Curtsey to the Queen

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Curtsey to the Queen

27 Oct

Curtsey to the Queen

27, Oct, 2011 (2:46 PM)
Prime Minister Julia Gillard and Queensland Premier Anna Bligh have been criticised this week in the media for failing to curtsey to the Queen.

Do you think national and state leaders should perform what many believe is a show of respect and deference to their head of state and thereby set an example to other women?

Or is it acceptable to perform only a small bow, nod of the head or handshake in keeping with the protocol of their political party and their personal preference?

Disclaimer: The views expressed in these blogs are not necessarily those of National Seniors Australia. This blog is moderated and any content deemed inappropriate by the administrator will be removed, including comments that are offensive or discriminatory; libellous or defamatory; breach copyright, unless we have the owner’s permission to use it; or contain personal or commercially confidential material. Personal attacks will be deleted by the moderator. The use of this blog to broadcast overtly party-political messages is also prohibited. The moderator’s decision is final and no correspondence will be entered into. Any personal details shared here are public and can be found on internet searches.

This blog is now closed.

Comments (255)

ETS - 3, November, 2011 (14:04)

Hi Laurakeet, can I give you the same suggestion I gave Lorikeet the other day? You don't have to explain your name to us. Whatever you want to call yourself is your business alone. If other people take issue with you name, that is their problem, not yours.
Laurakeet - 3, November, 2011 (10:41)

I meant better uses of the budget surpluses than Howard paying off much of the public foreign debt.

Editing for the 160 word limit made it sound a bit ambiguous.
Laurakeet - 3, November, 2011 (10:38)

You are right Lorikeet. Public debt is not the same as total national debt. I often wondered whether Howard paying off the debt was the best use of budget surpluses.

Your name could well be Lori, in which case it is as close to your alias as mine is. If you are not Lori my point is valid.

My husband called me Laurakeet years ago when I complained once while on holidays about noisy lorikeets disturbing my sleep. The nickname just stuck. You can accept it as a compliment if you like. I’d rather you did that than have you being annoyed about it. There is too much crankiness in the world already.

When you think about it, it would not be good if Australia had no foreign debt. It would mean the rest of the world had no confidence in investing in Australia. Our small population means much needed investment and development funds must come from external sources.
Lorikeet - 3, November, 2011 (9:52)

That's right, but lots of people falsely believe that Liberals paid off the national debt when they were in government. They think a budget surplus is the same as having no foreign debt.

I'm not sure what makes you think Laurakeet is closer to your real name than mine is. You don't even know my name. This is not very intelligent. My name could be Lori, couldn't it.

But I will accept your copycat name as a compliment.
Laurakeet - 3, November, 2011 (8:29)

Lorikeet, don't you mean budget deficit and national debt? It is very easy to distinguish between a surplus and a debt.

A budget deficit is also quite different from the national debt, but I will stop the lecture there because I am sure you know that already.
Lorikeet - 2, November, 2011 (20:32)

Bob B:

You lumped yourself into that category. I didn't help you to go there.

When discussing socialism, it is of course a matter of degree, as it is with other matters. To provide public housing for the poor and disadvantaged is good social policy, but at the other end of the scale we had, for example, the United Soviet Socialist Republic (USSR) i.e. a communist nation.

I posted the graphs on escalating foreign debt because very often some people seem to become confused between a budget surplus and national debt.

I believe this nation needs to pay down debt, not borrow even more funds to reimburse the poor for the high cost of a Carbon Tax.
Bob B - 2, November, 2011 (19:27)

ETS

Greed and a poorly regulated market economy are also too me the prime causes of the GFC and that seems to be the view put forward by most reputable articles in the media. This is after all where we get most of our information: we just hav to sort the wheat out from the chaf.
Bob B - 2, November, 2011 (19:22)

Yes, people are certainly entitled to express their opinion but along with that 'right' goes responsibility of ownership.

When I keep being offered the view that only some (who are named) can act responsibly and the others (which by default includes me) are neo-communist left etc etc it gets a bit offensive. I'm certainly neither left of neo communist. With the ups go the downs and I see a lot said on this blog that would not stand scrutiny under proper judgement. I suggest we all take a good look at what has been said on this topic about courtesy and respect being principles we want to see in society and follow that guide for its a good healthy and honest approach.

Please be nice little vegimites children in the next topic.
ETS - 2, November, 2011 (19:19)

Brian, thanks from me as well for your comment. As WEG said, you hit the mark.

WEG, thanks also for finding that paragraph. I knew I had not imagined it but having read it again, I probably read more into it than was really there. You did not say socialism so I was wrong about that. But we will still have to differ about the influence of “socialist” government policies. I still put the prime cause down to human greed and a market economy that was not effectively regulated more than anything else.

All is good as far as I am concerned.
Lorikeet - 2, November, 2011 (17:24)

As I see it, socialism and concomitant economic rationalism were both causes of the GFC, which is still not over yet.

It seems to me that every time the Carbon Tax is to be discussed in the parliament, scaremongers on the TV start talking up economic doom and gloom in the EEU and sometimes in the USA. I have taken this as a warning to our politicians that if a Carbon Tax isn't passed forthwith, a double dip recession will follow.

I find nothing wrong with WEG's communication style or his opinion. At least he delivers it in a respectful manner, unlike those who support the neo-communist left.

Some people could take a leaf out of the books of both Brian Storm and WEG, and lift their own game. If some of us can get along okay despite differing political opinions, everyone else should be capable of doing the same.
WEG - 2, November, 2011 (16:53)

Brian Storm – Thanks – you’ve hit the mark.

This was my commentand there was a good debate that followed.

“As I understand it (very simplistic view), the Wall Street crash was a result of US Government socialist policy and sponsorship of public housing. Fannie May & Freddie Mac were the private corp. vehicles used to secure mortgages but when inflated US house property values crashed, so did the securities. These securities were on sold to the world, hence the contagion.”

I was not critical of this policy. I categorically ascribe too and support public housing policy in Aust.

All is good, hopefully.
Bob B - 2, November, 2011 (16:09)

And in the red corner we have WEG and in the blue corner ETS. On the count of three, come out and shake hands and ......

Come on guys the point has been made, we seniors are over crying over spilt milk or who has the biggest.
Brian Storm - 2, November, 2011 (15:45)

ETS, I recall a comment a couple of weeks back about the GFC resulting from socialism, or a socialist attitude to public housing, something along those lines. I also thought it was from WEG but I’m not sure it was as strident as you describe. It stuck in my mind because that thought would never have occurred to me and because you responded in a fairly strong manner.

But in view of WEG’s strong denials, I may be ascribing it to the wrong person.
ETS - 2, November, 2011 (15:02)

I guess we'll just have to agree to differ. Your gatekeeper tag is like the old Nazi line on other blogs - a sign of a lost argument. I suspect you are a bit like George Brandis, playing cute games with words to get out of admitting he called the former PM a lying rodent.

But I digress. Of course if you were to specifically deny every writing that socialism was a cause of the GFC then I would have no choice but to accept your word for it. I won't go down the other path.

I do agree with you that it was a pretty stupid thing to write.

Yawn right back at ya buddy.

PS I see you've dropped your claim of some months ago that you never had identified (and never would) those you were calling gatekeepers. Or are you going to deny that one as well?
WEG - 2, November, 2011 (14:51)

Whatever.
I can't argue with you anymore. Yawn.

What are your motives my buddy & friend and master gatekeeper?
ETS - 2, November, 2011 (13:28)

You may retain your input WEG but you must have lost this one. You clearly put the blame for the GFC onto socialism. You can deny it all you like my friend but I know you wrote it and I suspect in your heart you know it too.
WEG - 2, November, 2011 (13:25)

Nup, wrong again ETS. I retain my input. No such mention of what you're suggesting. Not sure what your agenda is but you're barking up the wrong tree.
ETS - 2, November, 2011 (13:11)

Read my comment WEG, I said you blamed it on socialists. Surely you recall your comment, it was not that long ago. What a shame they scrub the blog, otherwise I could direct you to your comment.

I would suggest your criticism of the ALP is so wide ranging across the issues we discuss that it is based more on your opinions than on merit. That is fair enough of course, that is your right. I was pointing out the trend in your comments over a long period of time.

That's all.
WEG - 2, November, 2011 (12:52)

ETS

Just to clarify some of your points.

My criticism of the ALP is judged on merit, and more importantly the contagion / coalition with those Greens. They need to be lanced for the ALP to return to some normality.

I have never blamed ALP for GFC, even typing it does not make any sense!!. Maybe you have me confused with someone else.
ETS - 2, November, 2011 (12:50)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-02/government-to-abolish-super-age-cap/3615178

The Government is to abolish the superannuation cap for people over 70 who want to continue working. This is good news for seniors and removes a discrimination against older workers.
Laurakeet - 2, November, 2011 (12:44)

Lorikeet, you said you were going to ignore me. You raised the issue of why you are called Lorikeet so don’t get so upset when people respond to your claims. Don’t try to deny it by passing it onto someone else’s general comment. If you don’t want it discussed, don’t write about it. All I did was reply in the same manner of seriousness. No disrespect at all.

Since you value accuracy, please note I am not using your name. I am using my own nom de plume and it shows your own double standards if you can’t accept that. I will guarantee my nom de plume is closer to my real name than yours is. But I will curtsey in your direction if we ever do meet.

As for QANTAS, this matter is far from over. I can see it coming around again when the 21 day negotiation period is over.
ETS - 2, November, 2011 (12:27)

Lorikeet, I read your link on foreign debt. Interesting information, but did you have a specific point to make about it?

This 160 word limit is a real pain. Moderator, would you please put a word counter on the blog so we know the limit.

Thanks.
ETS - 2, November, 2011 (12:26)

That's right WEG, Coalition good, ALP bad, no matter what the issue is. Damn socialists, you even blamed the GFC on them a couple of weeks ago. Right on, buddy.

It seems to me the Government did not fumble the ball at all. It looks like they had no more notice or warning about it than the Opposition had. Slightly more notice than the travelling public had, that's all. The timing looks deliberate to maximise the inconvenience to the public over a weekend.

Abbott was doing his usual spin thing blaming everything on alleged Government ineptitude. This time they hit the spin back into his face and, blow me down, he didn't like it at all. I wonder if this might be a turning point.

But I do agree with your point that the unions and QANTAS could have handled it much better if either side had wanted to.
Lorikeet - 2, November, 2011 (12:25)

Person Using My Name:

If you re-read the comment thread, you will see that I didn't introduce the argument over whether or not we should use our real names. I will not answer you again, because you behave in a disrespectful fashion towards other bloggers.

Parakeet:

I don't blame you for being angry, but it was up to Julia Gillard to deal with the Qantas matter before things got out of hand.

What we are seeing is Labor/Libs corporate mates throwing a tantrum and bringing public transport to a halt, in order to force slave wages onto Australian workers.

Any decent government would have brought the issue to arbitration much sooner.

I've seen the same thing happening first hand in Aged Care, but this time the perpetrators were The Macquarie Bank and Kevin Rudd.

Even after 11 years of a Liberal government under Howard, wages were not lifted to attract more people to aged care jobs.
Lorikeet - 2, November, 2011 (12:14)

WEG:

Both Labor and Liberals support corporatisation. Did you read my link on foreign debt?

Some people might like to vote in this poll regarding Occupy being moved out of Brisbane Post Office Square by police.

I support their protest, but I wish they hadn't done any damage to public property.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/occupy-brisbane-protestor-condemns-eviction-20111102-1mudi.html#poll

I intend to ignore the nitpickers who would rather pick than become informed.
WEG - 2, November, 2011 (11:55)

At least the Queen got away with no fuss, with a nod, handshake and small bow of the head.

Innocent commuters – yes.
All sides at fault – Unions and QANTAS – yes, but don’t forget the Fed Govn had a role to play but fumbled the ball.

Goodbye QANTAS means no jobs! Well, cut my nose off to spite my face!!

Blame Abbott / Hockey!! Why? They’re not the Fed Govn. last time I looked.
Parakeet - 2, November, 2011 (10:12)

There is nothing that warranted the suffering of the innocent commuters in this deal on an "International scale".

All the excuses under the sun will not make it right for anyone invlolved in such a scandal.

It is much worse than anything that has happened so far. All sides were wrong and now there looks like there is a third side to this arguement. The truth will reveal itself, wait and see.

Joyce wants any excuse to move Qantas O/S, Abbott/Hockey want ultimate power, and the Unions, just want their way. The sufferers here - the Commuters! Good-bye Qantas!!
Parakeet - 2, November, 2011 (9:10)

All together now - SACK HOCKEY, SACK ABBOTT & SACK JOYCE.

More drownings - I hope the Liberal party are happy with their decision here as well.

I used to support toe Libs, but not in their present form.
Laurakeet - 2, November, 2011 (8:55)

Why mention it in the first place? You are only asking for comments, or perhaps seeking attention?

As I said, you raised the subject.
Lorikeet - 2, November, 2011 (8:54)

You might want to read this if you have nothing better to do than pick on other people:

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/rp/2008-09/09rp30.htm

The graphs on foreign debt are well worth a look.

Parakeet:

In that case, you will need to go into Parliament House and toss nearly everyone out of the windows.

The decision to send the Qantas matter to arbitration was certainly overdue. I suggest we all wait expectantly for the outcome, but don't be surprised if the workers receive another kick in the guts.
Lorikeet - 2, November, 2011 (8:51)

Person Using My Name:

It is pretty clear that YOU think I am important. In contrast, I think every Australian is important.

I was responding to some other nitpicking person who thinks we should have to use our real names.

Only my son knows what his clearance is, and he has never divulged it to anyone. He is also not one of the people that terrorists would want to pull the toenails out of, and even if he was, he would NOT tell them anything.

I am not a paranoid person. You don't know me, and my guess is that you have no qualifications in that area anyway.

I don't why so many people on this blog behave as if they have someone in hobnail boots treading on their corns all day long.
Laurakeet - 2, November, 2011 (8:36)

Lorikeet, you raised the subject. My response is no more nonsense than your message. The paranoia that you are so important is completely over the top. I was only replying in a similar manner.

If you don't want to invite comments, don't mention it in the first place.
Parakeet - 2, November, 2011 (7:45)

The warnings were there as a "possible" but was kept deliberatly from the government. HOCKEY should be SACKED immediatly and if anyone else knew they should be sacked too.

The government acted quickly thank goodness and everything could have been worse for workers and the flying public. AND all this to gain office at any cost! I am disgusted with everyone involved in this (and they know who they are!)

As many Seniors were also caught up in all this at great cost to health and person, National Seniors should follow-up on this information as a priority please.
Lorikeet - 2, November, 2011 (7:30)

Alan Joyce shut down the airline and tried his best to encourage stranded passengers to blame everything on the workers, because he is being paid a huge sum of money to kneecap Australians.

Although some passengers were very angry, I think most understood it was just another attempt by the government (both sides) to empower corporates over government and people.

Those who have had relatives living in a corporate run aged care centre will know what I mean. Even if investigators come in and then organise an impromptu visit by accreditation workers to check that improvements have been made, some ghoul in the Department of Health and Ageing tips the service provider off!
Lorikeet - 2, November, 2011 (7:28)

Parakeet:

I think both Labor and Liberals knew what the plan was: to screw over the workers and let corporates rip off the service recipients (passengers), workers and shareholders.

Both Labor and Liberals have a track record of supporting corporatisation, along with the wholesale rip off of the community across the board. Those who live in Queensland will have had a pile of large bills in their mailboxes in the last few weeks. I have no reason to believe the same isn't occurring in other states.

Both parties support a Slave Labor Trade using foreign workers and high school students.

This is why I will only vote for patriots of our own nation, who are willing to treat all workers well and on an equal financial footing.
Parakeet - 2, November, 2011 (7:13)

When Joe Hockey was asked if he had been privy to the Qantas debarcle over the week-end (before it happened) and was part of "secret" meetings with Alan Joyce as an advisor, he didn't know what to say.

If he knew then ALL the Libs knew, including Abbott. If this leak of info is true then there should be a number of resignations in my opinion, starting at the top.

The strike was designed to embarrass the government. It failed but caused stress and pain for so many. The Liberal party must answer these questions and we should hear more. If it is true and looking at Hockey's face last night, it is, then "BRING IT ON" please!

HOW AWFUL ARE THEY!!
Lorikeet - 1, November, 2011 (21:09)

That's a load of rubbish. I suggest you find someone else's name to use, and someone else to pick on.
Laurakeet - 1, November, 2011 (18:41)

Having outed herself and her son, Lorikeet has created a serious international security concern. Intelligence agencies around the world will now be using their sources to identify this Lorikeet who was a cub scout leader so they can identify her son who is our defence against Russia and China. ASIO will also have an interest in finding out who Lorikeet is so they can also track down her son and hold him accountable for the information Lorikeet puts in her messages. It is obviously from a secure source and Lorikeet’s confession puts it all into perspective.

Lorikeet would do well to remember the war slogan “loose lips sink ships”. Better not to have said anything in the first place.
Lorikeet - 1, November, 2011 (18:35)

I didn't use any "equine expertise" because I don't have any. According to numerologists and astrologers, I was born on the Day of Visionary.

I agree that the Governor General is a wonderful woman. Her bearing and adherence to protocol are unsurpassed by anyone.
ETS - 1, November, 2011 (16:08)

Agreed Bob. I've always thought she is an impressive Governor General. When we do become a republic I would be happy to have her as our first President.

Congratulations Lorikeet on tipping the Cup winner. I am in awe of your excellent equine expertise. My numbers theory proved to be useless.
Bob B - 1, November, 2011 (15:13)

Today at the Melbourne Cup I thought the GG spoke very freely and very elegantly in a way that appealled to all. There was no curtsey or nodding just plain old courtesy and respect for people up and down the chain. That's all that is necessary in any modern society and not just between higher levels and the rest of us but between all peoples. It was nice to see.
Bob B - 1, November, 2011 (15:09)

In my day in the military, to let others know of your security clearance status was a breach in itself. It was something not spoken about.
ETS - 1, November, 2011 (13:04)

You don't have to give a reason why you call yourself Lorikeet, Lorikeet. Whatever name we choose, whether it is full names, partial names, initials or pseudonyms, is a matter for the individual and is nobody else's business.
Lorikeet - 1, November, 2011 (12:49)

I used to use my real name when blogging, but because I have a son who has to keep the Chinese and Russians out of our security systems, I now use the name I had as a Cub Scout Leader so no one gets the false impression that my opinions come from him. He is sworn to secrecy in his job.

I can only practise what I preach when other people don't call me names such as Liarkeet and Tarantula, or when they don't say that I have a Paranoid Personality Disorder etc etc.

There would be very few problems with this blog if the Moderator actually did the job, which is why I have recommended a Blog Moderators' Course.
ETS - 1, November, 2011 (12:49)

I wonder how many people curtsey to the Queen's representative in Australia, the Governor General. If it is an option for the GG as it is for the Queen, nobody seems to get agitated about it at all when people don't curtsey for the GG.

Speaking of GGs, as today's date is 01-11-11, I suppose the numbers people will back horses (Americain) and 11 (Precedence). Or it could be barriers 1 (Illo) and 11 (Lucas Cranach). There, four horses, based entirely on scientific analysis of the field.

Good luck everyone.
Bob B - 1, November, 2011 (8:52)

Rather than discuss the blogging rules on the blog, can people please take that up seperately as requested by National Seniors. We don't need to see this 'discussion'. If the 'umpire' judges it not to be pertinent then so be it!!

When we participate in the blog we subliminally accept the 'terms and conditions' and that means how the blog operates. If you don't like it and the umpire makes no change upon request then you don't have to participate. To do otherwise subjects us all to unnecessary dialogue.
Kay Kelly - 1, November, 2011 (7:07)

I fully support ETS's comment to all bloggers to practice what they preach! A worthy sentiment to live by. I hope all bloggers live by that thought.

I always use my real name on blogs to make sure that I am comfortable with everything I say, and would be more than comfortable to meet in person anyone else on the blog. That is not to say that others shouldn't use pen names (pen names are fun), but that is the philosophy I use.

But hey, I'm off topic again!
Richard - 31, October, 2011 (21:43)

I have seen horses curtsy at the Royal Easter Show so I suppose we are still on topic???

Not that I care much for this topic.

Have to say I enjoy the banter between bloggers. Keep it up because it keeps me interested.
Lorikeet - 31, October, 2011 (19:37)

I don't claim to know anything much about horse racing, but here are my tips for the Melbourne Cup. Maybe go for an each way bet:

Dunaden or Manighar
ETS - 31, October, 2011 (17:13)

With respect, as a general comment not directed at anyone in particular, practice what you preach and we will all be better off.
Lorikeet - 31, October, 2011 (16:51)

PERSONAL ATTACKS

If someone says something you disagree with, it is okay to give an alternative opinion. It is not okay to make fun of other bloggers, or to attack them at a personal level.

The Moderator of most blogs checks the comments before they go up, deleting any name calling, bad language and attempts by people to turn the blog into a circus.

Closing down the blog certainly isn't necessary when the moderator actually MODERATES the blog. Warnings are not enough.

Some blogs have a comment limit, such as 2 comments on each topic per day, with a total of 5 comments per day. This ensures the Moderator has time to complete other daily tasks.

When a blog is well moderated, there is no need to delete all of the comments at the end of the week, or to close the topic down suddenly.
Bob B - 31, October, 2011 (15:51)

I view the situation as to talk to the whole class about 'some' naughty children. Its a good tactic that will hopefully bring a nice free flowing blog of useful comment laced still with a little of natures good humour for good health. If we reflect on ourselves for a moment most would agree that the talk was necessary. So now lets aim to be the best class in the school of hard knocks, heavens knows we have all been there.
Kay Kelly - 31, October, 2011 (15:46)

If a 160 word limit applies, I sincerely hope there is a word count that appears as you type. The SBS Blog counts as you type so you know when you have exceeded the allowed number. Saves you from unknowingly typing extra words of wisdom, then having to delete them all.

A 160 word limit is not going to be a lot of use in discussing matters of real import! I guess we will just have to do a line of blogs to finish the point!
Lorikeet - 31, October, 2011 (15:43)

Here is a little clue on blogging, which some might find useful in future.

A blog is not a Chat Room, nor is it meant to be treated like a drinking session at the pub, where you carry on in an immature fashion with your friends.

While it is generally okay to interact with other people to discuss related issues someone has raised, it is not a place for a group of people to gang up on the same people every week, and behave like playground bullies.
Robyn - 31, October, 2011 (14:56)

I enjoy Laurakeet's humour. Relates to earlier comments about the Canadian flag. Wanted to respond to Laurakeet but after also receiving (and responding to) the email am afraid to say anything to anyone anymore. Agree with you entirely Helen.
ETS - 31, October, 2011 (14:40)

Like Helen and Kay, I’ve also received and replied to an email about the future of the blog. I prefer to think of it as a guidance message at this stage about how we blog. Closing the blog would certainly be an extreme and I believe unnecessary reaction to complaints. So let’s not jump the gun and start farewelling each other just yet.

This 160 word restriction is going to be a bit of a pain. Probably have to send a lot more messages now.

I’m looking forward to a brand new topic next Thursday that will excite our intellects and imaginations.
ETS - 31, October, 2011 (14:38)

Well if Robyn and Bob B are renouncing their royal titles, that’s good enough for me to remain a humble commoner. Someone has to muck out the stables and work in the scullery. It was fun while it lasted and a good concept for the weekend drinks.

Laurakeet, I’m not sure if you are making a point about our flag… far too subtle for me. All foreign flags are un-Australian by definition so let’s not pick on our kind-hearted Canadian Commonwealth cousins (nice alliteration there) who are always so hospitable to travelling Aussies. I wonder if the Canadians get worked up about curtseys.

A limit of 160 words has suddenly appeared on the blog today. An unnecessary restriction in my opinion. More to follow.
Kay Kelly - 31, October, 2011 (14:35)

I too received the email and have responded to NSA. I had my say on the actual topic on Day 1, so have nothing further to add.

I look forward to next week! 'Bye all!
Helen - 31, October, 2011 (14:11)

There is nothing more to say in regard to our topic and as we are not allowed to talk about anything else, I will sign off for this week.

I have enjoyed our little bit of frivolity on a national scale. This blog might shut down going by an email that I received and if that does happen, it's been great blogging to you all. It does seem though that in the future it will be hard to debate anything, given the rules and if this is the case, I will give it a miss I think. Saying what one thinks will always incite comment from those who disagree and if this is stopped, the bloggers will lose interest anyway.

Better topics would also help or shorter life span for topics to keep the interest going will help to keep everyone on track.

Cheers everyone North, South, East & West xx...
Bob B - 31, October, 2011 (13:33)

King Bob faded away gracefully this morning. A little later than my usual early start but had to be at the Seaway Tower for a shift starting at 0500 this morning. We are all volunteers from Coast Guard and Volunteer Marine Rescue Southport.
Queen Robyn - 31, October, 2011 (13:12)

Continued:

Having said that, I am now bowing (not curtseying) out of the NSA blogs for good as Queen Robyn. If any other Robyn contributes from now on, please differentiate your name from mine.
Queen Robyn - 31, October, 2011 (13:09)

There is similarity between Robert Crampton's comment 28 October 11:19: ".....DUT SERIOUSLY most of you are a bunch of band wagon riders get a life..you have all had enough practise if you really ARE SENIORS?? LOL"

and the Robyn (not me) who wrote at 28 October 18:45: "....I am sick of reading all the comments from everyone, probably from the up and coming next generation who like to get involved in everything just because you do....but actually they have no knowledge of royalty it is just jumping on the bandwagon."

I may be wrong of course, and apologize to you Robert Crampton if I am, but if in fact you did impersonate me on this blog, I find that really "off". It is highly UNETHICAL to pretend to be someone else!
Bob B - 31, October, 2011 (11:11)

Helen

Any major company has a plan in place to steer it through day-to-day as well as unusual activity. Very much an 'if this happens - then we do that' approach. I believe what Qantas did was already planned in this context but the way thing went steered the ultimate actions through what quickly become a maze on paper. Nobody at the outset could foresee the outcome so to say Qantas planned this is a misnoma. If Qantas hadn't planned for the negotiations I would say they are incompetent and deserve to fade away.

I also believe one of the unions tabled an exra-ordinary condition mid to late last week and that was the trigger for the action we saw.

Anyone who has been involved with a serious high cost negotiation knows just how difficult things can be. In this situation Fair Work Australia has made the right decision and one can only hope the negotiations are completed within the 21 days period of non idustrial action.

If the phone call to Julia Gillard is true and I suspect it be so then Julia should have had her team ready to respond - the country doesn't close down because of CHOGM and PM is not available. That is conditional upon Joyce being explicit enough with his explanation to Julia's man on the spot.

A lot of if's and but's here but I suspect not many know the whole story. At least things are returning to normal and one can only hope any collateral damage is minimal.
Helen - 31, October, 2011 (10:15)

Credit to our PM where it is due. The decision to go to the Tribunal was a good one and saved unnecessary court action which would have wasted time and caused a lot more hardship for commuters everywhere.

A good idea too to let a third party work this out away from Government.

Intervention was only called for when the action of the parties involved was unable to be solved and became a threat to the economy. It did show that the work choices legislation does work.

After listening to Dick Smith, it seemed that he was more "privy" to what was coming than those who should have been informed. It was sneaky to wait until after the AGM and pounce the very next day to get maximum affect.

I still do believe that both the unions and Qantas are at fault, for different reasons. I have a feeling Qantas will never recover from all this, perhaps that's what they want! It would leave them free to restructure and to do what they wanted to in the first place O/S. They may become NZ's national airline yet...
Lorikeet - 31, October, 2011 (10:02)

Here's a link on the Qantas debacle.

http://www.thecourier.com.au/news/local/news/general/qantas-flights-likely-to-resume-today/2341174.aspx

On ABC24 a spokesman for the Transport Workers' Union (TWU) stated that Qantas has already been caught out using staff from its Asian subsidiary. Asian cabin staff are paid only $400 per month and have worked on Qantas domestic flights in Australia.

Although Qantas reported an annual profit of $552 million, the actually sum was over $1 billion, written down because of events in Japan (tidal wave) and NZ (earthquake).

The Union official stated that the TWU is already working with efficiencies on the European costs (brought about by EEU costs and regulation), in an effort to return that route to profit.

Laurakeet seems to have lost the plot today.
Laurakeet - 31, October, 2011 (8:44)

The Queen should also straighten out those Canadians and tell them to stop this maple leaf nonsense on their flag right now and go back to the Union Jack. What Canada is doing with its flag is totally un-Australian.
Kay Kelly - 31, October, 2011 (8:25)

My goodness me! I agree with you, Lorikeet! And add Pakistan to that!

Although the Queen is just a figure-head. The real action should come from the CHOGM nations.
Lorikeet - 31, October, 2011 (8:06)

I think the Queen needs to pay greater attention to individual countries within the Commonwealth of Nations, in terms of human rights abuses.

In particular, I would like to see her straighten out Zimbabwe and Sri Lanka, where civil war and starvation seem to be the order of the day.
Helen - 31, October, 2011 (7:27)

Be careful Lorikeet with that one! YOU might be the first one to go!

Any tips for the Melbourne Cup? This is the time of the year when I learn which part of the horse is which and put my $5 on both ends. I need help here PLEASE -

Good to see Qantas back in the air -yaay!

I'm a bit busy this morning so will check in later...
Lorikeet - 30, October, 2011 (20:57)

The moderator should start blocking Green lunatics from this blog.
Queen Robyn - 30, October, 2011 (19:30)

King Bob,

Yes let's have another Royal party. Wasn't last nights do maaarvellous with all our bowing and curtseying and scraping to each other? It was so funny when you fell in a heap doing your deepest of deep curtseys to Princess Kay who was trying to shake your hand at the time. When Princess Helen and Duke ETS practised their swooning and produced the smelling salts things really got rollicking, didn't they? Tonight we have the jester to entertain us.

Prince David really suits. He is also a white knight. Remember, he once slayed the Dowager when she thought she was Goliath. She has sprung back though. I have heard she is running around swinging axes with gay abandon. Do you think it is safe to invite her to our party?

Ian Melb can be our dark knight. I think he will enjoy that post.

How delightfully spiffy this new state of affairs is my good Kingly chap!
Lorikeet - 30, October, 2011 (18:53)

WEG:

Your comments about Anna Bligh's outfit and hat matched my brother's, but on a political program today, someone described Julia Gillard as the Red Queen.

Yes, I think Queen Elizabeth II comes across as a lovely woman with excellent manners, compared with the poor substitutes for royalty running amok on this blog.
WEG - 30, October, 2011 (18:49)

The Balmy Army have a range of songs they sing at cricket venues.
One is “God Save YOUR gracious Queen”.
Their aim is to humour the Aussie crowd as we retain the ‘old country’ connections.
Quite hilarious banter, but it does send the crowd quiet.
King Bob - 30, October, 2011 (18:21)

Queen Robyn

Yes, lets build our court. Your pronouncements thus far are endorsed. Its a pity we don't have a Prince David (Goss) but all he has to do is acknowledge it to be welcome as Prince David.

Break open another bubbly I say!!!
Queen Robyn - 30, October, 2011 (18:11)

Your little sing song poem about Julia Gillard is so sweet!
Queen Robyn - 30, October, 2011 (18:07)

Would you like to be court jester WEG?
WEG - 30, October, 2011 (18:01)

“I did but see her passing by and yet I love her till I die."
Queen Robyn - 30, October, 2011 (17:59)

Dear Kay and Helen,

Of course you can be Princesses if that is your hearts desire? You can't be my children though. Your bushranger and convict blood will be good for the royal blood mix.

Monitor is a Count or Countess. Very fitting post!

ETS you can be a Prince or Princess too if you want but I think Duke ETS sounds charming if you are male and Duchess is dignified if you are female.

If you all want to be Kings and Queens, I am happy to share the top post with all but Lorikeet. She is "The Cranky Dowager".

Now let's have some more champagne :)
Kay Kelly - 30, October, 2011 (16:26)

Helen:

I think I mentioned before that my first husband is German - now Australian. We are still very good friends. My second husband was born in Panama, educated in Barbados and Cambridge, UK. His ancestors were originally Irish (of course!) but kept one step ahead of the law by escaping to the West Indies! What a mixed mob we are!
Helen - 30, October, 2011 (16:16)

It sounds lovely where you are Kay. Perhaps we should all describe where we live. It would be very interesting.

Perhaps there is a title for our dear Monitor of all this mess. As long as his/her age is appropriate of course. We haven't been told what gender our Monitor is have we? Anway I'm sure our exclusive "Royal Family" will have a place. What about it your RHs..

I'm off to cook a good Aussie baked dinner for us and our next door neighbour (who is also German), so I suppose I will have to slip something in that is "multicultural" so cheers until tomorrow...
Kay Kelly - 30, October, 2011 (16:03)

I just came up from hanging out the washing and what did I find on my porch - looking at me in a most quizzical manner - a most glorious lace monitor, about 800 mm long. We looked at each other - I in admiration and affection - and he in horror, thinking "who on earth is that very overweight Princess in an old TShirt and shorts?" Ah, the glory of living in the bush! He ambled off into the garden and I thought "what a beautiful part of the world to live in!" Our house is 400 metres above sea level with a 270 degree view of the Glasshouse Mountains and Moreton Bay - the very Moreton Bay where my German ancestors came ashore about 150 years ago.

Then I thought - maybe this is the elusive Monitor - wondering why my blog count was surpassing even Lorikeet's! Was that you, Monitor? What a handsome devil you are!
Helen - 30, October, 2011 (15:09)

With nine convicts on my father's side alone, I would not worry at all about that Kay.

From my studies of our early white settlement, most gentry were sent here in the beginning because they disgraced themselves and were banished so as not to offend the family, so I wouldn't worry. Some of them were bigger crooks than the others.

Mine were mere children, except for Thos Akers who was 25 so I wouldn't worry at all.

Perhaps our rantings this week might encourage NSA to give us a more interesting topic next time. Besides, I have quite enjoyed our little thread...
Kay Kelly - 30, October, 2011 (14:52)

Helen:

I have been reluctant to put up my hand for a royal title. Of course, I do have the good German heritage like Queen Elizabeth, but with the bushranger blood in there as well - I'm just not sure! Of course, were I to be given a 'Princess' title, I would be true to my convictions (sorry - unfortunate word given the bushranger connection)and insist that I be greeted and treated like a commoner - none of that curtseying, scraping and bowing! I like a good, firm handshake!

I think a lot a good folk out there in NSA blog land must think they have logged onto loony land! What on earth are we taking? All this talk about titles! And the week did start so innocently!
Kay Kelly - 30, October, 2011 (13:50)

Lorikeet:

I am astonished at your utter conviction you are always right, in spite of so much information to the contrary. Truly amazing.

The interests of the employees of any company are best served by that company remaining in business. Clearly Qantas is struggling to compete internationally - and that is based on the current Qantas wages, let alone an increase. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I think Alan Joyce would have been wiser not to go for such a big pay rise at this time - given the current dispute (which is about wages).
Helen - 30, October, 2011 (13:45)

No Tony, I don't agree Our PM is our Leader and we were the Hosts of CHOGM. A polite nod and handshake was enough.

Our PM is an Aussie who grew up here in Australia and is as Aussie as any of us. If you told my German born husband that he was not an Aussie he would be very upset. He says that he even has the papers to prove it.

Old Rudd couldn't help himself either to get attention at a Rock Concert of all places!. I could think of a name for him, but alas, it would not be very royal (so will just think it), it rhymes with moose!

Queenie, YES, YES & YES again! PERFECT for the job. Do you think our "resident fighting bird" will accept such a promotion as this! How exciting....

My husband sometimes says that I am a Princess at times (& not always when he is happy with me!). Perhaps there is a spare title available for me. I think "Princess Helen of NSA blog" sounds rather good as a far as titles go. Personally I think there is a title for anyone out there who thinks they deserve one. Only one person fits the Dowager title though.

Kay - you too would make a fiiiine Princess!

It will really take royal deliberation on this very important decision issue...
WEG - 30, October, 2011 (13:41)

PM Gillard has conducted herself well during CHOGM and has probably raised her diplomatic standing somewhat (in my opinion).

When the Queen was in Brisbane, I thought ‘Captian Red’, Premier Anna Bligh was a little overboard with her red hat and dress code. The red did not float my buoy!

I may as well flag the point, she may have been wearing something white and blue as well, but that was not visible to the naked eye!
Lorikeet - 30, October, 2011 (13:26)

ETS:

People who are fearful do not speak out. In case you weren't aware, the Sedition Laws have also been amended since 2006.

I see the crotchety, cranky Blog Monitor has popped in for a good whinge.
Lorikeet - 30, October, 2011 (13:23)

Kay:

The same people keep ganging up on me, because they know I am right about lots of things.

Qantas used to be owned by our government. If I worked for Qantas, I would be very concerned about our planes being serviced offshore. Until now, we have had one of the best safety records in the world. I don't want that to change.

If Qantas wants to run a Slave Labour Trade, with demands for higher productivity along with poor wages and working conditions, they can take a hike.

The CEO made sure HE got a pay increase before attempting to kneecap workers.

Let us wait and see how things pan out at the 2.00 p.m. meeting in Melbourne today.

In the meantime, maybe we could try to step out of our own shoes into the baggage handlers or passengers' role.
Tony Rowe - 30, October, 2011 (12:37)

Keep the queen sweet as Australia might benfit from trade that the UK used to get from the EU... hopefully the UK can come out of this mess they used to call the common market and again use its commonwealth for trade and other things.
nothing wrong with a curtsey for your head of state and I would especially have expected a lady born in Wales to show a bit more respect, hey miss Gillard !!!!!!!
ETS - 30, October, 2011 (11:36)

Good afternoon Your Majesties, assembled Lords and Ladies, what a beautiful morning we just had. Made this humble commoner glad to be alive. I walked past someone on the way to the shops but I was not sure if they were royalty or not – didn’t want to overdo it if they were humble commoners. So I compromised and gave her a polite nod and smile and said good morning. She did the same to me so I guess a similar thought must have gone through her mind… or maybe she was just being polite too.

We have to get used to the idea that QANTAS is not “our” airline any more. It belongs to the shareholders. I heard on the financial media this week that one of Alan Joyce’s objectives is to reposition QANTAS as an Asian airline, possibly basing its headquarters in an Asian country. I suppose there are good financial reasons for doing this and shareholders would not complain if the move was profitable, but it would mean the loss of jobs in Australia.

The idea behind the shut down seems to be to invoke the emergency provisions of the Fair Work Act allowing the Tribunal to declare an end to industrial action. If that is the case it is a heavy handed way of going about it. A stranded passenger made the valid point that giving 24 hours notice of the shut down would have allowed most stranded passengers to finish their trip or make other arrangements. Looks like it was intended to cause maximum disruption to passengers. This is not to say all the wrongdoing is with management. All sides could definitely have handled their dispute in a more considered way.

Lorikeet, you are a fearless critic of the government regardless of the issue, but I think you are quite safe from prosecution under the Sedition laws. I’m not sure the NSA blog and the other blogs you contribute to are at the top of the Government’s agenda right now. You can safely put that little fear to bed.

Your Majesty, I wonder if we are thinking of the same person with all the qualities to be the Dowager Empress.
Kay Kelly - 30, October, 2011 (11:11)

Helen, thank you for your comments. I think most of us at our age are not worried by attempts at bullying, or a spot of name-calling. No problem. I have lots of lorikeets in my garden and have observed their aggressive behaviour. Perhaps my garden has too much nectar?

You may have seen this morning's interview with Dick Smith. Whilst not condemning the striking workers, he did say that he was astonished that Qantas International was still operating given that comparable Qantas staff are paid around twice the wages paid to equivalent staff in other airlines operating into, and out of, Australia. This included US airlines.

The timing of Alan Joyce's big pay increase was particularly unfortunate. In an interview this morning he said he had received previous pay cuts, and did not think it unreasonable to get his pay increase (including shares) at this time. He said Qantas was profitable domestically, but was having problems on the international routes. Perhaps the international arm will be completely restructured?

Personally, I much prefer to fly Virgin domestically, and Singapore Airlines internationally (if it covers that route). But I believe Etihad is also good. I've also had good experiences with LAN Chile.
Queen Robyn - 30, October, 2011 (11:05)

Helen,

All Kingdoms have to have a dotty dowager and our chosen one is present amongst us. She is not yet recognizing her post.
Queen Robyn - 30, October, 2011 (10:56)

Yes, why do women have to curtsey and not men? Who made these stupid rules up?

Monitor,
This is a really funny, enjoyable strand. I wish you would stay.
Helen - 30, October, 2011 (10:40)

Oh dear! Kay! Welcome to the growing club on this blog of those who have been attacked and left bleeding by a very vicious bird!

I'm sure you will survive the mental anguish and will continue to give us your ever intelligent views on our given subjects.

For those bloggers who find it hard to fit Qantas in with our topic. Some of us decided that it was all finished on the first day.

Perhaps we will be given "multiple choices" from now on and with the wisdom gained from all our collective years, I am sure there are better topics in keeping with our superior brain matter that we can squabble over for another week.

The Dowager bit King Bob is only for the oldies, I haven't noticed any here. Perhaps a "Princess" or two and a few "Princes" as well might put the finishing touches to your growing exclusive Kingdom.
then there are Knights and Dukes..... How do you and Queenie feel about this. Also, what it the Kingdom to be called, we don't yet have a name...
Arabella - 30, October, 2011 (9:57)

I'm not sure what Qantas has to do with curtseying to the Queen?????? I've never liked curtseying even though taught when I was a little girl. It is easy to over balance and it is impractical. I believe the Queen would be happy with signs of respect and a bow of the head is a sign of respect. Why don't men curtsey I can see no reason why women have to curtsey and be criticised. Is it that men are taking the easy road?? The mind boggles at the thought of all the men curtseying, ha,ha. I have the greatest respect and affection for the Queen but I would not curtsey, a bow of the head is quite sufficient. The Queen bowed her head when the former Princess of Wales' funeral passed, so a bow is recognised and a mark of respect.
Chris - 30, October, 2011 (9:50)

I'm not a big believer in curtseying. A handshake would have been ok. Young Julia did look a bit casual without a hat. The hats are the best part of the whole thing.
Bring on the republic but please don't call us "Republicans". I was born in the US. Been here for 40 years. A republic, no curtseying and no hats suits me.
Helen - 30, October, 2011 (9:39)

All businesses have to compete on the world market (even Qantas).

Australians do not get "lousy wages" in most places and compared with many other countries, even UK and US is the reason why many want to come here to work. At the airport, they are getting good wages from what I have heard. It doesn't take a science degree to handle baggage so why should they get more than a nurse who has to train for so long and work such lousy hours for so little.

I think the arguement here is whether Joyce should have got a 2 million dollar bonus as well as a rise in his wage. I don't particularly think he should have. Blame the shareholders (are there any bloggers who are shairholders of Qantas?) I would love to know why he was voted such a bonus when the company is not making a profit but going down hill. I do find this hard to understand.

Who in their right mind would book a Qantas trip now (or in the future).

I see Lorikeet is off again. When we don't argue with you Lorikeet it just means that we "make allowances" and nothing more. It doesn't mean that you have won the arguement at all, quite the opposite...
Monitor - 30, October, 2011 (9:29)

I popped in to see whether the blog had improved and was startled to see that a topic which is not worth one comment had reached 152 posts. It confirmed my decision to stay away which I will do but I note some matters raised which I do not want to pass over.
I am very sorry to hear about Lorikeet’s illness and hope the diagnosis proves as benign as possible.
But I see little else has changed. Lorikeet has 14 posts which due to the many other posts is about 9%. It is her lowest percentage in the last 15 blogs one of which reached 35%.
Lorikeet cannot remember a time when she has ever lost an argument. If she said that she cannot remember a time when she ever admitted to losing an argument she would be correct. Personally I cannot recall a time when she ever won an argument. I cite merely the time she said that the Burka was banned in Australia, then when challenged said she had never made the statement and persisted in that stance even though her earlier statement which she denied making was there for all to see.
So Goodbye
King Bob - 30, October, 2011 (9:26)

Qantas continued.

Just as the company can have expectations for reasonable treatment from the unions so to the unions from the company. There are some issues that are prime amongst the union conditions and one is the employment of Australians in so far as that is possible and reasonable.

'Reasonable' pops up a lot but is a key overarching condition that seems to have become blurred.
King Bob - 30, October, 2011 (9:21)

The Qantas debarcle was caused by two sides of a wage negotiaton failing to compromise. On one side Qantas has formed a plan for the healthy future of the company amid hostile competition and the unions require a number of things to keep Qantas employees ahead of the mob.

In simple terms they are mutually excusive. Something has to give through negotiation or maybe arbitration. It seems some higher level directions will be necessary to break the stalemate.

Is it right that Qantas domestic pilots earn 20% ish more than other domestic pilots? If so then this is a problem. A pilot is a pilot is a pilot unless they do something demostrably different to account for this margin. I could go on but my sympathy has changed since yesterday - a company can reasonably expect a reasonable plan for its healthy future to be reasonably implemented.
Kay Kelly - 30, October, 2011 (8:24)

No, Lorikeet, I am clearly one those people (among many) who don't go along with your paranoia. Off with my head! I just prefer to check things out myself, and make my own analyses.

Your blog at 1521 29 October was clearly silly and boastful and demeaned other bloggers.
Lorikeet - 30, October, 2011 (7:54)

Here's a little prediction. I think Qantas may deliberately fall on its own sword, while establishing a new Asian airline.

Perhaps they own other airlines already, and current events are just an excellent dramatisation of poor dear Qantas's difficulties before the government gives them the Green light to do whatever they want e.g. moving their entire business to the third world.

Last night I emailed the CEO of Qantas and told him I would never fly with his airline again if he continued to abuse Australian workers.
Lorikeet - 30, October, 2011 (7:48)

Kay, you have become just as bad as some of the other people who are making a mockery of the NSA blog.

I am not afraid of anything, just leading the way for those who are mature enough to pay attention and think about what goes on in the real world and where it is taking Australia. You are clearly not one of those people.

If I was a fearful person, I would not be speaking out. In case you have forgotten, John Howard passed Sedition Laws in 2006, which will eventually be used to silence/jail critics of the government.

As for last week's topic, "Corporate Greed", we are now seeing that played out by Qantas, who think they can use Australian workers in a Slave Labour Trade.

This is but one example of the globalisation agenda that was put in place by the ALP decades ago, and that the vast majority of people said a resounding "No!" to.

I am all for a better life for those in other nations, but I am totally against sending Australian backwards with undemocratic processes, back-breaking productivity demands, along with terrible wages and working conditions.

Far from having lost last week's argument, Alan Joyce, CEO of Qantas, is continuing the argument for me.

I suggest you start filing all new information for later comparison, no matter how unusual it sounds. That's what intelligent people do.
Helen - 30, October, 2011 (7:43)

Good morning everyone. This Qantas debarcle is a bit grim. I'm not sure who I support here. I am glad though that I am not trying to come home after a very long trip (as we did back in April). Travelling for 30 hrs only to find one is stuck in an airport would NOT be fun.

I have a hatred of airports, customs, long lines and the constant waiting (which is considered normal).

The CEO's are at fault and so are the unions, so where to from here? The other airlines are laughing as business picks up for them. Sadly unless Qantas becomes something that our country owns once again, I think it is doomed as it can no longer compete with the cheaper airlines from O/S.

We travelled Singapore airlines from Sydney to Singapore and then Lufthansa from Sing. to Frankfurt, then from there to Budapest (a huge trip!). The service, food etc was better on Singapore airlines and my husband definitely liked the hosties and their uniforms much better. I haven't particularly liked the service on Qantas for some years, so I am not sure what to think.

I hope a resolution is worked out soon and the gov. did the right thing by calling in the tribunal to work through it all.

In the meantime, I will shed a tear for the travellers. It must be awful for them and the line of people throughout the tourist industry as people can't get to where they want to go, whether it's home or a tour, cruise, hotel etc. Think of all the staff all along the chain. This sort of thing affects a zillion workers from the top to the bottom.
A bit gloomy for a Sunday morning eh...
Kay Kelly - 29, October, 2011 (19:38)

Lorikeet:

Last week wasn't exactly a success for you.

So don't try to avoid the issue by starting to insult people again! We clarified the issues you raised, and we did so in a calm, logical manner, thereby removing any apparent basis for your fearful concerns. So please don't start all this 'kindergarten' stuff again. When you do that we know you can't debate the issue in any meaningful way.
Lorikeet - 29, October, 2011 (19:23)

I am not afraid of anyone or anything, but it would be nice if some people grew up or took their kindergarten behaviour elsewhere.
Lorikeet - 29, October, 2011 (19:21)

Wrong again, Kay.

How quickly you forget that some of us are not at home all the time, and have medical complaints to resolve.
Queen Robyn - 29, October, 2011 (18:08)

Paula,

I agree with you about the Canadian flag. It makes such a strong statement and can never be confused. It would be great to have an Aussie flag that is bold and individual along the same line.
Queen Robyn - 29, October, 2011 (17:54)

I have just returned from the 'Cancer Walk For Life' afternoon to find hearty congratulations, a new King and a champagne party happening tonight to honour King Bob and I. How wonderful!!! Thank you to all my loyal subjects. Long Live You All. Can't wait to pop that cork and do a majestic jig or two.

Kay, I distinctly remember you winning that argument against Lorikeet last strand. You did it so well too.
I never did find out if we solved the body parts puzzle ETS because I had to go out before the strand got wiped. Did we?

Helen, thank you for your curtsey. It was quite delightful but you could try to bend a little more deeply next time. Don't worry about anything going to my head.

Bob B, I'm so glad you have chosen to join my rank and isn't it great that Royalty are doing away with sexism. Kings aren't preferred to Queens anymore. We are equals.

ETS, thank you for enlightening me about the "1" not being necessary. I'm relieved because it does seem a little grandiose. I like your idea of everyone curtseying and bowing to everyone else. We can have fun doing lots of that tonight at our virtual champagne shindig.
Angela Rowell - 29, October, 2011 (17:20)

I believe the Queen, herself, has expressed the view that the bowing the head is sufficient acknowledgement. The deep curtsey has long gone, which was a great relief to The Duke who was often called upon to haul some elderly, still, old dear from collapsing on the floor. The alternative to either is to bob, which is very attractive for women. The bowing of the head, on the other hand, seems a little masculine. Whichever you choose to do, do it with confidence - know when to do it and how, so practise. The lack of confidence is the thing which trips people up.
diane - 29, October, 2011 (17:09)

I think the Queen deserves respect from everyone, i was more disappointed in the Governor General being late then walking in as if she herself was the Queen, i dont think a curtesy is the end all , but manners are.
Kay Kelly - 29, October, 2011 (16:34)

Lorikeet:

You've already forgotten last week? I assure you I did not agree with your fears about Woolies and the RBA. I certainly said I didn't, I clarified the issues, and eventually you gave up! So let's not rewrite history again, please!

Queen Robyn and King Bob - congratulations on your coronations! Champagne tonight, I guess?
ETS - 29, October, 2011 (15:51)

I've never known Lorikeet not to have the final word on any subject, but that is not the same as winning the argument. Some people just give up or move onto better things.

Now about the vacant Dowager Empress position, there must be somebody who meets the relevant criteria...
Lorikeet - 29, October, 2011 (15:21)

I have never been lost for words, and I cannot remember a time when I ever lost an argument. Most of the people I know either agree with me or say nothing, for fear of losing yet another argument. Even if they think what I have said is weird, they know that truth is stranger than fiction, and that Lorikeet has a Sherlock Holmes gene.
Lorikeet - 29, October, 2011 (15:18)

Large numbers of people are named Robyn, including one of my sisters, but she isn't a blogger.

Lots of people can use the same email address. I used to share one with one of my sons.

When it comes to blogs, it would clearly depend on how it was set up in the beginning, or changed at a later date.
helen - 29, October, 2011 (15:10)

For those Bloggers who think that some of us have "gone over to the other side". We haven't. I suspect the cause is having grand-children around to oftenm, especially if they are only toddlers.

When we stop being a bit "silly" and "Juvenile" are some of the words some are thinking of at this time, then we will really know that we are getting old. We silly ones are still obviously very young at heart.

When my mother could no longer talk to her brothers and sisters on the phone, I started writing letters to them on mum's behalf. It really kept her family going through her dreadful illness (Vascular Dementia). Without humour, I would not have got through it all. Some of her fellow residents were priceless with their humour.

It is a real leveller and the last thing to leave is music and humour. My mother kept this to the end. She hummed her way to heaven, even after she could no longer speak.

SO, until Monday, "light hearted humour" is much better than our topic this week.

Politics will be there waiting for us all now that CHOGM is finished. The Opposition will be at their bagging best I'm sure.

Good evening, I'm off air from now
Did you see my courtsy "Queenie" and King Bob? You would have been proud of me - cheers...
ps
I think we have left Lorikeet lost for words..
Bob B/King Bob - 29, October, 2011 (13:56)

Why thank you Queen Robyn and ETS. I am pleased to accept the honour of King Bob. We will celebrate tonight with some bubbly but no long speaches.

Let it known that I do not require curtsey or bow rather a polite and sincere welcome and hand shake.

Her Magesty Queen Elizabeth II has done herself proud on the two week visit to Australia. I think she genuinely enjoyed her time here and is pleased with the outcome of CHOGM so far. There is modernisation in the air with the acceptance of first child male or female as aire to the throne. Well done CHOGM. Her Magesty is well pleased with this outcome. Next is to remove some vestages from King Henry VIII times enabling a Royal to marry a Roman Catholic.

So with my first pronouncement, I got the Security Code wrong!!
Helen - 29, October, 2011 (13:18)

ETS Old Charlemagne was VERY active wasn't he.

"Queenie" Are you going to celebrate your new found royalty? As long as it doesn't go to your head and change you. There's too much of that going on now.

Seriously, I must be off and do something. My husband is getting all "thingy" about the blog. He knows nothing about computers, which in some ways is OK, at least this is a place that I can retreat to without him interferring. I have offered him lessons but he is happy in his outdated fog. This is the reason why we don't agree politically because I'm for the "new" and he is locked into the "old". Lot's of people like that, I see them demonstrating all the time on the tellie.
Oh Oh! I got all political, sorry...
Paula - 29, October, 2011 (13:17)

I'm Canadian born but my family tree includes members of the United Empire Loyalists from Canada and also the American Daughters of the Revolution so I'm feeling somewhat conflicted. I couldn't bring myself to curtsey to anyone but would certainly acknowledge the dedication and commitment of the Queen with a bow of the head as per Julia. And a silent prayer we can skip Charles. I would refer Arthur Mac to Canada's flag; the whole world recognizes it without having to squint to work out which version of the Union Jack is displayed. I think sometimes Australians don't realize how strong and bold they appear to outsiders and they need a flag that reflects their individuality. Next generation I guess.
ETS - 29, October, 2011 (13:04)

Queen Robyn, I think King Bob sounds right. There is a vacancy for a Dowager Empress. There must be someone who qualifies for that gig…
ETS - 29, October, 2011 (12:55)

Right on, Helen.
ETS - 29, October, 2011 (12:53)

Congratulations Queen Robyn, will open the bubbly tonight instead of the red to celebrate your coronation. I think popular usage is that you don’t have to be Queen Robyn 1 until there is a Queen Robyn 2 who needs differentiation.

With all the first and second level royals, the ex-royals (eg, the Greek royal family excluding Prince Phil, Romanovs, Hohenzollerns, Plantagenets, Manchus, Bonny Prince Charlie), Saxe-Coburg-Gothas who became Windsors, illegitimate royals and anyone else with a claim to royal heritage, it seems to me that anyone not claiming royal lineage of some description is in the minority. I remember one of those ancestry shows saying that everybody of European heritage could trace their genes back to the emperor Charlemagne. We commoners are not so common after all. So just to be on the safe side we should all bow or curtsey to everybody we meet just in case they are royal, as we want to show respect and not offend their royal-ness.
Helen - 29, October, 2011 (12:52)

PA Debnam
You just burst the "bubble" I thought we were going to actually get the week-end off from all the nasty stuff.

It is within your right not to like our PM but your remarks re her personal life are a bit off I think.

Tim her other half earns his living as the PM's hairdresser and prepares her for the ghastly press people that she has to suffer each day.

As far as living together, at least she is honest and doesn't make out that she is something that she is not. Everything was up front with her personal life, stance on religion etc.

Not so with some of the others in my opinion. Out PM is not doing anything that most of the population seem to be doing these days and that is living together. I don't think it is anyone's business really. We don't own her private life anymore than she owns yours.

Manners started to leave us many years ago. I can remember standing up in a bus when I was 8+ months pregnant and not getting a seat. The same day I tried to cross the street and nearly got run over. When I did finally get to the bus, I proceeded to climb to stairs and the bus took off! I have never forgotten this incident to this day.

My husband laughed and said that I didn't look pregnant enough. I'm afraid I didn't see the humour...

Anyway "lighten up". this blog has been too serious, too critical and a few other unmentionables of late. The topic this week was not brian stretching enough either, so it is rather nice to swap stories for a change.

Perhaps you too have one for us to brighten our week-end
Cheers...
P A DEBNAM - 29, October, 2011 (11:40)

Common courtesy never killed anybody that I am aware of,obviously marital status in high office does not matter either,when our nation is run without respect as to two persons have live-in relationships @ travel etc at our expense @ so on then why would you lower yourself to another person such as the Queen,so when your term in office is so short why would you not make every post a winner or is it not so that we lower classed Australian are not entitled to have our say or is it that most would not hold the door opened for your own Mother.Shame on you for not having a look at youself first before commenting.
My turn- Paul.
Queen Robyn 1 - 29, October, 2011 (11:05)

Oh dear, I've just realized that "Robyn", doing the test, was you Bob B and not the other Robyn. I'm getting all muddled up. Better get off my throne and go do something domestic to clear the head. I'm outdoing Lorikeet at the moment percentage-wise (oh woe!).
Queen Robyn 1 - 29, October, 2011 (10:58)

Robyn,

Sorry, I didn't see your message before I answered Bob. Thanks for the test. I'm glad we are now delineated.
Queen Robyn 1 - 29, October, 2011 (10:53)

Thanks Bob B. Important to keep the name change then.
So nice to see my new name being referred to. I am beginning to like it better than plain Robyn. Have you thought of becoming King Bob at all?
Bob B - 29, October, 2011 (10:50)

Isn't it nice when we can discuss one topic quickly then slightly deviate. We have taken curtsy to the Queen to family tree connection with past Royalty. And....... Lets wait and see.

I'm still waiting to see if the randomly generated Security Check comes up all numerals. For the mathematically minded that is 10/26 * 10/26.....6 times or a 1 in 309 chance. That seems too frequent - any maths teachers out their who can help - I'm 50 years rusty.
Bob B - 29, October, 2011 (10:38)

Queen Robyn

I conducted that simpole test. It seems one name can have a number of email addresses!!!!!! Oh dear!
Robyn - 29, October, 2011 (10:37)

Queen Robyn. This is a test. I entered 'Robyn' and my email addrss. If it appears then one name can have a number of email addresses.
Queen Robyn 1 - 29, October, 2011 (10:36)

Helen,

Yes you and my friends can call me Queenie if you like. Anyone who wants to abuse me must call me Queen Robyn.
Queen Robyn 1 - 29, October, 2011 (10:22)

My Husband and son say that the Robyn who commented on 28 Oct (18:45) is someone pretending to be me because blogs don't accept the same names with different email addresses. Would this be right?

If someone is pretending to be me I'm not amused! I am keeping my name change in honour of this strand and so that any pretense will be more obvious in future.

If I am not being misrepresented I apologize to the other Robyn.
Helen - 29, October, 2011 (10:13)

Can I call you "Queenie" Robyn or is that too disrespectful your RH? also Kay

My Aunt married to my mothers brother is related to Ben Hall. Have you ever studied him?

He was "railroaded" by a cop who ran off with his missus after having him charged with something he didn't do. When Ben came out of jail his wife was gone and his house burnt down.

This started his life as a Bushranger. It was in the Lambing Flats area (Young). There are still many Halls living there today. My Aunt's maiden name was Hall.

He was a handsome fellow and one can't understand why his wife left him in the first place. He was also not aggressive in nature but I guess a jail term helped to change this.

One of my first fleeters was the first Government Store keeper Cprl John Gowan who came out on the "Sirius" and the other a convict Thomas Akers who was a convict on the "Charlotte". The Son from the former married the daughter of the latter which is pretty interesting stuff as my grandparents on my father's side were second cousins.

It gets totally confusing and I have gone into it all in great depth but have't done it for a while now.

The old kings fathered children everywhere and it is quite possible that we are related. The throne was from Europe as well as marriages criss- crossed back and forth. It was money & power that caused poor female children to be bethrothed at birth. How awful that must have been for them...
Queen Robyn 1 - 29, October, 2011 (10:01)

Lorikeet:

This isn't flippancy. There are 2 Robyns. We could get muddled up so I have changed my name. Please call me Queen Robyn from now on.
AVLSON - 29, October, 2011 (9:23)

Isn't it about time we (Australians) dispensed with anachronistic form of greeting? It really is appalling when you realise it is a from the time when the lesser mortals threw themselves on the ground in front of their lords.
Jenny - 29, October, 2011 (9:11)

'and a little child shall lead them'..Madison Sporer for President (:-)
Lorikeet - 29, October, 2011 (8:54)

I don't know who Laurakeet is at all.

I enjoyed reading Jenny's comment and would like to hear from her and other bloggers more.

Captain James Cook had one of my ancestors in charge of one of the 3 ships he was using when he first came to Australia.

Yesterday my eldest son sent me a spreadsheet showing religious denominations compiled from previous census statistics (not the recent ones).

Since around half the population claim to be either Roman Catholic or Anglican, it stands to reason that most of us are connected to the British Royal Family in one way or another.

I was raised in the Methodist Church, but the family jewels are held by an aunt in Melbourne. These belonged to our ancestor who was a duchess.

Through intermarriage, we are probably all related, whether we have convict heritage or not.

I think some people could dispense with the flippant, stupid rubbish which clearly offends many of our number.
Queen Robyn 1 - 29, October, 2011 (8:20)

Kay and Helen,

Kay I must take you to task. You didn't use my new title "QUEEN ROBYN". Please do so in future. I am serious, I am now a queen.

I remember seeing the Ben Hall series on TV in the 1970's. I was in my 20's at the time and was really smitten with the actor who played Ben. Did you see it Kay? He was a lovely character in the series.

I am amazed that your mum's resembled the Queen because mine did too and people used to comment on it all the time. It used to tickle her fancy. She died in 2002. I don't look anything like Elizabeth but I do look like a queen, especially when I wear my crown.

Helen, you could join the exclusive first fleeters club. Do you know about it? All those convicts is really impressive - you've outdone me! Were any of them at Port Arthur? They may have known my rels.
Kay Kelly - 29, October, 2011 (7:59)

Helen:

Sorry - I meant to address that comment to you. had Queen Robyn 1 on my brain!
Kay Kelly - 29, October, 2011 (7:57)

Robyn:

Now we are going down the ancestor path, you may be surprised to hear that my mum (90) is also a dead ringer for the Queen. My family line is primarily German - migrated here in 1860-70 to help build up Australia's wine industry (they worked in the German vineyards). I noticed on the 'Who do you think you are?' episode on Maggie Beer, that her ancestor came out in the same migration scheme, from the same area, for the same reason, probably on the same boat. On my grandmother's side, I am related to the bushranger, Ben Hall. I also have convicts back there somewhere. So quite a mixture - as are most Australians, I guess!
Queen Robyn 1 - 29, October, 2011 (7:49)

I am changing my name to Queen Robyn 1.

If we ever meet in the non virtual world you must curtsey or bow deeply before you speak to me. None of this nodding nonsense! I don't care if the men curtsey and the women bow - in this modern age I don't bother with gender specifics. However all birds must curtsey deeply for at least 30 seconds. Lizards can do the upside-down turtle supplication. Once all of that is completed we can indulge in the good reds together and you can celebrate having a (hopefully not drunk) queen in your midst.

You are all now on notice (especially you Lorikeet).

Bye for the last time as "Robyn". Please use my proper title from now on (you can drop the "1" if you like).
Helen - 29, October, 2011 (7:32)

Thanks ETS. I feel very "exclusive!" Interesting discussions. I think the "curtsy" thing is a bit dead now.

Our PM was given the list of Protocol that had to be followed and she did. She presented herself very well, but I suppose there would be some who would never find anything nice to say anyway because they just don't like her.

As our Leader, and the host of CHOGM, the way our PM presented was without any criticism in my book.

My own mother looked a lot like a very young Princess Margaret. Sadly she died two years ago from Vascular Dementia and in the last three years was a resident of a special nursing home for Dementia sufferers.

She was "nicknamed" The Queen because she was very regal and stood with her head high as she walked along. Unlike me, she was not that tall, but walked tall. In her later years, she really did look a lot like the Queen and was only one year older.

I often used to wonder as the resemblance was so strong, if there was some connection somewhere.

I have studied our family tree at length and can't see that her family were anything but poor farmers. I have two first fleeters on my dad's side and nine convicts. Some quite famous ones in there. My heritage is English/Irish on both sides

Sorry to hear that our Lorikeet is not well. It is better not to worry until diagnosis is confirmed, most times everything is OK.

No-one wishes ill to anyone on this blog and we fellow bloggers will join with you in friendship and hope for the best, take Lorikeet care -

I'm still wondering who Laurakeet was??...
Jenny - 28, October, 2011 (23:32)

Apparently a curtsey is too 'old fashioned'. So what do we do about it no ballet dancer is to curtsey to her audience as a mark of respect and no deb (it still happens) be allowed to curtsey to the person she is being presented to. If leaders of a Country and State cannot be bothered to show respect to the Queen of Australia they should get another job. And just who do they want for President? ? ?
Robyn - 28, October, 2011 (21:47)

I discovered a couple of convicts in my paternal line. My great, great grandparents met at Port Arthur, Tasmania. Have some Ladies and Gentlemen on the maternal side, but alas, no kings or queens (I don't think).
Joolz - 28, October, 2011 (21:40)

Incidentally, I descend from the old kings of Ireland. A pretty motley lot I hear.
Joolz - 28, October, 2011 (21:37)

A highly amusing read. Think I'll go and have another red. Cheers to all bloggers
Lorikeet - 28, October, 2011 (20:44)

Bob B:

My maternal grandmother's family were from Berkshire. I haven't yet looked into her lineage.

Has anyone heard anything more about someone attempting to disband the Commonwealth of Nations?
Robyn - 28, October, 2011 (20:19)

Just need to say that the comment by "Robyn" on Oct 28 (18:45) was not me. I didn't know we had another Robyn. Maybe I need to change my name.

Lorikeet, I'm sorry you are having problems with your health. I do hope your tests turn out ok.
Bob B - 28, October, 2011 (20:06)

Lorikeet

In about year 980, twentynine generations prior to the birth of my great Grandmother, an Irving, Malcolm II King of Scotland was born. The family tree traces through Kirbys of Blakesley, the Irving/Carlyle line back to Malcolm II, if you can believe some of the things on the net.

Surprise of surprise,it would seem our forebares have been out of harmony for some time.

Whilst I claim the Irvine of Bonshaw tartan, I also have strong English roots - Manchester, Westminster and Staffordshire.
wekjnsd - 28, October, 2011 (19:35)

Never grovel to anyone.
Never grovel to anyone.

We stand for Australia.
oinrmnvr - 28, October, 2011 (19:33)

Lesser beings curtsey to their superiors. Aussies don't curtsey to anyone. We are not slaves, we do not grovel.
eoiu - 28, October, 2011 (19:32)

Curtseying is grovelling.
Curtseying is grovelling.

Anyone who says otherwise should grow up.
Barbara - 28, October, 2011 (19:29)

They should have curtsied. They made a point of not - and that in itself says something. A curtsy is more dignified and would have showed greater respect and pleased all Australians. The little ones managed it so surely the grown-ups could have given it a go.
Bob B - 28, October, 2011 (18:59)

Lorikeet

Despite your belief I am sorry to hear of your health ordeals. We may spar occasionally but that does not mean we are heartless soles. We do care our 'group' of seniors. Hope it turn out for the best for you. You have my best wishes.
Senior at Large - 28, October, 2011 (18:54)

Ann Jones, where do you get the idea the Prime Minister does not like or respect the Queen? There is no evidence for your opinion. You are starting to sound like Alan Jones, just sprouting off with no basis for saying it.

By the way, QEII is a ship. Please have enough respect for the Queen to use her full title or name, not some disrespectful abbreviation.
ETS - 28, October, 2011 (18:50)

Helen, sorry I missed you before close down time. The virtual wine bar is in whatever state (or state of mind) you are in at the time. Just open the bottle, fill that glass and sit back and relax. There, now you are with the rest of us. Cheers.

Brian and anybody else, this is an exclusive group – at the moment just NSA bloggers, so you and any other bloggers are more than welcome. Please follow the directions in the preceding paragraph and you will be with us. I have a glass of merlot next to me as I tap away at the keyboard. Cheers to you my friend and to anyone else relaxing on this mellow Friday evening.

Lorikeet, despite the fact that both sides of your family are proficient with the axe, you are also welcome to join us with the drink of your choice. Doesn’t have to be wine; we live in a free society. Please leave any axes at the door. Even though you are descended from Henry VIII, we commoners would still welcome your virtual company.

In all seriousness now, I am very sorry to hear of your possible diagnosis. I have a friend with MS and, although she is currently managing well enough, life is a struggle. I can only support Kay’s comments and hope the diagnosis turns out for the best. I know you have a fighting spirit and I’m sure the thoughts of all of us are with you.
Robyn - 28, October, 2011 (18:45)

Get over it... we love the Queen - she has changed with the times, so why can't everyone else. Protocol - courtesy or bow, whatever..... I am sick of reading all the comments from everyone, probably from the up and coming next generation who like to get involved in everything just because you do.... but actually they have no knowledge of royalty it is just jumping on the bandwagon.
Ann Jones - 28, October, 2011 (18:32)

Queen Elizabeth II is still our Queen and the Head of the Commonwealth of which we are still a part and as such the leader of our country should be setting an example for the rest of us - especially migrants - by acting CORRECTLY and curtseying. Any wonder our young and not-so-young are confused when the ones who should know better don't behave in the correct manner. The Prime Minister doesn't have to like or respect QEII but she should at least respect the station which QEII holds in regards to our country.
Kay Kelly - 28, October, 2011 (18:13)

Lorikeet:

Now I understand you! Your genes are driving your comments! What with one rellie keen to chop off the head of anyone who disagrees with him, and another who wields an axe with great aplomb, no wonder you are what you are. So just as well we never actually meet!

Seriously though, I am sorry to hear of your ill health - I hope the diagnosis is not as bad as feared. And I am sure no senior blogger would be happy to hear of anyone's ill health.
Brian - 28, October, 2011 (17:50)

If protocol requires one to curtsey then they should. I think that both the Queen and her mother when she was with us were of such class that a curtsey was simply showing the respect they deserved. Sadly, our current leaders lack such class and could never understand or deserve such show of respect.
Lorikeet - 28, October, 2011 (17:45)

I think Currawong knows very well that this Lorikeet is not "quick to flight" in the slightest.

I'm sure it will make some people happy to know I have been out all day having medical tests, because the doctor thinks I have Multiple Sclerosis. I'm sure you will also enjoy making a mockery of that, since nothing ever stops you from behaving immaturely.

The person who thinks that there is a division between Royalty and Politics needs to consider that the King or Queen used to call all of the shots, collect all of the wealth and taxes, and anyone who didn't like it, got their head chopped off.

On my father's side, I have a fairly interesting pedigree. On my Scottish grandmother's side, I am the descendant of a duchess, some clergymen, and some very highly educated and wise people from the McPherson clan.

On my English grandfather's side, I am a descendant of the landed gentry.

That's right. I am probably related to King Henry VIII.

On my mother's side, my Irish Protestant grandfather was a Grand Champion axeman with a whole trunk filled with ribbons won at the RNA show.

I think I could become quite good at chopping off immature bloggers' heads.
Elizabeth Afribo - 28, October, 2011 (17:26)

When I helped train debutantes, we taught them to curtsey. They were presented to certain dignitaries and the curtsey was just protocol, and respect for the the particular occasion. If the two ladies had just curtsied the once they would not have had to do it again. Just as a matter of respect, we might give ( a kiss) to show our respect to our 85 year old grandmother. It would not have been appropriate to kiss the queen, so why not curtsey?
Robyn - 28, October, 2011 (17:10)

Thanks Kay. This strand is turning out to be very enjoyable, don't you think?

I hope Monitor is out there somewhere witnessing Lorikeet's new score of 5 out of 92 :)
Kay Kelly - 28, October, 2011 (16:48)

Robyn:

Well put - 100% with you on this!
Robyn - 28, October, 2011 (16:43)

When a queen meets a queen, do they curtsey to each other? If they don't, are they being disrespectful to each other?

To my mind, curtseying is about protocol, not respect. It denotes subservience to authority. It is an old fashioned protocol formed back in the days when Royal persons were the supreme rulers and commoners were subjects ie subject to royal authority. This old fashioned protocol is beginning to break down at last because it doesn't fit with our modern world. If I was queen I would hate people to curtsey to me because it would be a statement of inferiority in the presence of my superior status. That's exactly what it WAS all about in previous times.

Respect is a different thing altogether in my view. It's a hard thing to put into words because it's based on what we feel toward others and why we feel that way. People who love the queen and admire the person she is are truly exhibiting their respect. People who curtsey and bow are just doing what they think they have to do.

Good manners is another thing again. Politeness is behaviour learned in relation to showing consideration to others.

I think it is likely that our leaders do respect the queen as a person. They also treated her politely. Their bows were consistent with what was expected in the way of reformed protocol more fitting with custom in today's world. They were still doing what they were told to do, whether it felt right for them or not, so why all the fuss? They did nothing wrong!
olivia pascoe - 28, October, 2011 (16:38)

To bow or to curtsy, who cares? Has the media not got anything more inspirational or relevant to report on? What a sorry lot they must be.
John Blair - 28, October, 2011 (16:33)

Of course a bow is sufficient from either men or women. But if anyone is going to perform a courtsey, let them do it properly. The GG's feeble atempt was just a servant's bob - suitable from someone wearing a cap and apron!
Helen - 28, October, 2011 (16:22)

Laurakeet! Laurakeet! What's this!! OMG! there's another one..........

Close down time! - cheers...
Bob B - 28, October, 2011 (15:59)

It seems we have got to a point that was predictable; split on both sides of the argument. However, many more support a common courtesy approach of being polite and respectful and that the Queen expected no more. That does not prevent one from the older customs but its not necessary today.

I too shall settle into a nice bottle of red my wife brought back from a recent holiday south of the two borders and on the NSW south coast. Unknown to both of us one of her cousins has recently started up a winery and we have a bottle to sample. We will enjoy for I'm sure cousin Raymond wouldn't let us down. My outlook is over my pool and green garden towards Main Beach and Surfers and it would be nice to have some fine company an earstwhile discussion. We could even solve the problems of the world.
Alan Cooper - 28, October, 2011 (15:26)

According to the "monarchy book of rules", a courtsey was not necessary from any of the Australian leaders, and apparently the Queen did not expect one. Who are the people who are whinging about it all anyway. Obviously politics comes into it, as well as Constitutional Monarchists!!!!!! Also, as a little aside, it may be a few older people who are complaining. I am reasonably older, 62, but I see no reason for anyone to do any unnecessary kow-towing. This also includes the greeting towards Kings, Queens,Princes and Princesses from countries that we have hardly ever heard of. If anyone wants to do it, go ahead, but don't try to force it onto everyone.
Brendan - 28, October, 2011 (15:24)

What a pity that we could not find someone among the 22 million of us, who love and live in this country, to open the Children's hospital in Melbourne.

Curtsey - let's face it, there is nothing else to write about during the Queen's visit.
Laurakeet - 28, October, 2011 (15:23)

Come on folks, get off it. There was nothing impolite about anything Gillard, Bligh, Abbott or anyone else did in front of the Queen. It was all perfectly polite, well mannered, respectful, NOTHING WRONG!

No wonder people ignore seniors when you lot carry on like this.
Laurie M - 28, October, 2011 (15:15)

Politics aside, I still think a deeper bow by ALL three (Julia, Anna and Tony) would have shown a bit more respect for a lady who is not only our Queen but also an older person. This lack of respect flows on to so many things these days - school children no longer give up a seat in a bus/train to someone over the age of 70 and many show no manners when entering or exiting through a door. Perhaps it would have shown one loses nothing by being polite.
Senior at Large - 28, October, 2011 (15:11)

I know you might have expected it Margaret but the Prime Minister did not have to curtsey. She was still perfectly respectful. I don't think anyone would have noticed if the media had not beaten it up.

I've noticed that the people most upset that she did not curtsey tend to be the least respectful about the Prime Minister. It is inconsistent to say the least.
helen - 28, October, 2011 (15:10)

ETS, I'm fascinated! Where is this "Virtual Wine-bar" In what state or states do you meet? It sounds a bit "blokey" to me though.

I can't see a problem with our grey matter. Let's face it a topic like we have this week stretches the brain to breaking point in thought and activity. Perhaps the topic was designed to give we seniors some mental time off for our health.

What's happened to all our usual bloggers. they seem to be missing in action today and I haven't had a blast for a while, I'm in withdrawl!...
Peter Caldwell - 28, October, 2011 (15:07)

I'm inclined to think one should curtsy as long as Australia remains a contitutional monarchy. If or when the majority of Australians want a republic, and then Australia's ties to the monarchy are severed, I would see a handshake as appropriate
Margaret Branson - 28, October, 2011 (14:55)

Yes. I think that those people in public office who are representing our country should show every respect to The Queen and most people did expect that our Prime Minister would show that respect by a curtsey.
It doesn't cost anyone a cent to be polite and respectful. Setting the younger generation a good example is important (but many of them already knew and curtsied anyway.)
It might even have done the Prime Minister's popularity a bit of good.
Jim - 28, October, 2011 (14:50)

The Queen has (or should have) the utmost respect of Australians - and normal courtesies should be upheld. However, I could not say the same thing for CHOGM which, in 2011, is a complete anarchronism and should be abolished without further delay.
Brian Storm - 28, October, 2011 (14:46)

ETS, that sounds very pleasant. I also like a good red in the evening. May I join you and your friends? No lectures, I promise.
ETS - 28, October, 2011 (14:38)

Bernhard Racz, welcome aboard. You obviously enjoy a serious, intellectually stimulating discussion and you have come to the right place. I’m not sure we have passed the non-Alzheimer’s test but we do keep trying. You will be pleased to know that every Friday evening a few of us like to adjourn to a virtual wine bar with a shady little garden overlooking a beautiful panoramic view of whatever you fancy. Once seated we enjoy a couple of glasses of good red wine and discuss how much we enjoy life, the issues of the day and whatever else comes up… you know, the usual stuff. We would love to have you join us.
Greg - 28, October, 2011 (14:27)

The alternative would have been worse !!! The mad Abbott would have just said NO, I am opposing this bow thing and if I am elected I will recind it !!!!
Currawong - 28, October, 2011 (14:23)

John O'Grady

I too have a facination with watching the local bird life. You are right in that the rainbow lorikeet is high in the pecking order and have a distinct order amongst themselves. It's interesting to watch them feed in my calistamon only a pair at a time. When others approach sometimes the pairs swap and at other times the approaching pair do not settle. There is always a display of 'power' by one over the other - bullying if you like. And they are well versed in this attribute.

There is one bird though that rules the roost here and is heralded by all other forms fleeing hastily and they approach. Other forms have learned to be wary elst they be consummed, Lorikeets being particularly tasty, and that is the Currawong. Big, black and ugly. No bullying is necessary at all particularly the quick to flight lorikeet.
Bernhard Racz - 28, October, 2011 (14:21)

maybe the night shift sent me to this thread? - 'slave labor party, load of crock, pathetic pandering, stupid topic, lateral tangent, dribble, achronism(??), your keyboard is stuck in upper case, lot of bitch fighting, banal topic, the only one to bow to is Jesus Christ(?? be serious!) - what great responses. You have passed the 'non-Alzheimer's test' so congratulations. Keep the aggression down, add more humour, then drink red wine, yes....R-E-D..... (and make those politicians curtsey and bow...we do need to see that!)
Bernhard Racz - 28, October, 2011 (14:06)

Helen wrote the Queen's look was one of 'approval' - I thought she was bored, but we all interpret differently. I came her aged 8 from Austria (father Hungarian/mother Viennese)and soon after my father put up a picture of the Queen.I asked 'who??' but he said that we were in a new country, and that the 'old' would never be the same. That we could visit it but we were now Australians, and that we had a Queen. He bowed when she visited (was it the 80's?) yet had fought in many armies for many more countries, yet never before accepted any monarch.
Now for my own viewpoint...this is Australia, and whether or not you are a Monarchist or a Royalist, the Queen is the figurehead, and should be accorded respect according to protocol, not according to 'new wave' ideas. The general public can do as it pleases (I personally probably wouldn't bow), but the politicians, who all swore an allegiance to the Crown etc, and I think to 'the Queen' should all follow the 'correct' protocol, not the 'politically adjusted' version. The politicians are paid an inflated wage, for usually a failed application to performance, so are actually getting PAID to BOW. So make them bow, or cut their wages...very simple!
Helen - 28, October, 2011 (13:43)

This weeks Blog started off a bit "crook" but has got better which is refreshing to see.

It's good to see the positive outnumber the negative comments for a change.

I just watched the opening of CHOGM. I thought our PM did a great job and we should be proud of how she presented to the other members of Commonwealth and the Queen.

I noticed that the Queen gave a very approving look at our PM after she made her welcome speech. The Queen is a very wise old woman and has not always liked her PMs. She is also not hesitant in making her feelings known through just a glance. The glance I saw was one of "approval".

This whole Royal Tour was organised to the inth degree has has been a great success, BUT, sadly there will still be those who will find a reason to criticise our PM.

I'm glad though that most of the comments here so far are positive and even a certain noisy bird can't get a critical word in at the moment...
BunyipHunter - 28, October, 2011 (13:41)

Bow or curtsie doesnt matter too me - I wish the PM would BOW to the expressed wishes of the electorate and implement her election promises rather than the grab of wacky ideas coming from the looney tunes cross benches.
Brian Storm - 28, October, 2011 (13:39)

Bowing or curtseying, who really cares? If both are acceptable then it is a personal choice and nobody else's business. Do which one you want when you meet the Queen but don't tell others what to do, you don't have that right.

What a banal topic. Come on Moderator, do better next time.
John O'Grady - 28, October, 2011 (13:24)

I have recently started attracting and feeding birds at my home. All shapes and sizes appear and the rapid establishment of the 'pecking' order within each group is fascinating to watch. The undoubted bosses of the flock, who attain their lofty position by bullying all around them are the Rainbow LORIKEETS! How man immitates nature ....
JW blogger - 28, October, 2011 (13:04)

If it is thought to be "so rude" or "so disrespectful" not to bow or curtsey to the Queen, then perhaps her office should have sent out memoranda to the heads of all Commonwealth nations advising that those who do not bow or curtsey will be arrested!!!!!!! Get on with life, people. This is such a trivial issue.
Margaret Hayes - 28, October, 2011 (12:57)

Of course, they should have curtsied to The Queen, showing manners at least. No wonder we have a future generation with no manners when they see examples like that from the 'top'. The Governor General was a beautiful example wearing a hat, whereas Julia wouldn't know what one was!
Neville Ward - 28, October, 2011 (12:55)

There are various ways to courtesly acknowledge those in Office. EG bowing, saluting and one generally observes these protocols being accepted and practised. However some people cannot accept or contribute generally accepted norms. No surprises here - given the people involved!
R Ellis - 28, October, 2011 (12:10)

'What a banal topic,' I thought. But I've had quite a bit of fun reading the vitriolic, snipey comments that it has engendered! Some of you are downright arrogant and have little concept of the right to hold a particular opinion. It's sad to see our Seniors acting like school-yard bullies. Surely, by now, you've learnt that you can't change people's opinions by verbally bludgeoning them!
Sally - 28, October, 2011 (11:46)

Wow!! did not expect to see a lot of bitch fighting on this site. I thought the people who received these emails were "seniors"
As one of the older people of this country, having been brought up to respect our elders etc. I still consider it good manners to greet the Queen in the old fashioned way no matter what protocol may be these days.
Nanette - 28, October, 2011 (11:36)

The Queen is in Australia as Head of CHOGM obviously most, including Australian residents of non British descent, are getting pleasure from seeing her - we all need romantic fantasy in our lives. CHOGM actually has a political and humane agenda which is important and should not be debased or offset by petty quibbles on curtsy or head-bowing. English born I remember the coronation well and as a child I would have curtsied but as a (very) mature adult I would not dream of doing so now but would do exactly as Gillard did. I would be proud to see my grand-daughters curtsy. Let us not forget that the present Queen and her parents were an enormous inspiration, and held the Commonwealth together too, at no little personal danger to themselves during the Blitz and deserve respect. Today the Royals pay a heavy price, in their fish bowl, by keeping the Medias attention away from others and give pleasure to many. No doubt we will become a Republic but media attention will still be on them.
Robert Crampton - 28, October, 2011 (11:19)

I am an ex pat, proud now to be an Ocker, I believe in RESPECT and believe if little kids can do a coursey then surely our "Leaders " (tongue in cheek ) can as well, though I must admit I also would find the sight of our P.M (so called) over balancing a bloody good laugh, and I thank Trevor R. for painting the picture for my minds eye. DUT SERIOUSLY most of you are a bunch of band wagon riders get a life..you have all had enough practice if you really all ARE SENIORS ?? LOL
Helen - 28, October, 2011 (11:05)

Lovely comments from Prue (and the others).

As for women not supporting women. It is rough when men are not supportive of successful woman because they view them as a threat, and women because they resent their success for some reason.

If men hate woman who are more successful (and I am not saying that ALL men think like this) and if woman hate woman who are prettier, slimmer, more successful and (God forbid), smarter what hope is there for women who want to achieve.

To achieve at the highest level comes at great cost for many women and they must give up so much in order to achieve. It's either having a family and in many instances even staying married.

Perhaps our PM has already realised this and this is the reason for some of the paths she has followed in her personal life. At least her man really supports her. Not many would take a back seat. There are exceptions, Maggie Thatcher's other half was similar to our PM's partner Tim Matheson. They are both happy to see their women folk shine and understand their worth both as Leaders and as being Females in a man's world.

I have hated some of the personal attacks re our PM and how she is supposed to look. Look at the German PM. Why is this so much more evident here in Australia

I admire strong, successful woman and always will. If they can manage all this AND a family, they usually have strong, successful offsprings from box sexes - Power to them...
Dulcie - 28, October, 2011 (11:02)

I greatly value my British heritage and wish our link to British Royalty to remain strong. We are such a small population out on a limb in the ocean I value our strong link to Britain. I
have noticed that the Queen extended her hand was not concerned whether it was a bow or a bob when people were photographed passing by. I often bow slightly or nod and feel it can show my respect adequately for others quite adequately. It is a shame newspapers waste time on rivia when there are so many needy issues needing promotion.
Pru - 28, October, 2011 (10:32)

When I was in local government in 2000, I met the Queeen in a lineup of our local Council. All my adult life I have been a republican and so I wasn't too fussed about meeting her but curiosity won out and my Mum said she would like a photo. We had been advised that either a curtsy or a bow was correct protocol so I bowed. She put out her gloved hand so I shook it and she smiled but didn't speak. She has the most beautiful skin, even though she must have spent time in the sun, horse-riding and at public events. Her perfume is like an English rose. The Duke looked down the line and remarked "This is a very chauvinist line-up" - as there were only 3 women in a Council of 12.
Ama Kalma - 28, October, 2011 (10:24)

Absolutely not! It's ridiculous that this is even a discussion theme. If any of the female head of states would have made a curtsey I would have laughed myself silly.
Shirley Gent - 28, October, 2011 (10:20)

No I think the time of bowing to the queen is over & a handshake is okay, The only person we need to bow to is Jesus christ.
Emmanuel - 28, October, 2011 (9:58)

I don't beleive that any self respecting leader should have to even bow to a foreign head of state, its embarasing to me that this is even a issue.
I was relieved when I saw they didn't curtsy, these two women are an insperation to the younger generation.
Bring on the republic the sooner the better.
The women of Australia should be right behind our Premier, Prime Minister and GG yet some of their biggest critics are women I JUST DON"T GET IT.
Christina - 28, October, 2011 (9:36)

Because of an accident of birth she is the Queen, NOBODY deserves to have anybody lower their body to theirs!!
Maureen Blues - 28, October, 2011 (9:33)

Having had to check protocol in my previous working life when the NSW Governor came for a function, I can assure you that a bow is as acceptable to royalty as a curtsey. It is a pity the media do not check these things before criticising. Perhaps they just want to make news.
garry brown - 28, October, 2011 (9:32)

no nna bligh and Julia gillard should not have bent the knee to the queen .
The days of being subservient to the queen are long past.
We are a soverirgn nation and the world has moved on from monarchy
lindiloo - 28, October, 2011 (9:28)

Respect today somehow lives in the museum along side manners. I believe we are talking about respect here, not protocol. If we do not show respect to the regime we live under there is lawlessness. This example reflects exactly the true core values that we have to witness daily in their poor example of honor to their heads of Government, fellow colleagues within Government, each other and the greater Australian population. And we ask ourselves why are are young people so different today? RESPECT! This nation so needs to honor each other. This example starts from our leaders, however, we are going to have to start from the constituents and work up!!
Helen - 28, October, 2011 (9:26)

Our PM is the Leader of this country and should also be shown respect. I am not seeing this from some of the comments.

Leaders of others countries would not feel that they must "curtsy". Bowing of the head and a friendly handshake was what other Leaders would have done and do, so why should it be different for our PM?

It is interesting too that those showing the least respect for OUR Leader are the most disrespectful with their messages on this blog.

PM Gillard is performing her duties very well and the
Royal guests are having a great time. In fact it is the first time I have actually seen the queen smiling and really mean it. HRH has shown herself as the warm person that she is. We haven't always seen this in her previous visits and visits have been a little "stiff" in the past. The Duke too is also having a ball.

Our flag too has a lot of history and represents those countries from which many of us sprang. I know Aboriginals were the first (but they came from somewhere too and settled here before the white man). Life as we know it and all that we take for granted in this country came from the "white" beginnings and please don't tell me I am not respecting the Black community. I have a huge respect for them and have studied their culture at great length. I am also a great collector of their artwork.

We were a British Community and now we are not. It does upset me at times when I am told that we have no history. We have, and I am a " Royal supporter who springs from the First Fleet twice.

Our country has changed in recent years and not for the better, I don't think "multi-culturalism" works at all. We are seeing this on a daily basis as former hatreds are still being acted out by some of those coming here and who don't follow our ethos. There were more shootings O/night in a suburb of sydney where Multi-culturalism is rife. It's an almost daily event now.

A little bit of "Royalty" is lovely me thinks...
Senior at Large - 28, October, 2011 (9:12)

It is about respect. The Prime Minister and the Premier were respectful, as one would expect them to be. An overdone curtsey that embarassed the Queen would be quite disrespectful.

But to people who complain about a lack of respect, was the recent ABC TV program about the Prime Minister respectful? I think not but I wonder if people who want the curtsey also complained about the lack of respect shown to the PM in that program.
Maurie May - 28, October, 2011 (8:59)

Lack of respect for anything is a huge problem in our society. Whether the two ladies in question made a political statement by their actions, or whether they were simply blinded by the trends of the times is something I'm not going to comment on.
But the queen is worthy of respect. Quite apart from the position she holds, the way this lady has lived her life has been generally exemplary, and even her years should engender respect.
ETS - 28, October, 2011 (8:32)

Lorikeet, your keyboard is stuck on uppercase and it looks like you are shouting at us. A blog moderator would know all about that. Maybe you don’t know it but you and the Queen are my favourite little old ladies. The Queen doesn’t seem to be upset about all this and neither should you. Calm down, chill out, relax, have another pill and a cup of tea and maybe a little nap. It is just a discussion topic and the sun will still rise tomorrow.

I never realised not curtseying to the Queen is really a tactic of the evil socialist left and the pagan Greens to turn Australia into a republic. It is such an obvious hidden agenda by those two wicked, wicked women who rule Australia and Queensland so thanks to all those clear thinking Australians and Queenslanders who saw through the total disrespect to find the truth about the non-curtsey. I didn’t even see anything remotely political or disrespectful about it.

I wonder if Prince Philip reads blogs. He is a senior you know so he would have the time to do it.
David Leihy - 28, October, 2011 (8:23)

I don't know why the british queen is even in Australia. She is an achronism and is irrelevant to us and the world at large. Bring on the Republic
Kay Kelly - 28, October, 2011 (8:08)

Col Harris:

I think it unwise to assume you know the voting preferences of the bloggers based on their comments on this topic. I guess you probably think I am a Labor/Greens supporter because I fully supported Julia Gillard on this matter? Think again! I am capable of judging individual topics on their merits.
Robert Cohen - 28, October, 2011 (8:03)

Whilst it is a old practice -- i do not see any problem with showing respect to the Queen. I was not surprised when our Socialist Left so called Prime Minister did not -- REALLY we do not have a Prime Minister in my eyes.
Col Harris - 28, October, 2011 (7:59)

They (Gillard and Bligh) did the right thing. According to protocol they are no longer required to curtesy to the Queen. Dirty politics all you LNP voters. You should remember who Tony Abbott curtesys to and it is not the Queen...someone in Rome me thinks.
Robbo - 28, October, 2011 (7:53)

First of all, a blog allows others to express various opinions on a particular subject. I am a traditionalist, curtseys are the protocal to the Queen who is recognised by Australia. Australia is not yet a Republic and in my opinion, correct protocols should have been complied by by both the Prime Minister Julia Gillard and QLD Permier Anna Bligh, they are also women and not men, for the ignorant, males do not curtsey. This is a sign that Australia is not willing to do things even simple things properly and of course, the rot always starts at the top. The attitudes of these two heads show contempt and certainly lack of respect to both queen and country. NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
Heather - 28, October, 2011 (7:52)

Each person should behave in a manner they are comfortable with otherwise it becomes a falsehood. There was no disrespect shown to the Queen by not courtseying, however had this been a ceremony steeped in history ie a knighthood then I would fully expect the correct protocol would have been observed.
Helen - 28, October, 2011 (7:45)

A bit more to add. When Albert married Wallace Simpson, the throne went to George and eventually to Elizabeth when her Father died. So I guess it was a chain of events that lead the path to this great Lady being on the throne. The Duke is her cousin as well, which was the way it usually was until recent times.

There a number who descent from Royalty, I think this would be a great discussion. Where are all the descendents these days from all the "Illegitament children" born to the kings and their mistresses. There were heaps, unfortunately, they were not able to accend the throne back then (or now).

This is a much better topic. Let's talk about Royalty and it's origins and give Politics the "boot" for a litle while...
Lorikeet - 28, October, 2011 (7:42)

AS USUAL, THE SAME NASTY BUNCH ARE CRITICISING THE MODERATOR'S CHOICE OF TOPIC, ABUSING OTHER BLOGGERS AND MAKING A GENERAL MOCKERY OF COMMON DECENCY.
Pam Alderson - 28, October, 2011 (7:38)

Even though it is considered acceptable, I feel it shows a lack of respect for women not to curtsey to Her Majesty. I would have been delighted to be in a position to do so. Nor should we see any need to become a republic. We create our own rules and regulations anyway.
Strawb - 28, October, 2011 (7:34)

I have huge respect for the Queen and believe that in the diplomatic arena there should be some form of mutual official courtly gesture shown by both men and women towards one another, whether royal or otherwise. However, the curtsey is a bit too fey for my liking... a bit too "let's all skip to grandmother's house".
Helen - 28, October, 2011 (7:33)

Spelling correction - "Throne" not "thrown" typo!...
Glenn - 28, October, 2011 (7:31)

I don't think it would have hurt to courtesy to the Queen. It takes less then 2 seconds to courtesy. Anyway what harm is there to show someone our respect especially when it is our Queen?
Brian Reid - 28, October, 2011 (7:31)

Being Scottish and don't receognise her as my Queen this curtsey is a thing of the past if you want to do it do it but as the premiers are just nodding their heads that is acceptable Australia should get their act together and become a Republic as what is scotland doing at the moment don't get me wrong she is a nice lady her mother was Scottish but the royal family is outdated what does she really do for Australia but cost us taxpayer's money
Helen - 28, October, 2011 (7:30)

What a stupid topic (sorry NSA), but it is!

Isn't there something a bit more important that we can discuss. It seems everyone has disappeared off topic already!

I gave my thoughts on this once before. Our PM was given a list of "protocols" to follow (and she did!).

Mr abbott didn't even bow his head and went traight into the political "spin" and according to those who witnessed it, didn't shut up until his time expired. The poor Queen must have been bored out of her brain by such rants.

Surely during her visit sour grapes can be put to one side albeit briefly..I personally love studing the royal family and always have.

When I was a little girl, I thought she was so beautiful and her golden coach and crown so fantastic.

My Dad, Grandfather and Great Grandfathers fought under our flag and one of my sons is a RAFFY as well, so I personally look on our flag as something really special.

I suppose in later years we will become a Republic. The Royals are huge O/S, even the European Royals and they grace the magazines every week. We only get to see the UK royals and the ones deemed the most important (+ Fred and Mary). The USA also love our Royals and are now a Repulic. Are they better off because of it? I think this answer is very obvious.

Interestinly, HRH Elizabeth is only Queen because of Queen Victoria and because the King at the time and his missus couldn't produce an Heir that lived. Victoria's Mother and Father were the Duke and Dutchess of Kent and not in direct line to the throne at that time.

Had she died as a child, the thrown would have gone to Europe. Victoria's childhood was quite horrible (and a great read)...
Nick Ward - 28, October, 2011 (7:29)

While I agree that the Queen is very dedicated and hard working, I think that, in this modern age, no person should have to bow or curtsey to anyone whether they be king, queen, pope or president.
Brian McGann - 28, October, 2011 (7:13)

What a lot of drivel. This shouldn't be a discussion at all. It's trivial, unimportant and unnecessary.
And Trevor Ridgeway is a very sarcastic, nasty man.
Kevin Coghlan - 28, October, 2011 (7:09)

Firstly I AM a Royalist. Enough of that. I too say that our esteemed PM AND Premier SHOULD have curtsied to Her Majesty. Politics aside, it IS the traditional and most proper thing to do. But I suppose one cannot expect the niceties from the ALP, can one?
June Jones - 28, October, 2011 (6:41)

I have already made my opinion known to the news papers and the ministers via twitter, on the disgrace of our PM and Premier. If they were in court, they would acknowledge the traditional courtesy to acknowledge the judge so why not the same for one above the courts. I can only assume that neither pray to God either as this would mean admitting a higher power.

June
Kay Kelly - 28, October, 2011 (6:35)

Lorikeet:

Congratulations! Always the first blogger and always consistent with your mangling of titles ("Slave Labor Party").

When I first saw this title, I thought how boring! How irrelevant! Who cares? But off we go again!

I support the comments of ETS, TFM, Robyn, and Bob B. I think curtseying is so yesteryear! Surely we are past this obsequious and subservient behaviour? Were I to meet the Queen, I would greet her in the same polite manner I would greet anyone else I met - no more, no less. I think Julia Gillard's approach was entirely appropriate. She sought advice, and then acted appropriately. A slight nod of the head and a handshake is all that's required, and she was true to herself in doing so.

I doubt the Queen has given one second's thought to how the various dignitaries greeted her. She received a very warm welcome. Given her age, it is no doubt her last visit here. Hopefully we will move to being a Republic in the not-too-distant future - as soon as we can work out a suitable framework. If we are not careful, Great Britain will be a Republic before we get our act together. I read many years ago that it was being discussed there. Given the popularity of the Queen, probably neither country will proceed down this path as long as she is alive. But such a move is inevitable in the long term.
Dr Diana J Hodgson - 28, October, 2011 (6:28)

I'm sure the correct protocol was followed by both leaders. After all, do male counterparts curtsy?
Ron Buttenshaw - 28, October, 2011 (6:13)

For God's sake let's get over this dribble. I think she is an amazing lady but let's face it, she is only a Queen because one of her forbears won a battle to assert their authority. If it had been one of ancestors that won the battle maybe I would be King or "Queen" depending on my sexual persuasion.
Bob - 28, October, 2011 (6:12)

Ask David Icke what he thinks.
Robyn - 28, October, 2011 (6:03)

Trevor,

You are thinking very laterally introducing the "cutsy". Sounds like fun! Could be done by men and women - no gender connotations in rolling around like an upside-down turtle. Also brings to mind subservience, so would be quite a fitting way for we Aussies to greet our British royals.
Tony - 28, October, 2011 (5:48)

Agrre entirely with Andy. Surely NSA has better things to publicise.
Robert Duncan - 28, October, 2011 (5:02)

Some might admire Prime Minister Gillard for her lack of curtsy and view it as taking a stand(pardon the pun) against the outdated obsequiousness and the subservient attitudes of yesteryear.
Others might view the lack of basic manners and complete dismissal of accepted decorum as a bit bogan-ish.
As no other Australian prime minister has ever deigned to curtsy perhaps she was just sticking to tradition.
Trevor Ridgway - 28, October, 2011 (3:19)

I like "traditions" & it has been traditional for men to bow & women to curtesy as a sign of respect. ( a courtesy )

That our PM chose to bow still showed respect.

Given the PM's unfortunate physical shape & her propensity to 'muck-up' almost everything she attempts it was probably wise NOT to attempt a cutsey. The vision of our PM overbalancing & rolling around on the deck like a turtle on its back would be have been so embarrassing for us all !

Anna Bligh would probably have fared better although she is more believable & more at home when surrounded by floodwaters , & I think there have been enough of those for a little while !
Andy - 28, October, 2011 (1:57)

What a load of crock I can't believe people actually get wound up with this stuff. Who actually cares whether its a handshake bow or heaven forbid a curtsy, if that's what makes you feel good, so be it, as for this carry on most of you should get a life, then again perhaps this is your life. Sadly if this is the case this country is in a sorry state. I don't often read this stuff but if this is the best you can do heaven help us. If this is an example of what we are and how we think, what hope is there for our future generations.
After reading this diatribe I am ashamed to be a senior of Australia, there are more important matters to concern ourselves with.
Gareth - 27, October, 2011 (23:28)

I am not too sure what the problem is. I can't see how there has been any disrespect to the Queen. She was greeted in a courteous and friendly way, and made to feel most welcome. I am sure the Queen has not given the matter a second thought.
Allen Hands - 27, October, 2011 (23:19)

The young people of Australia put our so called Leaders to shame. Look at all the small girls that new how to curtsie and they showed more respect to the Crown that Gillard & Bligh.
Well done to our young girls
Lorikeet - 27, October, 2011 (20:31)

Here is an interesting link on the Perth Meeting of CHOGM (Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting).

http://www.dfat.gov.au/intorgs/commonwealth/index.html

Tonight on the news, a commentator was expressing concerns about moves afoot to disband the Commonwealth of Nations.

This would be in keeping with the United Nations plan to divide the globe into Economic Unions or world sectors, rather than other types of groupings.

I am not in favour of forming new alliances that take away our independence or national sovereignty, our status as a western/developed nation or as a Commonwealth country. I also don't wish to see further damage done to our economy, or the redistribution of wealth using undemocratic processes.

When people show respect for our Queen, it certainly has the net effect of teaching younger people, especially children, to respect their elders. In a seniors' organisation, I think this should be highly valued.

I think the Queen is also a good model of respectability and clean living.
ETS - 27, October, 2011 (20:22)

Going off at a lateral tangent, NSA recently sent Julia Gillard an NSA application form on her 50th birthday. It was a very nice thought and I hope she joins.

Surely we should take advantage of this great opportunity and send application forms to the Queen and Prince Phil, both well into their seniors years.

It would be great to have them as members, possibly joining the blog discussion and contributing to our fun. I can't imagine their applications would be rejected. Just think - the Royal National Seniors Association. It has a nice ring.

I would even be happy to help pay for their first year membership fee if money is aproblem (assuming the NSA still takes cash).
ETS - 27, October, 2011 (20:15)

Does anybody have experience greeting members of other royal families.

I assume we would be expected to bow or curtsey to the Emperor of Japan, but bowing is more of an everyday thing in Japan so the Emperor possibly does not get special attention unless the bow is lower and longer.

The Thai royal family is revered and saying or writing certain things about them can get you into hot water (maybe you were thinking of Thailand Arthur?). I imagine bowing or curtseying would be expected in Thailand but I don’t know that protocol would apply if Thai royals came to Australia.

Robyn noted the Danish royals are less formal so bowing or curtseying would be overdoing it. Then we have the Dutch royals who seem to blend into their society quite well and often get about on bicycles. Bowing and curtseying hardly seems appropriate in that society but I imagine a short nod of the head would not be taken badly.

Then we come to the second tier royals and I have to wonder where we draw the line. I can’t imagine the Queen of Tonga (if she is still around) would require a curtsey. Then what about deposed royalty? I believe we have a descendent of the Romanovs gracing the Melbourne Cup next week. Surely any of us fortunate enough to meet this royal would not have to worry about bowing or curtseying. The same would go for the Greek royal family (sorry to bring that up Prince Philip, but they are ex-ers). The list goes on… and on, so many royals, so few commoners.

Bottom line for me is to be respectful of the person and the office they hold. I can’t imagine any of our political leaders from any party not showing an appropriate level of respect to a visiting dignitary. We should not expect anything less and I don’t believe we should ask for anything more.
Bob B - 27, October, 2011 (19:24)

I really feel like letting loose but will contain myself. I think what we are seeing is one person who had comment removed from the prior topic trying to demonstrate that others are the problem and not her. Give me a break from this childish approach!!!!!

Its a topic that can move laterally quite nicely as we have already seen into meaningful discussion.
Robyn - 27, October, 2011 (18:38)

Moderator,

This one is shaping up to be a can of worms isn't it? Bet you thought it was a nice safe topic!
robyn - 27, October, 2011 (18:33)

Ps. Manners and decorum are not your forte Lorikeet! Screaming to the moderator about a lack of same in other bloggers (toward the queen) is laughable!
Lorikeet - 27, October, 2011 (18:26)

PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE OCCURRING.
Robyn - 27, October, 2011 (18:21)

Oh Lorikeet. How olden day you are! Arthur Mac too.

This is a stupid topic. Who cares, really, if the queen is curtsied to or not. It is about time the royal family of GB got with the age we are living in. Do people curtsey to Danish monarchy? I don't think it is required.

I also support an Australian republic.
ETS - 27, October, 2011 (18:19)

With respect Lorikeet, if you did not try to mislead people with your messages you might not get so many critical responses. It would also help to acknowledge errors as others do, not deny making them.

Arthur, yet again you intrigue me with your comments. Please show me where I criticised Her Maj or showed the slightest disrespect. I don't believe I did anything like that at all.

Our future system of government is a matter for Australians to determine. Whatever the outcome, change or no change, really has nothing to do with the Queen and I seriously doubt it would cause any problem with other members of the Commonwealth of Nations (it isn't the British Commonwealth any more Arthur).

Australia can remain a member of the Commonwealth of Nations while at the same time seeking closer multilateral regional ties. We are doing that already and there is no inconsistency or an "either/or" situation.

This is not a difficult concept to understand.
Lorikeet - 27, October, 2011 (17:40)

THE MODERATOR ALREADY NEEDS TO REMOVE ABUSIVE COMMENTS FROM THIS BLOG TOPIC.

As usual, we already have abusive and immature comments being made by Greens. Protocol is about manners and decorum, which doesn't seem to interest them.

There is quite a big difference between a conspiracy theory and Kevin Rudd's very clearly advertised plan to make a pact with Asia.
Bob B - 27, October, 2011 (17:04)

To me this is a non issue. As long as normal human respect is shown that is all that matters. Nod or curtsey is an old custom/ritual and these change with time. It seems most acknowledge this, as well as showing normal courtesy between people. We have no truk with the Queen to suggest this be otherwise.

I support an Australian Republic that is a member of the Commonwealth of Nations. Its time we stood tall as Australians in fact as well as current impressions.

A regional economic arrangement is a good idea to. How it is set up and arranged is a more important consideration than assuming we default to doom and gloom for even thinking about it. We are in control of this ourselves and should act as such.
Robyn - 27, October, 2011 (16:56)

I think it was disgusting that Tony Abbott didn't curtsey to the Queen, Her Majesty, Elizabeth of Great Britain. He should be ashamed of himself! We underlings in Oz will never recover from this travesty. Can't bear to think of how badly this will go down over there in our dear motherland.
TFM - 27, October, 2011 (15:59)

I thought by now Austalia, as an educated country, would be over such pathetic pandering to an antiquated idea such as the monarchy. What do they do for our country that we can't do for ourselves? The quicker we wise up and start looking inwards at ourselves rather than looking up to our so called big brother/sister the better! They are no better or worse than us. And how much money did it cost us during this time of financial hardship for a lot of our country to provide security etc. We could be giving this money to mush more deserving causes like hospitals, schools or dare I say it pensions!
Arthur Mac - 27, October, 2011 (15:43)

ETS you should be ashamed of yourself for criticising Her Majesty Queen Elisabeth II like that. The Queen is a visitor in our country and it is very rude not to show respect and then asking does anybody really care. You think it is not a big issue but it could affect our relations with the rest of the British Commonwealth. I’m sure in the old days it was illegal to criticise The Queen but these days you can get away with anything.

Most people love The Queen. They want to stay in the British Commonwealth and they don’t want to change the flag.
ETS - 27, October, 2011 (15:28)

Didn't take name-calling Lorikeet long to weave a curtsey to the Queen into her conspiracy theories.

But if we are going to meander into a republic discussion from the very first message Lorikeet, at least have the integrity not to mislead readers. Should Australia ever become a republic, it can remain a member of the Commonwealth of Nations. They are not mutually exclusive as I am sure you know.

The recent Commonwealth Games were held in the republic of India. A couple of topics ago the Republic of Singapore was the centre of discussion. The Republic of South Africa is also a member of the Commonwealth of Nations. These are called facts Lorikeet, you should aquaint yourself with them.

I haven't counted but I would guess that there are more republics in the Commonwealth of Nations than there are constitutional monarchies.
ETS - 27, October, 2011 (15:19)

Gee, I can see this topic lasting for a week. Does our Moderator not listen to us? Dieter suggested a much more sensible and relevant topic a few days ago. I would refer readers to it but all the comments have been scrubbed as usual.

Anyway, we have this momentous issue to consider. Does anybody really care? Apparently the Queen does not bother with such trivia as we are told that curtseys or nods are both acceptable. As long as it is respectful, what does it matter? On an equality issue, men don’t curtsey, but perhaps they should. The Prime Minister and the Premier of Queensland did nothing at all disrespectful when they met the Queen, nor did the Opposition Leader either and there was no question of him curtseying.

June Dally-Watkins is entitled to her opinion, but I suggest it says more about her antiquated attitudes to protocol than it does about actual respect.

No doubt I will have more to say before this issue meanders…
Lorikeet - 27, October, 2011 (15:18)

I think Anna Bligh and Julia Gillard should have curtsied to the Queen. I saw other dignitaries show their respect in this way.

As it was, the general public had to set their own example, which they did quite admirably. I was really pleased by the excellent turnout here in Brisbane, with lots of children giving bouquets and drawings to Her Majesty, and very eager to shake her hand.

I can only conclude that the Slave Labor Party wants the country run as a Republic, as a precursor to forming an Asia/Pacific Economic Union.

I prefer to continue to belong to the Commonwealth of Nations and all that entails, not to switch to the China-poverty of Nations.

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Comments (255)

ETS - 3, November, 2011 (14:04)

Laurakeet - 3, November, 2011 (10:41)

Laurakeet - 3, November, 2011 (10:38)

Lorikeet - 3, November, 2011 (9:52)

Laurakeet - 3, November, 2011 (8:29)

Lorikeet - 2, November, 2011 (20:32)

Bob B - 2, November, 2011 (19:27)

Bob B - 2, November, 2011 (19:22)

ETS - 2, November, 2011 (19:19)

Lorikeet - 2, November, 2011 (17:24)

WEG - 2, November, 2011 (16:53)

Bob B - 2, November, 2011 (16:09)

Brian Storm - 2, November, 2011 (15:45)

ETS - 2, November, 2011 (15:02)

WEG - 2, November, 2011 (14:51)

ETS - 2, November, 2011 (13:28)

WEG - 2, November, 2011 (13:25)

ETS - 2, November, 2011 (13:11)

WEG - 2, November, 2011 (12:52)

ETS - 2, November, 2011 (12:50)

Laurakeet - 2, November, 2011 (12:44)

ETS - 2, November, 2011 (12:27)

ETS - 2, November, 2011 (12:26)

Lorikeet - 2, November, 2011 (12:25)

Lorikeet - 2, November, 2011 (12:14)

WEG - 2, November, 2011 (11:55)

Parakeet - 2, November, 2011 (10:12)

Parakeet - 2, November, 2011 (9:10)

Laurakeet - 2, November, 2011 (8:55)

Lorikeet - 2, November, 2011 (8:54)

Lorikeet - 2, November, 2011 (8:51)

Laurakeet - 2, November, 2011 (8:36)

Parakeet - 2, November, 2011 (7:45)

Lorikeet - 2, November, 2011 (7:30)

Lorikeet - 2, November, 2011 (7:28)

Parakeet - 2, November, 2011 (7:13)

Lorikeet - 1, November, 2011 (21:09)

Laurakeet - 1, November, 2011 (18:41)

Lorikeet - 1, November, 2011 (18:35)

ETS - 1, November, 2011 (16:08)

Bob B - 1, November, 2011 (15:13)

Bob B - 1, November, 2011 (15:09)

ETS - 1, November, 2011 (13:04)

Lorikeet - 1, November, 2011 (12:49)

ETS - 1, November, 2011 (12:49)

Bob B - 1, November, 2011 (8:52)

Kay Kelly - 1, November, 2011 (7:07)

Richard - 31, October, 2011 (21:43)

Lorikeet - 31, October, 2011 (19:37)

ETS - 31, October, 2011 (17:13)

Lorikeet - 31, October, 2011 (16:51)

Bob B - 31, October, 2011 (15:51)

Kay Kelly - 31, October, 2011 (15:46)

Lorikeet - 31, October, 2011 (15:43)

Robyn - 31, October, 2011 (14:56)

ETS - 31, October, 2011 (14:40)

ETS - 31, October, 2011 (14:38)

Kay Kelly - 31, October, 2011 (14:35)

Helen - 31, October, 2011 (14:11)

Bob B - 31, October, 2011 (13:33)

Queen Robyn - 31, October, 2011 (13:12)

Queen Robyn - 31, October, 2011 (13:09)

Bob B - 31, October, 2011 (11:11)

Helen - 31, October, 2011 (10:15)

Lorikeet - 31, October, 2011 (10:02)

Laurakeet - 31, October, 2011 (8:44)

Kay Kelly - 31, October, 2011 (8:25)

Lorikeet - 31, October, 2011 (8:06)

Helen - 31, October, 2011 (7:27)

Lorikeet - 30, October, 2011 (20:57)

Queen Robyn - 30, October, 2011 (19:30)

Lorikeet - 30, October, 2011 (18:53)

WEG - 30, October, 2011 (18:49)

King Bob - 30, October, 2011 (18:21)

Queen Robyn - 30, October, 2011 (18:11)

Queen Robyn - 30, October, 2011 (18:07)