Door-to-door sales

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06 Oct

Door-to-door sales

06, Oct, 2011 (12:44 PM)
National Seniors says door-to-door marketers for electricity companies may be targeting the elderly and vulnerable, using deceptive tactics to get them to switch providers and sign contracts.

Has a door-to-door salesperson pressured, or deceived you into signing a contract to switch electricity providers?

Do you think there should be tighter regulations governing the methods they use?

Disclaimer: The views expressed in these blogs are not necessarily those of National Seniors Australia. This blog is moderated and any content deemed inappropriate by the administrator will be removed, including comments that are offensive or discriminatory; libellous or defamatory; breach copyright, unless we have the owner’s permission to use it; or contain personal or commercially confidential material. The use of this blog to broadcast overtly party-political messages is also prohibited. Bloggers are urged to refrain from personal attacks. Any personal details shared here are public and can be found on internet searches.

This blog has now closed.

Comments (144)

Robyn - 13, October, 2011 (13:51)

Correction: perpetuated should have been perpetrated.
Lorikeet - 13, October, 2011 (13:13)

This morning I asked the Moderator to let you go at it hammer and tongs, so everyone would know what immature hypocrites you are.

Keep going with it, won't you?
Lorikeet - 13, October, 2011 (13:10)

As usual, we have the low life of the blogosphere sticking together against any opponent of their fairytales.
Robyn - 13, October, 2011 (12:02)

Not to worry ETS. One thing Lorikeet has taught us all is that: there is abuse which is abuse (perpetuated by others), and there is abuse which is not abuse (perpetuated by her). This is an example of superior reasoning, so I dare not question it.
Robyn - 13, October, 2011 (11:49)

Currawong,

Good point. Could our lemming be scheming some dastardly plot to euthanase us oldies to provide meat for the masses?
ETS - 13, October, 2011 (11:48)

"I will say that Robyn is a naive, extremely bitchy, Left Wing fruit cake".

This statement was in Lorikeet's message at 10:43 this morning. Somehow on some strange out-of-this-world scale of acceptability Lorikeet does not consider this comment to be insulting or abusive.

It says more about the author of those words than it does about the subject.
Currawong - 13, October, 2011 (11:31)

Robyn

I think 'Lemming' would be better than 'Lorikeet'. Can't you just imagine her rushing towards the cliff shouting 'come on everyone, follow me, its alright because I have intelligence and the superior attributes to lead you mindless lot'.
ETS - 13, October, 2011 (11:09)

The debate was not gagged Lorikeet, that is just more of the nonsense you would expect from Barnaby. The debate was longer than the debates on Work Choices and the decision to invade Iraq, neither of which were discussed in election campaigns. Just sour grapes from Barnaby because the stalling tactics had to fail eventually.

There was nothing undemocratic or improper about the elected Parliament passing the Clean Energy Future Bills yesterday. You will get your chance to pass judgement on the Government in the next election, due around October/November 2013.
Lorikeet - 13, October, 2011 (11:03)

http://www.barnabyjoyce.com.au/Newsroom/Speeches/SenateSpeeches/tabid/72/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/1395/Speech-on-Carbon-Tax-Legislation-Oct-11-2011.aspx
Lorikeet - 13, October, 2011 (11:01)

http://www.barnabyjoyce.com.au/Newsroom/Speeches/SenateSpeeches/tabid/72/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/1398/Speech-on-the-gagging-of-debate-on-the-carbon-tax-laws-by-the-Greens-12-Oct-2011.aspx
Lorikeet - 13, October, 2011 (10:50)

Robyn has only entered the blogosphere fairly recently. I have been blogging for 8-9 years, and was chosen to moderate a blog a few months ago.

Fortunately I don't generally have to deal with rabid Labor/Greens supporters and other cruel people, who have clearly lost the plot some time back.
Lorikeet - 13, October, 2011 (10:32)

We won't have to wait very long to experience the economic impact a Carbon Tax will have on Australia.

I'm fairly certain the Global Masters (bankers) who have invaded and corrupted the United Nations have issued Julia Gillard with the following ultimatum:

"Either you tax your people to the eyeballs and send us the cash for redistribution, or instead of continuing to allow the global financial situation to teeter on the brink of a Global Winter, we will take another 20-40% of EVERYONE'S superannuation."

(But don't worry, they intend to get a much larger whack of the nest egg later on.)

Even the doubters in our midst are well aware that another GFC has been teetering and tottering close to the cliff edge for months now.

And why, you might ask, are they only picking on Australians?

Answer: When you wish to bring the whole world down to the lowest common denominator so that banks can rip everyone off and rule them, you must first give the only remaining successful western nation both a financial and social thumping.

The main reason we are doing better than other developed nations is that most of them have already been "milked" as if they are "cash cows" in an economic union.

As we all know, Kevin Rudd wants an Asia/Pacific Economic Union by 2020, after the previous 5 to 8 years have been spent decimating Australia and empowering third world nations through the purchase of carbon credits.

Wayne Swan has repeatedly told us that this is the Asian Century. This means that he supports the rise of China. China has 1.3 billion people across 500 million families, of which 100 million families are already wealthy. If they spread their own enormous wealth around, even peasants would be purchasing expensive jewellery without any help from anyone.
Robyn - 13, October, 2011 (10:30)

Lorikeet keeps saying that "the Moderator should do a short course in Blog moderating" which is insulting to our moderator.

Lorikeet should look around at other blogs, for example:

http://www.the punch.com.au/articles/happy-carbon-tax-day/

which are energetic, hard hitting and interesting.

If she wants to dominate the blog strands with her own repetitive, extreme right-wing, nutty views, to the degree that she does, then she can surely expect to get a large amount of hard-hitting response. This is how many blogs work.

The argument that she "reserves the right to retaliate" is nonsense. Lorikeet does not hold back from launching her own attacks left, right and centre. For example, she began her attack on me in this strand with her last sentence at 9 Oct (9:55) with no provocation from me.

I think Lorikeet wants the NSA blogs to be a space for her own grandstanding, combined with desire that we all be in awe of her and learn from her. THIS IS NOT REALISTIC!

Again, I ask NSA to stop wiping our blogs. They might be quirky but they are interesting, energetic and representative of an intelligent, robust, older generation. If some of Lorikeet's more outlandish and prejudicial views are being challenged, there is no reason for NSA to be embarrassed by them.
Robyn - 13, October, 2011 (9:11)

Bob B,

Regarding forests. I saw an item on TV recently whereby trees in forests are being measured for their carbon content. Large companies are buying thousands of hectares of carbon credit in these trees to offset their carbon outputs. Thus, carbon taxes can help to preserve our forests as trees converted to carbon credit cannot be cut down.
Robyn - 13, October, 2011 (8:55)

Kay,

Your comment: "So why is it necessary for supporters of a carbon tax to always attack those who disagree with them as 'climate change deniers', 'scaremongers', those who do not understand science, and much worse?"

You have described your very good reasons for being sceptical about climate change without fear mongering. I have respect for those who have genuine doubts based on arguments such as you present and can certainly agree to disagree. However, you would surely have to admit that public figures such as Tony Abbott, Lord(?) Monckton (a laughing stock in the UK) and Alan Jones have been scaremongering and lying to create hysterical reaction, hostility and divisiveness. The bottom line, (as you also pointed out), is that should the 'deniers' be right and climate change is either not occurring, or is occurring but is not man made, we will still all benefit from cleaning up our polluting actions on this planet. Nothing will be lost.

Monitor,

Thank you for your excellent "last post" at 12 Oct (23:16). I do wish you would reconsider. Who will take over the nut counting?
Bob B - 13, October, 2011 (8:44)

Kay Kelly, your 6:30 is good thinking. I support the carbon tax as a step in the right direction as we do need to reduce the polution we create. As you say the jury is out on man made carbon dioxide and its influence on the climate. Time will tell, maybe.

I do have a mild concern about the effectivity of the tax and its planed follow-on schemes. Hopefully, it will be more than Lorikeet suggests and will be a useful tool but many years need to pass before we can judge this. And, yes, as you say we should be doing something to preserve the Earth's lungs - our forrests.

Not only do we need to tackle carbon dioxide but the other polutants and harmful substances we produce as well. I am alarmed at the number of food additives we have taken almost for granted for years and the way they slowly trickle into society to find now that harmful effects are beginning to surface. As much energy as we put into carbon needs to focused here as well.
Brian Storm - 13, October, 2011 (8:05)

In response to Wanda - 11, October, 2011 (21:32), I don't know what I wrote to offend you. If you would like to expand on your ideas without the name calling perhaps we can discuss it.
Lorikeet - 13, October, 2011 (7:15)

Kay Kelly:

You need to pay closer attention to the number of times I am being abused by these people, which has been going on for months. Until the Moderator does a short course in Blog Moderation, this rubbish is going to continue, and I'm going to reserve my right to retaliate.

I am opposed to both Nuclear Fission and Nuclear Fusion being used in reactors. New earthquake zones can arise at any time, and the Japanese experience has clearly proven that nuclear energy is much too dangerous and has far reaching, devastating effects.

These are not clean technologies. As we know, radiation creates gene mutations and cancers. It also generates too much heat for mere mortals to control. The fallout from just one meltdown is far too great.

I think the government should invest in Clean Coal Technologies. I have never been opposed to cleaning up pollution, but a Tax on Air has nothing to do with the environment at all.

I care about what happens to our nation, its people and its children, in particular. I know that global banks have an agenda to screw all of us over. I have known this ever since superannuation became compulsory in the early 1990s.
Kay Kelly - 13, October, 2011 (6:38)

(Cont)

So you should be able to see that it is possible to have intelligent concerns about the implementation of a Carbon Tax. So why is it necessary for supporters of a Carbon Tax to always attack those who disagree with them, and label them as 'climate change deniers', 'scaremongers', those who do not understand science, and much worse? So please, let's agree to disagree without labeling and name-calling. For me, I can see both sides of the debate. Only time will tell.

Wow! we sure have changed topic this time!
Kay Kelly - 13, October, 2011 (6:30)

Lorikeet is a great example of someone who very happily resorts to insults and labels to attack those who disagree with her. But she is not alone.

I have a scientific background but have yet to be convinced that climate change is unduly influenced by man's activities, let alone caused by these activities. That the climate continues to change - always has done - is not a surprise. The causes are varied and complex. Not all scientists endorse an anthropogenic cause of climate change. Maybe there is a link, maybe not, and if so what is that link? I have been around long enough in science to have been aware of theories that were 'a given' at the time, yet have been proven in time to be an inaccurate interpretation of the data. So time will tell.

To reduce our reliance on fossil fuels is indeed laudable, and in fact a 'no brainer' given the non-renewable nature of it (and its atmosphere polluting aspect). I look forward to a future where we have a greater range of power sources, including nuclear. If a Carbon Tax or ETS facilitates this, then maybe it will be worth it. My fear is that the Carbon Tax will produce little more than additional public servants at the expense of Australia's trade competitiveness. Given the current economic climate, I doubt many other countries will introduce ETS schemes for some time yet. And how much attention and action is being given to the ongoing wanton destruction of the world's forests - the Earth's lungs? Plus, even if certain countries commit to an ETS, how honest will they be in applying their scheme? And, Europe's experience in carbon trading has shown that it is a new area for organised crime (recent international police conference).
Lorikeet - 13, October, 2011 (6:22)

I have previously explained what I meant regarding a "communist", after I was continually abused for not doing so.

As soon as I put in the effort, I was abused again for being "off topic".

For others to repeatedly accuse me of having a mental health problem is completely objectionable. It adds nothing to a debate, other than to tell us they have no useful counter argument to present.

Those who argue that Monitor is not a cold-blooded reptile whose main objective is to bean-count the comments of those who don't agree with him, don't live in the real world.

Yesterday I bumped into a highly intelligent young doctor I have known for years, and asked him what he thought about a Carbon Tax. Here is his answer:

"A Carbon Tax has nothing to do with the environment. It is only a mechanism to redistribute wealth."

It really is a sad day when people from a seniors group are so easily sucked into a deliberate ploy to rob us all through this grossly undemocratic process.

A couple of years down the track, this blog will be filled with apologies, after enough egg has dripped off certain very abusive (if naive) faces.

In the meantime, let us all wait and see how long it is before the government passes a Voluntary Euthanasia Bill, and then quickly starts terminating the elderly without their consent.

Then where will your superannuation nest egg (or whatever still remains of it) go?
Lorikeet - 13, October, 2011 (6:07)

I only feel ashamed to belong to an organisation that allows habitual abusers to scuttle about unchecked.

This blog is a very poor advertisement for Labor/Greens supporters.
Monitor - 12, October, 2011 (23:16)

Pammy [21.19] has got it in one.
Permit me a farewell posting
With the Clean Energy Future Bills passed we can forget the doomsayer’s hysteria and look at the facts.
Until a cap and trade scheme starts in 2016 there is now a tax on Carbon di-oxide emissions by the biggest 1000 emitters, starting at $23 a tonne. The impact on prices will be 0.7% c.f. with 2.3% for the GST. The government will compensate some industries and 90% of households get something. Unlike the Howard GST Medicare rebates and higher payments to private schools where the top 20% got 80% of the benefits, Labor is over compensating those earning under $25,000 and compensating those under $80,000.
Mr Abbott’s alternative taxes people to compensate polluters and will have no effect. the Labor scheme taxes polluters and recompenses those on the lower levels. Industries which find less carbon intensive solutions for their power will save on tax. That is the intended aim of putting a price on Carbon.
It is a start to changing our position as the world’s Carbon di-oxide highest emitter. It will be a gradual process but business can now plan and act. World wide Action is needed to avoid disastrous climate change. We can now without hypocrisy urge other countries to increase their current efforts. We can get in at the ground level on new technology and clean energy. History will remember the doomsayers with bemusement. They will have a good laugh at WEG’s and Lorikeet’s views [if they can access them!] as they survey their large solar lit house, contemplate their high tech and high paid job and throw another unrationed steak onto the BBQ.
Mr Abbott says he will repeal the bills. Campaigning to reduce the tax free threshold back from $18,000 to $6,000, to take away tax concessions of $303 a year from over half the population, to increase taxes $8 Billion dollars a year to compensate polluters looks like a kite that will not fly.
Dr No aka Tony Abbott will have said no once too often.
IanMelb - 12, October, 2011 (21:58)

Hi Lorikeet Still dribbling are we. It did not suprise me when you said "It should be fairly clear to anyone reading this blog that nearly all of the nasty comments are aimed at me..." "Some cannot even spell my name." I sure they do it on purpose to stir you up. Doesn't it ever occur to you that you are so isolated from reality that you are clealy a nutter. From memory you have been living off our tax's for so long that we should have the right to send you to a re-education camp.
IanMelb - 12, October, 2011 (21:45)

What a great day for Australia. The Carbon Tax has passed through the H of reps. Not only do I look forward to less pollution but the loathing and bile coming from people who have opposed it. As one of the 9 out of ten who will be compensated I look forward to the extra dollars in my pocket.
Pammy - 12, October, 2011 (21:32)

PS Lorikeet,I DO knit for the homeless, premmie babies, cancer victims and the under previleged and have done so since I was a child.
pammy - 12, October, 2011 (21:24)

My last blog written while tired and should have been proof read.Should read refugee camps not games. If only they were games!! Please read over any other obvious mistakes.
Pammy - 12, October, 2011 (21:19)

Lorikeet I'm sad for you,that you criticize so many for their opinions but do not realise that by your very comments you are labelling yourself as being politically narrow minded. By the way, I am not narrow minded either politically, culturally or religiously. I have my own political views and strong religious convictions which neither I push on others but life my life by to show by example. During my teaching I worked with children who had disabilities (intellectual physical and emotional), some had come from abusive families(drugs, alcohol and physical) or their families have escaped war or drought and sat in refugee games for years as well as the average happy Aussie kids. I treated all of these children and their families with respect,understanding and most of all love. Without that no lessons were going to be learnt. I didn't teach tolerance, I taught acceptance. We are who we are and we shouldn't have to change just to please others. Smile and be happy that we live in a democracy where you can write the things we all do.
Lorikeet - 12, October, 2011 (20:11)

Tonight I'm sure I will be dreaming about a pallet of very thick bricks.

Thanks everyone for showing the world (and our new blogger, Dieter) exactly the type of people who support a Tax on Air.

And not one offer of help with knitting for the homeless and destitute, or the food aid either ....
Monitor - 12, October, 2011 (19:35)

I trust that Liarkeet will explain to us what she means by communist. Is it albanian, stalinist, Chinese, Vietnamese, yugoslav etc etc communist or does she use it as a term of abuse or in some Gnostic sense that only she would understand?
And shame on all you green Socialist Communist Atheist leftwing lunatic ghoulish nongs rejoicing over the Carbon tax which will lead to higher prices, rationing low wages, tiny houses, no meat and Euthanasia [on second thoughts it wont be meatless as we could eat the people euthansed]. Your posts have negated all of the hard work by the bird brained Liarkeet for although she is now up to 31 posts of 114 her percentage has dropped to 27 in the latest nut count.
Robyn - 12, October, 2011 (19:31)

Good to have you back ETS.
ETS - 12, October, 2011 (18:30)

I agree with Lorikeet’s statement some time ago (shame the blogs get wiped) that making fun of other people’s names shows you have lost the intellectual argument, or words to that effect.

Actually I don’t believe most people who opposed the Emissions Trading Scheme (great initials by the way) would ever have voted Labor. I suspect many people who voted Labor did so despite Gillard’s statement, not because of it. But we will never, ever know about it unless we have a Star Trek time warp and go back to 2010 to find out. In any case, if we can do that there are more important things to sort out last year.

Just because you don’t like the make up of the Parliament does not mean it is not democratically elected Lorikeet. I assume you voted so you had the same chance as the rest of us and if you didn’t vote then you have no reason to complain. If you have an argument with the media about the coverage given to fringe parties, take it up with them.

Where did you find out about your MP allegedly giving $300K to the Greens? Was it over the back fence or did you overhear gossip in the supermarket? If you have any evidence to support your gossip I’m sure the Murdoch press would be very interested.

It really is good to be back. I really missed all thefun.
WEG - 12, October, 2011 (18:30)

The legislation passed today by Labor (as distinct from Labour) is inconsequential in as much it’s just another tax, another tax lever to pull & similar to GST. We don’t need to loose any sleep just yet. However, our senior group will all cop it in the end despite some immediate relief promised by Labor as the handouts are only short term relief (better than nothing!). We will all need to return to the money trough in 1 – 2 years to beg for another handout to pay our power bills etc. Furthermore...........hang on, I need to answer the door bell – it must be a door-to-door marketer for an electricity company that’s targeting me AGAIN.
Lorikeet - 12, October, 2011 (18:07)

I'm sure Mr Emissions Trading Scheme knows very well that if Julia Gillard had told the people she would bring in a Carbon Tax, she would have been out on her ear in 2010, along with at least half of her communist lunatics.
Lorikeet - 12, October, 2011 (18:04)

How could we possibly have a democratically elected parliament, when both sides have large numbers of corporate ghouls in their midst?

The Murdoch Press deliberately blocks all of the minor party and independent candidates from receiving a public hearing ... all except the Greens, that is.

I come from a staunch Labor background. If my parents were still alive, their vote would have shifted to the Centre Left, like mine.
Lorikeet - 12, October, 2011 (18:00)

http://barnabyjoyce.com.au/Newsroom/MediaReleases/tabid/74/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/1394/Very-Sad-Week-for-Australia.aspx

I have tried telling people before that the State Labor MP in my electorate gave $300,000 to his Green "opposition" to get the people living in the semi-rural part of our electorate onto a Low Carbon Diet in 2010. I also gave a list of numerous ways in which the livestock industries are being slowly wiped out, based on actual events over a number of years.

But keep your heads in the sand ... throw your brilliant party to celebrate ... and find out the hard way!
ETS - 12, October, 2011 (17:55)

I tried to let it go, really I did, but the reference to Star Trek got me as an old Trekkie from way back. I’m happy to use Star Trek as the basis of our forward planning and I look forward to the day when humanity and Vulcans live in peace with the Borgs. It will happen; they said so on Star Trek.

To read that the passage of Emissions Trading Bill is going to lead to mass euthanasia and a meat free diet among other things is, I believe, reading just a bit too much into it. Maybe I missed it in the speeches, possibly it was drowned out by the noisy few in the public galleries today. In any case I won’t believe it until it passes the Star Trek test.

Far from being the demise of democracy, the legislation reinforces our parliamentary democracy against the shrill shock jocks and deniers in Never Never Land. How could it be otherwise when a majority of democratically elected MPs voted for it?
Lorikeet - 12, October, 2011 (17:41)

I had that IQ test at age 40. It should be fairly clear to anyone reading this blog that nearly all of the nasty comments are aimed at me, by people who know they have lost the argument. Some cannot even spell my name.

Even when working as a group, they have no chance of winning.

I am looking forward to receiving further clarification regarding the petition on superannuation directly from the NSA, hopefully via the e-newsletter or blog.

The passing of the Carbon Tax in the parliament is not a win for our nation, nor is it a win for the world. The aim of both the CT and an ETS (the latter supported by Liberals) is to redistribute wealth and further empower banks and other massive corporations, who already have most of the say.

I am told that a global government with corporate rule was predicted in the Star Trek series of books.

If the Carbon Tax gets through the Senate, we can look forward to high prices for everything, rationing of every service, low wages, tiny accommodation, a meat free diet and mass euthanasia.

No doubt the usual nongs, most of whom are not in the over-50s age group (for good reasons), will throw a party to celebrate the demise of democracy, based on their worship of a Tax on Air.
Monitor - 12, October, 2011 (17:16)

For Bob Hrlrn Robyn and ETS
I suspect we have an early start on next weeks blog subject
Bob B - 12, October, 2011 (16:28)

It will pass through the Senate early next month. Once that happens which is more than likely, we will start to reduce the pollutants introduced by man for a long time. This is just a start and needs to go a lot further with many chemicals/products other than carbon dioxide. Onward, onward, onward..........
Helen - 12, October, 2011 (16:27)

A correction to my fourth paragraph (I meant the Labour party) and not Libs (a typo)...
Helen - 12, October, 2011 (16:23)

I wouldn't worry about Graham Perrett Robyn. I doubt he will go anywhere. Even Rudd has conceeded that things a "right" the way they are. He even gave our PM a kiss on the cheek today.

I am looking to the the implentation of the scheme so that those who have been so badly frightened by all the bad press will see just how good it is for our country.

Abbott behaved like a lion who just lost a battle (which he had). The Libs will have to come up with something really spectactular to be better than this scheme. The flow-on cost to the people will be short lived and just like the "purchasing on line" for cheaper product, the public will purchase items with the most inexpensive price tag. Are you listening ALDI shoppers. The same principle.

The Libs wanted an ETS straight off but had to start this way because of the way the election ended with a hung vote. We need changes here in every area. SOMEONE HAS GOT TO START SOMEWHERE! I am really happy for my Grandchildren that they will live in a cleaner and better run society than we have had for many years now.

Hopefully now we can get on to important issues like public housing (and the lack of). Speaking of which, I educated myself on the history of public housing and why it has died a horrible death over many yearss now. the down fall started with Whitlam and was finished off by the Fraser Government. I really hope that one day public housing will again be able to be purchased over a long period as it was in my mother and father's day.

Again it doesn't affect me, but it is sad that so many trash what is there because they can't buy them and good tenants can't find a place to live because of shortage. Another good topic for discussion Monitor.

You seem to have become a regular blogger as well!

"Oh what a beautiful day etc etc" laa laa laa laaaaa"
Cheers...
Robyn - 12, October, 2011 (15:17)

ETS, Monitor and Helen,

Such relief!
Helen your song is perfect for today.
"And I've got a beautiful feeling,
We are now headed in the right way."

The bills should pass through the Senate by the end of the year.

I am pleased about the stand Graham Perrett (Labor MP for the seat of Moreton in Qld) is threatening to take if Labor dumps Gillard as PM. He says he will quit to force a by-election. I for one would hate to see Gillard get dumped and think such an act would be political suicide.
Helen - 12, October, 2011 (15:11)

A great day for Australia yaaay!
I just watched "Question Time". Abbott was at his negative best. Even Libs voted on the bill and it had a majority vote.

All the screaming from the galleries were organised by the Libs(they were even dined in the Pollie's dining room before). What a joke!

Lorakeet, I was only referring to you and no-one else on this blog. I had not been on line for a while and noted all your insults to many bloggers.

When one is losing insults are the next option. You have lost this argument and so have the people who paid for very expensive ads to advertise something that has not yet happened (and never will).

Abbott said that he will fight in blood to get rid of everything when he/they are voted in. Pink pigs will fly over parliament when that happens. Even Lorakeet will not like to lose her extra pension or the ability to earn some money and not lose her pension.

Big business will not change what is in place and let's face it, Mr Abbott will be dealt with at election time anyway. The money will be handy too from investment (will he stop this?)

If the Libs get in, I hope they give credit to this government for the good job they are doing and to a PM who has taken more "s**t" than anyone I can think of and can still hold her head up high and soldier on. Julia Gillard has the respect of all those who work with her. I just hope others out there will bite the bullet and see what is really happening and stop listening to the likes of Alan Jones and all the shock jocks on the paid for comment station 2GB.He is after all a personal friend of Abbott. I really believe it is wrong to be allowed to spruke a lot of doom and gloom rot that has no foundation over the radio and get paid for it, just to get money and ratings.

Better take a herbal pill with a cup of herbal tea Lorakeet, the rest is optional
cheers...
Currawong - 12, October, 2011 (13:55)

To add to my earlier entry, some rationale. To limit the super annuation payments to 70 so others in the community can gain/retain employment is a bit like crying over spilt milk. To allow the payment to extend out to 75 acknowledges the free flow of life as we see it today.

An analogy, lets not permit motor vehicles as they might kill people and the demand on buying push bikes might lessen. You have got to move with the natural flow of things and not be stuck in a bog.
ETS - 12, October, 2011 (11:49)

The Emissions Trading Bill has finally been passed by the House of Representatives and should go through the Senate in due course. The doom-and-gloomsayers and climate change deniers will see that the sky will not fall in and Australia will not go under. The passage of this bill against the frantic ravings of the shock jocks and scaremongers shows that democracy is alive and well in Australia.
Currawong - 12, October, 2011 (11:21)

I read it as the superannuation guarantee, currently at 9%. Its a little ambiguos but that's life. Do you agree it should be extended beyond age 70 as I think the logic behind this is almost self evident.
Monitor - 12, October, 2011 (11:21)

As the resident reptilian nut counter I record that the bird brained Liarkeet is now up to 28% of the blog [27 out of 96]. Come on. Just a bit more effort and you can make it 30%!! I also note that she claims my post is inaccurate but does not show where because in fact it is too accurate for her comfort.

She defends her irrelevance and inaccurate prejudices because at age 11 she did well in an IQ test and later won a few school prizes. If she had testimonies from the past 30 years she would doubtless cite them. If her claims are true [and one cannot be sure it is in the case of someone who can brazenly deny she said something when it is set out earlier in her blog and who has a massive capacity for self delusion e.g. that her extreme right views are somehow centrist] she is a living example that brains not used deteriorate. Someone who cannot put a reasoned argument together or understand relevance and resorts to abuse instead cannot claim to be Einstein on Steroids on the basis of an IQ test done when she was 11. It is yet another example of her capacity for self delusion.

She accuses others of abuse when she dishes it out herself; she points to people not using words correctly when inter alia she consistently uses “recidivist” as meaning other than one who falls back into crime and has never been able to define what she means by communist which appears at least once in each blog; both of these are pure hypocrisy.

I also note that WEG makes another contribution without being able to point to any inaccuracy in my posts or to show why I should go away while Lorikeet climbs up to 30% of the blog

The good news today is the passing of the Clean Energy bills which will move Australia into the future and create more jobs than will be lost. The cold glare of reality will now shine on the outlandish claims of the climate change deniers lead by Dr No aka Tony Abbott.
Robyn - 12, October, 2011 (10:38)

This is not a response to Lorikeet, who I want nothing more to do with. It is an attempt to set the record straight because she has twisted my words to malign me.

I am not a devious person. I value honesty, empathy and consideration of others and live my life according to my values. I have not called myself a devious person on this blog. Lorikeet has twisted my words and meaning out of all proportion - which is just one of the toxic things she constantly does - which is why I say it is beginning to feel dangerous to write anything on the blog. She is an attack hound! She will seize on anything she can to put others down.

Monitor, I am so sorry you have decided to follow David Goss and others who have given up the blog because of Lorikeet. I value your intelligence, honesty and clear thinking. You will be missed.
Lorikeet - 12, October, 2011 (9:43)

I am still hoping the Carbon Tax will be blocked in the Senate. If it isn't, today will be the end of democracy in this nation, and the beginning of a huge financial struggle for the poor and the average.

Perhaps the detractors could join me by helping to feed the increasing number of homeless and destitute people, and getting the knitting needles out to make warm clothing.
Lorikeet - 12, October, 2011 (9:40)

Yes, yet another pack of rubbish from Helen AKA "Robyn II", who has no real idea of what really happens.

I spend very little time blogging, and I think the NSA would take a very dim view of its members having a go at anyone living on a pension.

This is Helen's second derogatory comment directed at those with disabilities, despite the fact her own husband has Parkinson's Disease.
Helen - 12, October, 2011 (7:41)

An "exciting day" and seeing that everyone is off topic anyway, I will say that I am looking forward to what I hope will transpire in Parliament today.

Lorakeet has lot's of time to blog and blog and blog. She will go nuts over the carbon legislation if it passes through. I for one am hoping it does.

I still haven't had a list of the damage that this current government has done in the last just over a year.

Please don't give me all the "crap" re Kevin Rudd either.I'm talking this goverment NOW. There has been more than ninety pieces of legislation that has passed through parliament during their time which receives little or no press since our PM came into power.

I have not seen anyone who works as hard. Her colleages have nothing but praise for her but still she can't win over the older generation. I truly can't understand this at all.

Our country is doing very well and this is the reason why those like lorakeet can sit at their computers and blog all day and call people names when they don't happen to agree. If we were in the UK or the USA today, it would not be this way.

"Oh what a beautiful morningggggg etc etc"
Lorikeet - 12, October, 2011 (6:50)

Yes, it was far more interesting than having to read the latest distorted reptilian nitpicking and bean counting attempt, which isn't even accurate.

Monitor should know that a lot of the time, I am trying to counter abuses from the reptile and his mates. If this cold-blooded person looked a little harder, he would find that Robyn has described HERSELF as devious. She didn't need any assistance from anyone.

I hope everyone has had a chance to sign any or all of the petitions sent by the NSA. I signed 3 out of 4 which I strongly support, but am waiting to hear sound reasoning on the issue of preserving superannuation at 9% to age 75. I believe encouraging people over 65 to work will make the job search much more difficult for those aged 50 to 65, and for much younger people trying to get a start in life.

Perhaps this would make a suitable blog topic.
WEG - 11, October, 2011 (22:38)

I was extremely pleased to find out Dieter has never been a door to door sales person.
Monitor - 11, October, 2011 (21:56)

Lorikeet is now 26.7% of the Blog [24 of 90]. She errs saying I am a bean counter. I count only her posts. The better description is “nut counter”.

Blogs get off track because many [mea culpa] follow Lorikeet Red Herrings out the window. These include her anti Labor comments [which Rick noted], the Carbon tax issue, her hobby horse of corporations, tap and go credit cards, supermarkets, the [erroneous] meaning of Dieter, her views on JWs and her theory of why blogs are deleted. She does not understand the concept of relevance. Pammy has it right

Lorikeet asks there be no personal attacks. But she called Robyn devious, immature, jealous, a playground bully who enjoys hurting people. This sounds like a personal attack to me. She says I am reptilian referring no doubt to “Monitor”. On that basis a Lorikeet could not object to being called bird brained. It cuts both ways.

She called Jehovah’s witnesses a “destructive cult” and later says she respects them. Which one is it?

She claims to be Centrist which is pure self delusion as the DLP is far right. Her emotional non-rational approach, her views on homosexuality, climate change and calling all to her left communist give the lie to her claim. Her incoherent views on corporations and protectionism does not make her “left”.

WEG may claim this humiliates Lorikeet. But it is just a mirror showing how Lorikeet humiliates herself though self contradiction, irrelevance and excessive volume.

WEG might also tell us why, if everyone is entitled to a view [In Lorikeets case 13], he says I am not so entitled. I had submitted only one factual posting which was directed at the subject or responding to Lorikeet. Seems inconsistent or is rational discussion painful to him?

I note Robyn’s request to remain but
A The blog is a bit weird when Lorikeet is in full flight.
B NSA has taken no steps to change it
C The Blog is only up for a week and
D I have other things I can do.
If the first three change I may return.
Lorikeet - 11, October, 2011 (21:40)

An idiot does not have an IQ in the top 2% of the population.

I think Brian Storm is much more intelligent and respectful than most other bloggers.

This blog seems to be accumulating quite a list of aggressive, name calling women who have no manners.
Wayne - 11, October, 2011 (21:29)

"In case you weren't aware, blogs were not designed for you to criticise other bloggers or boss them about. We are not school children and you are not our teacher."

Perhaps we, including Lorikeet, should all follow Lorikeet's excellent comment and treat each other with the respect that should be shown to mature adults.
Lorikeet - 11, October, 2011 (20:26)

pammy:

You are clearly another very narrow thinker who doesn't consider the usefulness of considering topics across a spectrum.

When I have been trying to get our fellow bloggers to help workers and the elderly to get a fair go, you have only tried to find fault.

When I was 15 and still in high school, I won 2 writers' awards and sat at the top of the class throughout my school life. Luckily I was taught by the Head of the English Department, who was a brilliant innovative thinker.

I also won a scholarship, and was runner-up for both the German and Mothercraft Awards.

In case you weren't aware, blogs were not designed for you to criticise other bloggers or boss them about. We are not school children and you are not our teacher.
pammy - 11, October, 2011 (17:21)

I'm sorry for some slightly misleading information. One word left out of my comment. I should have said 'former electicity compny'. We are no longer with Origin and we chose to change after the sign went up. The sign came with a letter that if their sales people ignore the sign they are to be repoted to the company.Lorikeet remember when at school the teacher gave a topic for debate and if you wondered off that subject you failed, well I think that should be the same with blog sights. Oh please stick to the topic or form a political web page on Facebook or somewhere.You have put three items up since my last one off which one line was related to the topic. Sorry as a retired teacher I would have failed you. By the way if we did away with door-to-door sales people they to would be out of work. They are handy for some people who are house bound. I just choose not to do my shopping that way.
Lorikeet - 11, October, 2011 (16:05)

Sorry, the 52,000 jobs I mentioned as being lost in the last year were only the jobs lost in the manufacturing industries.
Lorikeet - 11, October, 2011 (16:02)

Yesterday I attended the local NSA Branch Meeting. I made a pact with some fairly elderly ladies that we are going to encourage everyone we know to collect receipts for everything, and to reject self-service in shops and post offices, in order to preserve jobs. This will also help to retain assistance for those with the greatest need.

We need more help. How about it?
Lorikeet - 11, October, 2011 (16:02)

Don't you just love it??? An electricity company giving out signs for the front door to deter competition.

A blog topic should always meander its way through related issues to establish the likely impact on other elements of our lives, including related legislation.

It might help if the Moderator did a short course in Blog Moderation.

For the person who thinks that WEG defends me because I support his Right Wing allegiance, I would like to remind you that I belong to a Centrist Party (that's the middle of politics). My personal position is at the Centre Left, where the ALP only pretends to be.

Those further to the Left are Global Communists (ALP, Greens, Socialist Alliance etc).

Today in the parliament, Julia Gillard expressed a desire to financially empower the Chinese Middle Class, with a view to selling them our wine and an Australian education.

Question: What makes her think that the Chinese (thus empowered) cannot grow their own grapes, make some excellent wine, and use textbooks to advantage their own students?

There I was, foolishly thinking she actually cared about the poor, but then I remembered the 70,000+ homeless and destitute people who are being left for aid agencies and the general public to feed here in Queensland.

At the present time, I would certainly support Tony Abbott as having the better acumen to run the country and its economy. Only fools would bring in a Carbon Tax while global economic fragility remains the order of the day.

For those who aren't aware, 52,000 jobs have been lost in Australia in the last year alone. I have seen unemployed women in the 50+ age group crying on the TV because they cannot find work. They said there is no full-time work available.
pammy - 11, October, 2011 (13:07)

Started reading the blogs from the top of the page (newest to oldest) and by the time I had read half a dozen I'd forgotten what the topic of the blog was. Just an idea for the monitor, if the blog isn't directly related to the topic don't print it, that way more people could have a say and the discussion relevant with it hopefully not degenerating into the usual nit-picking and petty to and fro between certain regulars. I won't name names but if the shoes fits you are usually the wearer. It often reminds me of a preschool playground (of which I was a witness to for many, many years), which is sad concidering contributions are suppose to be written by mature adults.By the way we are all entitled to our opinion which doesn't mean other have to agree with it. And why can't Dieter's name just be Dieter, why does it have to have any Anglo or any other equivalent for that matter. On the topic of the blog, we have a 'DO NOT KNOCK SALES PEOPLE' sticker under our screen door's handle. Where did we get from - it was sent to us by our electricity company. And yes you do have to re-register every couple of years for the telephone do not call system.
Brian Storm - 11, October, 2011 (12:33)

I’ll add my voice to the other welcomes Dieter and to your request to the Moderator not to purge the old topics. Your comment about blogging is a wise word of restraint but I suspect it will fall on deaf ears. Don’t worry about the discussion of your name taking us off topic. Like most blogs, this one meanders all over the place at times and picks up a life of its own. Good to have you with us.
Dieter B - 11, October, 2011 (11:36)

To all the people who welcomed me, thanks for your kindness. This is an interesting and robust blog with contributions from many people with strong ideas. That is good and I wish I could read your comments on the earlier topics. I hope the National Seniors makes use of your combined wisdom and I still cannot see why the comments must be deleted.

Lorikeet is very forthright in her comments and gets most of the criticism on the blog. This is unfortunate because her comments are interesting. She argues strongly and maybe it is her style that upsets people. Other people also have strong views and this dialogue makes an interesting blog. Some comments are very critical. Someone wrote on another blog that we should not write anything about other people that we would not be prepared to say to them if we were both in the same room. I try to follow this good advice.

The discussion of my name was also interesting. The meaning of Dieter is warrior of fighter of the people. I went to school with a boy named Derek and I remember a teacher telling us our names were linked. I have not heard of the link to John before but I have not really looked into it very closely. I hope we can end the discussion of Dieter. It is interesting to me but maybe not to other people and it distracts from the topic.

I think WEG’s question was rhetorical and designed to get the discussion away from Dieter. To answer it, I am not and never was a door to door sales person.
ETS - 11, October, 2011 (10:58)

Dieter, if you are still reading the blog, the answer to your question should be clear by now. I’ve found that you can stay away from the blog for a couple of week and still be subject to criticism. You may have noticed one of our contributors suffers from Persecuted Messiah Syndrome.

Which leads me to thank Monitor for his/her research on the name of god. It’s a sad state of affairs when you make an informed contribution to a subject and get called a reptilian nitpicker and bean counter for your troubles. However, not being a religious person myself, I don’t really care if god is called Jehovah, YHVH, RSVP or Darth Vader. The JWs, Adventists, Mormons and other door knocking representatives of “god” are door to door salespeople and should be subject to the laws regulating door to door activity. They should have no special entitlement, especially when it comes to talking to children.
Robyn - 11, October, 2011 (10:27)

Monitor,

I hope you don't give up on the blog although I do understand the temptation. At times (and particularly on this strand) I feel a sense of danger. My contributions on the topic exploring tactical ways to deal with crooks, scammers, fleecers and harassers were seized by Lorikeet to denounce me as a cruel, heartless person. I know that there is no dealing with her because you just go further into the mire. That means one can never defend themselves against what feels dangerous and unfair. That creates the temptation to give up and leave the blog.

I have learned to ignore WEG'S constant support of Lorikeet and I hope you can also. In my view WEG does exhibit prejudice, in spite of his proclamation "No prejudice" because Lorikeet is dominating the blog with his own right wing views. He would never give her advice to "please go away" as he did to you.

I admire your efforts toward pushing for some sanity on the blog strands. Bob B may have the answer but I doubt it. A blog is like a community. I think a central question and point of past divisiveness (between people other than Lorikeet) on the blogs has been whether to stand up to the dominating bully in the community or not.

For many years my mother-in-law was a grandiose, dominating bully. Ignoring and/or humouring didn't stop her abuses. There came a time when my husband, myself and our 3 children (as adults) all stood up to her. This turned her negative behaviour around. She however had something to lose and Lorikeet doesn't.

To fight or flee? There is no answer. Removal from contact with her (Bob's solution) offers some form of personal release but will do nothing to rectify her dogmatic domination of each strand. Nevertheless, at this point I feel so sickened by her constant abuse and manipulative game playing that I feel the need to remove from all further contact with her.
Lorikeet - 11, October, 2011 (6:19)

This blog has a short list of toxic contributors who need to look at their own behaviour before criticising others.

Robyn would have more accurately said she "projects what is toxic". Like some others, she delights in hurting other people's feelings.

I think Monitor is one of those reptilian nitpickers and bean counters. Most people probably do not care what terminology the JWs use to portray God. I have respect for those who are willing to fight for democracy within their own country, not sit on their hands while fascists like Hitler take over.

This blog is a place to share opinions and experiences. If some people think I contribute too much, let us hear more of what YOU have to say, without the personal attacks.
Bob B - 11, October, 2011 (5:42)

Monitor

Keep up the good work. Your last comments seem soundly based from knowledge and wholesome research. Well done.

My research and life experience has shown me that to ignore or failing that to humour is the best way to deal with the aborrant one. Any contradiction or just failure to accept her view she will treat poorly. Just let her meander on her way without comment and let others see her fully for what she portrays herself to be.
Monitor - 10, October, 2011 (23:02)

For Robin
Thank you for your comments.
On your second point I suggest you remember that criticism from some sources is more welcome than praise as it shows you are on the right track.
Monitor - 10, October, 2011 (22:47)

WEG is right that everyone is entitled to A view. But at 16 views and some 22% of the blog “entitlement” vanishes. WEG dismisses my blog as a tirade but identifies no factual error in my comments all of which are fully documented in the deleted Blogs. I merely seek to enhance Lorikeet’s self awareness. I now concede that is a hopeless task and may well join the ranks of those giving up on the Lorikeet Blog run by NSA on the grounds that if you fly with the crow you get shot with the crows

Lorikeet describes the Jehovah’s witnesses as a destructive cult. It depends on your definition but their beliefs seem no more destructive than most other cults and religions. The Jehovah‘s Witnesses had the strength of conviction to resist the Nazi and not serve in their armed forces and so finished up in concentration camps. That strength of conviction, with only a few exceptions, was not found in the Catholic and Protestant Churches in Germany at the time.

Lorikeet has indeed seen Yahveh translated as Jehovah inter alia in the King James Bible but this was a misunderstanding of the Hebrew by the 16th and 17th Century Bible translators. The word in the Hebrew Bible was Yahveh, spelt YHVH. When the Jews introduced vowels 1000 years ago in recording the Old Testament the vowels put with YHVH were the vowels AOA from Adonai [Lord] as an indication that when reading, God’s name was not to be said. Translators put the words together to get Jehovah a word completely unknown to the Jews and which never existed in Hebrew. Modern translations thus do not contain “Jehovah” [e.g. Revised Standard, Contemporary English] but use the word Lord. This misunderstanding of Hebrew also gave us Abraham rather than Avrham, Rebecca instead of Rivka to mention only two.
Robyn - 10, October, 2011 (21:23)

Monitor,

I appreciate your contributions.

Lorikeet:

I don't care what you think about me. I learned long ago to take in what is nourishing and reject what is toxic.
Lorikeet - 10, October, 2011 (20:24)

Robyn:

I see you as you are, a playground bully who gets her kicks from hurting other people. Just re-read what you have written on this particular topic.
Lorikeet - 10, October, 2011 (20:17)

Don't worry, WEG. I am very used to the Tall Poppy Syndrome in action.

What some people think is weird can be gleaned from the parliamentary records, Question Time in the parliament, the National Press Club address, international agreements signed by our government, various acts of social engineering, etc etc.

Until people are willing to take the time to do the research, plus thousands of hours of thinking about trends since the end of World War II, they will never get it!

BTW Jehovah is certainly mentioned in the bible. I can specifically remember a reference to: "Our Lord, God, Jehovah."

In a democratic society, people are entitled to believe whatever they want, as long as they don't use it to hurt anyone. When I was doing Exit Counselling, the JWs were listed as a destructive cult working on a "slowly ... slowly ... catchee ... monkey" approach.

Most of the people I counselled out of cults came from the very aggressive recruitment variety.
WEG - 10, October, 2011 (18:59)

Monitor = yawn.
Every person is entitled to a view without your tirade. I’ve enough intellect to sort through all the contributions from our senior members and certainly don’t need your gatekeeper style summary that effectively is humiliating to an individual and in my opinion does not add any value to the debate. You’re guilty of the same misdemeanour
Some advice, please go away.
Without prejudice.
Monitor - 10, October, 2011 (17:43)

I have had two telephone salesmen and several Jehovah’s Witnesses call. I tell the former I’m not interested and enter into no discussions. I ask the latter who is Jehovah as he is not mentioned in the Bible. If they say it is the Jewish name for God I point out that Jews referred only to Elohahim, Yahweh and Adonai as the names for God and the name Jehovah was unknown to them. I suggest they consult their Bible more closely. That usually closes the discussion.

Dieter asks a good question which I hope the NSA will answer. Why do NSA not only close each blog after 7 days but also wipe it out? I and many others have raised the question before.

The most obvious reason which has been suggested which the NSA has never denied is that Lorikeet makes so many blogs [14 of 68 in this one 20% but often going much higher] and of such peculiarity that deletion saves the NSA embarrassment. The absence of previous recent blogs also means that sensible people are not discouraged from participation by being associated with a blog dominated by way out views mostly from one person. Several bloggers have ceased participation for that reason. Several have suggested an upper limit of postings from each person.

Dieter would get an idea of her intellectual approach when she suggested his name is the equivalent of John in English because someone once told her that! I spent only 2 minutes on Google to see it derives with a few other names from the old German Theodoric the two elements of which mean people and ruler. It has no link with Theodore which is a Greek name. John has Hebrew origins. But Lorikeet always prefers to go with a preconceived idea rather than actually find out the facts. She is incapable of carrying an argument resorting to abuse as form of reply and many have declined to engage with her for that reason. Despites this she regards herself as Einstein on Steroids and thinks she knows everything about everything hence her domination of the blog.
Helen - 10, October, 2011 (16:11)

Just popped in for a moment. Not much time at the moment with everyone here.

It looks like the topic is exhausted anyway and the usual seems to be happening.

I asked my husband who is also German if there was an English equivalent to Dieter and he said not that he knows of. There are names given all the time to those who come here because many find names difficult to say.

In Europe they find it hard to say our names but never call us anything else, although I often get called Helena I must admit. Now I am way off topic.

Better be off
Cheers...
Robyn - 9, October, 2011 (22:46)

Jealousy? Jealous of you Lorikeet? That's your best delusion yet!!!

One thing I have learned with age is that people see in others what they want to see and there is not much any of us can do about that. You obviously see me in a very twisted way Lorikeet and you have even twisted my past statements to fit your picture. There is no point in arguing with you.
Lorikeet - 9, October, 2011 (20:54)

Yes, Robyn, that's why I have known your true personality from the word "GO", even admitting right here that you are devious, in addition to your immaturity and jealousy.

I'm sure Dieter is now well and truly in the loop, with racism and generic pigeonholing of call centre workers being brought into the equation by you.
Robyn - 9, October, 2011 (19:56)

Hey WEG and Richard,
Your dogs sound gorgeous. The best answer to unwanted guests is probably a good, loving, protective dog.

Hey Lorikeet,
So nice of you to alert our new blog member, Dieter to the immaturity of blog members. I'm sure Dieter would be totally lost as to what the hell is going on with this blog without your help.

On the subject of call centre workers. I recently read an article about how they are now constituents of the new middle class in India. Well paid in comparison to the lower classes. They are doing well for themselves.

On the subject of destructive cults. Gee, you really do have the "one up" on the rest of us in this regard Lorikeet. I'm sure the majority of us has never met a destructive cult leader or member. You really do know best when it comes to malevolence within our midst.
Lorikeet - 9, October, 2011 (17:54)

I have no dog, only a couple of clues which might suggest a particularly savage beast is lurking somewhere. Over the years, it has cost me almost nothing to keep unwanted door knockers out.

Once 2 armed police officers stopped at the front gate, very hesitant to proceed into the jaws of potential death (or more accusations attached to having to "despatch" another "sweet family pet".

Dieter has already been given at least 3 excellent examples of the immaturity of at least 3 contributors to this blog. My attitude towards large corporations ripping people off does not extend to being deliberately hurtful towards their grossly underpaid call centre workers.

Jehovah's Witnesses? I once had to deal with them for trying to influence my teenage son, when there was an adult available to speak with them. I asked them to kindly pay attention to the law in that regard.

Having counselled people out of destructive cults, I have had many interesting encounters with their members and leaders, including threats from the Church of Scientology via the local rag.
WEG - 9, October, 2011 (17:06)

How to deter a door to door salesperson?
Get a dog.
My beautiful black Labrador (female of course) has a wonderful temperament and is my best companion since retiring 5 years ago.
I’ve found sales people generally are extremely adverse to a dog being present. She controls the moment. She barks initially, then will sit on command, with her eyes firmly trained on the visitor.
I would never open my front door without her being present.
Richard - 9, October, 2011 (16:37)

I once had Jehova Witnesses come to the door complaining that my "dangerous" (hardly!) dog barked at them.
They said they would sue me if my dog bit them. I told them they were trespassing and that my dog was doing the right thing. A loud ungodlike discussion followed before they stormed off! I was never bothered by the Jehovas again.
Currawong - 9, October, 2011 (16:11)

I have tried the tactic of asking them to hold whist I then have a discussion with someone in the house about how rude cold calling people really is - it is effective and lasts less than a minute.

Door-to-door salespeople I usually sus out as I can see them as I approach the door. Sometimes you can see clearly what they are about so I just open the door with a quick 'good morning' followed by a 'not today thank you' and then close the door. Don't even give them a chance to answer.

Many moons ago my then young daughter was sold magazines by Watchtower. Fortunately I found out soon enough to chance them down the street calling loudly until I caught up with them. Then continued loudly asking them they had the audacity to sell to minors. Brought about a very quick refund and apology whist watching sideways to see who was listening.
Robyn - 9, October, 2011 (15:07)

Bob B,

Yes, having some fun with unwanted scam callers helps to preserve a happier mood.

Another tactic I have heard about is to take control of the conversation. With pretended interest, ask the caller questions about themselves, their life, country, family etc. In other words, turn the conversation around so that it's all about them and not you. I've never tried this but it sounds like fun. eg. "I don't want to talk about my computer. Lets talk about you. How's your day been?" etc. If they keep trying to switch the conversation back again, you stay on track eg "and how do you like this job? Must be hard ringing people up all day long. What's the weather like where you're ringing from? And where is that? Oh, do you like living there?" etc

Wonder if anyone has any fun ideas or tactics for dealing with pushy salespeople at the door?
Bob B - 9, October, 2011 (12:15)

Robyn

Yes you are right. The cold call fix your computer for free is a con. They follow it with a bill for $400ish, I have heard.

I generally play with them being partially computer literate and have fun. When they realise this they hang up quickly.
Robyn - 9, October, 2011 (11:04)

Lorikeet, you surprise me! Suddenly you have concern for the profits of corporates who used offshore call centres to harass everyone without conscience before the introduction of the Do Not Call Register. Have you undergone some form of metamorphosis?

Many people devised creative strategies to deal with the ongoing harassment at the time.

My tactic could also be used for the "You have a problem with your computer" callers. You could say "I'm not computer savvy. Hang on and I'll get someone who is" and then you run up their bill. I've heard these people are crooks, seeking information. They deserve a comeback!
Bob B - 9, October, 2011 (10:34)

Lorikeet

I mentioned many topics ago that NSA pull useful information from our comments. So your theory is well and truly second hand.

I'm sure comments are closed down as they are as that hides some of the nonsense that occurs. Your 9:55 is an example as I cannot detect any insult from Dieter.
Lorikeet - 9, October, 2011 (9:55)

See, Dieter, insults already!

This blog is meant for feedback and information, not for a small disrespectful bunch to keep haranguing the same person/people.

If these people want to have fun, they should take their circus to the Big Top where it belongs.

I do, however, thank Kay for her compliment. I do my best to keep the conversation going so that all possible relevant points are elucidated.

I'm certain many of us would not leave someone hanging on a phone for 5 or 10 minutes, in order to rack up a huge bill at the caller's end.
Robyn - 9, October, 2011 (9:34)

I am also on the 'Do Not Call Register' and it seems to have stopped most of the calls. Before it was introduced though, I used a tactic on these callers which gave me some devious joy. When they began with "Am I speaking with the owner of the house" I would say "No, just a moment and I'll get her for you" and then I would put the phone down in effort to push up their bill. Invariably after 5 or 10 minutes they were gone.

Like Kay, I live in a semi-rural area, which may account for the lack of door to door sales people. Maybe our turn is coming Kay.

There should definitely be tight regulations governing marketing methods.
Kay Kelly - 9, October, 2011 (7:31)

Yes, Dieter, this is a very different, quirky blog - just as Robyn has said! And yes, that is probably why they are deleted. I would hope the NSA can extract what little sense there is from these blogs and use that to inform its subsequent discussions/policy formulation. That would be the chief purpose of a blog, I suspect. Plus, of course, giving us 'oldies' some fun in life!

And you will learn soon enough that one blogger in particular is the expert on every topic, and always has to have the last say! Even when her experience/knowledge is limited and her Google efforts fall short. But that is all part of the fun!
Lorikeet - 8, October, 2011 (23:17)

I have a new theory on the main reason for most of the comment threads being deleted after a week.The NSA gets the information it needs from members and then probably stores it on a file elsewhere, where no sticky beaks can gain access.

Most organisations run blogs to disseminate information and receive feedback. This helps them to formulate a policy or plan.

I'm fairly sure the last NSA newsletter contained at least some information we asked for last week on the blog.
Robyn - 8, October, 2011 (19:37)

Welcome Dieter. Enjoying the competitive to and fro about your name. These NSA blogs are quite quirky which is what makes them enjoyable. This may also account for why they get wiped so quickly. The quirkiness can get quite heated at times.

Don't have problems with salespeople coming to my door.
WEG - 8, October, 2011 (16:15)

Is Dieter a door to door sales person?
Lorikeet - 8, October, 2011 (15:49)

Yes, Kaye, it seems to depend what source you use. I found a reference to "Dieter" which said it could be translated as "Peter" and a list of other names. I couldn't find "Derek" anywhere.

"John" has a lot of translations, even just in German usage e.g. Hans, Johannes, Johann.

"Peter" also has various translations such as "Pedro, Dieter, Pierre".

I wonder what effect pressing "Hash" several times produces?
d benn - 8, October, 2011 (14:13)

The thing that I find most inconvenient is, after rushing to the phone in case some family member needs help, it is a telemarketer on the line. I read somewhere that when this happens we should hang up immediately before becoming engaged in conversation, then press Hash several times which lets them know in no uncertain terms I do not want them to call again.
Kay Kelly - 8, October, 2011 (13:15)

Lorikeet:

I am aware that this comment adds nothing to the blog with regard to the actual topic, but you may have confused Dieter with Hansdieter. Hans is a German form of Jack/John. The closest English equivalent to Dieter is Derek. It is my ex-husband's name, hence I am very familiar with it. But you are correct re the pronunciation.

Enough said! Sorry Dieter!
Lorikeet - 8, October, 2011 (12:23)

I looked at WEG's link on the Do Not Call Register. The government sets up all kinds of policing bodies, but I think they mostly don't do anything.

The most corrupt organisation I have ever dealt with was the insurance review body in Melbourne. From my experience, I consider they employ the most skulduggerous of all insurance loss assessors, with both a bias and hatred of insured people. They don't even mind deliberately intimidating the general public via the telephone.

Arabella:

At one time, we were told to re-register for the DNCR, but I didn't bother, and the number of unwanted calls remained about the same. I don't get many, except from charities, who are exempt from the DNCR anyway.
Lorikeet - 8, October, 2011 (12:10)

Kay Kelly:

I learned that Dieter was the German name for John in a German class, from a teacher who was a Subject Master and had visited Germany many times.

Dieter also uses the correct spelling for the German language. It is pronounced (Dee-ter).

Deiter would be pronounced (Die-ter).
John Preston - 8, October, 2011 (11:44)

In Qld there is an Electricity Rebate for the elderly. It became evident that the little girl who tried to churn me was totally ingorant of this (inadequate training) and amazingly the contract offered to me excluded the rebate. I never received any response from the Company when I devoted my time and a stamp etc to setting them right.
Arabella - 8, October, 2011 (10:45)

I found the 'donotcall' register has worked to some degree. However I believe it has a time limit of several years and it requires renewing - I think?? I don't get door to door callers because I live in a village but I do receive phone calls sometimes. These are usually scammers pretending to be calling about computers, government research projects or research. All of these callers so far have accents and the calls sound as if they are from another country. I just say 'No, I'm not interested' and put the phone down extinguishing their call. I regard that as an invasion of my privacy just the same as if it were a physical door to door scammer and can't be bothered with any more discussion with them.
Dieter B - 8, October, 2011 (9:22)

Thank you Kay for the kind welcome. ETS, don’t worry, no offence taken. I’ve seen both spellings of my name but I think my spelling is the more popular. Your humorous point has some validity as I would be fitter if I lost some weight.
WEG - 8, October, 2011 (8:28)

Brian Storm - interesting reading / cases on penalties for the DNCR infringements.

www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_410062
Kay Kelly - 8, October, 2011 (7:58)

Lorikeet:

The closest English name to Dieter is Derek (not John!)
Lorikeet - 7, October, 2011 (20:43)

The name "Dieter" is the German version of "John".
Lorikeet - 7, October, 2011 (20:42)

I have found that the Do Not Call Register keeps most callers out, except for the real scumbags it was designed to eliminate.

I have also been to a Time Share Presentation, and the gift I received was a very cheap camera which proved to be useless. We were encouraged to applaud vigorously whenever someone had been sufficiently coerced. Although I was only in my 20s, I left without signing anything.

When I was cooking dinner this evening, a young man phoned, purporting to be from Telstra. After telling him 3 times I didn't need a mobile phone, I asked:

"What did I just tell you?"

Then he went on to ask if I was on the internet and I knew he was NOT a Telstra employee. Without another word, I put the phone back on the hook. I'm sure some people would have sworn at him first.
ETS - 7, October, 2011 (20:04)

Dieter, I probably have some egg on my face. I was not making fun of your name – I genuinely thought it was a typo, which I often do too, and the little square was actually a smiley face that went wrong when I copied it over. Thanks Kay for the correction. No offence was intended.
Brian Storm - 7, October, 2011 (19:54)

I’m also on the Do Not Call Register and I can confirm it does not stop the calls. I think the callers count on people not being annoyed enough to report them. But then, I don’t know what would happen if I did report someone.

I am always cautious when a salesman asks me to sign up for something immediately. I prefer to take it away and think about it and make a decision away from the pressure points. This story is a variation on the insistent door-to-door pitch. I don’t know if it was a scam but it sounds intimidating and, no, it was not me.

Some years back a friend and her husband holidaying at Surfers Paradise were approached by someone on the street and given a ticket of some kind that showed they had “won” a bottle of champagne. All they had to do to redeem their prize was sit through a 15 minute property investment talk. They smelt a rat but went along for the ride just to see what would happen. Over five hours later they emerged from the building having been subjected to an intensely high pressured sales pitch about joining a time share group for cheap holidays. The cost was in the thousands and would have been ongoing. They kept saying no and every time they tried to leave they were asked to stay for a few more minutes and talk to someone else who would give the sales pitch from a slightly different angle. They said it was very professional and organised in a way to make them feel inadequate for saying no (they were too polite to be rude to their hosts). Finally they asked to go to the toilets and then quickly made their escape (they said escape was what it felt like). They lost most of the day and did not get their “prize” but it would have been far more costly if they had signed anything.

It sounds like it was probably all within the law and there would have been a cooling off period had they signed an agreement. But it is an example of the old saying “let the buyer beware”.
shez - 7, October, 2011 (19:24)

i have had door to door salesman trying to sell me new power contracts but I tell them I am happy with my current supplier, I have the 10% with origin, we also have solar. I am also on the donotcall register but it is a waste of time, we still get the calls, I have an answering machine and we usually wait too see who it is before answering, if it is a telemarketer they nearly always hang up before you answer
Kay Kelly - 7, October, 2011 (18:39)

Well, we live in a semi-rural area. No one except some very keen religious people bother going all the way out here to harangue us. I guess that's one advantage of living at least 15 Km from the nearest village. But unfortunately we are not safe from telephone callers. The Do Not Call register clearly doesn't stop overseas callers and scammers! We get at least one call per week from some scammer overseas trying to tell us we have a problem with our computer(s). They get short shift from us!

BTW welcome to Dieter! It is a very nice German name! Nothing to do with dieting! And I agree, most blogs remain well after they are closed for comment. I would like to see this one do the same.
WEG - 7, October, 2011 (18:06)

The 'do not call register' is just as successful as 'grocery watch' & 'petrol watch'. They don't work along with many other such platitudes from our government (ACCC in particular).
ETS - 7, October, 2011 (17:29)

My phone number is listed on the Do Not Call Register but I still get calls presumably from call centres overseas about problems with my computer. Regulation has its limits. I have a sign on my property that salespeople should not call, but still they come. They disregard what they don’t like. A clear “no”, sometimes repeated, us usually sufficient but they can get very assertive, even aggressive in the process. Some people, not just seniors, are more vulnerable to these tactics and may sign anything or agree to things over the phone just to get rid of the nuisances. The cooling off period is OK but getting out of these agreements can still be difficult.

A friend of mine had a similar experience to Geoff when she was asked to sign something saying the salesperson had visited her. She refused to even look at it so she can’t say if it was genuine, but Geoff’s point about not knowing what we might be signing is a valid one.

Dieter B (should that be Deiter or are you trying to lose weight? ), thanks for the link to the SA booklet. Quite informative and something we should all read, if only to refresh our memories and understanding.

As to your question about why the blogs are scrubbed each week, I agree it is an unusual practice. I won’t answer directly but if you read this blog for the next week you should be able to work it out.
Allen - 7, October, 2011 (17:26)

Take care when you buy an Iphone from Optus . Initially the phone wouldn't work and their supposed "customer tech support" said Itunes must be activated before the phone could be operational. When it was taken back to the Optus Store the staff laughed at this suggestion and said all that was need was to turn the phone off and on again and sure enough it worked.

That night the charger was plugged in and it didn't work.

Back to the Optus Store where they checked the phone and charger and said the charger was faulty. They said it wasn't their problem- it was Apples. They refused to accept responsibility for the phone although they sold it and under Qld law were responsible. In spite of 50 minutes spent talking to various Optus staff directly and via a phone they refused to accept responsibility.

In frustration we left and went directly to an Apple employee in a Myer store who immediately contacted Apple. A replacement charger was sent within two days. Optus is appalling and when the time comes to renew my contract I won't be using Optus.
Easy Peasy - 7, October, 2011 (17:25)

I might also add, ban telephone selling!
Easy Peasy - 7, October, 2011 (17:22)

Simple, just ban door-to-door selling!
weerobby - 7, October, 2011 (17:10)

I dont know what you lot are winging about, here in the west we dont have a choice of electricity suppliers.
Lorikeet - 7, October, 2011 (16:31)

We live in a very corrupt world, and I am very worried about the Tap and Go card, and shop assistants now asking if we want a receipt, when it is our legal right.

Today, 5 days into a catalogue sale, I was overcharged on tomatoes. Although I received my bag of tomatoes free of charge, no attempt was made to change the price on the computer.

So while thousands of people are paying $4.99 per kg for tomatoes with a large sign which says $2.99 right above them, supermarkets are happy to give a refund to the few that complain.

I am asking for your assistance with this issue for the protection of all consumers. I regularly encounter it at Woolworths, Coles and the Supa IGA.
Lorikeet - 7, October, 2011 (16:30)

I am really impressed by some people's excellent ability to get rid of idiots from the telephone and the front door. But can you top this? I once had the leader of a destructive cult banned from a university campus, and his followers lost their meeting room as well. My (then) husband even had to toss one of them out over the front gate!

Dieter B:

The comments are deleted mainly because a short list of Labor/Greens supporters and their "comrades in ridicule" are on the attack in a very impolite way, mostly against one person... me! Before I came along, I bet they did it to others.

Rick:

I'm glad you are amused, but what I say here is true. Labor and Liberals support privatisation of everything, and allow large corporations to rip everyone off, whether they are recipients of services, their workers or shareholders. They have a primary goal of building their empires at everyone else's expense.

In Aged Care, the worst racists are not the elderly or Australian workers. They are the upper level management of private companies backed by The Macquarie Bank, depriving visa holders of shifts and equal pay with Aussies.

I think we all know that Telstra and other ISPs get away with pretty much anything, despite the existence of a telecommunications ombudsman. I expect the organisation that Anne works for will be exactly the same ... a semi-toothless tiger, largely snarling at the moon.

WEG made a good point about the Carbon Tax con. What about the televised bribery when Juliar delivered her folders to the 3 Independents on prime time TV??
Rick - 7, October, 2011 (11:56)

Lorikeet I marvel at your ability to provide an anti labor comment on any subject put before you. The total irrelevance of the subject to anything political doesn't bother you. Keep up the good work I like to have a good laugh at least once a day.
Bob B - 7, October, 2011 (11:15)

Yes WEG, something is necessary to ensure appropriate business practice and that starts with the companies themselves. When my last contract came to an end they did send a letter explaining the discount would substantially reduce. Before I could call to negotiate a better deal, a competitor beat them to the punch through a door knock campaign. It was quite deliberate and scored a lot of new business including mine. The original company probably thought they were smart but didn't recon on the business accumen of their competitor. I would have moved anyway if the old discount was not returned.

The people who make these decisions are not necessarily smart but take home hugh salaries and bunuses. This is what drives them. If they were to suffer for poor work then things might change but as long as the current 'ethic' for determining salaries and bunuses for executives continues things will not change.

An example. An exec in some companies now can get 100% bonus if his company meets the 50th percentile for like companies. It would make more sense that the bonus payment starts at 50% and grades up to 100% at 100%, if you follow. We need action to ensure execs are paid for actual performance and adjustments are necessary to bring the quantum into line realistically. Nobody is worth millions for the work they do, its just they can and they do serve themselves.
WEG - 7, October, 2011 (10:35)

I confirm that a new Code of Practice with standards of behaviour for sales agents, marketing companies and energy retailers is in place.

The compliance routine AGL Sales Rep went through with me 3 weeks ago was a substantially better routine from a past experience with Origin / Intergral. This however did not prevent the AGL Sales rep from misrepresentation and lying about the value of the termination payment. I have registered a complaint with AGL, for which they need to respond to me within a specified timeframe.

These companies offer the same discount rate (Elect 10% and in AGL’s case – Gas 5%). After 2 years the rate diminishes, but if you ring up and suggest you’ll change supplier, you’re back on the original discount – what a rort, what a rip off!

Australian don’t take too well to rorters / liars, as highlighted recently with HSU and the Federal Government carbon tax lie.
Helen - 7, October, 2011 (10:23)

Personally, I think all electricity providers are not much different from one another which is why I am not loyal to any, but just go where it works for us at the time. I guess it is just the business part of my brain taking over. I use this rule for many things in my life (including who is running the country). We can and must get the best deals, so if some-one isn't doing the right thing (find someone who will). For the next eighteen months of our two year contract with AGL, all is well at our house re electricity. What happens after that is what's on offer and is good for us.

Monitor can you explain to Deiter why blogs are sometimes deleted? You would do this much better than us. Most of us know why already...
AVLSON - 7, October, 2011 (10:06)

A few years ago we had an appalling experience with AGL Billing.

We always pay on Visa and were upset to receive a letter from AGL stating we hadn't paid our electricity bill ( we had paid several days before the due date).
I contacted AGL and was told there were problems with their accounts section and to ignore the letter. The next account arrived which stated the previous account was unpaid. I contacted AGL again and was told they hadn't received any payment. I then quoted the receipt number for the paid bill and was told this was no proof of payment and the staff had been directed by management to demand a faxed copy of the Visa statement. I told them this was private information but I would Fax a portion of the account relevant to the bill. None of the AGL Fax numbers worked and I had to contact them again. They said their fax machines were unreliable and gave me another which did work. After viewing the details they admitted the account was paid but their internal systems showed it unpaid!

They did not apologise and the next account showed it was still unpaid. This time I demanded to speak to a Manager who reviewed the account and corrected the errors. He did apologise this time and admitted they needed to upgrade their systems.

A few months later I tried to pay my account and was told my account didn't exist. Only after several calls did I find I was talking to a person in Melbourne. It seems my Queensland account was not recognised by their computer!! Eventually it was paid .
Dieter B - 7, October, 2011 (9:39)

Unscrupulous sales people do prey on senior people. The South Australian Government has a publication called “Savvy Seniors” which provides consumer information to seniors to prevent them being exploited. Some of the information is already well known but the booklet is a handy review of our rights and a warning against marketing scams and other techniques. It is a useful booklet and can be downloaded at http://www.ocba.sa.gov.au/assets/files/savvy_seniors.pdf .

Other states probably have something similar.

I am a new contributor to this blog. I was attracted by the variety of topics but it seems that after a week all comments are deleted and we are left with just the headings. This is not normal for blogs which can have numerous topics open at any time. Seeing the topic introduction with no comments at all looks strange to me. Can anyone tell me why this happens?

Thanks.
Allen - 7, October, 2011 (9:39)

We've had numerous door to door Electricity salesmen over the last few years but not so many lately. The common approach is that they are checking to see if we are being overcharged and ask to see our latest bill. Many are young Indian men who are quite polite but insistent. The last time there were two men. The younger one knocked on the door and did the usual spiel and when I told him I wasn't interested in their offer the older man then became quite vocal and insisted they were not there to sell anything just to help me reduce my electricity bill. I told him I was not interested in changing my provider and said goodbye and closed the door. They then left. I believe their approach borders on intimidation and should be subject to stricter controls.

I have also had the Asian computer repair scam on numerous occasions. The normal approach is a phone call which when answered has no one there. Later in the day there is another call and this time it's usually a woman who offers to check my computer for problems at no cost. Once I went along with this to see what happened and after indicating I was unfamiliar with my computer and couldn't follow their instructions another woman came on and tried to direct me without success. Later that day a man called and said he was there to assist but he was unsuccessful and I asked if I could call him back. He gave me his name and an address in North Sydney and a phone number. I promptly called the Police and gave them the details.
Helen - 7, October, 2011 (9:35)

In response to Anne. I contacted the Ombudsman who told me that nothing was wrong with Integral's billing procedure. Our bill had been outrageously high from the time we moved in and is cheaper now, so how do they explain this? Sometimes we were away for five to six weeks and it hardly made any difference at all. We even turned everything off that was not needed as well.

It seemed strange indeed when AGL as well as me were told that there was no box at our address, when the man came and checked it each billing period.

The proof of the pudding was that our bill is cheaper now. Perhaps there are some lousy salespeople out there re power providers but we are quite happy with our arrangement.

I found the best deal myself by phoning around this time around. Most were similar but only AGL offered the 7% discount as well as the pensioner discount. If as I mentioned before after two years it changes, I will phone around again. Being in control oneself is the key to anything.

I hate anyone who forces product at me (or religion) at my door and make it quite clear that I'm not interested.

The shopping centres are always flogging something. I just rush past like the rabbit in Alice in wonderland and smile sweetly and say no thanks as I rush by. (It works every time!)

Perhaps Anne should look into some of the private checkers of our boxes as I don't think they always do the right thing. Interestingly Integral got rid of the ones checking at the time and put on new ones. No-one ever admits fault and it's always up to us to prove it or "get out". It's the only way to hurt them, by taking business elsewhere...
Dorothy Crouch - 7, October, 2011 (9:04)

A young man called on me at 6.45pm which did not make me at all receptive to his speel. I acted dumb.I did not know where my last bill was, I didn't know what discount I received. After a few of these answers he gave up and left.
My latest caller has been from the "Master Builders Association wanting to clean my tiled roof at a "very reasonable cost" Who has had one of these.
Together with all the phone calls, usually a person of unaustralian families I have "Had it".
Lyn D - 7, October, 2011 (8:56)

I had a gentleman try to pressure me to change my electricity company while I was working in the backyard so I could not shut the door on him. I told him I was not interested and I had to repeatedly ask him to leave my property then when he wouldn't,finally threaten to call the police if he did not leave. He did eventually.
Bopb B - 7, October, 2011 (8:47)

Thank you Helen for your understanding. Sometimes the mind and the fingers seem to be worlds apart!!
Glenn - 7, October, 2011 (8:18)

I had a gentleman offer to clean up my garden, remove tree cuttings and mow the grass for only $700; after a bit of 'no waying" on my part he came down to $350 because I was a senior. I got rid if him and engaged a local lad who charged me $20. It pays to argue the point.
Greg - 7, October, 2011 (7:51)

We have had a stream of these people who vigorously suggest they are the cheapest. My solution is to say that I never respond to door to door sales people and that I continually compare energy proveiders on the web. I thanks them for calling and close the door. They don't ague.
John McNamara - 7, October, 2011 (7:35)

i had the same experience with a rep from agl i told her i was not interested but she kept on pressuring and in the end had to close the door on her before she would go it was very stressful.
John Hunter - 7, October, 2011 (7:35)

Agl are the worst in our area.
They don't seem to understand the word "NO"!
Numerous canvasers have been to our units, AGL, most of all.
Now, not having success at the door, they are by all of these companies to get you away from your current provider.checked them out online, I find that they are not offering anything others are offering and regardless of what they say, prices will jump as soon as they have you under contract.
It's all "Smoke and Mirrors"
Geoff - 7, October, 2011 (7:19)

I had a salesman approach me to switch companies. After his spiel and my saying that I was not interested, he opened his folder and asked me to sign that "HE HAD VISITED MY RESIDENCE". What he presented to me was the blank 'authority to switch' to his company, Integral Energy. Had I been even slightly sight impaired, or more trusting that I am, I may have signed. This needs to be addressed by ACCC.
Anne Whitehouse - 7, October, 2011 (7:15)

Energy Assured is an industry body which is being set up to monitor and improve door to door standards for energy sales.

The scheme commences in January and includes a Code of Practice with standards of behaviour for sales agents, marketing companies and energy retailers.

Sales agents who fail to comply with the standards can be deregistered which means they will not be able to sell for an energy retailer for five years. A range of sanctions can also be imposed on energy marketers and energy retailers by an independent code panel.

The energy industry is committed to improving the door to door experience for all customers.

We will be working with National Seniors and several consumer organisations to ensure that needs of vulnerable customers are considered.

Customers who have a poor experience, should contact the energy retailer in the first instance and if they are unable to resolve the issue, customers can contact the energy ombudsman in their state.

Anne Whitehouse
Chief Executive Officer
Energy Assured Limited
Lorikeet - 7, October, 2011 (7:07)

If we all stick with AGL, a company which has the capacity to offer better deals than anyone else, eventually the competition could be wiped out, and then they could charge us anything they liked.

This is why I mostly shop at the Supa IGA, rather than Coles and Woolworths. There's nothing to stop very large corporations from doing a sweetheart deal with one another, after wiping out the rest of the competition.

I think it is best to take a long range view of these issues, and would like to hear from everyone who has had a good experience with smaller energy companies, so we will know where to direct our custom.
Lorikeet - 7, October, 2011 (7:01)

The most trouble I have ever had was with a Middle Eastern manufacturer of skin care products named Seacret.

Their young people were pouncing on shoppers in malls, to the point where lots of people complained to the Centre Management, including me.

They even grabbed people's hands and started filing their nails without their consent.

The spokeswoman for Centre Management said her greatest difficulty lay in getting the complainants' names so the Director of Seacret could speak with them.

So I gave my name, and when he phoned me and tried to say his people were not a problem, I set him straight in no uncertain terms, since I had already asked the Centre Management what their rules were.

Seacret are in the shopping malls for months at a time, particularly prior to Christmas. I think they have finally learned their lesson, because I haven't had any problem with unwanted approaches this time.
Helen - 7, October, 2011 (7:00)

We have lived where we are for only two years and where we were before, reps from AGL came by with a deal for two years. We could pay monthly and at the end of the year an estimate was made. We also got a 7% discount as well as a pensioner discount. It was great!

When we moved here our provider was Integral. We had nothing but trouble with them and they were estimating our usage from the last residents and it was costing us much more. I rang around and now we are with AGL again with the same deal for two years.

We are also paying less. when AGL tried to switch for us, they were told that we didn't have a meter and that no-one lived at this address. We had to wait again for the next billing to switch again.

We have found AGL very good and if we can have the same deal when the two year contract runs out, then we will stay.

It is in the end up to the customer to be ever vigil. Not all smaller providers are that good either. We can phone around (just like insurance companies etc) and get the best deal. It just takes a little effort but the rewards are good in the end.

Our bill is lower now and we pay monthly and it just comes out automatically. We still get a statement so can keep check on what is happening and don't notice our power at all. We pay $95 a month. At the end of the cycle, if we use less, we pay less. If we use more, our payments either stay the same of go up very slightly. It's worth checking out. We would not have known about this deal except for the person who came around some years ago now at our last home.

I think Bob meant "feeble" but who cares, just a typo that we all do at times. I understood what you meant Bob.
Cheers...
L C Blegg - 7, October, 2011 (5:51)

Yes, one particular company is very deceptive in its manner at your front door. I have contacted the company and requested tht they do not hassle us. It works for a while.
Lorikeet - 6, October, 2011 (16:41)

http://www.aph.gov.au/house/committee/jscacefl/subs/Sub007DLP.pdf
Lorikeet - 6, October, 2011 (16:38)

Joint Select Committee on Australia’s Clean Energy Future Legislation

http://www.aph.gov.au/house/committee/jscacefl/index.htm
Lorikeet - 6, October, 2011 (16:35)

I think it is important for us to remember that the government automatically switched us all to AGL, trading on the ASX as AGK. This is a very large corporation. Maybe we should all consider switching to small to medium service providers, so AGL doesn't end up running a monopoly after undercutting everyone else.

Bob B:

Did you know that "febrile" means having a fever or being very nervous? Did you mean some other word?
Lorikeet - 6, October, 2011 (16:24)

I would like to see very strict measures for stopping liars coercing residents of any age, whether by telephone, in shopping malls or at their front door. I think even harsher penalties should be applied to those who deliberately deceive elderly and other susceptible people.

A number of representatives of electricity companies have come to my door, but I have quickly turned them away.

I was once also lied to by someone representing Foxtel, saying if I didn't get a connection immediately, it would cost me an extra $400 at a later date.

Luckily I can easily pick a liar at a thousand paces.

I find I have more trouble with people from Asia trying to convince me there is a problem with my computer. Sometimes I even get 2 calls in one day.

I have also seen a lot of concern expressed on current affairs programs regarding the compulsory installation of some kind of "smart" electricity meters, which also involve large scale ripoffs of customers occurring.

There are also numerous complaints about internet service providers cheating customers of money and giving them a hard time.

This is what happens when the government corporatises/privatises its income producing assets and utilities, of which both Labor and Liberals are guilty.

They underpay workers, move work offshore, rob ordinary citizens and break the law in various ways. This all seems to be fine with both Juliar Gillard and Kevin-O-Dudd.
Bob B - 6, October, 2011 (14:48)

Two and a half years ago Company A convinced me through a door-to-door salesperson to switch. The bait was a 10% discount and the contract applied for 2 years. This process was a little pressured but controllable. I think an older less alert person might have felt very pressured. However, it worked well.

Just after the two year mark having just received a letter saying we were back to a low percentage discount and before I could call them to negotiate a better deal with Company A, Company B knocked on the door.

Company B was not a heavy pressure deal at all but a lovely young thing that made me carefull not to be unduely influenced. She quite tickled my fancy. She wanted to see my last bill but I would not comply until I had been convinced of a better deal as I knew the rates in my head having partially prepared for the negotiation with Company A. I held firm and got a 10% discount along with an additional 6 cent rebate on the Government 44 cent rebate for solar power. The papers were completed on the spot with a cooling off period well pointed out. Again the contract is for 2 years and I am happy with the outcome.

How would an older less mentally febrile person have gone? All I can say is that if you don't feel comfortable ask them to leave immediately if they get inside or just cease discussion, ask to leave the property and close the door. Just overtalk them as its not rude to do so once they have crossed the barrier.

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Comments (144)

Robyn - 13, October, 2011 (13:51)

Lorikeet - 13, October, 2011 (13:13)

Lorikeet - 13, October, 2011 (13:10)

Robyn - 13, October, 2011 (12:02)

Robyn - 13, October, 2011 (11:49)

ETS - 13, October, 2011 (11:48)

Currawong - 13, October, 2011 (11:31)

ETS - 13, October, 2011 (11:09)

Lorikeet - 13, October, 2011 (11:03)

Lorikeet - 13, October, 2011 (11:01)

Lorikeet - 13, October, 2011 (10:50)

Lorikeet - 13, October, 2011 (10:32)

Robyn - 13, October, 2011 (10:30)

Robyn - 13, October, 2011 (9:11)

Robyn - 13, October, 2011 (8:55)

Bob B - 13, October, 2011 (8:44)

Brian Storm - 13, October, 2011 (8:05)

Lorikeet - 13, October, 2011 (7:15)

Kay Kelly - 13, October, 2011 (6:38)

Kay Kelly - 13, October, 2011 (6:30)

Lorikeet - 13, October, 2011 (6:22)

Lorikeet - 13, October, 2011 (6:07)

Monitor - 12, October, 2011 (23:16)

IanMelb - 12, October, 2011 (21:58)

IanMelb - 12, October, 2011 (21:45)

Pammy - 12, October, 2011 (21:32)

pammy - 12, October, 2011 (21:24)

Pammy - 12, October, 2011 (21:19)

Lorikeet - 12, October, 2011 (20:11)

Monitor - 12, October, 2011 (19:35)

Robyn - 12, October, 2011 (19:31)

ETS - 12, October, 2011 (18:30)

WEG - 12, October, 2011 (18:30)

Lorikeet - 12, October, 2011 (18:07)

Lorikeet - 12, October, 2011 (18:04)

Lorikeet - 12, October, 2011 (18:00)

ETS - 12, October, 2011 (17:55)

Lorikeet - 12, October, 2011 (17:41)

Monitor - 12, October, 2011 (17:16)

Bob B - 12, October, 2011 (16:28)

Helen - 12, October, 2011 (16:27)

Helen - 12, October, 2011 (16:23)

Robyn - 12, October, 2011 (15:17)

Helen - 12, October, 2011 (15:11)

Currawong - 12, October, 2011 (13:55)

ETS - 12, October, 2011 (11:49)

Currawong - 12, October, 2011 (11:21)

Monitor - 12, October, 2011 (11:21)

Robyn - 12, October, 2011 (10:38)

Lorikeet - 12, October, 2011 (9:43)

Lorikeet - 12, October, 2011 (9:40)

Helen - 12, October, 2011 (7:41)

Lorikeet - 12, October, 2011 (6:50)

WEG - 11, October, 2011 (22:38)

Monitor - 11, October, 2011 (21:56)

Lorikeet - 11, October, 2011 (21:40)

Wayne - 11, October, 2011 (21:29)

Lorikeet - 11, October, 2011 (20:26)

pammy - 11, October, 2011 (17:21)

Lorikeet - 11, October, 2011 (16:05)

Lorikeet - 11, October, 2011 (16:02)

Lorikeet - 11, October, 2011 (16:02)

pammy - 11, October, 2011 (13:07)

Brian Storm - 11, October, 2011 (12:33)

Dieter B - 11, October, 2011 (11:36)

ETS - 11, October, 2011 (10:58)

Robyn - 11, October, 2011 (10:27)

Lorikeet - 11, October, 2011 (6:19)

Bob B - 11, October, 2011 (5:42)

Monitor - 10, October, 2011 (23:02)

Monitor - 10, October, 2011 (22:47)

Robyn - 10, October, 2011 (21:23)

Lorikeet - 10, October, 2011 (20:24)

Lorikeet - 10, October, 2011 (20:17)

WEG - 10, October, 2011 (18:59)

Monitor - 10, October, 2011 (17:43)