't have as much super as we would have had but as we thought of our retirement all the way along faired reasonably well in the end and things could have been worse had we not.
It is why we are really careful now with our life savings and have moved it to a cash fund until all the rough weather in the finance market subsides. And it will, eventually things will turn around. Our Advisor did say that it could be a bit rocky for some time and we were thankful that he warned us in time.
I do think it is time for all those receiving huge bonuses as execs to take a cut and not get more. Big business has got greedy over many years now and I guess it has gone too far. I guess we will all have to watch with interest as to the progression of this current down-turn.
How lucky we are here in Oz. It must have some affect on us though, let's hope it is minimal. We are lucky to live over this side of the world and for our mining boom (which is keeping us afloat) and all living well still...
Jeff - 22, October, 2011 (9:41)
Helen - 22, October, 2011 (7:58)
It is you who insults and criticises all the other bloggers when they disagree with you. I just get annoyed when people are criticised on a personal level.
I do admire our PM. I also admire her for sticking to her guns. One could also criticise Abbott as well, but I haven't heard a thing. It is just not necessary. The criticism is not warranted and since she entered office, the party have not done anything wrong and have not been credited for all the good things that have happened which have been numerous.
You refer to people as Pagans and worse. Arthur was insulting and I found it offensive.
Think of your comments yourself before writing them and you won't cop flack from we other bloggers.I spent many years looking after people with one disability or another and now care for my husband who is a real inspiration to anyone with a disability the way he copes with all his problems.
It does help to know the circumstances re yourself though and why your comments are so twisted at times. Perhaps you don't see this.
Not one blogger would be critical of anyone receiving a pension when it is derserved. There are many people out there who are healthy and of working age who should be working and any criticism would be aimed at them only and not at the needy of this world...
Lorikeet - 22, October, 2011 (6:33)
It's hard enough to cope with the many downsides of having a disability, without horrible, non-compassionate people having a go at us. I know a man who is semi-quadriplegic. Although he does a bit of counselling of people even worse off than himself, and also sells products for charity, there are dirtbags around who have told him to get out to work!
On this blog, I have also had to tell Helen twice not to discriminate against me, and she has a husband with a distressing medical condition herself!
Lorikeet - 22, October, 2011 (6:27)
Pammy - 21, October, 2011 (22:40)
Please don't paint all welfare recipients with the same 'bludger' brush. It's not right to judge before you know their individual stories. The young mum whose husband gets killed in a car or work accident should be looked after; the middle aged guy who lost his job because the company went broke, the same, and me who went from working 38 hours a week to being injured at work which uncovered a medical condition I didn't know I had. I went from thinking I had possible 10 -15 years work left to being on a disability pension to help preserve my standard of living. I can reassure you which one I would prefer to have. A wage will always pay more than the pension. Yes I agree there are some lazy no hopers (the minority)but it is also a great safety net for those of us who have the rug pulled out from underneath us without warning. And we still circulate money the same as everyone else just not as much of it as the multi-millionaires, plus many of us are volunteers to fill the gaps of payed services.
Bob B - 21, October, 2011 (21:33)
Do you ever think of the people providing the service - they may have a valid reason.
Lorikeet - 21, October, 2011 (20:19)
Today I did a bit of shopping at Woolworths in the Brisbane CBD, and yet again I was asked whether or not I required a receipt. So I told the young man serving me that consumer law requires a receipt to be given to all customers. He called the supervisor over, and I was told that receipts were not automatically to customers for purchases totalling less than $30. When I asked him why that was the store policy, he said: "Because it saves paper." The shop assistant then said that a lot of customers reject receipts or just toss them aside.
We really need to something about this, because if the goods need to returned for some reason, no receipt equals no consumer rights.
I'm glad to say that the majority of customers in post offices are rejecting self-service, but they are making it harder due to a long wait on a single queue, when there used to be at least 2.
When an employee asked me to use the self-service to pay my Rates Notice, I announced fairly loudly: "No, self-service takes away people's jobs."
I always get my NSA e-newsletter during Thursday night, so that it's accessible on Friday mornings. If it doesn't arrive, skin and hair is going to fly.
Bob B - 21, October, 2011 (19:23)
Stretching things a bit but I got my email last night. Maybe we are graded as to naughtiness - just wait a while for yours!!!
Lorikeet - 21, October, 2011 (18:57)
Lorikeet - 21, October, 2011 (18:39)
Thanks for the links, but not for the insult.
I think the huge payouts are rewards for being the most scheming crooks.
Helen:
Please leave Arthur Mac alone. Anyone who actually likes Julia Gillard belongs to a minority group.
When we saw her on national television giving us her Carbon Tax pitch, I thought she behaved remarkably like the Queen when she gives her Christmas address to the nation. This turned me off just as much as her Pagan fairytale.
Doug:
I have had responses from local, state and federal MPs. Sometimes it takes a while to get a reply and sometimes it's a standard letter sent to a list of people. Federal MPs in particular have a huge number of constituents, and most elected politicians work like dogs 7 days a week.
The standout in my area is the local councillor, who answers email very quickly and is very good at getting things done in short order.
Unfortunately residents in his electorate wish to secede from the Moreton Bay Regional Council to join the Brisbane City Council, because we are paying rates that are much too high, with restricted access to pensioner rebates. The councillor certainly doesn't deserve this at all.
Eliza:
The government brings in so-called Guest Workers instead of lifting wages to attract Australian employees. Workers should get a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. The USA isn't the only country where appropriate wage increases are being deliberately suppressed to provide a Slave Labour Trade to corporates.
WEG - 21, October, 2011 (17:29)
Elizabeth - 21, October, 2011 (17:09)
I understand this movement started from the students in USA who are so burdened with the equivilant of our HECS that they have a very poor standard of living - it was a suggestion that if these same students could be granted some financial leniancy they would then be able to spend more money and in doing so would live a better quality life as well as helping the country out of it doldrums with their spending.
Why would the young people of today not want to earn more than is generally offered when they see bankers, CEO's etc failing to reach margins and still getting millions in so called bonuses - its a joke - and the joke is on hard working people who only want to earn enough money to live a reasonable well fed life in their own homes and to be able support their family.
We all, including those on obscene million dollar payouts need to get back to earning a decent living and stop worrying about accumulating wealth. How much more oxygen can a millionaire breath than an honest working person on a normal living wage how does that much money help with the normal process of just living?
But of course these protestors are going to be branded welfare rabble - never mind that they might be right - never let right get in the way of the truth about greed.
Bob B - 21, October, 2011 (13:55)
I have been rejecting the Remuneration Reports for years now and also do not support directors who have more than two directorships. Maybe one is enough and this might be my future approach. Unfortunately its a club and they have their own lifestyle and attitudes. Its really up to the voters to change this. The 'Two Strike Rule' can facilitiate this. Shareholders need to think more about the outcomes of their actions.
Alan - 21, October, 2011 (11:25)
The 'Two strikes Rule' has the outcome as to bring Company Director boards to their senses where they are seeking your approval to increase their (already obscene) annual salaries and number of share options.
Two consecutive votes of more than 1/4 of voters against the Remuneration Report spills the Board.
Please, please vote AGAINST the adoption of all 'Remuneration Reports' on any Company voting slips appearing in their Annual Report.
The Superannuation industry in Australia WILL NOT do this due to their own vested interests.
Jim - 21, October, 2011 (10:38)
The "Alex" cartoon strip in the Financial Review obviously has some inside knowledge of how the Bankers work.
Alan - 21, October, 2011 (9:57)
The greed of Company Directors paying themselves 10, 100 or even 1,000 times an ordinary person's wages are dispicable and morally indefensible. Plus they are the very who can afford to pay Accountants and Financial Advisors how to 'minimise' their personal tax to almost 0%.
No stooge is worth a $14M annual pay-packet lest of all another useless Bank CEO surely......
Hopefully this movement will focus on this as a major issue for urgent change.
Eliza Ryan-Bowley - 21, October, 2011 (9:50)
Bob B - 21, October, 2011 (8:41)
I emailed my local Federal MP last year about the way in which the Queensland government had not then appropriated even the federal funds (hundreds of millions) provided for the M1 upgrade here on the Gold Coast. He actually called me from Canberra and we had a 20 minute chat. They do respond some times but then I met him at an NSA function and see him periodically about town.
My local councellor ignores emails that are rationally and calmly put. I did catch up with him-face-to-face and that was interesting but nothing has happened. That one concerned the way a local water/bird park carrying his name has been left ragged with unwanted reeds growing rampant.
Doug Richards - 21, October, 2011 (8:11)
It seems that governments have gone all the way with the "free market" mantra. Privatized electricity, gas, phone you name it. What is required is a few strategic government enterprises.
Gone are the days when Labor was controlled by the unions and the unions has significant membership.
Tried writing to your local member of parliament lately? Don't waste your time you won't get a reply and even if you did it would be some piece of photocopied rubbish.
Disempowerment has lead to the unrest.
Helen - 21, October, 2011 (7:31)
It is sad that money is such a ruler of everything and anything.
The earliest readings in regard to royalty show how babies (boys and girls) were betrothed at birth for money and power all over Europe.
Look how some families behave when a parent/relative departs this world. It's a time when we get to see the true colours of those closest to us. It is the same thing at a different level in my opinion.
In regard to Arthur's comments re our PM "u* y***s" Our PM followed the instructions given to her which had choice. She was told she could do what ever she was comfortable with. Her dignified bow was OK!
Would you ever have anything nice to say about her (I think not!). I wonder if you would have done better or just stammered and stuttered in your nervousness?
I look forward to Abbott's meeting with her today to see if he bows low enough. What a load of rubbish! Sorry to get off topic so early everyone...
Jane Turnbull - 21, October, 2011 (7:21)
Real wages in the US have largely stagnated, or gone backwards in the last decade, forcing more people to use credit to cover their day to day expenses, including housing. This unsustainable credit load then crumbled as the credit swap packages which supported it moved to higher interest rates. Result? Crash.
High income earners were largely unscathed, as their much larger discretionary spend more than compensated for any losses.
It's a bit rich (pardon the pun) for those higher income earners to ask those most affected to carry the can for the appalling loss of market integrity. Of course they are angry.
Recent research has shown that the happiest countries in the world, are those where the gap between the richest and the poorest citizens, is the least. http://www.livescience.com/14638-income-inequality-costing-americans-happiness.html
And at risk of starting Lorikeet off on yet another rant, she is a bit behind the news :)
http://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/The-companies-control-world-yahoo7financewp-3418126660.html?x=0
Lorikeet - 21, October, 2011 (7:02)
I really enjoyed your comments.
Would you agree with feminist Eva Cox that Superannuation is a form of welfare for the rich, and an excellent tax dodge as well?
Do you have a plan of action to bring the banks to heel?
What do you think the financial "day of reckoning" in EEU nations will entail?
Norm:
I think the slogan: "Debt is Slavery" is spot on.
What we are seeing here in Australia is the major parties providing slave labour to corporates. I have seen it in Aged Care since Kevin Rudd decided bringing in visa holders was a better option than paying Aussie workers a decent wage.
As we found out fairly recently, Labor is quite happy to allow corporates to collect large bonds from aged care residents and return none of the profits to workers.
We have seen the same thing happening on the land with the axing of penalty rates and the importation of "Guest Workers" from the Pacific Islands.
While I support a robust immigration program to support an aging population, all Labor seems to want to do is create racial and religious tensions, and drive visa holders who cannot afford to pay their bills back out of the country.
At the same time as Labor is aiding and abetting the rip off of all Australians by the corporates/banks, shareholders and superannuants are receiving a fairly dreadful return on their investments as well.
The government is certainly in a position to change this parlous state of affairs, firstly by giving Aussie workers a pay increase and ensuring visa holders are paid equal wages.
If we look at the Topic List for this blog, we will see that even the name of last week's topic has been axed from the list. Would anyone like to hazard a guess or give an opinion on why that might be?
Gerald - 20, October, 2011 (23:53)
The Weimar republic and earlier 'bubbles' apart, more recent major financial crises seem rooted in the USA: 1929, 1987, 2007. The latter-day schemes created to generate personal wealth have debilitated some financial institutions while depositing unimaginable amounts of money in the pockets of a select few. Today we talk blythely in billions when only a few years ago mere millions made us gasp. The overall effect is to badly skew the distribution of wealth and the unemployed are feeling this bitterly. It also dimishes the value of money, as anyone living on their superannuation is now finding.
Democarcy is declared to be a universal right. Democracies therefore are bohoved to ensure a fair distribution of wealth for effort to ensure democracy survives.
Bucephelas - 20, October, 2011 (22:58)
Thanks to GW Bush the US budget expenses are 23% of GNP and revenue is 15%. The deficit is greater each year than the total Australian deficit will be in 2013! The very rich pay a smaller percentage of income in tax than the middle class! When Obama says the rich should pay more it is called class warfare. But until rich Americans pay their share of tax the USA has a problem.
In Europe annual deficits are huge with little prospect of them coming down. The lack of policy flexibility caused by the Euro contributes to the problem and I cannot see the Euro as we know it being around in 5 years. There are 4 countries which are big problems but most have problems. Creating a $3 Trillion fund will merely postpone the day of reckoning unless they balance their budgets.
Millions have lost their houses, housing markets have collapsed everywhere and we have a financial crisis. While Bankers and the very rich did well out of the system other suffered. No wonder people are demonstrating at this manifestation of excessive greed and want the system changed.
Lorikeet - 20, October, 2011 (22:57)
Lorikeet - 20, October, 2011 (22:56)
Australian citizens rejected a similar proposal for our neck of the woods around 30 years, because they knew we would be crucified if lumped in with primarily third world nations.
Yes, we said a resounding "NO!", but the government ignored us.
Chairman Rudd-Zedong thinks he will be ruling an Asia/Pacific Economic Union by 2020, after Labor/Greens have taken us all to the cleaners with a Carbon Tax requiring us to purchase $57.9 billion worth of carbon credits from the third world.
I think we know where the money is coming from.
Norm - 20, October, 2011 (22:28)
In Australia the difference between the "haves" and the "have nots" is not as disparate as in most other countries, employment levels are relatively high, and most home owners have done unreasonably well until recent months so there appears to be less general community support.
But greed is not limited to corporate greed - there are plenty of people who I work with who can't wait to retire so everyone else can support them - even though they would not to be sacked if they continued working - a different example of greed but still relevant (think of Greece, Italy, Spain as examples).
Yes remuneration is too high for practically all boards and CEOs. Some do deserve larger payouts - e.g. the CEO who takes a company on the brink of receivership into a profitable business - but these exceptional people are a one in ten thousand.
The Occupy Brisbane group have a sign up saying - "Debt is slavery". The majority of people only get into debt from greed - want this, want that, simple: increase your loans (rather than paying off debt) - so how is that a valid argument? And yes there are people who through misfortune or bad luck get into huge financial mess - but they are in the minority.
Having observed the Occupy Brisbane group, I don't think that most of them understand the issues. Based on their signs and conversations I have heard, they appear to be protesting for the want of something better to do.
Many people overseas certainly have legitimate complaints with the the government handouts to banks etc, high levels of unemployment compounded by poor government assistance, huge CEO payouts, poor government stewardship of the economy. and inept or corrupted governments.
Tom Fletcher - 20, October, 2011 (22:09)
Tom S - 20, October, 2011 (21:51)
Robyn - 20, October, 2011 (21:45)
"The more you work, the more you earn".
The problem with that Val, is that some work a lot to earn little and some work little to earn a lot.
Val - 20, October, 2011 (21:29)
Stop the handouts and tax everyone at one rate, the more you work the more you earn...simple.
Robyn - 20, October, 2011 (21:28)
Perhaps I am. While some are deliberating this all important point, others are talking about unions, greens, windmills and socialists. Gee, I thought the protesters were going on about corporate greed. Talk about screwing the question!!
I am all for people power. It's about time for the scream of "enough"! Will commitment last through the Northern Hemisphere winter? We will see.
I hope this is the beginning of something big, important, change making!
ETS - 20, October, 2011 (20:42)
Arthur, at the risk of being called a gatekeeper, which in small minds is something worse than Hitler and Stalin combined, may I suggest you must have set a record for going off topic this early in the cycle. Please share with us your thoughts on the actual question.
WEG, well done for linking the discussion topic yet again back to your dislike of the Government. Is there no evil you will not lay at the feet of Rudd and Gillard? Your opinion of the NBN is just that, nothing more. Your simplistic point 2 on the cause of the GFC is hardly socialist policy, however you try to wrap it. It was greed my friend, pure and simple. Greed in selling something at such an inflated price that the bubble had to burst eventually. Greed occurs in all political philosophies. We would not be human if it did not. We usually call it self interest to soften it.
I agree with Bob, Dieter and, yes, Lorikeet, the protesters have every reason to vent their rage. I share Dieter’s concerns about what can be done about crazy remuneration packages and I can only hope the “Two Strikes Rule” brings some strength to the shareholders. We wait to see.
Charlie - 20, October, 2011 (20:22)
Any salary over 100 times the average in the company should be taxed at 50%.
WEG - 20, October, 2011 (19:42)
Point No.1.
What’s the difference with say the NBN chairman, $2 million base salary, plus bonuses. The network has less than 10% success rate in the roll out. A real failure by any Corporate measure.
There are $ billions of funds flow to Union bodies and the Greens via Solar / Windmills / Industry Superannuation / Construction / NBN. Which payments are more dubious? Our tax / Debt is being siphoned off to satisfied the minority groups – Union operated entities, Greens and independents
Point No. 2.
As I understand it (very simplistic view), the Wall Street crash was a result of US Government socialist policy and sponsorship of public housing. Fannie May & Freddie Mac were the private corp. vehicles used to secure mortgages but when inflated US house property values crashed, so did the securities. These securities were on sold to the world, hence the contagion.
Europe is another basket case where Greece (for example), the outflows and generous Govn. guaranteed pensions payments far exceed the country’s tax income. It’s a welfare country. Then you’ve got Italy, Ireland and Spain to follow.
Public (Govn) and Private / Corp debt is something like a partnership. One cannot do without the other. To condemn one in isolation is just not right.
Arthur Mac - 20, October, 2011 (18:34)
Bob B - 20, October, 2011 (17:23)
Dieter B - 20, October, 2011 (17:11)
The way business responded to the GFC should have taught everyone a lesson, but big business has not shown any sign of learning anything. The ones who suffer most are those who can least afford it. Lorikeet and Bob both make good points about that so I won't repeat them.
I don't know what the answer is. Governments cannot set wage limits for the private sector. It would be laughed out of court if it tried. Rules for a stronger voice for shareholders on remunerations might be a way forward but I don't expect any changes quickly.
Sorry to sound so gloomy about it.
Bob B - 20, October, 2011 (16:11)
The performance criteria for these people has been rigged for years for maximum reward for average not above average performance.
This one touches a nerve!!!
Bob B - 20, October, 2011 (16:09)
How can a CEO award himself a huge increase (millions) and then immediately hold off his employees from at least a CPI adjustment in wage negotiations. What a wart of a human being!!!
Why have CEOs income increased at multiples of what the average workers increases have been over many many years? Easy, because they can and have been doing it under the guise of 'if you want the best people you have to pay them the going rate'. Balderdash, its wanten greed. The performance criteria for these people have been rigged for years for maximum reward for not average not above average performance.
I believe and have stated in earlier topics that nobody is worth more than, say, ten times the average employee for the industry. If that is $100,000 then $1m is acceptable not the $15 and $20 millions we read about and $100,000 salary/package is well above average for most industries.
Where a man/woman has developed something and sold it to make a lot of money - he has earned it and taken the risks associated with the process. A CEO and the board are just employees who do not wear this burdon and are not worth anywhere near the quantums of the entrepreneur.
Its high time shareholders held the board to account at Annual Meetings and rejected the Remuneration Reports when voted upon. I have a number of shares and have not supportted one Remuneration Report for about the last eight years. Its a small protest but if more shareholders did that universally, boards would have to take notice.
Lorikeet - 20, October, 2011 (15:16)
For those who haven't yet seen the movie: "Capitalism: A Love Story", I would suggest trying to borrow it from the video store. It will give you an insight into how and why global financial crises are occurring, and who the beneficiaries are.
At the same time, ordinary citizens end up paying 2 or 3 times as many fees, taxes, tolls and charges to make up the deficit that used to be collected by government, at the same time as being ripped off with corporate charges for an increasingly long list of utilities and services.